How to tell 6 y.o. DD no?

[ha98ed14]

ETA: I realized I did not explain that I am out of work as of February, and I haven't found something else yet.

I'm not talking about little things- I have told DD no to lots of things she's asked for in line at the store, or when she asks to go out to eat when we have food at home. This is different in my mind.

DD wants to go to 2 weeks of art day camp ($300/week). Her birthday is at the end of May and she is expecting a new bike (we promised her at Christmas b/c she did not get it then.) She also wants a party, which I have always enjoyed planning and gone a little overboard on in the past, so she is "used to" a big deal party. We also have to take all 3 of us from LAX to MSP for my cousin's wedding this summer. DD is in the wedding, so there are those costs plus the travel, hotel, car rental. I am just seeing these costs add up and I am freaking out. I just paid my property taxes and owe on my income taxes. I am not working right now and I can easily see us running through savings if we do all these things.

I haven't been in this place-- really worried about money--since I started working 4 years ago. DD doesn't remember when it was tight. I feel guilty telling DD no to the things she wants, but I can't keep this up until I find another job. (FWIW, if you followed my previous saga about my aunt's dog, I found a rescue that said they would take him amd passed the info to my aunt. When I took my heart out of the matter, my head was clear that I did not wantnto be liable for the added costs of a dog. We would have had to board him while we were gone, etc.)

So I guess my question is, how do you explain a loss of income to a kid, and that they will now not be getting everything they wanted? Can I ask DD to choose between the art camp and the birthday party?

[Kindra178]

I'm not talking about little things- I have told DD no to lots of things she's asked for in line at the store, or when she asks to go out to eat when we have food at home. This is different in my mind.

DD wants to go to 2 weeks of art day camp ($300/week). Her birthday is at the end of May and she is expecting a new bike (we promised her at Christmas b/c she did not get it then.) She also wants a party, which I have always enjoyed planning and gone a little overboard on in the past, so she is "used to" a big deal party. We also have to take all 3 of us from LAX to MSP for my cousin's wedding this summer. DD is in the wedding, so there are those costs plus the travel, hotel, car rental. I am just seeing these costs add up and I am freaking out. I just paid my property taxes and owe on my income taxes. I am not working right now and I can easily see us running through savings if we do all these things.

I haven't been in this place-- really worried about miney--since I started working 4 years ago. DD doesn't remember when it was tight. I feel guilty telling DD no to the things she wants, but I can't keep this up until I find another job. (FWIW, if you followed my previous saga about my aunts dog, I found a rescue that said they would take him amd passed the info to my aunt. When I took my heart out of the matter, my head was clear that I did not wantnto be liable for the added costs of a dog. We would have had to board him while we were gone, etc.)

So I guess my question is, how do you explain a loss of income to a kid, and that they will now not be getting everything they wanted? Can I ask DD to choose between the art camp and the birthday party?

Of course! In fact, imo, the art camp would be such a better experience than the birthday party. Why even present it as an option? I see no reason not to use this a teaching moment how money is a finite resource and you have order your choices accordingly. Camp and bike should be the priorities.

[Gracemom]

We have been in a difficult financial situation before due to a layoff. It's hard when many other families around you have more than enough. I would still find a way to do the bike and b-day party, just on a different scale. Craigslist or resale stores have amazing deals on bikes. Do you have some old kid clothes, shoes and toys to resale? Use that to get a bike. Our resale gives you more if you take store credit, which you could use on the bike. For the b-day, you can have a great party for next to nothing at home or at a park. At 6, they are still young enough to be entertained by simple games and homemade cake and ice cream. Camps are so expensive! Is there a cheaper alternative through the school district or city rec center?

[123LuckyMom]

Of course! In fact, imo, the art camp would be such a better experience than the birthday party. Why even present it as an option? I see no reason not to use this a teaching moment how money is a finite resource and you have order your choices accordingly. Camp and bike should be the priorities.

I agree. You aren't depriving her. You are teaching her about what all grownups have to do, which is make choices. It's an important lesson for her to learn.

[TwinFoxes]

Of course! In fact, imo, the art camp would be such a better experience than the birthday party. Why even present it as an option? I see no reason not to use this a teaching moment how money is a finite resource and you have order your choices accordingly. Camp and bike should be the priorities.

:yeahthat:

[squimp]

I talk to my 10-yo-DD about money a lot. Have done so for many years. We talk about the costs of different things, and how we use that information to make choices. I think it's important for kids to have a sense that money is finite and that we all have to make choices.

I would never choose for her, I would involve her in the decision. My DD would pick the party, hands down, but she is all about the party. I know many families who would choose the other way. I don't see the wedding as part of the discussion with her, because that is a grownup choice you have already made.

