So what I happens if I don't return the pictures AND I don't pay?

[wellyes]

Class photos came, UNORDERED, with a note saying I should pay or return the pictures ..... to be thrown away, I guess.
I don't really like the photos but I absolutely despise this sales technique.
Very tempted to just do nothing at all, to discourage them from doing it again next year.

So parents who've been through this before - what happens?
And parents who are in PTO - would I be causing a big headache for my school or PTO if I refuse to participate?
I am irritated with the company, but I don't want to cause problems for the school.

[SnuggleBuggles]

To answer your question, I don't know. We always returned them.

We fought the school tooth and nail about this tactic and they switched to a different photographer. I would return them then, instead of just being a squeaky wheel to the PTO, research some valid alternatives that the school could use in the future.

YOu won't succeed in getting the photographer to stop doing it. It works for them. YOur best bet is to switch to someone else. The big company (Lifetouch, in our case) promised not to send the stuff home after the first uproar but they did it again anyway.

[o_mom]

To answer your question, I don't know. We always returned them.

We fought the school tooth and nail about this tactic and they switched to a different photographer. I would return them then, instead of just being a squeaky wheel to the PTO, research some valid alternatives that the school could use in the future.

YOu won't succeed in getting the photographer to stop doing it. It works for them. YOur best bet is to switch to someone else. The big company (Lifetouch, in our case) promised not to send the stuff home after the first uproar but they did it again anyway.

Our School/PTO was able to get Lifetouch to stop doing this. They also now only do the spring photos for parents who order (everyone is done in the fall for the yearbook). It will take the school/PTO being committed, but it can be done. A big part of it was the 'green' aspect of it. Our school is very committed to recycling, reuse and lowering the environmental impact, so clearly sending home pictures was not in line with that.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I do have doubts that the administrator in charge of hiring them really told us the truth about the promise not to send the stuff home. For all I know, she never talked to them. Or, maybe my chronology is off and they did stop sending it home. Anyway, we love the new vendor a million times more!

[Dream]

Oh dear, I just remember when I saw this post, I didn't return mine. I did order a single 8x10 online which we already received but I just forgot. And today is the last day of school.

[carolinacool]

Our day care used Lifetouch the first year DS was there. It didn't really bother me too much because we ended up buying the package - we're suckers.

But then they switched to Teddy Bear(??), which bugs me more. They don't send the pictures homes, but you have to stand around to see them. You pick what you want to take home, but it's still a whole stack of photos that end up getting tossed. And they are much more expensive than Lifetouch.

Are there any day care/preschool photogs that just send home proofs, then you can order, or is that very 1980s...

[sariana]

To answer your question, I don't know. We always returned them.

We fought the school tooth and nail about this tactic and they switched to a different photographer. I would return them then, instead of just being a squeaky wheel to the PTO, research some valid alternatives that the school could use in the future.

YOu won't succeed in getting the photographer to stop doing it. It works for them. YOur best bet is to switch to someone else. The big company (Lifetouch, in our case) promised not to send the stuff home after the first uproar but they did it again anyway.

I agree with this advice. If you don't like a company, find another one.

The pictures are not free samples. If you keep them without paying for them, you are a thief. Two wrongs (the company's business tactics + your keeping the photos) do not make a right. Just return them and take your complaint to the administration, PTO, or whoever makes these arrangements.

[wellyes]

To answer your question, I don't know. We always returned them.

We fought the school tooth and nail about this tactic and they switched to a different photographer. I would return them then, instead of just being a squeaky wheel to the PTO, research some valid alternatives that the school could use in the future.

YOu won't succeed in getting the photographer to stop doing it. It works for them. YOur best bet is to switch to someone else. The big company (Lifetouch, in our case) promised not to send the stuff home after the first uproar but they did it again anyway.

It's an unusual situation, this is a Kindergarten only school. I can't change things going forward- or, I could, but it won't impact me. For me, I can only decide what to do this year.

