Does your 8 y.o. Know who Caitlyn Jenner is (and who she was previously)?

[2ndtimearound]

Does your 8 y.o. know that Caitlyn Jenner is a famous (transgender?) woman? If yes, did they know who Bruce Jenner was prior to the transition? Perhaps to the larger question-- Do you think a kid is ready to have transgender explained to them BEFORE they know about the mechanics of intercourse?

[mmommy]

My 6 yo doesn't know who Jenner is or about the mechanics of intercourse, but she does know what transgender means. It doesn't really have anything to do with intercourse, so I'm not sure why that would matter. I think the appropriate timing of these conversations is very family and community specific.

[citymama]

My 10 yr old doesn't have any clue who Caitlyn Jenner is. She knows transgender adults we are friends with (but doesn't know they're TG since it's never come up) and has one 8 yr old friend who identifies as trans. They have no problem referring to him as a he even though they once knew him as a she. I don't think they need to know the mechanics of sex because a) being trans is largely about gender identification (the trans women we know are both w female partners and always liked women!) and b) if the questions get more anatomical, my kids know about male and female anatomy, even the 5 yr old.

[123LuckyMom]

My almost 4 year old and 7 year old don't know who Caitlyn Jenner is, but they both know about transgender people, so no, I don't think 8 is too young. It's a very simple explanation. Transgender issues have nothing to do with intercourse. You don't even have to mention genitalia. How about, "sometimes, not very often, but sometimes, a girl is born as a boy or a boy is born as a girl. They know they're really the other, and with some hard work, they can change. These people are called transgendered (or trans), and you'll probably meet someone who is trans some day." If your kids ask questions about details you can explain that they have to change their outside bodies to match their inside selves so the world can see them as they know they are. You can get as detailed about those changes as you feel is appropriate, but even a three year old can understand those simple explanations.


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[mnj77]

I doubt my nine-year-old knows who Caitlyn Jenner is, but I wouldn't hesitate to explain it to her. She knows about sex too, but like pp said I would not mention sex in my explanation because it's more about a person's gender identity than it is about sex. Many transgender people feel that they are in the wrong body as children, long before they have any thoughts about sex.

[Melaine]

My nine year olds wouldn't have a clue about Jenner, but they really don't know many, if any, celebrities. We have briefly discussed the issue but I'm not sure if they would remember.

I have to say, a few months ago we had the talk about sex and it was such a relief. I feel like we are able to talk about everything more easily now that it's out in the open. I agree that sex doesn't need to come into the transgender conversation but having had that conversation has shed light on other topics for us. Talking about love, marriage, dating, modesty, commitment, life choices....a lot of those "big topics" are a lot easier now that they have a reference point for sex. I'm really glad we had the talk kind of on the young side.

[american_mama]

I just asked and my nearly 8 year old did not know. My 11 year old said she knew, but then got it wrong (saying Caitlyn Jenner was half-sister to the Kardashian sisters). So I explained. I was a little surprised, since my 11 year old is pretty worldly. I also thought she knew about the concept of transgender (if not the term), because her sister has a female friend who now wants to be known as a boy, and we referenced him a lot in the fall, when he was in our lives more.

Yes, I think a child can understand transgender before they know about much of anything, if you explain it in simple terms. The simplest terms, which I just repeated to my kids, are that some people feel inside that they are really a girl even if they were born a boy, or vice versa. That no one knows why some people feel this way, but they do and that they wear clothing, makeup, or go to the doctor to look more like the girl (or boy) they want to be. I also said that I did not know about this until I was an adult, but I now have met a couple people who have felt this way.

[AnnieW625]

No my almost 10 yr. old doesn't know of Caitlyn Jenner or the mechanics of sex. I have a family friend who identifies as trans (she dresses like a he and has always liked girls), but my girls have never met her because she lives far away from us, but I would have no issue if they met.

