Awkward/difficult situation with Christmas...need thoughts/opinions

[vludmilla]

DH and I are hosting Christmas Day dinner for our families. DH's parents, and two brothers will be there with their families along with some of my extended family. The issue is that one of DH's brothers is not married to the mother of his son and wants to exclude her from Christmas at our house. While this would be fine in most situations, this feels different because but the mother of the son has been included in major family gatherings (i.e. Christmas and Thanksgiving) for many years (the son is 16 so it has been a long time). She attended our wedding 13 years ago (which involved very expensive overseas travel for her). She was just at Thanksgiving at SIL's house month ago and, frankly, I can't remember a family holiday in which she wasn't included if she was in town.

So, DH and I like this woman and feel badly about this situation. We don't want her to feel excluded by us and we don't want her to be alone on Christmas (she is from another country and has no family or friends here). We are concerned that, possibly (based on some of what he said), DH's brother, when telling her that she was excluded from Christmas, made it sound like the issue was our small house which is most certainly not the case. We would welcome her. Of course, DH feels allegiance to his brother but he also feels like his brother is being a bit unfair and self centered. For example, DH's brother has apparently not asked his 16 year old son how he feels about excluding his mother from Christmas dinner.

How would you handle this? Would you call her and say anything to convey that she is appreciated and welcome by us? It feels like a no win situation.

[TwinFoxes]

What would your BIL do if you said "sorry, but it's our house, and we'd like her to invite her."

Also, why are they broken up? My answer would change if it's a normal "it just didn't work out" breakup vs a "found out she has a secret lover" breakup.

[Green_Tea]

What would your BIL do if you said "sorry, but it's our house, and we'd like her to invite her."

Also, why are they broken up? My answer would change if it's a normal "it just didn't work out" breakup vs a "found out she has a secret lover" breakup.

This, exactly. Barring any secret lovers it's your house, your guest list.

[vludmilla]

They haven't been together for many years, I think more than ten years. To our collective family knowledge, she has done nothing terrible. He hasn't alleged that she's done anything. She has been very respectful at all family gathering and brings foods and helps to clean up. She is very generous with her time and gifts. She's a classy person, he just doesn't like her and I think wishes she'd just go away. It's kind of mysterious to all of us why he can't stand her as she never says anything untoward and she gives him space at these family gatherings.

As to what he'd do if we invited her anyway...he said he wouldn't come to Christmas!

[TwinFoxes]

Ah, okay. Well, my answer changes somewhat. I thought this was a recent breakup, and she hadn't had time to make plans not to come, not a 10 year breakup. I'm more sympathetic to your BIL now. Not everyont wants to see their ex at every family holiday for 10 years. It'd be nice if he'd allow her to come, since they have a kid together. But, I get his point. Could you maybe compromise, tell him you understand his feelings, but would like to do this one last event? Then ease off throughout the year, so maybe she will understand when she's not invited next year? I can see why this is a difficult situation. Good luck!

[trcy]

It seems like she is 'part of the family' even though it is not by blood or marriage, if that makes sense. I would ask him (or have your DH ask, since it is his brother) why he doesn't want her invited. If it's not a good reason, I would still invite her. It would be his choice not to come.

[blisstwins]

It seems like she is 'part of the family' even though it is not by blood or marriage, if that makes sense. I would ask him (or have your DH ask, since it is his brother) why he doesn't want her invited. If it's not a good reason, I would still invite her. It would be his choice not to come.

He needs to grow up. They have a child in common and it is a day of celebration of family, not living together or vacationing together. People invite all kinds of people to holidays because it is the decent thing to do. Your brother is putting you in a rough situation and it is pretty mean to his son too. I would invite her and let the chips fall where they may. Sorry for the stress on you.

[vludmilla]

I think the thing is that she is living in the US where she has no family or friends (home country is Brazil). She is living here on sequential 6 month visas to be with her son. She could just keep her son in Brazil and BIL wouldn't get to see his son much but she made a lot of financial sacrifices to come here to live with her son.