[Simon]

I would absolutely let her pick between a bike, art camp, and a big birthday party. We ask Ds1 for input on those kinds of decisions all the time. Sometimes he hears no because it costs more than we can afford, sometimes its just more than I think something is worth. You seem to have lots of options:
-less expensive bicycle, second hand?
-one week of art camp vs. 2 weeks vs. no weeks
-large party vs. one friend over for a special dinner or one friend to movie and dinner out?

Personally, I'd present my Ds1 with the fact that we can't do it all and lay out several options. I would say that personally, I'd vote for camp vs party because its 2 weeks vs. 1 day but I know he may feel differently. I'd probably offer 1 week of camp vs. the big party and, if feasible, barter the second week of camp for a less expensive bike or just say that 2 weeks is not possible this summer and ask her to pick one. I would also let her ask for $$ towards summer camp from family for a b-day present.

[vonfirmath]

We have been in a difficult financial situation before due to a layoff. It's hard when many other families around you have more than enough. I would still find a way to do the bike and b-day party, just on a different scale. Craigslist or resale stores have amazing deals on bikes. Do you have some old kid clothes, shoes and toys to resale? Use that to get a bike. Our resale gives you more if you take store credit, which you could use on the bike. For the b-day, you can have a great party for next to nothing at home or at a park. At 6, they are still young enough to be entertained by simple games and homemade cake and ice cream. Camps are so expensive! Is there a cheaper alternative through the school district or city rec center?

My 6 year old has a bike that was purchased on Craigslist (Warning though: Do check into new prices. If it has to be refurbished at a bike shop it may end up being cheaper to buy new anyway!)

And doesn't get a party every year. Last year we went to Texas Roadhouse for his party. I'm trying hard to make one work this year.

[Momit]

A friend of mine got tired of doing big parties for her kids and started offering them the choice between a party or $50. They take the 50 bucks every time and everyone is happy. :)

I agree with PPs - there is nothing wrong with telling your kids you do not have infinite resources. You can choose for her and send her to camp, or let her choose between camp and the party (or party and bike, whatever combination).

[zag95]

Here are my thoughts on your situation:

I agree with many of the PP regarding giving your dd choices

Birthday party- smaller, scaled down affair? Ideas could be: mani or pedi with a couple of friends, along with lunch or dinner? You could do them at the beauty school, if there is one in your area. Another idea might be to have a small party at home- with just cake and ice cream- and keep it really simple.

Bike: we bought DD's current bike at a community bike place that does rehabbing of bikes- it was used, but in great shape, and more importantly, it fits her well. I think we spent about $100 plus training wheels- this was a Trek bike and much nicer than the stuff we were finding at TRU.
Art camp- agree with rec or community center idea- or maybe there is something via your local groupon or living social? What about a few days of different things- like ceramic cafe type place where she can paint something or design a tile/plate/cup? Might be less expensive- this might also be a great idea for a smaller birthday, which could combine art and party......

HTH. I can relate- DD age 6, really wants to go to zoo camp in July. It is 260 for a week. We are zoo members, but that is the discounted price. I am a substitute teacher, but do not get paychecks in the summer- and DH's check covers most of our needs- but my check is for "extra's"- vacations, activities, etc. I told DD that zoo camp was pretty expensive, and not really in the budget. But that we would do swim, and possibly something new and fun (like maybe a couple of horseback riding lessons via groupon) along with ballet intro class that is offered at our dance studio. I mentioned to DD that swim, dance and horseback riding all together are way cheaper, than 1 week of zoo camp- and that we have to make choices on how we spend our money. She was totally fine with it.

[westwoodmom04]

I think it's good to do regardless of what you can afford. As my kids have gotten older, I have started giving them budgets for things like Halloween, birthday presents, and parties and letting them make choices within those parameters. I think it's important for them to realize the value of money and how much things really cost.

[AnnieW625]

You just have to tell her no that you don't have the money for it. I tell my kids that all of the time. I don't sugar coat it I just say no.

I do like the idea of art camp, bike or birthday for the 8+ set, but any younger and I think they don't really get it as they still want everything. Ot does get easier as they get older though.

Good luck!

[Melaine]

Absolutely I think it is ok to tell her that you can't afford it. Actually, I think you are doing her a favor by teaching her this before she gets much older. My friends who were raised with more money had to go through various life experiences to understand the value of work. I learned it naturally through my parents not having a lot of money.

