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basil
12-21-2015, 01:38 PM
Our dog, Penny, is 6 years old. We got her about a year after we got married - our first baby, so to speak. I had dogs growing up but this was DH's first dog.

We chose her breed because my DH has allergies and she is small (<10 lbs) and non shedding. We got her from a very reputable breeder at 12 weeks old. I read a bunch of dog books around that time - how to train, etc.

We lived in a condo at the time and she came in the middle of winter, a small shivering tropical dog who was less than 5 lbs. We ended up training her on pee pads. When we moved to a house, 9 months later, we tried to transition her to going potty outside, but she has never been very well potty trained. I feel like I've tried a million times. This summer I was resolved to get her housebroken once and for all. She was in the crate a lot for a few months straight and didn't have any accidents. But as soon as I started giving her more freedom, she started having accidents again. A few week is where we are at now.

She's overall a very anxious, frightened dog. She barks a lot at people walking by, the UPS guy, mailman, and any stranger entering the house. We have had to be very careful with housekeepers and repair people - we have a crate in our basement set up for this purpose. She's never actually bitten anyone but I do worry a lot that she would if given the opportunity. We have been very careful in introducing her to nannies/babysitters as she initially growls and snarls at them. She then warms up after she sees them a few times, but it's been stressful for me.

She is frightened by the kids, sometimes. Of course, they are 4 and 18 months and don't always behave in rational, predictable ways. This morning by daughter clobbered her on the nose with the Vitamix plunger. She has jumped on my son and scratched him on his arms before, while he was trying to play with a toy with her. If she is sleeping and startled, she will growl and jump at them, which scares them. I have tried explaining that they need to be nice to Penny, but they don't realize that jumping on the couch while she is sleeping on it is not being nice, KWIM? It's just been very difficult to enforce because neither one understands and neither one is behaving appropriately, and sometimes I don't know who to discipline (the kid for scaring the dog, or the dog for growling and jumping at the kid) because they are both wrong.

Other than the kids, DH or I don't yell at the dog or hit her in any way, but you'd never know it from how she behaves. I got a "clicker" (push a button and makes a little click sound) cause I read in one of my books it helps with training. But she is scared of the clicker. I only clicked it a few times, but now even when I give her a treat (for going outside, for stopping barking at the mailman, etc.) she runs away and hides under the bed. It's been weeks since I even used the clicker! When we trained her on the electric fence, she got one shock and then refused to go outside for days.

I just feel like she is not a happy dog. She is very cuddly and loves attention, but as she has gotten older she has become more and more nervous about everything. She does go outside with us all the time but just spends time on the porch pacing and barking. I do take her for walks but she lunges and barks at the cars driving by and it worries me.

My family, who has the same breed dog a few years younger who doesn't have any of these problems, seem to think it's nothing in particular we did. I am not the world's greatest trainer, but I didn't do anything to traumatize Penny either.

My DH wants to rehome her :( He is sick of cleaning up her accidents, sick of her barking waking up the kids, and sick of taking care of her. He is angry because he perceives Penny's behavior as limiting for DS having friends over, etc. (He's right, I would not trust Penny around other people's kids). It's gotten to the point where he doesn't make much of an effort to pet her or be nice to her anymore. Back when we first got her, she would sit in his lap all the time while he worked on his computer. Now she never does.

I am completely against rehoming Penny. She has not done anything wrong, and she is our dog. But at the same time, if she was a person I would think she needs a psychiatrist or something, she just doesn't seem happy a lot of the time. I mentioned hiring a dog trainer and DH thought that was just "hiring people to deal with the problem [I] created". Doggie Prozac or something? I just don't know how to help her at this point. She is 6 years old but her breed is very healthy and long lived and I can see her living another 6-10 years.

psimpson3-5
12-21-2015, 01:58 PM
Well, you've pretty much described my rescue Pembroke Welsh Corgi exactly. He was kept in a basement in a crate for the first 3.5 years of his life. He was NEVER socialized with people or other dogs. His owner was so lazy she barely walked him and the dog goes to the bathroom immediately upon going outside. When she was "done" owning a dog, she decided to put Sammy down, apparently a friend convinced her to give him up to a rescue agency however.

