Potential controversy at school - could use advice

[missym]

DD2 is in 4th grade. Their big project for the semester is called Biography Bash. The kids are supposed to pick a famous person, write a biographical essay, and give an oral report. They are encouraged to dress in character. It's always been a lot of fun. So this year, a boy in DD2's class has decided to do Hitler. He supposedly is reading Mein Kampf (he's 10, so I can't imagine he's getting much out of it).
Their teacher told him that wasn't an appropriate choice since it was supposed to be someone who changed the world for the better, etc. and he replied that Hitler is his hero. Supposedly he has his parents' permission to do the report. The teacher told him they'd have to meet with the principal about it.

I'm going to wait to see if the school is going to allow it before butting in, but I'm really torn about this. On the one hand, I think this boy is just doing it for attention, and I hate to justify that by making a stink. Theoretically, he could do a very informative report on Hitler and learn a lot. But it could so easily cross a line and be very bad, especially based on things he's already been saying about how Hitler was a great man, etc. Can you imagine if he walked in to school dressed as Hitler? Also, all the kids in DD2's class know that she's Jewish. Is a 10 year old capable of choosing Hitler just to be nasty to her? Or is he just picking the most shocking person he can think of? She is pretty incensed about the whole thing.

Oh, and DD2's choice? Anne Frank.

UPDATE: I just heard from her teacher, and she has emphatically told the student NO on the report. The school appears to be ready to back her up.

[wellyes]

Holy Moses, that's awful. I'm so sorry you have to deal with that.
War criminals are not appropriate choices, period.

[georgiegirl]

I would object. It's one thing to research someone like Hitler, but it's inappropriate to dress up like him. It's horribly offensive in general and specifically because DD is Jewish.

[KrisM]

I would also object. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Our school does something similar, called a Wax Museum. It's in 5th grade. Kids submit their top 3 choices of who they would like to be and the teacher gives them one of them. This way there are not any duplicates in a class and only a few in the entire grade.

[JBaxter]

I woulf never allow my son but did the original papers say that changed the world for the good or just a famous person. Ds 3 is a huge history buff and I've learned more about Hitler in the past 6 months than i ever wanted to know. If he is doing purely informational an how he turned our world upside down i wouldnt have a problem but if he is coming at it from how great he was then I'd have a real issue. Your school may be setting it's self up for a lawsuit

[SnuggleBuggles]

I think it's a terrible idea but what did the actual assignment say? You say it's supposed to be someone that changed the world for the better? Is that what the assignment came home saying? I'm just thinking through points and counterpoints that could come up.


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[missym]

I think it's a terrible idea but what did the actual assignment say? You say it's supposed to be someone that changed the world for the better? Is that what the assignment came home saying? I'm just thinking through points and counterpoints that could come up.

That's the thing - I believe the assignment was just verbally given in class, so I don't know what the wording was. If there was a sheet sent home, I haven't seen it. I think the school may have gotten themselves into a pickle with this one.

I guess if the school has to allow it, he could give his report to an empty room. We would certainly require that they excuse DD to the library during his report.

[jren]

I think it could be done well at the high school level, especially coupled with your DD's story on Anne Frank, if the two students worked together to tell a complete story of how a person like Hitler was able to rise to power and how it affected the people. From a 10 year old who is already stating Hitler was a hero? No.


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[TwinFoxes]

If ever there's a time to go to the mat, it is now. Schools have no obligation to let someone do a report on how great a man Hitler was. The Supreme Court has time and again maintained that students don't have the same free speech rights on campus. Including a decision just last week I think. Nope, nope, nope.

The administration needs to shut this down, and shut it down now. I don't care what the original assignment said. This isn't a matter of interpretation. You know what, Osama bin Laden, also not appropriate. Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin. These are not gray areas.

And I would be extremely upset if you were the only family protesting.

[anonomom]

Wow. That's really hard. The liberatarian/free speech side of me things that maybe he should be allowed to be horrible if he wants to be and that the school has no business censoring a kid. I'm assuming the objection is not viewpoint-neutral; if a child wanted to report on Hitler and how awful he was, would that be allowed? And if it isn't, are we, in trying to shield kids from talk of the Holocaust, inadvertently erasing/minimizing that history?


But the parent in me says it's 100% not ok for the school to indulge a child who intends to engage in hate speech, in any circumstance. It's a very fine line to draw and I would really hate to be in that teacher's shoes right now.

And good lord, who are this child's parents?

Maybe (possibly) a solution is to allow the child to do his report but require him (and, I guess, all of the children) to stick to the facts? No editorializing, no statements of approval of the killing of millions of human beings, etc. And by the way, it makes me incredibly sad that any 10yo would need to be reminded that genocide is a bad thing.

