Europe with kids?

[geochick]

We want to take the kids (10 and 12 then) to Europe for two weeks next summer. We're pretty good at the all-inclusive vacation to Mexico and the family trips to FL and CA, but can you give me advice on a European adventure with kids? We've been to Europe before, just not with kids. I think we'll focus on one region (probably the UK or the German speaking countries).

I don't want to be on a bus every day traveling to a new city. Ideally, I'd love to have 3+ days in each city, and then I'd like to be transported to the next area. I don't want to drive. One time my mom and I did 11 countries in 5 weeks. That's too intense for my family. What do you recommend? Have you taken your kids on a tour? Can you recommend a tour company? Should we fly to London, spend a few days on our own, and then hook up with a tour of the rest of the UK?

Thanks. We're just getting started with the planning of this thing.

[SnuggleBuggles]

My friends just did a similar trip. They did London, Paris, Venice (their favorite) and Rome. They loved it!

[smilequeen]

We just got back from Europe, but we did it differently because of the ages of our kids (10, 8, and 4). My 8 and 4 year olds can't handle a ton of walking. So we started with a cruise and then spent 4 days in Rome, which was perfect for their ages. So I can't help with your type of trip...but I can say that we had awesome luck booking tours through our travel agent, both as excursions off the boat and for our few days in Rome. Kid friendly, English speaking, transportation included, etc. We could only do half days because of ages, so we picked a hotel in Rome a little farther away, but with pools, tennis courts, etc so we could relax in the afternoon.

We are looking into a London/Paris trip in the next few years and we'd take the train between cities. Really easy to do in Europe. I am looking forward to doing this when my boys are older like yours but we figured if we waited that long (for the youngest to be older) we'd miss a lot of chances before the oldest was off to college, so we went for it :)

[geochick]

My general rule is to avoid travel agents as much as possible because I really enjoy the research and hunting for a travel bargain, but I can see in this case how using a travel agent is probably the way to go. I love the idea of taking a train between cities. My mom and I once took a hovercraft across the English Channel, but I think I read that has been retired. :(

Thanks!

[american_mama]

Is your previous travel in Europe with bus tours? That does not sound like the most fun for kids.... cannot stop in any non-scheduled way, stop only in big places that can accomodate the bus and crowd, buses are boring.

I love train travel in Europe. German Rail (Deutsche Bahn) tickets are free for kids under age 14 when traveling with their parents, see http://www.bahn.com/i/view/GBR/en/services/family/children-prices.shtml
I would google what the UK offers for family and child disounts. It can make family rail travel very affordable. As I recall, if you buy a ticket through Deutsche Bahn that starts or ends in Germany, the German rules apply and kids are free, even if the end destination is in another country (so you could go Germany - Austria, or Germany - Czech Republic as we did). A travel agent may also be able to set you up with ticket discounts making it even cheaper. You don't need or want a car in most European cities, so you arrive by train at your destination, and either take a cab or public transportation to your lodging, then reverse it on the way out. Sometimes it's easier to take a cab when you arrive since it's all new, then through sightseeing and learning the city over a few days, you know enough to take cheaper public transportation on your departure.

You can even take night trains with reserved beds (called couchettes for the cheaper kind or sleepers for the more expensive kind). This is great fun and a big timesaver as you travel while you sleep, and DH and I considered the couchettes comfortable enough. Certain routes work really for this, with departures at dinner or later and arrival in the early morning. You'll have to ask for popular routes or search the internet; I know Prague - Cologne worked great for our family and was a real highlight.

For activities with kids, I think it helps to think of sights that are more experiential or active. For example, my kids will climb a church tower for the view with more willingness than tour the church itself. My kids all liked a cave tour better than a city tour, and a fun bike or boat tour better than a hop off/on city bus tour. Smaller museums are better than the big ones: Anne Frank House was good for all of them whereas we never even entered the famous art museums in Amsterdam. A museum of medieval crime and punishment was better than a broader history museum. If there are some non-kid sights that you cannot miss, I would outline expectations and timeframe, and give a reward for good behavior at the end.

