Baby sleep problems...when is it too early to let an infant cry?

[AnimalBabe]

Hi everyone. My second little boy just turned 3 months old and I've noticed the last week especially that he won't nap well if he isn't either in his swing or in the car (with it constantly moving). Nighttime sleep hasn't been too bad..he only wakes 1-2 times, but until two days ago he was only napping for long periods of time in the swing. I read I should try to cut that out this month and transition him to the crib for naps, but I spent all of today and some of yesterday working on that and he would only take short 30 minute naps, wake crying, refuse to go back to sleep for another two hours, and be cranky. I think he napped for at most 2 hours today total, vs 5 hours in the swing like usual! Plus, it was very hard to get him down for bedtime tonight (when it hasn't been at all)..so I think that the lack of sleep during the day might just end up messing with his good nighttime sleep. I guess I just want to make sure I'm doing the right thing...is it really that bad to let him continue to nap in the swing for another month or so? Will it be extremely difficult if I do so, to try this transition to the crib in another month or two? How many hours a day should an infant really have anyway for naps during the day?

Lastly, is it ok to let him cry for 10 minutes or so and see if he puts himself to sleep? I thought you weren't supposed to try "cry it out" until around 6 mod, and I don't want to even think of that yet, but I wasn't sure if a few minutes of crying at least was ok right now. Unlike my first son, this little guy never really seemed to want to be rocked. If anything, he gets annoyed by too much carrying, etc, and at night just wants to eat and go right back to sleep. But of course, tonight, after a day of no sleep that wasn't the case and he popped right back up as soon as his head hit the crib. :-( Any thoughts would be greatly appreciated! Thank you!!

[JBaxter]

I never considered 10 minutes cry it out. That ( to me) was lets see if he settles himself full on wailing at 10 minutes I went to get them. I did cry it out for naps after about 9 months but I would never consider it earlier than that for my 4. All mine would get awake fuss / cry for a bit during the night sometimes I would go rub their back other just wait to see of they settled.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I wouldn't worry nor would I strictly adhere to advice to stop something that is obviously working. I never heard that 3m was a magic window to transition. I personally found that until 6 months, I do whatever works! You are incredibly lucky to have good night time sleep. I wouldn't mess that up because you want to get naps "right".

I always found little ones to be cat nappers so I wouldn't expect your little one to be in their swing for huge chunks of time; not enough to stress about.

Trust your personal judgment on the 10m of crying. I would probably not have let mine cry that long but a bit of fussing wouldn't stress me out a bunch.

Truly, at this point, do what works. We never had trouble transitioning (maybe a rough day or 2). Mine napped in their bouncy seats or my arms the first few months then went on to be fine nappers. :)

[Philly Mom]

My kids did not nap in the crib until 5+ months. I tried a couple times earlier and didn't work. I did what worked until it didn't and then transitioned to the crib. I was ok with 10 mins of crying if it was settling down crying as opposed to getting more hysterical crying, hard to explain. When my kids hit around 3 months, if I tried to help them get to sleep it would take longer than giving them a few minutes to fall asleep on their own if they didn't fall asleep nursing first.


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[BDKmom]

My kids transitioned to crib naps at different time, but for both it was when they became to distracted by things going on around them to sleep in the swing anymore. That's when they needed a quiet place (a crib) to sleep. My DS transitioned at about 3.5 months, but DD didn't until around 5.5 mos. Both switched over with no problems. We carried over some of their nighttime routine (a story and a couple of songs) to nap time and it seemed to work well. I would say watch your DS for cues. If something doesn't seem to be working, that may be when it's time to try something else.

I would be ok with a few minutes of crying at this age, just to see if they can settle themselves down, but probably not 10 min of all out wailing. But certainly ok with 4 or 5 minutes of fussing before settling down.