I was so desperate for a corgi and his face was so bright; I "needed" Sammy immediately upon meeting him. I always thought I could change him. I tried and tried but I can't. I've hired home trainers, but I just don't have the money to keep them. He hoards bones, trembles uncontrollably several times a day, is terrified of people and other dogs, has fear aggression, pees & poops in our home frequently, loathes being outside to the point where he will break out of his collar and run home, and hates our son. Sammy is fine if no one bothers him, but since he's gotten old, it's gotten much worse. He has such a hard time getting up from what we call his "sleep coma" (serious deep sleep), that he essentially makes a biting motion while growling but doesn't bite per say when someone wakes up or walks near him.

When I became pregnant with my son, we put Sammy on prozac. Yes, actual generic prozac, which is surprisingly very cheap from our supermarket pharmacy. The vet prescribed it. It just seems to make Sammy extremely tired. I don't think it does much else. I sincerely hate to admit this, but at this point Sammy is 14.5 years old and we are basically waiting for him to give us a reason (serious health issue) to have him put down or for him to die naturally. I realize some will take offense to this statement, but Sammy is so miserable and we are just fed up.

What makes things even worse for me is that I love dogs. I grew up owning several dogs. My son loves dogs, even though Sammy is so mean to him. DH however, claims that Sammy has "ruined" him. He says he never wants to own another dog. I too feel much differently about dogs if I really think about it. I will never rescue another dog because of our experience. If I want a dog, I will chose a breed and find a reputable breeder. I will need to raise my own puppy with proper training. I don't think I will be able to invest the amount of time necessary until my children are older. I say this now and Sammy is still alive. I wonder how I will feel once Sammy is gone.

As for your situation, try the Prozac, see if it makes a difference, but if the dog is unhappy and your DH is unhappy, it might be time to consider re-homing. I regret not doing this when Sammy was younger. Sammy has definitely changed our opinions about dogs.

basil
12-21-2015, 02:14 PM
Oh poor Sammy.
I just can't figure out why penny is like this. She was never abused. We socialized her a ton that first year. We did puppy classes at the humane society, frequent outings to petsmart, walks twice daily.

psimpson3-5
12-21-2015, 02:22 PM
Oh poor Sammy.
I just can't figure out why penny is like this. She was never abused. We socialized her a ton that first year. We did puppy classes at the humane society, frequent outings to petsmart, walks twice daily.

I think much like people, some dogs just have mental health issues. I wouldn't beat yourself up over it. I am very sorry you are going through this. I want to be honest with you about my experiences because Sammy has impacted our family very negatively. I didn't even bother to mention how difficult it is for us to go away without him. I used to be able to take him to the PetSmart PetsHotel (the only safe place, he could have a private room). Now they tell me they can't have Sammy there any longer because he can't get up fast enough....? No one can put a leash on Sammy but me.

I wish you the best. I hope the Prozac helps.

basil
12-21-2015, 02:35 PM
Penny has ironically always done ok when we go away. She has stayed at petsmart. Often she will stay with my parents and their dog though and I think she enjoys that. She stayed with them for 2 months last year when we had our house on the market. And aside from having accidents in their house she did ok. Sometimes if we go away together the two dogs board together and that makes it easier for her, I think.

She is really a sweet dog and I just know that she means well. She loves us and wants to protect us. But she is just so nervous all the time.

Meatball Mommie
12-21-2015, 03:00 PM
We have a "nervous nellie" too. We adopted her at around 2 years of age. She is a mixed breed...looks like a black lab puppy, but has a brindle coat and is only 30 lbs.

Sometimes I feel so bad for her - so just doesn't seem happy like other dogs lol! She definitely does the tucked tail, sad look, shaking all over thing. She has never snapped at anyone and only growls if you ring the doorbell. She is totally calm once the door is opened though. Very tolerant of petting and non-agressive generally. There are times when she obviously IS happy (loves to go to the beach, generally be outside if we are, and go for long walks) and she is very attached to me (and to a lesser extent one of my sons).