At your kids' ages, having their own camera or cameras may also appeal.

As an added plus for train travel, there are also lots of European families traveling on trains , which will probably not spark interaction between the kids at their ages, but might between the adults, which can be a great way to add conversation with other nationalities to your European trip. Oh, and you should travel second class which is excellent. First class is more business and adult-oriented, sometimes with designated quiet cars or zones.

[Philly Mom]

I think I would travel on my own and not as part of a tour. You can go at your own pace and concentrate on a few areas. We spend a lot of time in the UK. If I was to do the UK, I would spend a few days in London. We like the countryside. The English rail system is good so you can take a train anywhere and supplement with cabs as needed. We often use a car but we truly like to travel at our own pace and we have access to one from my in laws. We also use trains. From London, it is easy to take a train to Bath, a beautiful city. From Bath and/or Bristol (bigger city near Bath) you can get buses or trains north or further southwest, like to Devon or the Cornish coast. You can also go up to the Cotswolds. You can also go to Oxford easily by train or Stratford on Avon. For a pretty cathedral town, Salisbury is beautiful. Cheddar, south of bath/Bristol has fun gorges to explore.


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[cuca_]

I agree about skipping the bus tour. We travelled to Germany and Austria last year and had a great trip. We did drive, rather the take the train, but I think taking the train would be fun. And as American Mama suggested, I think it is important to mix in a lot of kid geared activities or experiences. While we visited castles and churches and other historical sites, we also did bike tours, zoos, parks, etc... The highlight for our kids was staying on a working farm in Germany.

[hillview]

It will be awesome. I'd skip a tour bus and rent a place or 2. Enjoy!

[citymama]

We've taken our kids to Europe - just London and Paris. We stayed with friends in London for a week (different sets of friends) and in an apartment in Paris. I highly recommend the apartment rental. We did everything ourselves, no bus tours. 10 and 12 are great ages for it. Ours were just 3 and 7! We hope to make another some time in the next couple of years with them to either Italy or Greece, when they're more like 7 and 11.

[StantonHyde]

My brother just got back from 2 weeks--1 in Paris and 1 in England. They took the direct flight from SLC to Paris. They rented an apartment in a decent neighborhood in each city. They did some excursions either via mass transit/train. They rented bikes and road around Paris. They had an awesome time. I love, love, love renting apartments the few times we have been to Europe. I want to be in a neighborhood and have space for everybody and a full kitchen etc. There is no way I will do a tour--I did one when I was 18 for school--never again. I think you will have fun! We are probably going to London for a week next summer--can't wait!

[marinkitty]

We took our kids to Europe earlier this summer (ages 7, 10 and 12) and have been with them before. I would not do tours. You can't bail when you need to and being herded around like sheep with a grumpy or tired kid is the seventh circle of hell. And I think a good rule of thumb is to plan everything you'd do without kids and then choose one third of that to do with them. Europe with kids taken slowly with time for breaks and chilling out is awesome. Europe full steam ahead trying to see everything in a week or two with kids is a disaster. Pick one or two great spots and take it easy. Find a comfortable home base (apartments or rental homes are terrific) and meander at your own pace through the sights. I do think train travel is easiest if you don't want to drive. Ice cream daily. Pool, park or beach breaks. No more than two museums or similar "sights" a day - one if it is something huge like the Lourve or Vatican. My kids are hugely fond of castles and ruins, preferably the ones they can run all over and pretend play (e.g., an explore freehand place vs. a strict palace-type tour). We usually rent a car because we like to be totally on our own schedule, but if you are going to be based in cities, a car is more trouble and expense than it is worth IMO.

[Globetrotter]

Consider doing a cruise combined with a few days in the port city or one week in the destination or departure country. Book excursions on your own or just explore each city. It can get hectic, but keep your expectations in check and don't plan to see everything- pick and choose. Cruises are fun because you only unpack once and food and evening entertainment are provided, plus transportation is built in.

on land, book apartments or suites with kitchens. I prefer to establish a home base and go for day trips via train. Train travel can be fun for the kids, whether local or intercity. That way you can see two major cities in a week.