[kep]

Does this fall under the whole unsolicitated goods being sent therefore not being legally obligated to pay? I hate Lifetouch too. Although, the quality of school photos IS much better than it was when I was a kid in the 80's.

[123LuckyMom]

In my experience, this is the norm for private school pictures. In DS's preschool, they give you the photos, and you either return them or send in a check. We usually return some, because we order more than they give us but different sizes. Ours are distributed through the school, though, so I suppose if you knew you didn't want any you could just tell the school not to give them to you (or your child). You could also call the company ahead of time and tell them not to send them if they send them directly to you.

I wouldn't keep the pictures if you're not going to pay for them, though. Is it really that big a deal just to return them? I guess it didn't occur to me to be bothered by this setup.

[janine]

Our school (very small church based preschool and K) sends us a note beforehand and asks us to submit paperwork and check if we want photos and what to do (ie nothing) if we do not.

I think there is some onus on the school to administer this properly.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Our day care used Lifetouch the first year DS was there. It didn't really bother me too much because we ended up buying the package - we're suckers.

But then they switched to Teddy Bear(??), which bugs me more. They don't send the pictures homes, but you have to stand around to see them. You pick what you want to take home, but it's still a whole stack of photos that end up getting tossed. And they are much more expensive than Lifetouch.

Are there any day care/preschool photogs that just send home proofs, then you can order, or is that very 1980s...

The one that we use now puts the proofs online on a password protected site.

[scrooks]

Ours is strange. In the fall we order blindly ....no proofs (this does not seem strange to me, this is how it is done at our preschool and what I was used to growing up). Now this is the strange part ....they do spring picture too!! What a racket $$$ maker for the studio!!! For the spring pictures we get a proof sheet sent home. Now if they can send proofs in the spring why can't we get proofs in the fall??? After reading this thread I totally appreciate the proof sheet versus a bunch of pictures but I am still ticked we even have spring pics done....totally not necessary!!!

[buddyleebaby]

You're not the only one bothered by this.
http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?381360-UPDATE-gt-Lifetouch-has-quite-a-racket-going-on-here&highlight=School

I actually prefer it to pre-paying for photos. It's a pain in the neck to get a refund if they are horrible, which they usually are. It's much easier to either send in a check after the fact or just return the unopened envelope, for *me*.

At our school, they use the same tactic they use for unreturned textbooks, which is holding the child's final report card until all materials are returned. I don't know how often they actually go through with it, as I've always paid for or returned mine.

This year I completely forgot it was picture day and sent dd in with somewhat of a wild ponytail and whatever she had plucked out of her drawer that day. The photos came out cute, though, messy hair and all.

[carolinacool]

The one that we use now puts the proofs online on a password protected site.

See. I would like that. It just feels so wasteful for them to print out all these photos - 11 or 12 sheets per kid. I guess they make enough to keep the business model.

ETA: Our day care does fall and spring photos, too. The Pre-K class will take some of their spring pics in caps and gowns, which is cute. But overall, twice a year seems like overkill.

[scrooks]

ETA: Our day care does fall and spring photos, too. The Pre-K class will take some of their spring pics in caps and gowns, which is cute. But overall, twice a year seems like overkill.
Our spring photos are more of a casual photo with 2 poses versus the more typical school pic looking fall picture. I think I am just ticked because I am going to have to buy some of these spring pics. Dd takes notoriously bad photos and the springs ones came out really cute!

[westwoodmom04]

Ours is strange. In the fall we order blindly ....no proofs (this does not seem strange to me, this is how it is done at our preschool and what I was used to growing up). Now this is the strange part ....they do spring picture too!! What a racket $$$ maker for the studio!!! For the spring pictures we get a proof sheet sent home. Now if they can send proofs in the spring why can't we get proofs in the fall??? After reading this thread I totally appreciate the proof sheet versus a bunch of pictures but I am still ticked we even have spring pics done....totally not necessary!!!