[missym]

Update: I just heard from her teacher, and she has emphatically told the student NO on the report. The school appears to be ready to back her up.

[mousemom]

I guess I feel differently about this. History is littered with controversial figures who had significant impacts on the world around them. I don't think kids should be barred from doing historical reports on the "bad guys" of history. Such a ban might include, depending on your viewpoint, confederate generals, Columbus, slave-owning founding fathers, etc. I also feel it is important for children to learn to listen to and debate people with opinions that differ from their own.

[AngB]

Update: I just heard from her teacher, and she has emphatically told the student NO on the report. The school appears to be ready to back her up.

Glad it's resolved.

Is this a new teacher? I'm surprised they didn't have 'no Hitler, etc.' in the directions, honestly. Hopefully they learn from this and include that next year.

[JustMe]

I am just reading this and so glad to see your update. I can't imagine a teacher or school justifying that this would be okay (especially the dressing up part), regardless of what the child's intentions were.

[Momit]

If ever there's a time to go to the mat, it is now. Schools have no obligation to let someone do a report on how great a man Hitler was. The Supreme Court has time and again maintained that students don't have the same free speech rights on campus. Including a decision just last week I think. Nope, nope, nope.

The administration needs to shut this down, and shut it down now. I don't care what the original assignment said. This isn't a matter of interpretation. You know what, Osama bin Laden, also not appropriate. Mussolini, Stalin, Idi Amin. These are not gray areas.

And I would be extremely upset if you were the only family protesting.

Agree with all of this. OP, I'm so sorry this has come up at your school. The boy sounds desperate for attention, or he thinks he's being funny. I can't imagine. I wonder if his parents knew what he was planning and what he was saying about Hitler. Somebody should be taking a field trip to the nearest Holocaust museum.

[Meatball Mommie]

Glad to see the update as well. I think that at that age, especially since the child seems to think highly of his choice, it is inappropriate. It is one thing to learn about a historical figure who committed heinous crimes, another completely to glorify said figure.

Our school does the "wax museum" thing too (5th grade). My sons were Ulysses S. Grant and George S. Patton. There may have been some parents offended by our sons' choices especially as we had the Pope, Malala and Anne Frank as well, but they don't have the same negative association as Hitler.

[JBaxter]

Really glad to here the teacher has the school backing her up. Missy will you give us an update on who is second choice is? I'm just curious to see.
Update: I just heard from her teacher, and she has emphatically told the student NO on the report. The school appears to be ready to back her up.

[BunnyBee]

No. Freedom of speech in schools is not absolute. Hate speech particularly should be restricted there. Good for the school.

And holy expletives on Hitler being his hero. Horrifying.

[missym]

Really glad to here the teacher has the school backing her up. Missy will you give us an update on who is second choice is? I'm just curious to see.

I shudder to think.

[MMMommy]

Good update and relieved to hear the school is backing the teacher up on this.

I'm surprised the child's parents would support the Hitler choice, especially when the child is glorifying Hitler. :thumbsdown:

[elbenn]

That is awful. I'm so glad the teacher is not allowing it.

[ett]

Good update and relieved to hear the school is backing the teacher up on this.

I'm surprised the child's parents would support the Hitler choice, especially when the child is glorifying Hitler. :thumbsdown:

:yeahthat:

Missy - I'm glad to hear the good update.

[ett]

I guess I feel differently about this. History is littered with controversial figures who had significant impacts on the world around them. I don't think kids should be barred from doing historical reports on the "bad guys" of history. Such a ban might include, depending on your viewpoint, confederate generals, Columbus, slave-owning founding fathers, etc. I also feel it is important for children to learn to listen to and debate people with opinions that differ from their own.

I wouldn't consider Hitler and the likes of him to be in the same category of "bad guys" as confederate generals or Columbus. And in light of OP's situation where the kid says Hitler is his hero and assignment including dressing as the person, just not appropriate at all.

[TwinFoxes]

I guess I feel differently about this. History is littered with controversial figures who had significant impacts on the world around them. I don't think kids should be barred from doing historical reports on the "bad guys" of history. Such a ban might include, depending on your viewpoint, confederate generals, Columbus, slave-owning founding fathers, etc. I also feel it is important for children to learn to listen to and debate people with opinions that differ from their own.

Sorry, no. I disagree. As a descendant of slaves, I still say Jefferson Davis is not in the same league as Hitler. I mean, come on! It's HITLER.

I have zero problem with an historically accurate report about Hitler. One in which Hitler is portrayed heroically absolutely should not be allowed to take place in a fifth grade class.