[HannaAddict]

It seems like she is 'part of the family' even though it is not by blood or marriage, if that makes sense. I would ask him (or have your DH ask, since it is his brother) why he doesn't want her invited. If it's not a good reason, I would still invite her. It would be his choice not to come.

Yes, this. Going forward you cannot include her and maybe someone can talk about it but to exclude her this year because of him seems wrong and if he wants to sit home and sulk, I'd let him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[ncat]

Will your nephew stay home with her if she is excluded? It really sounds like you need to invite her (and have a serious talk with BIL)

[vludmilla]

No, my nephew would come even if she didn't.

For those of you saying that you would exclude her next year but not this year, what is your thinking about the distinction between this year and next? I think the main thing is that she's been included partly for her son's sake and partly because she has literally no one else here to spend it with as her life (outside of her son) is really in Brazil and she didn't start living her with him until he was already in middle school so not a great time to make friends with the families of his friends.

[vludmilla]

Yes, this. Going forward you cannot include her and maybe someone can talk about it but to exclude her this year because of him seems wrong and if he wants to sit home and sulk, I'd let him.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

Bearing in mind that I want to include her, what is your thinking about why next year is different from this year?

[lalasmama]

They haven't been together for many years, I think more than ten years. To our collective family knowledge, she has done nothing terrible. He hasn't alleged that she's done anything. She has been very respectful at all family gathering and brings foods and helps to clean up. She is very generous with her time and gifts. She's a classy person, he just doesn't like her and I think wishes she'd just go away. It's kind of mysterious to all of us why he can't stand her as she never says anything untoward and she gives him space at these family gatherings.

As to what he'd do if we invited her anyway...he said he wouldn't come to Christmas!
Any chance he finds her being there "stifling" to his dating life or moving on with another long term relationship? Or any chance and his current SO want to make an "announcement" of some sort?

DH's mom and dad divorced when DH was 17; dad had another woman on the side. He still invited mom to his house every.freaking.Christmas so she wouldn't be alone... Even after his second marriage ended and the third one began. A true example of "putting the kids first," his wife may have hated MIL being there, but FIL wanted the kids' family together each year.

Barring some sort of anticipated announcement, I'd invite her.

[hwin708]

I would include her and let her know she is welcome. This year, next year, and ever after.

If your brother does not want to share holidays with his ex any more, that is certainly his prerogative. But while I would wish to support my sibling, I would also wish to support my nephew who likely wants both his parents there. Why does the wishes of the brother trump the nephew?

If your brother does not want her there, he should have that discussion with her honestly. Tell her he would no longer like to share the holiday and would like to work on a plan for rotated holidays with their son. He should not try to dis-invite her on your behalf by claiming your house cannot fit her. That's crazy. None of your posts indicate that she is an unhinged, disrespectful person. If he tells her he does not want her there, then chances are, she will choose not to come. But letting her know that you are not the source of this revoked invite, and that you will always see her as a kind of member of your family as the mother of your nephew, is totally acceptable.

I would let her know that she was welcome, let your brother know you had spoken to her, and then tell him if they want to work out a different arrangement, that is between them. You are not going to be in the middle of his drama.

[vludmilla]

Any chance he finds her being there "stifling" to his dating life or moving on with another long term relationship? Or any chance and his current SO want to make an "announcement" of some sort?



I think it'd be more understandable if he had a SO, but he does not. I do think he views it as "stifling", as you say, to his moving on with another relationship but he has nearly not dated at all. He's never mentioned a new person to anyone in the family in all this time.

I do wish he would consider my nephew more as I assume he probably doesn't want to leave his mom home alone.