We have the same system, and both are by Lifetouch.

[wellyes]

In my experience, this is the norm for private school pictures. In DS's preschool, they give you the photos, and you either return them or send in a check. We usually return some, because we order more than they give us but different sizes. Ours are distributed through the school, though, so I suppose if you knew you didn't want any you could just tell the school not to give them to you (or your child). You could also call the company ahead of time and tell them not to send them if they send them directly to you.

I wouldn't keep the pictures if you're not going to pay for them, though. Is it really that big a deal just to return them? I guess it didn't occur to me to be bothered by this setup.

Ours is a public school. We did have the option to buy beforehand ; I did not, so I was surprised to get a packet and a bill. It's not a problem to return them, but frankly I don't want to play their game. I didn't buy because we are pinching pennies. It's not like I don't want photos of my kid. Now the photos are printed so the company has already paid for it all. they've processed and printed and shipped them. Now I am supposed to give them back to be shredded. It's manipulative, wasteful and kind of nasty.

Eta we had Fall pictures too. I did buy those.

[o_mom]

Does this fall under the whole unsolicitated goods being sent therefore not being legally obligated to pay? I hate Lifetouch too. Although, the quality of school photos IS much better than it was when I was a kid in the 80's.

I would guess this is the case. I don't think anyone is obligated to make an effort to return something they didn't order.

[s7714]

Our public school's photography company of choice does this for the spring photos. Yes it's annoying but I think it's becoming common practice. Ours sends home a flyer to select picture styles from prior to the picture day. Written in very small writing there is a little box to check if you will not be buying and want to opt out.

I agree with others that it doesn't seem like that big of a deal to just return them to the school. That said, I can't imagine that they can hold you legally responsible for the pictures if you didn't order them and weren't given the option of opting out. If your kid forgot to give them to you or lost them between here and there, what are they going to do?

[sweetsue98]

Our daycare does the same... We send it back if we don't like it. I actually refuse pictures being taken because I usually don't like the pictures.

[niccig]

This year was our first experience with this. DS had punched out some of the laminated pictures - a door hanger, a bookmark etc, so I *HAD* to buy those. He now knows to not do this. DH took one of the photos, then I had to remember to send the rest back, I did but I did it a week late. Oh well, it got returned. The fall photos we ordered ahead of time. I didn't like either the Fall or Spring photos. DS's olds school had the website with password to see your kids photos and they were much better photos. I prefer that system.

[Mikey0709]

SAME here- - this year they sent the laminated key chains!!! My husband and my son said - - oh we took ours already - and punched them out!!! (4 per sheet) Of course THEY didn't know this marketing ploy - - that i did not ORDER key chains, or pay for them yet!!!!! And i wouldn't have ordered them - - so my husband learned a lesson trying to fit them back into the cut out sheet to get returned.

And they also sent the 8x10 school emblem mosaic - made up by the entire school's photos. I had no desire for this $15 sticker - but i can see the kids finding it cool - and instantly STICKING it on something so you couldn't return it!!!

What's next????

[Tenasparkl]

My DD punched out the keychains and other laminated stuff too. Had to keep those!
The backgrounds that they used were so goofy. I kept what she punched out and a few pics for the grandparents and sent the rest back. Why on earth do they take pics in the fall and again in the spring? Can't they use fall pics for the yearbook?

[anonomom]

For the products like keychains, I don't see why a kid punching them out would obligate you to pay. The unwanted stuff is trashed regardless, right? It would make me furious if my school gave my kid something, unsolicited, then tried to hold me responsible if it was altered/used by my kid before I received it.

Our school does this with both photos and yearbooks. I hate it, especially since the photos are awful. Oddly, they only send home a class photo if you preorder and prepay, even though class pics are taken the same day as the ones for the packets.

[zukeypur]

This just reminded me of the pictures sitting on the coffee table. I hate that they do this. It's so wasteful.