I think in your situation, where you are nervous or her snapping your own kids, I'd try to re-home her. Are your parents willing to take her in? It sounds like she was comfortable there. If they are tolerant of her potty issues, that might be the best scenario.

marymoo86
12-21-2015, 03:17 PM
random thought here

wonder if dogs like humans behavior can be affected by diet?

would switching to a grain free food potentially help?

just throwing something out there

catsnkid
12-21-2015, 03:23 PM
I would be looking into homeopathic things for calming her and also have a conversation with the vet. There are dogs on antidepressants for sure.

kdeunc
12-21-2015, 03:38 PM
We had a "nervous" German Shepherd. She never snapped or growled but she was very skittish. We put her on prozac and that seemed to help. She also had Xanax for thunderstorms. :) I would definitely try the drug option. Hope you are able to figure out a solution other than rehoming.

basil
12-21-2015, 03:38 PM
She has always been on grain free food, wet food mixed w plain chicken. Around the time I had my son, we tried to switch her to dry food (taste of the wild) but she lost two pounds out of stubbornness and required a $500 bet work up and then the vet suggested just going back to the food that she will eat. She won't even eat the food without the chicken

StantonHyde
12-21-2015, 04:09 PM
My former dog--Golden Retriever mix--had to be on Prozac for thunder storms and when I had my second child. It really helped.

When the kids started to get old enough to bug him, I had an animal behaviorist come for a consult. She basically trained me to look for his anxiety signs and to keep the kids away from him. In our case, I trained the kids more than the dog--when he growls, you walk away. He never even came close to biting.

I think a behaiviorist could help with the other nervousness issues--I would be most concerned about not going outside. Even little dogs need exercise and Penny sounds like she could use 1-2 good walks a day. Some little dogs just never get fully potty trained.

Talk to your vet about meds, work with a behaviorist, and then see where that gets you. You are right. She should stay with you and I think she can. On the flip side, if she is really freaked out by the kids and would prefer a quiet house with 2 adults and another dog--then maybe that would be best for her! It would take work to find the right home, but it can be done. I got my dog because his family was moving out of the country and they didn't want to put him through the quarantine requirements.

Good luck!!

California
12-21-2015, 04:38 PM
Interesting that your dog does fine at your parents' place. We have a nervous dog, and he does much, much better with a dominant dog in his life. He relaxes when he knows there's another dog in charge. Maybe your dog likes being around another dog, and that's why she does better when you're on vacation. I know you don't want to rehome her. Would she be OK having your parents' dog over for a visit so you can see if it helps her behavior?

mackmama
12-21-2015, 08:27 PM
Our dog is very neurotic and nervous with a lot of separation anxiety. He is now 6yo and has been like that since we got him from a breeder at 10 weeks. I even called the breeder a few weeks after we got him and asked if they had socialized him (breeders are supposed to let puppies have "alone time" from their litter mates) since I was seeing anxiety signs even then. The breeder said they didn't and, well, it shows. We thought about returning him to the breeder then but just didn't have it in us to do it. We have tried trainers, a behaviorist, and 3 different antidepressants with our vet. None made much of a difference. It is a bummer since we are HUGE dog lovers, and I'm now wary about any future pet ownership. We have talked about re-homing him at times but never seriously - we just couldn't do it to him and approach dog ownership as a lifelong commitment. He is so so sweet at heart and so good with DC thank goodness.

flashy09
12-21-2015, 11:01 PM
Maybe try a Thundershirt?

http://www.thundershirt.com

doberbrat
12-21-2015, 11:58 PM
a dog is more or less born with its temperment. Its behavior can be changed, but its basic underlying personality will remain the same. A dog's behavior can be affected by its diet, chemicals in its environment etc. just like people.

Based on what you're describing, if you came to me for training, I'd advise you to strongly consider rehoming the dog. What I'm 'hearing' is that she has learned that she isnt safe in your home. A 10lb dog that gets stepped on or fallen on by even a small child is in real danger of being hurt. So I can totally understand that if she's sleeping soundly and one of the kids makes a sudden move near her that she comes out in attack mode. She's going to protect herself first and ask questions later. I wouldnt be surprised if the next time she sees a plastic item in your dd's hands, she starts growling. If when she jumps in the kids she scratches them, her nails are too long. cutting them weekly and then sanding away any rough edges will take care of that problem.

Prozac and other drugs can work amazingly well in dogs but just like in people, some respond better than others and in order for it to really work, it must be coupled with behavior modification. If you and your dh arent willing/able to have a professional help you work through some of the issues in addition to the drugs, then the next 10+ years could be very very long indeed for everyone involved.