[drako]

May two DDs napped and slept in the swing until 5 & 7 months old! I did what worked and they transitioned to great nappers and night time sleepers in the crib. I transitioned both to naps in the crib and then followed to night time. The transition was a few tough days but it ended up just fine!


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[Raidra]

I was always of the "do whatever gets everyone the most sleep" opinion. My kids napped in the swing, in my bed, in the Moby wrap, and occasionally in the crib. We never did CIO, and they all learned how to self-soothe and fall asleep on their own in a reasonable time frame.

In my experience, it was always way better to just take the path of least resistance to getting them enough sleep. With my first two, we did try to be a little more 'by the book' about things, and it just led to exhaustion and frustration. We just followed our instincts with the last two.

[DualvansMommy]

dS1 napped in his swing almost most of his time for 4.5 or 5 months then transitioned to crib. I remember few days of adjustment period but ok after that. dS2 napped in his swing until he basically outgrew the swing so I say around 5.5 or 6 months, transitioned into crib better than his older brother!

So if I were you, I would leave things as it is until DS is bit older.

10 min CIO is ok, like one pp said it's more of settling and let's see but I usually go in if it escalated though by time 10 mins is up.


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[Green_Tea]

It was at 12 weeks that I noticed that I needed to start the nap wind down before the baby seemed tired. So exactly 1:45 minutes after they woke I would change the diaper and start nursing. 2 hours to the minute they would be swaddled and in the crib/bassinet, drowsy but awake. The room would be dark, and the white noise machine on. Sometimes there was 5-10 minutes of fussing, but rarely full-on crying.

I never went past 10 minutes of crying - I quickly noticed that more crying was almost always a sign of being overtired, so sometimes cut back to 90 min between naps. IME, fussiness at nap time and bedtime is almost always a sign that my children need MORE sleep. YMMV, of course :).

[AustenFan]

My mom's and my rule of thumb was about 5 minutes of fussing per month old, after the first couple of months. Mine basically slept 22 hours a day until about 2 months, so they never really fussed much until the third month, but yes, 10 minutes at 3 months would be okay in my book. Agree with PPs who said you're still in the whatever-works stage--swing, bouncy seat, whatever helps. HOWEVER. All four of mine were/are GREAT sleepers, and I firmly believe it's because I really did establish the eat-play-sleep routine in those 3rd to 6th months (a la the Baby Whisperer (http://www.amazon.com/gp/product/0345479092/ref=as_li_tl?ie=UTF8&camp=1789&creative=390957&creativeASIN=0345479092&linkCode=as2&tag=everytosomeo-20&linkId=BHBL6SKE2TA2YSPS), but I didn't know the book at the time--just took my pediatrician's advice). So I really did train them to fall asleep on their own. My son cried the most--definitely up to 20 minutes a night by a year or so--but no amount of rocking or swinging or driving or anything would work. He just had to cry himself to sleep--it didn't escalate, never threw up or anything, he just settled himself by crying. He outgrew that by 18 months, and he's a very smart, cheerful, well-adjusted kid.

Anyway, hugs for the poor sleep day today. Sleep begets sleep, so I'm not surprised when my kids have bad naps one day that they end up struggling to go to sleep at night. When they get overtired, it's harder to settle them down. (And agree with a PP that maybe the crying is the cue to start the wind-down process a few minutes sooner?) Keep up the gentle nudging towards falling asleep on his own, knowing that the "6 month mark" is an average! :hug5:

[AnimalBabe]

Anyway, hugs for the poor sleep day today. Sleep begets sleep, so I'm not surprised when my kids have bad naps one day that they end up struggling to go to sleep at night. When they get overtired, it's harder to settle them down. (And agree with a PP that maybe the crying is the cue to start the wind-down process a few minutes sooner?) Keep up the gentle nudging towards falling asleep on his own, knowing that the "6 month mark" is an average! :hug5:


thanks, everyone! I switched back to the swing today and he's napping a little better/longer again. I think I'll just stick to what's working, as you all suggested, for at least another month or two, and then reevaluate. One thought, would you all be ok with moving a swing to the nursery, out of line-of-sight? I was worried about him in there without me having constant supervision while he's in the swing, especially since he's swaddled in there...but the swing is currently in our living room next to the TV (no where else to put it) and the reason I started trying out naps in the crib is because he gets woken up by my son. However, I don't want to constantly tell my 5 year old to be quiet for fear of waking the baby.