[AnnieW625]

We have to pre order our pics without seeing them in the fall. If we don't like them then we can do a retake, which is what we did this year and it worked out fine. If I had hated them I probably would have requested a refund or just used the first ones (which weren't horrible, but DD1 forgot to wipe the chocolate milk from her mouth and had some at the sides of her mouth and I could tell although it did take me a double take to notice it!)

I would send them back with a letter stating that you don't approve of this policy and ask for a picture opt out form.

[MamaMolly]

Lula had on the cutest dress for her Spring photos, and ugly, stained (by a neighbor's puppy we played with at the bus stop that AM) sweats. I asked for just a head shot, even checked the little box!!!, but we got back full body photos. :irked: They look so stupid.

So we kept the class photo and sent back the others a week late. I hate that it makes more work for her already over taxed teacher.

And FWIW add me to the list who would not pay for the key chains, book marks, etc. if I didn't want them. What are they going to do with them if you return them? It's not like they cold have sold them to anyone else. Saying that you must pay for it when they know many children will punch them out before the photo packet makes it home is slimy.

[lizzywednesday]

Our day care used Lifetouch the first year DS was there. It didn't really bother me too much because we ended up buying the package - we're suckers.

But then they switched to Teddy Bear(??), which bugs me more. They don't send the pictures homes, but you have to stand around to see them. You pick what you want to take home, but it's still a whole stack of photos that end up getting tossed. And they are much more expensive than Lifetouch.

...

Teddy Bear did our daycare's fall photos and OMG. First off, I wasn't crazy about the poses. Then I wanted to order a small package, which they didn't offer. I didn't end up ordering because neither DH nor I managed to talk to the same people ... and then DH didn't give me a straight answer about whether he wanted to order photos at all.

LifeTouch is easier to deal with and less expensive. While I hate having to remember to return unwanted photos, I just like them better.

Thankfully, they haven't sent home keychain BS - they sell all that online.

[mommylamb]

The one that we use now puts the proofs online on a password protected site.

This sounds like such a nice way of doing it. I wish our school did this.

I also dislike having school pictures twice a year. It seems like it should be an annual thing only. Especially in modern times when pictures are so easy to take of kids and we all have a zillion digital pictures.

DS1's school does the buy sight unseen thing in the fall, and the fall picture is used in the year book. It's pretty cheap and we always get the bottom package. In the spring it's the whole thing where they send the pictures home without asking you about them and you have to send them back. Honestly, it would have to be a pretty stellar amazing picture of my kid for me to buy them since I already got fall pictures. The class picture is part of the spring pics, and that is the only one I buy.

This year, I totally forgot what day was picture day for the spring and paid zero attention. DS1 always chooses his own clothes unless there is something important and I encourage him to wear something specific. So, he had chosen his clothes that day and he is wearing these camouflage pants and an olive green shirt with Darth Vader on it. He looks like he's part of some Michigan militia or something. If I had realized it was picture day, I would have made him wear something nicer because of the class picture. Oh well. I kind of wonder if the other parents think we're some sort of militia family.

ETA: OP, I hate this tactic too, but I think you should return the pictures.

[carolinacool]

Teddy Bear did our daycare's fall photos and OMG. First off, I wasn't crazy about the poses. Then I wanted to order a small package, which they didn't offer. I didn't end up ordering because neither DH nor I managed to talk to the same people ... and then DH didn't give me a straight answer about whether he wanted to order photos at all.

LifeTouch is easier to deal with and less expensive. While I hate having to remember to return unwanted photos, I just like them better.

Thankfully, they haven't sent home keychain BS - they sell all that online.

I agree with all of this. DH works nights and can't get there the hours they are at the school, so I end up taking a picture of the pictures to text to him and then we have to figure it out while I'm standing in a crowd of other parents. It's really a pain. I also can't figure out why Teddy Bear is SO much more expensive for what looks to be about the same quality as LifeTouch. Maybe it pays its photographers more, but still.

