Kids excluding other kids

[Gracemom]

My 7 year old DS was playing with his cub scout den in a park. Two boys were sitting on a giant rock. There was plenty of room for other kids on the rock. I could see that my DS was being told he couldn't sit on the rock. My DS arguing with them. I went over, and one of the boys, who I know well, told me that he didn't want my DS to sit on the rock with him and the other boy because my DS had not signed the "friendship agreement" and couldn't play with them. I said that it was a scout den activity and everyone should play together, and if they wanted to play alone some time, they should arrange a playdate. They reluctantly let my DS up on the rock.

On they way home, my DS started telling me about other times the one boy has excluded him. He told my DS that he had to know the right code to play with his group at recess, but the boy wouldn't tell him the code. What the heck??? My DS is very sad about this. Should I talk with the boy's mom? We are friends and see each other after school once or twice a week. She has been open about being challenged by her DS and has taken parenting classes to learn how to parent him more effectively. If you were in her shoes, would you want to know about this?

Should I just teach my DS strategies for dealing with boys like this? He is very sensitive, and will get upset when he perceives things as not being fair. This same boy has called him a cry baby. I have worked with my DS on being "tougher" in terms of not showing his emotions quite so much in social situations (trying not to cry or whine when his feelings get hurt, and expressing his thoughts with words instead) Ugh. Social problems can be so hard!

[ha98ed14]

You have my sympathies! I have dealt with similar problems with my DD- several of her regular playmates are the daughters of my close friends. There has been a lot of "So&so being bossy..." and distress over whose "side" DD should take. My advice is this- if you are very, very close with the mom--as in you would tell her about your own personal issues-- then go ahead and tell her. You have to be pretty sure that your friendship will survive any percieved "accusations." However, if it's a friendship of convenience, then I would go through the den leader or the teacher/school. I have done both with 2 different girls DD was struggling with amd thankfully have resolved the issue both times. Like you, I have also worked with DD. In her case, the solution was to keep empowering her with the knowledge that she doesn't have to be on anyone's side. Shr can take herself out of the game and go do something else. It has taken her a while to "get it" and is not always good about remembering, but she is much more aware of her friends' tendancies to be bossy and realize that the only power they have over her is the power she gives them. Many hugs to you. You are right; it is not easy.

[sste]

Well, our practice so far has been to talk with DS and 1) acknowledge his feelings (you must have felt sad, I would have felt sad too); 2) emphasize there is no shame and we all experience this (daddy and I had kids not want to play with us sometimes in school too, everyone does); 3) ask DS for his ideas about what to do; 4) his idea is usually to tell them x or y and basically badger the other kids and we will then try to say, "using words is a good idea--I think you should say ONCE to them that you don't like that and its not how boy scouts act; 5) we ask questions about what to do if the kids don't respond and we basically try to lead him via our questions and suggestions to what I think is the best response, find other kids to play with and give that social interaction a break!!

I sort of cobbled this together from a few different books and advice here.

I have also emailed the teacher (in your case den leader) to get her view of whether x was an isolated incident or if DS is having the start of social issues. To date I have not even mentioned the other kids' names because I don't think it is relevant - - we didn't have a bully situation just typical of that age comments, in my brief experience they all say this stuff at one time or another about not playing/can't play. The teacher was able to reassure me on the social front that he was playing and she also volunteered that she thought the class needed a reminder about rules for playing (our school rule is that you can't exclude anyone) since kids seemed to be slipping a bit following a school break.

Personally I would not go to the other parent as I think alot of that amounts to an effort to control others which is generally low yield -- perhaps the most futile example since one is attempting to not only control others but to control a child through a parent who isn't even going to be on-site. I view what little control I have to be in the area of teaching coping skills. Unfortunately, it is easy to pick up the phone or email the teacher but it is hard to figure out how to teach little ones coping skills, I have been reading and working alot on this recently . . .

[Momit]

Well, our practice so far has been to talk with DS and 1) acknowledge his feelings (you must have felt sad, I would have felt sad too); 2) emphasize there is no shame and we all experience this (daddy and I had kids not want to play with us sometimes in school too, everyone does); 3) ask DS for his ideas about what to do; 4) his idea is usually to tell them x or y and basically badger the other kids and we will then try to say, "using words is a good idea--I think you should say ONCE to them that you don't like that and its not how boy scouts act; 5) we ask questions about what to do if the kids don't respond and we basically try to lead him via our questions and suggestions to what I think is the best response, find other kids to play with and give that social interaction a break!!

I sort of cobbled this together from a few different books and advice here.

I have also emailed the teacher (in your case den leader) to get her view of whether x was an isolated incident or if DS is having the start of social issues. To date I have not even mentioned the other kids' names because I don't think it is relevant - - we didn't have a bully situation just typical of that age comments, in my brief experience they all say this stuff at one time or another about not playing/can't play. The teacher was able to reassure me on the social front that he was playing and she also volunteered that she thought the class needed a reminder about rules for playing (our school rule is that you can't exclude anyone) since kids seemed to be slipping a bit following a school break.

Personally I would not go to the other parent as I think alot of that amounts to an effort to control others which is generally low yield -- perhaps the most futile example since one is attempting to not only control others but to control a child through a parent who isn't even going to be on-site. I view what little control I have to be in the area of teaching coping skills. Unfortunately, it is easy to pick up the phone or email the teacher but it is hard to figure out how to teach little ones coping skills, I have been reading and working alot on this recently . . .