My best friend and I used to think Boy George was hilarious and we knew who he was when we're 8 or 9, but it never brought up the sex discussion or why people were trans with our parents, which in the mid 80s was super taboo, although both of our parents would've had no issue of we had asked. If my Dd1 asked who Caitlyn Jenner was and why she is on the news all of the time I would tell her the basics.

[jgenie]

No, he wouldn't have the faintest idea.

[vonfirmath]

I doubt my son knows who Caitlyn is. Or who the Kardashians are for that matter. Maybe it has come up in school? But we do not partake much of popular culture so they have not crossed his path as someone significant yet. I had to bring up the presidential candidates deliberately and I'm not sure he really knows much about them either and that is taking up a LOT more time in our house right now.

[almostmom]

I think my kids know, but really not sure. They definitely do know about transgender, and what that means. We've talked about it multiple times, talking about why a tomboy girl DS is friends with isn't transgender, and that sort of thing. I agree, it doesn't have anything to do with sex. That said, we had the sex talk with my kids years ago, and talk about sexuality not irregularly, especially with DS. Glad they know - it wouldn't get easier to talk about as they get older! And it's not some awful secret that kids can't handle, in my opinion. And they confirmed that. I mean, I assume that my 12 year old has seen some porn (if it was so easy to find, I would have seen some by then!), so I wanted to make sure he heard about it from me before making his own assumptions about sex as portrayed online and in the porn that young boys (and girls) are going to find. I don't think he's seeking it out, yet, but I wouldn't be surprised if some of his more mature friends are. And maybe he is!

[gatorsmom]

No, should they? They also have no idea who Lamar Odom, Vladimir Putin, Madonna, Barbara Walters, or O J Simpson are. I'm pretty sure they know who our president is, though.

[TwinFoxes]

No, should they? They also have no idea who Lamar Odom, Vladimir Putin, Madonna, Barbara Walters, or O J Simpson are.

This is kind of what I was thinking. They only celebrities they really know are probably Bryce Harper, Pharrell and Taylor Swift, and that's stretching it. They don't watch a lot of TV.

As for the other question, I think talking about transgender issues would be easy to do without talking about intercourse, using the phrasing of PP.

[JBaxter]

No my 7 yr old doesn't Unless he would have been a pro soccer player he would have no interest. My 12 yr old does through facebook memes. He cant wrap his mind around why anyone would want to dress up as a girl "I" didn't go in to the other details at this point it would freak him out. But that's the kind of kid he is.

[maestramommy]

Probably no, since we don't watch TV or subscribe to any celebrity media. However, if the topic of transgender came up I would talk about it with them. I have already had a convo with DD1 in the last year about transgender. Around the time DD3 kept wishing she was a boy, and cut her hair short so she would look like a boy. It's blown over, but I did tell DD1 that sometimes people are born with a gender that they "know" is wrong, because things just came out funny. I didn't give any scientific details.

[wellyes]

My 5 year old might? We listen to chatty morning radio during the drive to kindergarten, and Caitlyn has come up there in a fairly neutral way. Not anti-trans but not Caitlyn cheerleader.

[Kindra178]

My 7 and 9 year olds don't know who Jenner is. Unless she was a professional athlete or judge on the Voice, not sure why they would. They all know about transgender though. One also knows the mechanics of intercourse.


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[2ndtimearound]

No, should they? They also have no idea who Lamar Odom, Vladimir Putin, Madonna, Barbara Walters, or O J Simpson are. I'm pretty sure they know who our president is, though.

That's the question. Personally, no, I don't think it is approrpriate for a young child to know about Caitlyn Jenner as someone "famous because of being trans". It's a fine distinction-- if a kid was interested in the Olympics and knew Jenner as a medal winner, and that lead to a discussion of her life today, then Imwould not have an issue with it. But because this specific 8 y.o. knew of Jenner ONLY because she was a man and is now a woman-- it really bothered me.