[MamaInMarch]

I think it's ridiculous that they send home things that you didn't order and expect you to keep track of them or prevent things such as PP's examples of kids (or husbands!) punching out key rings, etc. OR feel obligated to pay for them. And I think saying that someone who doesn't fool with it and pitches them is a thief is pretty harsh.

I find this to fall more along the lines of unsolicited goods. And while I might just leave them in my child's backpack to be removed by the teacher, if they got damaged during transit or my kid (who had never been instructed otherwise) punched out pieces, I wouldn't feel obligated to pay at all. That's the whole scam in a nutshell, IMO.

[speo]

I would and do return them. I too hate this kind of system. I do wonder if there really is a way for them to make a person pay? Are we legally obligated to pay? I don't really see how. I would imagine they have non-returned/not paid built into their calculations. I am not sure I really believe that it is stealing for someone to keep them and not pay. The company chose to hand the pictures over and the parents never signed an agreement to pay.

I don't mind paying ahead of time for the fall pictures. I want them even if they aren't very good. Sometimes the pictures that aren't good are the best ones. I like them as an official record.

[Ceepa]

It's a low tactic but I would still return the photos.

[queenmama]

Private school and they do send the envelope first.

The way yours does it kind of makes sense to me, because I'm sure as h*ll not paying for pictures I dislike.

My gripe is that the photographer (a local, but a pretty "big deal" ) has errors galore on her form. Examples:

Picture's
Key chain's
Mini's

For the area's premier school, it shocks me that we employ this idiot year after year. She also photoshops the life out of everyone. I mean... I can't explain how terrible it looks. Young children with perfect skin and hair do not need the kind of editing she applies.

Lara

[123LuckyMom]

Ours is a public school. We did have the option to buy beforehand ; I did not, so I was surprised to get a packet and a bill. It's not a problem to return them, but frankly I don't want to play their game. I didn't buy because we are pinching pennies. It's not like I don't want photos of my kid. Now the photos are printed so the company has already paid for it all. they've processed and printed and shipped them. Now I am supposed to give them back to be shredded. It's manipulative, wasteful and kind of nasty.

Eta we had Fall pictures too. I did buy those.

Well that makes complete sense!!! It IS wasteful to print everything out, and it is mean to tease you with the photos that you want to keep but are forgoing in favor of more important things. Their prices-- all the companies-- are totally exorbitant, too!!!

If they want to keep this kind of model, they should print out a 5x7 (or even a 3x5) of your kid and a class picture and let you keep it whether or not you order more. I think our company does let you keep a picture free of charge. I'm not sure which one, though. It may just be the class picture. Have you double checked to see whether you are allowed to keep any free of charge?

ETA: I was wrong. No freebies. It really is true that if they are going to make a print ANYWAY they should let you have it. They're just going to throw it away. On the first set of pictures of my son ever, there was a dribble of drool hanging out of his mouth. I asked them if they could edit it out, and they did and told me to keep the drool ones. Maybe if you called the company and asked if you could just keep one, they'd give you permission.

[indigo99]

I remember a previous thread about this, and I think the concensus was that it isn't illegal for you to keep the proofs without paying (although some question the ethics of it).

DS's preschool does individual photos in the fall and a class photo in the spring. I just took their class photos this week, and we're putting up a sample for each classroom. Then the teachers collect the money, and they'll give me a total number to print of each photo. I did not take the fall photos (probably will this fall though), but I know how they do it. They have one day where the parents go in and view the photos after dropoff or before pickup so that they can order what they want.

As a photographer, I do online proof galleries for portraits and weddings because it's just more difficult for me to require viewing sessions. However, I do not think that I will be doing it for school photos. My profit depends on how many orders I receive. People understandably want to share the photos with friends and family. Once you give them a way to do that online without paying, you lose sales. For that reason and the cost and waste of printing them all up, I wouldn't do proofs of individual photos either.