Missy, so glad to read your update.

[Tenasparkl]

Kids submit their top 3 choices of who they would like to be and the teacher gives them one of them. This way there are not any duplicates in a class and only a few in the entire grade.

It sounds like the school may need to move to something like this in the future to avoid this type of thing coming up again. DD just did a similar type of project but it specifically stated "heroes" and they each submitted two choices in case of duplicates (her class has lots of girls and nearly half of them chose Rosa Parks for their first pick). They were also encouraged to skip people that were already discussed recently in class that many kids would likely want to do like Lincoln, Washington and MLK.

I'm glad the school is backing the teacher up!

[123LuckyMom]

Sorry, no. I disagree. As a descendant of slaves, I still say Jefferson Davis is not in the same league as Hitler. I mean, come on! It's HITLER.

I have zero problem with an historically accurate report about Hitler. One in which Hitler is portrayed heroically absolutely should not be allowed to take place in a fifth grade class.

Missy, so glad to read your update.

I LOVED this response!

I completely agree, too, that researching Hitler is not the issue. Glorifying Hitler is the issue! Don't be so shocked that the child and his parents believe Hitler is a hero. Anti-semitism is alive and well in this country. Hate is alive and well. Look at our current political circus! I'm relieved to hear that the school shut the project down.


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[StantonHyde]

Our school avoids this by giving the kids a list of choices in a variety of areas: business, government, athletics, civil rights, aviation, etc. But they did have Al Capone (??). The kids submit their top 3 choices and the teachers then assign the child to the person. DD got the Wright Brothers.

[smilequeen]

Glad for the update. The wheel idea of Hitler as a hero leaves me speechless. Definitely would have been worth the fight for me.

[Indianamom2]

I'm normally not a rock-the-boat kind of person, but this isn't ok. It would be one thing if he was doing a factual report, but dressing as the character and calling him his "Hero"....not ok at all.

I will be very curious to hear who he ends up choosing.

[KpbS]

Let's hope his second choice isn't Stalin

[HannaAddict]

DD2 is in 4th grade. Their big project for the semester is called Biography Bash. The kids are supposed to pick a famous person, write a biographical essay, and give an oral report. They are encouraged to dress in character. It's always been a lot of fun. So this year, a boy in DD2's class has decided to do Hitler. He supposedly is reading Mein Kampf (he's 10, so I can't imagine he's getting much out of it).
Their teacher told him that wasn't an appropriate choice since it was supposed to be someone who changed the world for the better, etc. and he replied that Hitler is his hero. Supposedly he has his parents' permission to do the report. The teacher told him they'd have to meet with the principal about it.

I'm going to wait to see if the school is going to allow it before butting in, but I'm really torn about this. On the one hand, I think this boy is just doing it for attention, and I hate to justify that by making a stink. Theoretically, he could do a very informative report on Hitler and learn a lot. But it could so easily cross a line and be very bad, especially based on things he's already been saying about how Hitler was a great man, etc. Can you imagine if he walked in to school dressed as Hitler? Also, all the kids in DD2's class know that she's Jewish. Is a 10 year old capable of choosing Hitler just to be nasty to her? Or is he just picking the most shocking person he can think of? She is pretty incensed about the whole thing.

Oh, and DD2's choice? Anne Frank.

UPDATE: I just heard from her teacher, and she has emphatically told the student NO on the report. The school appears to be ready to back her up.

This was just an episode of Shameless.


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[bisous]

Thank goodness! Sounds like many classrooms have structures in place to prevent just that sort of thing. Hopefully your DD's teacher will adopt similar measures so there is none of this worry. I am worried about that child. He's too young to be so messed up! Hopefully he'll get some good history lessons to set himself straight.

[mommy111]

DD2 is in 4th grade. Their big project for the semester is called Biography Bash. The kids are supposed to pick a famous person, write a biographical essay, and give an oral report. They are encouraged to dress in character. It's always been a lot of fun. So this year, a boy in DD2's class has decided to do Hitler. He supposedly is reading Mein Kampf (he's 10, so I can't imagine he's getting much out of it).
Their teacher told him that wasn't an appropriate choice since it was supposed to be someone who changed the world for the better, etc. and he replied that Hitler is his hero. Supposedly he has his parents' permission to do the report. The teacher told him they'd have to meet with the principal about it.