[BunnyBee]

They haven't been together for many years, I think more than ten years. To our collective family knowledge, she has done nothing terrible. He hasn't alleged that she's done anything. She has been very respectful at all family gathering and brings foods and helps to clean up. She is very generous with her time and gifts. She's a classy person, he just doesn't like her and I think wishes she'd just go away. It's kind of mysterious to all of us why he can't stand her as she never says anything untoward and she gives him space at these family gatherings.

As to what he'd do if we invited her anyway...he said he wouldn't come to Christmas!

Sounds like a win-win then with his attitude!

[Liziz]

I would include her and let her know she is welcome. This year, next year, and ever after.

If your brother does not want to share holidays with his ex any more, that is certainly his prerogative. But while I would wish to support my sibling, I would also wish to support my nephew who likely wants both his parents there. Why does the wishes of the brother trump the nephew?

If your brother does not want her there, he should have that discussion with her honestly. Tell her he would no longer like to share the holiday and would like to work on a plan for rotated holidays with their son. He should not try to dis-invite her on your behalf by claiming your house cannot fit her. That's crazy. None of your posts indicate that she is an unhinged, disrespectful person. If he tells her he does not want her there, then chances are, she will choose not to come. But letting her know that you are not the source of this revoked invite, and that you will always see her as a kind of member of your family as the mother of your nephew, is totally acceptable.

I would let her know that she was welcome, let your brother know you had spoken to her, and then tell him if they want to work out a different arrangement, that is between them. You are not going to be in the middle of his drama.

:yeahthat: You said exactly what I was trying to say much more elegantly! I agree with this.

[vludmilla]

Sounds like a win-win then with his attitude!

Ha ha. Yeah, I was really looking forward to her bringing food and helping to clean up. She's great with that and a nice, cosmopolitan person to boot. He, on the other hand, while highly educated (PhD researcher/professor) will not bring food, be as conversational, or be nearly as helpful.

[JBaxter]

ITS CHRISTMAS you know the celebration of Christ's birth. One day of the year when you heart should be open to joy he wants to be Mr Grinch? If he can give you a reason ( like she torture little animals) they you could entertain breaking tradition of having your nephews Mom at your Christmas gathering ~ and as you said its not like she's burden extra hands are always a help.

[ellies mom]

I'm in the invite her this year and every following year and let BIL decide if he still wants to go camp.

[Simon]

I'm in the invite her this year and every following year and let BIL decide if he still wants to go camp.

I agree that she sounds like a lovely person (well mannered guest) who has no other family nearby who is doing her part to keep BIL in nephew's life. I would support and encourage her to attend family gatherings as a show of support to nephew and because it just plain sounds as though you like her and look forward to her coming.

[lalasmama]

I think it'd be more understandable if he had a SO, but he does not. I do think he views it as "stifling", as you say, to his moving on with another relationship but he has nearly not dated at all. He's never mentioned a new person to anyone in the family in all this time.

I do wish he would consider my nephew more as I assume he probably doesn't want to leave his mom home alone.

Having kids in stifling... especially when the "former" families have never fully separated. (Hello, son-of-my-husband's-ex-wife staying the night with us! Or me and her coaching "our" DD in labor... Having DD over for drinks when she turned 21, and having drinks with her mother as well. Crap, her DH called my DH when she had an affair! I could go on with weirdness!) At any rate, any woman (man?) who comes into their lives should understand the need to be with family for the holiday, and that, in this case, that means that the ex will be there. Stifling? Yup. Awkward? It can be. But it's worth it, in the right situations.

IMHO, BIL needs to suck it up and be a grown-a$$ man about it. I mean, unless nephew is saying, "This is weird, I can't handle it, I don't want mom there!" I think she should be invited!

[TwinFoxes]

No, my nephew would come even if she didn't.

For those of you saying that you would exclude her next year but not this year, what is your thinking about the distinction between this year and next? I think the main thing is that she's been included partly for her son's sake and partly because she has literally no one else here to spend it with as her life (outside of her son) is really in Brazil and she didn't start living her with him until he was already in middle school so not a great time to make friends with the families of his friends.