FWIW, we're charging $8 for a 5x7 class photo. Doing just the class photos for this small school required 5 full days of work from me (shooting and editing). I have to pay for childcare for that time and then have the actual cost of the proofs, prints, and free prints for the faculty. The school also keeps a percentage. Almost 100% of the students would have to purchase a photo in order for me to make it as profitable as doing an equivalent amount of work for private clients. Of course part of my incentive is to turn some of these families into new clients, but this is not a moneymaker for me.

[westwoodmom04]

The schools get some kind of profit out of the school pictures, that is why some schools do it more than once. I imagine if you keep them and don't pay, they decrease the amount given to the school. Also, whether it is wasteful or not, it isn't ethical, IMO, to keep something you know payment is expected for and not pay (isn't that the very definition of theft?).

Also, I don't think it's a scam. I want to see what the pictures look like before I order (hate it in the fall when we are expected to pay in advance). It isn't really a burden to just stick them back in the backpack if I don't like/want them.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I remember a previous thread about this, and I think the concensus was that it isn't illegal for you to keep the proofs without paying (although some question the ethics of it).

DS's preschool does individual photos in the fall and a class photo in the spring. I just took their class photos this week, and we're putting up a sample for each classroom. Then the teachers collect the money, and they'll give me a total number to print of each photo. I did not take the fall photos (probably will this fall though), but I know how they do it. They have one day where the parents go in and view the photos after dropoff or before pickup so that they can order what they want.

As a photographer, I do online proof galleries for portraits and weddings because it's just more difficult for me to require viewing sessions. However, I do not think that I will be doing it for school photos. My profit depends on how many orders I receive. People understandably want to share the photos with friends and family. Once you give them a way to do that online without paying, you lose sales. For that reason and the cost and waste of printing them all up, I wouldn't do proofs of individual photos either.

FWIW, we're charging $8 for a 5x7 class photo. Doing just the class photos for this small school required 5 full days of work from me (shooting and editing). I have to pay for childcare for that time and then have the actual cost of the proofs, prints, and free prints for the faculty. The school also keeps a percentage. Almost 100% of the students would have to purchase a photo in order for me to make it as profitable as doing an equivalent amount of work for private clients. Of course part of my incentive is to turn some of these families into new clients, but this is not a moneymaker for me.

I know my extended family has ordered more b/c of being able to see proofs online. I am super cheap and buy the bare minimum, if anything. The kids' grandparents and great grandparents buy more than we ever would.

Being able to add on to my order at home is great too. Since you aren't really trying to make money off of this, I am willing to bet that the good will you would gain from families to be able to view and order online would get you repeat business for future occasions.

[SnuggleBuggles]

The schools get some kind of profit out of the school pictures, that is why some schools do it more than once. I imagine if you keep them and don't pay, they decrease the amount given to the school. Also, whether it is wasteful or not, it isn't ethical, IMO, to keep something you know payment is expected for and not pay (isn't that the very definition of theft?).

Also, I don't think it's a scam. I want to see what the pictures look like before I order (hate it in the fall when we are expected to pay in advance). It isn't really a burden to just stick them back in the backpack if I don't like/want them.

Do they honestly need to print out keychains, stickers, multiple sizes of everything... for you to be able to do that though?

[westwoodmom04]

Do they honestly need to print out keychains, stickers, multiple sizes of everything... for you to be able to do that though?

No, obviously it's a sales tactic. But still wrong to keep something you are expected to pay for, especially if school ultimately pays the price.

[wellyes]

I wasn't planning on keeping them. If someone knew this tactic was coming, didn't pay, and cheerfully took advantage to have free photos to send to family- yeah I could see that being theft.

Anyway- I was planning on tossing them. Exact same end result, but the company loses a few pennies instead of having me politely jump through its hoops so they could put my kid's photo in the landfill. If everyone did it, they'd stop this tactic.

For what it's worth, I *did* submit an order form. I purchased the full class picture and nothing else. So there is no confusion that maybe I really wanted individual photos, too. They sent home an additional 4 sheets: 8x10s, 5x8s, 4x6s and wallets. I will say, if they'd sent home one image superimposed with the word "PROOF" with the option to order more, I'd have no problem with it.