For the eat, play, sleep routine...when did you start that? I feel like he gets drowsy while breastfeeding, and I think he would just scream if I tried to let him play before putting him in the swing. At night I put him down int he crib right after feeding and gently rocking in the rocking chair, and he is awake and goes right back to sleep...but that's not at all the case with naps.

I definitely agree about starting the routine early too. He seems to want to take a nap or go to bed exactly two hours after he last woke, so I generally try to start everything about 15 minutes before that.

Thanks too for the advice about CIO. If the crying escalates, I have been going back in to get him, assuming he just wasn't tired yet, he's rather particular about the exact timing of his naps/bedtime. Also, complicating things, I thought he would have more of a set routine for naps by now, but some days he wants to go right back to sleep only one hour after waking, so it's still a little unpredictable.

[SnuggleBuggles]

As to swing location, ds2 always slept in the center of the action and I didn't shush ds1. I figure babies are awesome at sleeping through noise and get even better if its normal.

[AnimalBabe]

As to swing location, ds2 always slept in the center of the action and I didn't shush ds1. I figure babies are awesome at sleeping through noise and get even better if its normal.

Yep, I was told at our last daycare when my son was a baby that it's better to get them used to sleeping with noise around. I know I need to not be so concerned about that one, and I really hate telling my son to be quiet, he needs to be a kid and have fun! They also told me not to make the room very dark during nap time, but I can't believe babies can sleep in such bright conditions. I'm still unsure about that one.

[indigo99]

We tried to sleep train DS at 4 months. It did not go well, and our pediatrician said "Of course not because he's too young". A friend sleep trained hers at 4 months, and it went great for them. I guess it's just one of those things that varies a lot. I have to agree that you just have to figure out what works for you.

[Katigre]

Have you looked at the nap tips on www.incredibleinfant.com? She has some really great suggestions for what to do to set up good routines and even a napping webinar.

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[AustenFan]

My amazing first pediatrician said STTN was totally related to body weight, not age. They're physiologically able to go that long without eating when they reach 12-14 lbs. My kids all slept 8 hours by 12 lbs and 12 hours by 14 lbs. The ages that they did that varied, so I never tell people to sleep train by age but by weight.

As far as the swing goes, yes, DD4 did sleep a lot in her swing those first several months, and I didn't think twice about having it in a different room. All my kids have had to learn to sleep through noise, but they nap better and longer when they're in a dark, calm place (even if their siblings are yelling and running around in the next room). I sleep better in a dark, calm place!

ETA because my toddler shut down my computer just now: I know STTN and putting themselves to sleep are two different skills. I just found the weight range helpful in that I didn't even try or expect my kids to STTN until then. Going to sleep on their own is the first step, of course, and I wouldn't even worry about "sleep training" to sleep through the night until that skill is solid.

I started eat-play-sleep as soon as they started having long spells of wakefulness (not those early weeks when they just go right back to sleep). As soon as they woke up, I'd feed them to start the routine. If you're still nursing when the baby wakes up AND before he goes back to sleep, you'd want to wait longer, but if he's down to one feeding per wakeful period, that was the point where I moved to feeding at the beginning of the wakeful period, not the end. And yes, before bedtime, I did one last nurse and put them down drowsy. I'm a big believer in routines, but I never would NOT feed them again if they were truly acting hungry, kwim? During growth spurts and sickness, of course I fed them more than once per waking session. But in general, overall, once they're eating once every 2-3 hours, I moved to eat-play-sleep.