I agree with this. Your DS will be better served by learning skills to help when he is faced with this sort of situation. Having his mom step in and make other kids include him is not really a long term solution - what about all the times you aren't there, what if the other kids start teasing him that his mom has to make them play with him etc.

It's surprising how mean kids can be, and as a parent it's hard to watch. We've had this issue arise a few times as well and are working on coping strategies.

[JBaxter]

I was going to type out the same thing. Don't step in unless there are bad words exchanged or physical contact is made Telling him they don't want to play with him isnt uncommon. You need to teach him coping skills. Kids with secret "clubs or friendships" is not uncommon in that age group.
I agree with this. Your DS will be better served by learning skills to help when he is faced with this sort of situation. Having his mom step in and make other kids include him is not really a long term solution - what about all the times you aren't there, what if the other kids start teasing him that his mom has to make them play with him etc.

It's surprising how mean kids can be, and as a parent it's hard to watch. We've had this issue arise a few times as well and are working on coping strategies.

[kboyle]

I agree with jeana and momit, as much as we moms want to step in they have to learn that skill on their own. I just had to talk with ds1/5th gr about how to behave if he no longer wants to play with friends because they are growing apart and vice versa. It tough to watch as a parent and it's difficult for the kids to figure out on their own but they need to. A friend of mine's son has been in several situations and she takes care of it and talks with the children or even with the other parents and it's making the other children push her child away more. Sometimes kids have secret clubs or grow apart and get different interests and we just have to deal.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[wellyes]

I think you're getting great advice here, the only exception I can think of is if you are the scout leader and it's a troop activity. Here it sounds like kids in the same pack who happen to be playing together outside of scouts and I agree with the advice to generally not step in, in that case.

[Simon]

I think you did the right thing, in that moment. I would probably have said, "In this troop, everyone is welcome" and expected them to make room. I don't think its okay for them to be exclusionary (in the example you gave) within troop activities.

For other situations, I think you have gotten good advice. I agree to talk it out with your Ds and brainstorm what to do if/when it happens again in other situations.

[Gracemom]

Great advice so far. Thanks! I was in a gray area in this situation because I was supervising the kids for a den activity, but I am not the den leader.

My DS sees this boy every day in class, at recess, at lunch, weekly at scout activities, and once or twice a week after school at the park or during playdates at their home. When they are alone together, they play really well. My DS considers him his best friend. The problem is when there is another boy present, and the excluding begins. My DS is very confused! I think the advice above about working with him on social skills is very good, and I will continue to do so. The school has an excellent counselor, and she facilitates social skills groups. My DD has benefited greatly from the group, and I will ask if my DS can be in the boys' group.

I am good friends with this mom, and I would want to know if my kid was acting like that. She is not defensive about her kid's misbehavior, and we open up to each other about our struggles. She disciplined her DS after he pushed my DS off a swing, for example. She was very upset with her DS. If I did talk with her about it, it would not be to "tell" on her kid, but to develop a strategy to prevent the conflicts. (Is this even possible?) I have heard her tell the teacher at school that she wants to know how her son is behaving so that she can work with him on behavior at home. My DH noticed the excluding during a campout, and was very bothered by it.

I know it is very common, as my DD has struggled with similar kids, just not with a "best friend" type of relationship. I will keep thinking about this. Any and all advice appreciated!

[BunnyBee]

I agree on working with your DS to strategize, but I would probably give the teacher a heads up that the problem is pervasive at school. She could get the counselor to work with all of the boys. They should stand up for themselves and their friends! It only gets harder as they get older.

[JBaxter]

Some kids ( IME anway) have a preferred friend. They will play with others but if "bestie" is there they will play with them and ignore others.

[KpbS]

We had kind of a similar friend problem last year. DS1 had a friend who was a great buddy when it was the two of them outside of school. They talked, played, cracked jokes, had a great time. Mid-year she got very jealous of him and proceeded to be friendly to him sometimes and horribly mean (sometimes bullying him) other times. It was really hard on DS1 emotionally. We talked a lot about him being kind regardless of her ill treatment and learning that some people are not true friends. True friends will not try to put you down in front of other friends, mock you, exclude you, or spread lies about you. Really tough lesson. DH did end up talking to her parent as they were friendly and let him know about her bad behavior. I also spoke to the teacher to tell her DS1 was really upset and to please be on the lookout for the "friend's" mistreatment in the classroom but this was after about 3 months of trying everything else. Thankfully they are in different classes this year and it hopefully is water under the bridge.

[Gracemom]

I have a very positive update! The family invited us over and the parents brought it up. Their DS was exhibiting really bossy behavior in front of them, and the dad was very unhappy with him and disciplined him on the spot. The dad started talking about what a challenge he has been lately, and how he has been spending a lot of time in his room for behavior problems. They are frustrated with him and know how he has bossed my DS around, playing games that excluded him, etc. The mom said she was proud of my DS for telling her son that his behavior was hurting his feelings, instead of just getting emotional like he used to. They played really well for the next 2 hours. I feel a huge weight lifted off my shoulders. These are very good parents, and they are helping their DS figure out complicated emotions, control issues, etc. I am sure that there will still be issues at school, and I will continue to work with my DS about expressing himself, finding other friends to play with, learning how to control his emotions, etc. He will need these skills in life, so might as well learn them now. Thanks for all the input!