[maestramommy]

I think 6yo is old enough to understand the basics. We tell our kids all the time that they have to choose between things (sometimes big things) because we can't afford all of them, or just because all of them is too expensive. I understand if you've not had to have this conversation with her before it will be hard for you as the parent (guilt), but I think kids do understand, as long as you keep the explanation simple. Mommy is not working anymore, so we have less money to spend, so now we have to be choosy.

[TxCat]

Of course! In fact, imo, the art camp would be such a better experience than the birthday party. Why even present it as an option? I see no reason not to use this a teaching moment how money is a finite resource and you have order your choices accordingly. Camp and bike should be the priorities.

:yeahthat:

Honestly, we have already started having these conversations with our 3 1/2 year old. I know she doesn't "get it" completely yet, but I see zero reason not to start laying the groundwork now. It came about when she started asking why DH and I have to go to work, and in answering her we've been very matter-of-fact about how you earn money by working, and then where all of that money goes. I would definitely use this as a teachable moment about budgeting and priorities.

[lalasmama]

Hugs. It can be tough to figure out how to talk to kids about money, no matter their age or your financial situation!

In our case, DD doesn't remember when money was really tight--when we were eating cereal from our WIC subsidy for dinner, or "splurging" on a $5 pizza from Little Caesar's because at least then she "thinks" we're eating out, and making it last 2-3 meals, or finding food boxes on our door from our church. Thankfully she was pretty young when that was happening.

Now, money isn't tight at all. We have a dual-income family, we have a large house, we have 2 nice cars, etc. DD's always been a "gimme" kind of kid--her love languages are, by far, physical touch and gifts. So, long ago, I started pointing out what things cost, and how many days of work that is... It's not uncommon for her to say, "I want to go to the trampoline park camp," and we would reply, "Wow, that sounds cool! But its $350 for one week. That would be 100 times of going to the pool, or enough to buy 3 Kindles, or enough to drive all the way to see Aunt Suzie, stay in a motel for the night, and go to the zoo with them. That would be me having to work for x days, without spending any money for anything else, for that $350. What do you think would be the best way to spend that kind of money?" Often, when hearing how much it takes to earn that money, or different things that could be done with that same amount of money, she will realize that there's better ways to spend the money (and often will ask for something a lot cheaper, like taking part in the free swimming lessons that happen the week of spring break locally).

[MontrealMum]

I think it's good to do regardless of what you can afford. As my kids have gotten older, I have started giving them budgets for things like Halloween, birthday presents, and parties and letting them make choices within those parameters. I think it's important for them to realize the value of money and how much things really cost.


Absolutely I think it is ok to tell her that you can't afford it. Actually, I think you are doing her a favor by teaching her this before she gets much older. My friends who were raised with more money had to go through various life experiences to understand the value of work.
:yeahthat:

[niccig]

I agree with talking about how much things cost and whether you can afford it or not. Sit her down, explain that with you not working the budget is going to be tighter for some things. We've done this with DS.

I also agree with cutting back on things to show her that you can have a fun time and spend less money. Best eg. of that is her birthday party. Scale it back, 2 or 3 friends. Starting at that age many people have smaller parties, or we do 1 every other year and the off year is us doing something as a family. I started it to take pressure off from a party every year. Last year it was a party year and DS had 4 boys over for sleep over. Pizza, cupcakes I made, pancakes the next day - it was the cheapest party and DS loved it. She could have a faux-sleep over if 6 is too young for sleep overs (DS started around 8). She can invite a few girls, do some crafts, pizza for dinner, cupcakes, get into pjs, watch movie with popcorn and get picked up by parents around 9pm. Still gets a birthday party, but it's more low key, less cost and effort for you, and to be honest, I think it's more fun than a huge big bash.

Same with the bike - stalk craigslist. If I knew she would go for a blue bike, I have one in my garage that would work. I've listed it on CL with no takers, but keep an eye out and you can find a good girls bike for less than new.

Art camp - would 1 week be in the budget?

[brittone2]

Ditto on CL for bikes. We've purchased Treks, Giants, and other quality brands. DD had a Trek bike from Salvation Army that we picked up for 19.00 in excellent condition. I resold on CL for twice that a yr or two later. DH does our bike maintenance since he's a cyclist, so he did tune it up, but there are deals out there if you are patience.

[123LuckyMom]

Ditto on CL for bikes. We've purchased Treks, Giants, and other quality brands. DD had a Trek bike from Salvation Army that we picked up for 19.00 in excellent condition. I resold on CL for twice that a yr or two later. DH does our bike maintenance since he's a cyclist, so he did tune it up, but there are deals out there if you are patience.