(I'll preface this by saying I haven't had any experience with ex-drama since I was a teen)

A couple of reasons. The first is I assume your DH probably wants to see his brother at Christmas. If not, and he's fine with never seeing his brother on the holiday, then I think you should continue to include her next year. But, I also kind of feel that after ten years, it might be healthy for her to have a life outside of her son. Maybe she could even plan a trip back home with her DS (maybe not possible because of visas?)

I think Hwin's advice is the best. Tell him to deal with his own mess.

[Philly Mom]

I'm in the invite her this year and every following year and let BIL decide if he still wants to go camp.

Me too. At least every year nephew wants to come.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[nfceagles]

Tell BIL that if she doesn't come he gets to bring X, Y, and Z dish and help clean up after dinner.

I would invite her. If this has been an ongoing issue of needing more space he should have dealt with this year's ago or at least earlier in the season. And I agree, your house, your guest list.

[magnoliaparadise]

I would totally invite her.

Frankly, BIL is sounding really immature. They share a child together.

If it were me, I would be polite and tell BIL that she is coming and if he refused to come, I would consider it his choice and go on with the party. If he wants to make an adverse decision that affects others, he should only be able to make it about his own actions, not yours (ie telling you not to invite her).

And I would tell him that if he doesn't want to invite her next year, he can have it in his home and invite whomever he chooses.

Good luck with it all!!!!

[gatorsmom]

I know this answer will be the oddball but I think you should respect your bIL's wishes. Family should make us feel safe, respected and valued. There are 2 sides to every story and you will never truly know all that happened between them. I wouldn't get involved in their drama. I would invite BIL and tell him to bring whoever he wants to the dinner.

My family has had a Christmas Eve dinner together for 50 years. We have seen boyfriends, wives and husbands come and go and the relatives' choices are always respected. It's sometimes hard when someone gets a divorce and particularly when the new wife or husband isn't as friendly or nice as the first one. But we all suck it up and try to be kind and welcoming to the new person. It's comforting to know family won't try to get involved in something that is painful and is none of their business.

[Binkandabee]

I get that BIL may not want her at his family's Christmas, but HE needs to tell her he is the one who doesn't want her there and not use you as a scapegoat. Seems very simple to me. BIL has a talk with her and life goes on. I wouldn't consider going behind BIL's back and inviting her anyway if he talks to her, but I also wouldn't allow him to place the blame on me for excluding her, either.

[gamma]

We have a large family with quite a few ex-in-laws who come to holidays and celebrations so their children don't have to choose one parent over the other. I would have no problem with my ex SIL coming, but it should be handled mutually by the couple and their children. What I would have an issue with, is BIL throwing me and my husband under the bus, as an excuse to stop inviting her. That I wouldn't allow! It would become my husband's job to deal with his brother and straighten the situation out.

[carolinacool]

I know this answer will be the oddball but I think you should respect your bIL's wishes. Family should make us feel safe, respected and valued. There are 2 sides to every story and you will never truly know all that happened between them. I wouldn't get involved in their drama. I would invite BIL and tell him to bring whoever he wants to the dinner.

My family has had a Christmas Eve dinner together for 50 years. We have seen boyfriends, wives and husbands come and go and the relatives' choices are always respected. It's sometimes hard when someone gets a divorce and particularly when the new wife or husband isn't as friendly or nice as the first one. But we all suck it up and try to be kind and welcoming to the new person. It's comforting to know family won't try to get involved in something that is painful and is none of their business.

This is what happened to my friend of mine. Now, they didn't have any children, so I see how that changes the situation. But in the case of my friend, her own family is very, very dysfunctional. Her ex's family was very much "her" family. Her sister-in-law was her best friend, her mother-in-law was absolutely a second mother. Those first couple of holidays were very hard on her. But her husband's family was not going to cause more drama by inviting his ex to family celebrations, and plus I think he had someone new in the picture anyway (who's not as nice).