The context for all of this is DD had a friend over and they were looking up something on the iPad and apparently something with a picture of Jenner popped up and the friend said "Hello Caitlyn Jenner and her surgeon..." I have NO idea what image they saw. Maybe I should have taken the iPad away at that moment, but I was already a little freaked out. I said, "Oh wow, you did not just say that..." to her friend. BAD parenting moment. Thankfully, we were in a big room with other noise and I was in the other side of the room. Maybe that does not make it better, but Inwas thankful I was not standing right next to them. Once I realized what I said, I tried to back track. DD asked, "Who's Caitlyn Jenner?" I said she is a woman who was born a man, but she felt like she was a woman, so she had an operation to make her a woman. Not the greatest explanation. DD does not know about transgendered persons. We just have not had a reason to talk about it; we don't know anyone who is transgendered, and bring it up at random feels forced.

Anyway, I was shocked that the friend knew about her. Admidedly friend watches a lot more TV that DD does. It's always on at their house when I drop off or pick up, which is at least 2-3 times per week. Friend's mom told me yesterday that she intends to tell her DD about the mechanics of sex this weekend. I wish she wouldn't because I know friend will tell DD (they are exclusive BFFs who play only with each other. That's another issue, but anyway.) I am not ready to tell DD about the mechanics of sex.

[Kindra178]

That's the question. Personally, no, I don't think it is approrpriate for a young child to know about Caitlyn Jenner as someone "famous because of being trans". It's a fine distinction-- if a kid was interested in the Olympics and knew Jenner as a medal winner, and that lead to a discussion of her life today, then Imwould not have an issue with it. But because this specific 8 y.o. knew of Jenner ONLY because she was a man and is now a woman-- it really bothered me.

The context for all of this is DD had a friend over and they were looking up something on the iPad and apparently something with a picture of Jenner popped up and the friend said "Hello Caitlyn Jenner and her surgeon..." I have NO idea what image they saw. Maybe I should have taken the iPad away at that moment, but I was already a little freaked out. I said, "Oh wow, you did not just say that..." to her friend. BAD parenting moment. Thankfully, we were in a big room with other noise and I was in the other side of the room. Maybe that does not make it better, but Inwas thankful I was not standing right next to them. Once I realized what I said, I tried to back track. DD asked, "Who's Caitlyn Jenner?" I said she is a woman who was born a man, but she felt like she was a woman, so she had an operation to make her a woman. Not the greatest explanation. DD does not know about transgendered persons. We just have not had a reason to talk about it; we don't know anyone who is transgendered, and bring it up at random feels forced.

Anyway, I was shocked that the friend knew about her. Admidedly friend watches a lot more TV that DD does. It's always on at their house when I drop off or pick up, which is at least 2-3 times per week. Friend's mom told me yesterday that she intends to tell her DD about the mechanics of sex this weekend. I wish she wouldn't because I know friend will tell DD (they are exclusive BFFs who play only with each other. That's another issue, but anyway.) I am not ready to tell DD about the mechanics of sex.

I think your explanation was fine. It wasn't forced - it came up organically - which is perfect. I guess I am confused why are shocked that the friend knew about Jenner? If OBJ was transgender my kids would surely know! Sometimes kids with older siblings get exposed to different stuff, maybe things you are less comfortable with. But there isn't really a way to avoid this. Maybe a follow up conversation is in order?

[Simon]

My oldest knows about transgender people (adults, kids in general) but wouldn't know anything about celebrities. I don't consider it an inappropriate topic for my 6 yo, either.

[123LuckyMom]

I don't find it shocking that an 8 year old would know figures from popular culture if the tv is on often in her house or if she has unlimited access to an iPad. Kids pick up a ton from passively being around television even if they're not watching it, and a second grader can read and understand things on the internet. If her parents are interested in these things, it's not surprising that she knows about them. I admit that I'd be surprised if one of my kids' friends came out with something like that, because our friends tend not to have tvs or to watch them after the kids are in bed. Of all the figures of popular culture, though, knowing about Caitlyn Jenner would surprise me less than knowing about most other people in the entertainment industry only because parents might have used her story as a way to talk about being transgendered. My kids know some sports figures and politicians, but that's about it.