I don't think it's a huge deal either way, just really annoying.

[westwoodmom04]

I wasn't planning on keeping them. If someone knew this tactic was coming, didn't pay, and cheerfully took advantage to have free photos to send to family- yeah I could see that being theft.

Anyway- I was planning on tossing them. Exact same end result, but the company loses a few pennies instead of having me politely jump through its hoops so they could put my kid's photo in the landfill. If everyone did it, they'd stop this tactic.

For what it's worth, I *did* submit an order form. I purchased the full class picture and nothing else. So there is no confusion that maybe I really wanted individual photos, too. They sent home an additional 4 sheets: 8x10s, 5x8s, 4x6s and wallets. I will say, if they'd sent home one image superimposed with the word "PROOF" with the option to order more, I'd have no problem with it.

I don't think it's a huge deal either way, just really annoying.

Do you care if school loses money as result of you throwing them away?

[specialp]

I would rather articulate my dislike of this sales tactic to the school than to keep them and not pay. It is irrelevant what you choose to do with them once you do keep them.

[wellyes]

Do you care if school loses money as result of you throwing them away?

Yes, that is why I started this thread. To figure out how this cockamamie scheme works, and what the impacts would be if I tried to opt out.

At the same time, I want to balance my responsibility to the school vs common sense. I did not request these photos. I did not request the photo SHOOT. I do not participate in all fundraisers. The school sends me flyers, order forms, etc for several promotions that I ignore so that is the school "losing money" on me by printing those, and I don't feel any sense of obligation about those.

ETA I do participate in some fundraisers! And I bought lots of photos the first time around. I don't want to come off as a Grinch.

[mommy111]

Yes, that is why I started this thread. To figure out how this cockamamie scheme works, and what the impacts would be if I tried to opt out.

At the same time, I want to balance my responsibility to the school vs common sense. I did not request these photos. I did not request the photo SHOOT. I do not participate in all fundraisers. The school sends me flyers, order forms, etc for several promotions that I ignore so that is the school "losing money" on me by printing those, and I don't feel any sense of obligation about those.

ETA I do participate in some fundraisers! And I bought lots of photos the first time around. I don't want to come off as a Grinch.
This may seem completely heartless, but, honestly, if the school loses money over this, fine. It will teach them not to choose such a stupid scheme next time. They depend on people feeling bad about the whole situation and caving in when it's a financially and environmentally irresponsible way to act

[anonomom]

This may seem completely heartless, but, honestly, if the school loses money over this, fine. It will teach them not to choose such a stupid scheme next time. They depend on people feeling bad about the whole situation and caving in when it's a financially and environmentally irresponsible way to act

Yeah, I'm good with that.

I really wouldn't mind if it were one set of photos a year. But it's the photos. And the inscribed-with-my-child's-name yearbook that I didn't request and don't want. And the already-printed "Art by Me" magnet that they give my kid to bring home, send $5 if you want to keep it or tell your kid her artwork isn't worth that much.

And those are just the tip of the manipulative fundraising iceberg. There are also the "bring in $1 to wear pajamas/jeans/sunglasses/crazy hat" fundraisers that happen a couple times a month. And the twice-yearly walkathons. And the monthly spirit nights where you're expected to eat junk food at some restaurant so the school can get a tiny percentage of the profits.

I get that the schools need money. I pay my PTA dues and contribute well into the hundreds of dollars a year for classroom supplies, books, teacher appreciation luncheons, etc. But it gets really wearing to have a constant parade of requests for money coming home, especially when many of them come with an element of excluding kids whose parents opt out.

[MomtoNico]

I feel the same way. I just ordered a t-shirt for 17 dollars so my 4 year old can wear in his pre-school Olympics. If I don't order it he may be the only one wearing it.