Since there's a minor child involved, I lean toward inviting her. Although I do think your DH needs to handle it with his brother. But once your nephew turns 18 in a couple of years, I'm not sure I would continue consistently inviting her. Yes, your house your invite, but sometimes I don't think it's always a simple as that.

[JustMe]

If I am understanding this right, she has come to most family celebrations since the divorce several years ago and not your BIL is saying he does not want to come? I am very curious as to why BIL is feeling this way now after all of these years. That may or may not play into my decision about if she should be invited or not.

[carolinacool]

That's a good point. Maybe he's just gone along with it since their son was six when they broke up, but now that he's 16, your BIL could think that he'll understand it better. And you said your nephew would come either way. So has your BIL ever brought another date? Do you think if he might want to this year?

[AnnieW625]

I haven't read all of the responses past page 1, but if there is no bad blood between your BIL, yourself and your DH I would want to respect your BIL's wishes and I would be upfront with the EX about the situation as well. Has your BIL filled you in on any of the issues as to why he doesn't want her there? Is he planning to bring a date or is she going to bring a date and he doesn't want to see her with someone else? Maybe they were trying to rekindle their relationship and it didn't work and one of them still has hard feelings. Maybe she is a constant reminder of what went wrong in their relationship and be just doesn't want to see her. I think if this has been going on for the past 10 yrs. maybe it has finally come to a breaking point and he just doesn't want to spend the holiday with her. Good luck, and definitely update us as to what happens.

[mmommy]

First off, BIL is way too late to address this for this year. I'd have DH tell him so.
Second, this woman is really just as much a part of your family as BIL is at this point. BIL can decide to open up to your DH about what is going on or not, but he needs to understand that for all of these years this woman has been participating in family events just as much as he has. She has relationships with all of the rest of the family, not just him, and while he's allowed to have feelings, those feelings may not be shared by everyone and he might not get what he wants.
I do think it odd that neither one of them has moved on to another relationship. But there has been so much time that I think BIL should be told that if he were to do so, his new partner would be welcome to come to events too. And that same message should be relayed to his ex.

[ray7694]

I am divorced and usually what it boils down to is control and getting back at the person. It is really odd that all of a sudden she can't come. The sad thing is very few divorced ppl can attend functions as friends. I don't feel comfortable around my ex because so much bad history. I would want to know his reason but in the end if he wants to cut her out your family may have to as he is family.

[sweetsue98]

Why all of a sudden change of heart? I would tell your BIL it's not about him but about his son.

[JElaineB]

I think the whole point of difference in recommendations this year vs. next year is that it is TOO LATE for her to make any other plans for this year. She has no one else and I am assuming she would like to spend Christmas with her son who will be at your house. After Christmas your BIL needs to tell her that she won't be invited to future family functions because he doesn't want her there, and she needs to make other plans at the holidays. That may involve her bringing her son to Brazil, so I hope your BIL is prepared for that.

[California]

Personally, after so many years of inclusion, I also wouldn't feel comfortable excluding her. Especially with such late notice. Would your BIL be more understanding if it was expressed as thinking long term about the relationship you want to have with your nephew? You don't want your nephew to feel like his mother is not welcome. He will be 18 soon and at that point he can choose for himself where he wants to spend Christmas dinner. If your exSIL isn't included, you may not see your nephew for Christmas.

[aa2mama]

I think you will likely cause long-term damage to your relationship with BIL to invite her against his wishes. To a certain degree it isn't your business why his feelings to inviting her have changed but obviously something his caused him to feel so strongly about this after tolerating it for many, many years. I would insist that he needs to man up and take responsibility for this with her, but I think it would be incredibly disrespectful to invite her against his strongly stated wishes. DH and I have both been married before, and I think either of us would feel an incredible sense of betrayal if our families insisted on inviting our ex against our wishes. Yes, they need to work out sharing their son for the holiday, but BIL needs to be given the freedom to distance himself from a failed relationship.