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[2ndtimearound]

My oldest knows about transgender people (adults, kids in general) but wouldn't know anything about celebrities. I don't consider it an inappropriate topic for my 6 yo, either.

To clarify my position-- I am *not* saying that a child knowing about transgender persons (that they exist) is inappropriate. What I object to is knowing about a person being famous ONLY because they are transgender. I n this case, I am very sure that the friend's knowledge of Jenner is not coming from an interest in the Olympics or even the Kardashians. It's because this person was a man and is now a woman. That seems like a lousy reason to be famous because it reduces the person to one-dimensional. Maybe this is a moot point because Jenner was already famous, but it feel like voyeurism to know about her for only the reason of being transgendered.

[klwa]

My 10 year old has never mentioned Caitlyn/Bruce, so I doubt he knows who she is. Neither has my 7 year old.

As for the other part of the question, one of my dad's cousins cross-dressed as a child. I don't think he considered himself to BE a woman, but when in public he always wore dresses. (He still went by his original name, which is not one that would be considered feminine at all. Or at least he did within the family.) While we considered him eccentric, we never really thought too much about it beyond that. So, I don't think it's odd to have the idea of transgender prior to understanding the mechanics of sex.

[hillview]

No. My 8 year old knows how babies get made. He knows that men can love and marry men and women can love and marry women. We haven't gotten into the transgender discussion. There is a child at his school who is in transition. The child is 3 grades above my son -- so far it has not come up. When it does we will discuss it. My 10 year old knows about transgender -- we saw something about it on 60 minutes. As for the Jenner/Kardashians we avoid tabloid crap for the boys as best we can.

[Green_Tea]

I am guessing that my son would not know who Caitlyn is because he is oblivious to celebrities, but my DDs would have known by the time they were 8 because they were much more tuned into that kind of stuff.

At that age my girls learned a lot about pop culture just by reading the covers of magazines in line at the grocery store. I remember my oldest informing me that some celebrity was pregnant, and when I asked where she had heard that she said she saw it on a magazine. So I guess I am not surprised that your DD's friend would know only that Caitlyn Jenner used to be a man and not any other things about her, because it's not like the tabloids are focusing on her athletic prowess at this point.

Not that you asked, but I don't consider understanding the mechanics of sex to be inappropriate at any age. If you are concerned that your DD might hear about it from a friend, you might want to explain it to her sooner rather than later. It's not unusual for kids her age to know about sex, so if she doesn't hear about it from this friend she certainly might from another.

[Twoboos]

My kids know about her in passing - they have seen some commercials for the show and asked who she was.

They know about transgender people because last year a girl transitioned to a boy. He was in 4th grade (now 5th), same grade as DD2. So my explanation about Caitlyn was - she used to be a famous male athlete, but now she's a woman, kinda like how Jane became Bob at school.

[TwinFoxes]

That's the question. Personally, no, I don't think it is approrpriate for a young child to know about Caitlyn Jenner as someone "famous because of being trans". It's a fine distinction-- if a kid was interested in the Olympics and knew Jenner as a medal winner, and that lead to a discussion of her life today, then Imwould not have an issue with it. But because this specific 8 y.o. knew of Jenner ONLY because she was a man and is now a woman-- it really bothered me.

The context for all of this is DD had a friend over and they were looking up something on the iPad and apparently something with a picture of Jenner popped up and the friend said "Hello Caitlyn Jenner and her surgeon..." I have NO idea what image they saw. Maybe I should have taken the iPad away at that moment, but I was already a little freaked out. I said, "Oh wow, you did not just say that..." to her friend. BAD parenting moment. Thankfully, we were in a big room with other noise and I was in the other side of the room. Maybe that does not make it better, but Inwas thankful I was not standing right next to them. Once I realized what I said, I tried to back track. DD asked, "Who's Caitlyn Jenner?" I said she is a woman who was born a man, but she felt like she was a woman, so she had an operation to make her a woman. Not the greatest explanation. DD does not know about transgendered persons. We just have not had a reason to talk about it; we don't know anyone who is transgendered, and bring it up at random feels forced.