Scandinavian countries are very kid friendly, and kids usually go free, from museums to hotel stays. The museums tended to have a cool kid zone, if they weren't totally kid friendly. Mediterranean countries are fun, too. UK is very doable, also. Almost anywhere, as long as you keep a slower pace and stop in the playgrounds :)

Given train travel, I really don't see the need for a tour company in most places. You can hire a guide as needed at various sights.

[geochick]

Wow! You have all given me so much to think about. Thank you!

[essnce629]

It will be awesome. I'd skip a tour bus and rent a place or 2. Enjoy!

Yes to this!

We did 3 weeks in Greece and Rome last summer when the kids were 5 and 10. We had a wedding on the island of Naxos first, so spent 6 (?) days there. We were able to island hop after that and spent several more days on the island of Paros (5?) with day trips to the islands of Antiparos and Santorini. We then spent several days in Athens and then did Rome last. We did it all on our own, no tours except for one quick day trip to Santorini, and I wish we would have skipped the tour and done it on our own as well. We stayed in hotels on the islands of Greece, but in apartments in Athens and Rome. We found and booked our apartments through airbnb. We rented a car on the Greek islands, but used taxis and public transportation in Athens and Rome. Whatever cities you decide on, I highly recommend the Rick Steve's travel guides for each city. They were a huge help in planning out our entire itinerary in Athens and Rome. The guides in the books for the museums, etc are great and really helped us focus on the most important must-see areas. We used the books exclusively and never felt the need to hire a tour guide, etc. I really don't feel like we missed out on anything and with older kids you really should be able to do and see a ton. DS2 had just turned 5 at the time and any younger and I feel it would have been much more difficult.

[edurnemk]

We haven't done Europe with kids yet, since they're young, but when we were teenagers we went with our parents, my youngest brother was 12. I have never done a bus tour through Europe, I really think you don't get to experience Europe as well in that kind of tour. I don't know if it's been mentioned but I'd like to suggest my favorite way of moving from one city to the next: trains. We even did overnight trains and we had a blast when we were young. DH and I still use mostly trains to get around. You can prebook a lot of tours or museums before you get there and avoid lines, especially in Italy (prebooking the museums in Florence and the Vatican is a MUST). I do everything myself online.
A cruise could also be a good alternative. Oh and I second the Rick Steves guides. We also downloaded his audiotours to our iphones last year and used those in several places instead of hiring a tourguide or paying for the audiotour at the museums.

[gatorsmom]

For the past 2 years we have been taking out kids to France for 2 weeks. Both times we rented a house for the entire two week period. Last summer we rented a house in the South if France. We were in a village so we could wake up and walk to the grocery store, bakery or restaurant. My kids told me that was one of their favorite aspects of the trip. They loved bringing their scooters and riding to the bakery to pick out croissants in the morning.

We would take short day trips every day. We drove to the Papal palaces in Avignon, we saw the Roman- built theater in Orange, we saw the roman- built arenas at Nime and Arles. The kids LOVED that stuff. Their least favorite trips were into crowded cities. And they hated being in the enclosed cars. This summer we stayed in the Loire Valley for 2 weeks. They really like the medieval castles we saw with dungeons and drawbridges. Only my daughter and occasionally my oldest DS cared about the renaissance castles. The younger 2 boys were clearly bored until we toured Clos Luce which was the castle Da Vinci lived at. There were inventions and prototypes of his inventions all over the place. All the kids loved climbing on those things.

We plan to go again next summer and we will rent a house for 2 weeks again and stay in a village again. I hate having to pack up and unpack stuff when we went to a different hotel as we have done on other vacations. We just really enjoyed the slower pace and less stress of staying in one spot and getting to know the local town and even some townspeople. It was nice having laundry facilities in the house too.

eta- I also highly recommend the Rick Steve's books. And I recommend downloading a GPS app if you are going to be driving. Either that or get a Michelin map. They were life savers! I also agree with Marinkitty's suggestions. Ice cream stops every day, plan on lots of running around and climbing (even for your 12 year old). And plan on a slower pace.

[Globetrotter]

I agree- rick steves and daily gelato!