Definitely!!! We never buy new bikes, not even for us, and we're avid recreational cyclists. You can get great deals on CL. Also, check with your local bike stores/outside outfitters. Often they sell their rental bikes for peanuts, and they are always in excellent shape, because they've been meticulously maintained.

[BunnyBee]

I don't say, "We can't afford it" because I don't want DC worrying about us having the basics covered, ever. I had to do that as a child and it sucked. Granted, we are in a very different financial position and can afford it but choose to budget our money in different ways. I usually say, "Well, we have $X budgeted for entertainment this year..." maybe or maybe not giving the exact dollar amount, depending on the situation. The lesson that dollars are a finite resource is an important one to learn!

[ha98ed14]

I agree with talking about how much things cost and whether you can afford it or not. Sit her down, explain that with you not working the budget is going to be tighter for some things. We've done this with DS.

I also agree with cutting back on things to show her that you can have a fun time and spend less money. Best eg. of that is her birthday party. Scale it back, 2 or 3 friends. Starting at that age many people have smaller parties, or we do 1 every other year and the off year is us doing something as a family. I started it to take pressure off from a party every year. Last year it was a party year and DS had 4 boys over for sleep over. Pizza, cupcakes I made, pancakes the next day - it was the cheapest party and DS loved it. She could have a faux-sleep over if 6 is too young for sleep overs (DS started around 8). She can invite a few girls, do some crafts, pizza for dinner, cupcakes, get into pjs, watch movie with popcorn and get picked up by parents around 9pm. Still gets a birthday party, but it's more low key, less cost and effort for you, and to be honest, I think it's more fun than a huge big bash.

Same with the bike - stalk craigslist. If I knew she would go for a blue bike, I have one in my garage that would work. I've listed it on CL with no takers, but keep an eye out and you can find a good girls bike for less than new.

Art camp - would 1 week be in the budget?

Thanks All for the input. I had a talk with DH and we agreed on used bike (Electrka Hawaii is all the rage here and there are ton on CL for $100.) He suggested taking her cousins to the SD Safari park on DD's actual bday instead of a party. We have passes and free tickets, so no cost.

Nicci, your suggest for almost-a-sleepover is awesome! I will run that by DH and see. I could even invite moms to have a moms-night-in and hang out if they wanted. Even numbers are best, so I will offer to invite 3 friends. That's about the number of people I can fit in my house anyway. Maybe things will be okay and she won't feel like something is lacking. I asked MIL for money for camp in place of a bday gift, and she gave me $100 towards the cost. It's a 2 week program, so this helps. We also decided to skip swimming lessons for the summer and just do the open lap swim for kids, which is 1/3 the cost of lessons. We will be gone for 2 weeks this summer, so it makes sense. Why pay for lessons you won't be there to use?

I still need to find a natural way to start a conversation about shifting priorities because I'm not working. I'm glad we use public school, and she has a ton of clothes and toys I bought when I was working, so her world will not be shifting that much. She peobably won't notice much except for the not going out to eat as much. Neither of us like to cook, so when she asked, it was an easy "yes" because we like it, too. Belt tightening isn't fun, but it's necessary right now!

[niccig]

I still need to find a natural way to start a conversation about shifting priorities because I'm not working.

You may find you'll need to have little reminders as you go. I do that with DS. We have passes to universal that got with pay a day and get a whole year before DH went freelance. DS had Monday off, I'm on Spring Break, so I took him for half a day, but told him he could only use allowance money in the gift shop and that I would not be buying him anything. I deliberately went after lunch so didn't need to buy food - I bought him dippin dots + parking and that was it. If they know ahead of time what to expect, it's easier than when on the spot.

[sste]

If it makes you feel less angst/guilty, I don't think the issue is strictly how much money do you the parents have but how much money will your kids have in the future. While anything is possible I think it is quite likely that our kids will earn less than us -- based on my son's current interests which include the "abilities of ancient peoples" and natural history, I would suspect by a lot!! I worry all the time we are getting him accustomed to a lifestyle he won't be able to maintain and as we all know downward mobility is hard. We have made some voluntary decisions to reduce our vacation spending and also we spent much less on a house than most of our coworkers because we want the kids to have a solid middle class frame of reference (and it was in our beloved school district :) ). While generally I agree about talking to kids about money we are dealing with childhood anxiety and I almost never mention money because I KNOW the path it would lead down with DS immediately asking about our finances, our money now, our security of money in the future, will we have food, what if he doesn't have money as a grown up, etc, etc. I have tried more generally to talk about how we don't want to give money too much power over us and when we act like "buyaholics" we are doing that, we aren't in control anymore. HTH. I think every parent struggles with this issue in different ways.