I hate school picture I have never ordered them. In my town you pay for a package then the pictures are taken. I have a problem paying for pictures I haven't seen yet. So I don't bother.

[indigo99]

Being able to add on to my order at home is great too. Since you aren't really trying to make money off of this, I am willing to bet that the good will you would gain from families to be able to view and order online would get you repeat business for future occasions.

That's a good point. It is SO frustrating to a photographer when they find the proofs shared all over facebook though. Yes, we can put our names on there. However, proofs are not usually edited, and we don't necessarily want people showing them around as representative of our work when it isn't a final product. Also, when people take the photos that we intend for them to use only as proofs for ordering and then copy them and save them to their computer and share them online etc then it feels like they stole something from us. No, it doesn't cost us money for them to do that, and if you don't want it or can't afford it then that's fine. However, the image itself is what you're purchasing (not the paper print). People who wouldn't keep printed photos often have no problem saving photos online, but if someone wants to keep and share that image then they should pay the photographer for it.

I actually received a negative review from a client online once because she was mad that I put my copyright on the proofs and sized them so that she wasn't able to print them (the review isn't clear about the fact that they were proofs though). I've also been to weddings and seen programs and favors etc with proofs printed on them. I had a client email me once to tell me that he was sorry his family was printing the proofs and not ordering anything (yes they are low resolution and look crappy printed but people are often okay with that if something is free).

[ckso]

. However, proofs are not usually edited, and we don't necessarily want people showing them around as representative of our work when it isn't a final product.
).

Is there a lot of editing involved in professional photography?? None of the pictures I received from my wedding photographer was edited but I still thought they were amazing and a great reflection of their work so I wouldn't worry about that aspect of it

I hate that you don't get to see the school pics before you order them. It's like they know the quality isn't there and the parents are less likely to Order if they see the Pics first

I do see how the photographer would feel cheated though if people used the pics without paying for them. I know photographers put big watermarks on the center of the photo instead of towards the bottom to help deter people from doing that


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[indigo99]

Is there a lot of editing involved in professional photography??

I spend a LOT more time in front of the computer than I ever spend actually shooting. Just weeding through all of the shots, comparing, and choosing the keepers takes a significant amount of time. Then everything gets adjusted for brightness, contrast, color, cropping, level horizon etc. Then I convert everything from the raw files that I get out of the camera into files that I can individually edit in photoshop. Then I do any individual edits needed on the photos. Then I resize and output a printable file. Some photographers outsource much of the editing side of the business of course, but the short answer is yes. There is probably a lot more editing going on than you think.

With a good photographer, however, you wouldn't necessarily know that they're edited. With just the class photos, I edited out cars and houses in the background. I also swapped out heads to get a photo with as many smiling kids as possible. I edited out food around mouths, runny noses, and scrapes. I also lightened some under eye circles on the teachers, fixed a few blemishes, smoothed out some shirts to help hide a few extra pounds, and faded some wrinkles. If you look at the photos then you may think that I added some saturation or contrast, but you would have no idea that I did the rest of it even though it's hours and hours of work. Portraits are what usually require the most editing so the majority of wedding photos don't receive that much individual editing. Engagement, bridal, family, newborn, child, and other portraits usually do though.

I wouldn't set things up so that parents have to pay before the photos are taken, but it gets tough when it's a large school. I can understand the desire to spend time on those kids whose parents may actually want the photos and not bother with those who definitely won't be purchasing them. However, if you ask who wants them taken then I'm guessing the majority will say yes even if some already know that they won't actually purchase them.

(Sorry, OP. Didn't mean to hijack)

[SnuggleBuggles]

Is there a happy medium, indigo? I mean, I don't expect cars and houses to be edited out. I'd expect you to take 2-3 pictures of each kid, choose the best and move on. But, this assumes you are doing the work as a volunteer vs having been paid a significant, appropriate compensation by the school. I don't know what the case is. Anyway, I wouldn't expect all that editing just for a school picture.