I'm going to wait to see if the school is going to allow it before butting in, but I'm really torn about this. On the one hand, I think this boy is just doing it for attention, and I hate to justify that by making a stink. Theoretically, he could do a very informative report on Hitler and learn a lot. But it could so easily cross a line and be very bad, especially based on things he's already been saying about how Hitler was a great man, etc. Can you imagine if he walked in to school dressed as Hitler? Also, all the kids in DD2's class know that she's Jewish. Is a 10 year old capable of choosing Hitler just to be nasty to her? Or is he just picking the most shocking person he can think of? She is pretty incensed about the whole thing.

Oh, and DD2's choice? Anne Frank.

UPDATE: I just heard from her teacher, and she has emphatically told the student NO on the report. The school appears to be ready to back her up.
I am so sorry you are even having to worry about this with your daughter. This should not happen, what a messed up world we live in!! I cannot imagine what kind of parents would encourage their kids to view Hitler as a hero

[♥ms.pacman♥]

oh my goodness! i cannot believe he said he was his hero (and that parents were okay with that?). just saw the update re: teacher not allowing it, glad to hear. hopefully that shuts that down quickly. so sorry for your DD (and that she has to deal with this) ...that breaks my heart :(

i am so relieved for you that teacher vetoed it from the get-go. i totally see your point about not wanting to be "that" parent who brings it up and also not wanting to add fuel to the fire so that he gets more attention. as a minority, as a female, i feel like i have to be super careful to not raise issues about anything so that i'm not perceived as "whining", so then people don't go off complaining that "everything has to be so PC these days." i'm all for freedom of speech, but seriously, this goes beyond that...this is more like a personal attack it sounds like. do people not realize that many students have relatives who died in the Holocaust??

like a PP, at our school the 5th graders do a "Wax Museum" for the school open house and students dress up as someone from history and act the role. i saw MLK, George Washington, Thomas Jefferson, etc. we're in a pretty diverse school..I cannot see somebody being allowed to dress up as Hitler, there would be an uproar for sure.

[hwin708]

This was just an episode of Shameless.


Sent from my iPhone using TapatalkExactly what I was thinking.

And that show goes out of their way to present completely over-the-top, shocking scenarios. Reading someone describing virtually the same thing happening in real life days later... wow.

[missym]

Exactly what I was thinking.

And that show goes out of their way to present completely over-the-top, shocking scenarios. Reading someone describing virtually the same thing happening in real life days later... wow.

I hadn't heard of that show, but after reading the episode recap, I wonder if this boy's family watches it. That's the most benign explanation I've come up with for this whole situation.

[minnie-zb]

This was just an episode of Shameless.


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I thought the same thing. Interesting coincidence.

[trcy]

I hadn't heard of that show, but after reading the episode recap, I wonder if this boy's family watches it. That's the most benign explanation I've come up with for this whole situation.

I was thinking the same thing.
OP, I am glad the teacher shut it down.


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[oneplustwo]

Our elementary has a big biography project for fifth graders every year. The project is presented as picking someone who had a positive impact, or something like that. The kids get a long list of famous from whom to choose, from current professional athletes to Leonardo DaVinci, etc. Students list in order of preference their top ten choices and then get assigned a person from that list (that way they make sure not to end up with 50 Anne Franks and 50 Michael Jordans). If they would like to do someone who is not on the list, they must write a short essay explaining why they want to do that person for the project, and bring in one age-appropriate book on that person that would be used for research. The 5th grade teachers all review those proposals and have final say. It's a great way to provide some safe parameters to the project and avoid exactly this kind of scenario. Not exactly a help for the current situation but Missy, maybe you can suggest it for the future.

[oneplustwo]

I would also object. Hopefully it doesn't come to that.

Our school does something similar, called a Wax Museum. It's in 5th grade. Kids submit their top 3 choices of who they would like to be and the teacher gives them one of them. This way there are not any duplicates in a class and only a few in the entire grade.

I just saw this. Our school makes sure that there are no duplicates in the entire 5th grade of the school (100-125 kids). On the big day, the kids are stationed around a soccer field at school, arranged by their subject's date of birth. It's a big deal and so much fun for parents and kids alike ~ the kids all have some spiels they read (or recite from memory) as they speak in character to the parents who roam around visiting each kid.

[KrisM]

I just saw this. Our school makes sure that there are no duplicates in the entire 5th grade of the school (100-125 kids). On the big day, the kids are stationed around a soccer field at school, arranged by their subject's date of birth. It's a big deal and so much fun for parents and kids alike ~ the kids all have some spiels they read (or recite from memory) as they speak in character to the parents who roam around visiting each kid.

That is really cool! I think our smaller elementary schools don't have duplicates, but we have 175=200 per grade. DS1 was Bill Gates and was stationed next to Steve Jobs. They do half of the kids at one time and then the other half after. No duplicates per half.