Anyway, I was shocked that the friend knew about her. Admidedly friend watches a lot more TV that DD does. It's always on at their house when I drop off or pick up, which is at least 2-3 times per week. Friend's mom told me yesterday that she intends to tell her DD about the mechanics of sex this weekend. I wish she wouldn't because I know friend will tell DD (they are exclusive BFFs who play only with each other. That's another issue, but anyway.) I am not ready to tell DD about the mechanics of sex.

What you described wouldn't shock me in the least. I guess I don't see what's wrong with saying "hello Caitlyn Jenner and her surgeon." I also don't understand why you assume she only knows who Catilyn Jenner is because her being transgender. There's no way she only knows who Jenner is only because she's transgender. Of all the transgender people out there. It's because she's been on television and magazine covers for years before she became Caitlyn.

FWIW, my DDs know the mechanics of sex, since they were 5ish I'd say. It wasn't a big deal at all. I got tired of hearing "but how does the baby get in there?" all the time. I told them in an age-appropriate manner. They haven't told anyone else as far as I know, and it was not a big deal at all. They didn't freak out, or think it was gross, and when they talk about having babies they say "but we'll be grownups when that happens."

[123LuckyMom]

To clarify my position-- I am *not* saying that a child knowing about transgender persons (that they exist) is inappropriate. What I object to is knowing about a person being famous ONLY because they are transgender. I n this case, I am very sure that the friend's knowledge of Jenner is not coming from an interest in the Olympics or even the Kardashians. It's because this person was a man and is now a woman. That seems like a lousy reason to be famous because it reduces the person to one-dimensional. Maybe this is a moot point because Jenner was already famous, but it feel like voyeurism to know about her for only the reason of being transgendered.

I don't see why being famous just for being trans would be any more awful than being famous just for being on a reality show or being famous just for being wealthy. Many, many, many people in our country are famous for extremely dubious reasons that have nothing to do with an accomplishment or talent other than a talent for self-promotion. Caitlyn was already in the public eye before making her transition, so it's not a surprise that she would continue to be in the public eye. That an 8 year old wouldn't know her history as first an athlete and then a reality star doesn't seem that odd to me. My children know Ronald Reagan was president, but I didn't think to tell them he had been an actor before his political career, so I doubt they know. I'm trying to think of a better example, but it's eluding me. In any case, I think fame in this country is a warped honor and not often based on anything I would consider deserving of fame. In Caitlyn's case she was not elevated to fame solely because of her transition. That a child wouldn't know that, though, doesn't surprise me.


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[TwinFoxes]

In Caitlyn's case she was not elevated to fame solely because of her transition. That a child wouldn't know that, though, doesn't surprise me.




This is what I was trying to say, but you phrased it better. It's not like she was a random nobody plucked out of obscurity and made famous because she is trans. 5 years ago she was famous for being the dad in the Kardashian family, not because of her Olympic glory. A few years ago I was talking to my nephew, who was 19 at the time. He had absolutely no idea that Bruce Jenner had been an Olympic athlete. He thought Bruce Jenner was just some random rich guy with a bunch of crazy kids. (This was before she started obviously transitioning.)

[wendibird22]

Both my 6 and 8 yr olds know about transgender identity. I work at a College in student services and am good friends with our LGBTQ+ coordinator who is a trans male. They've met him and know his gender identity and gender expression. They see it as no big deal.

And please take this in a spirit of helpfulness and not criticism, but the term "transgendered" (with an -ed) is considered offensive by many in the trans community. I know no one meant it to be and this board is such a great place of education so I mention it just as a point of clarification.

[citymama]

And please take this in a spirit of helpfulness and not criticism, but the term "transgendered" (with an -ed) is considered offensive by many in the trans community. I know no one meant it to be and this board is such a great place of education so I mention it just as a point of clarification.

:yeahthat: Thank you!

[Simon]

To clarify my position-- I am *not* saying that a child knowing about transgender persons (that they exist) is inappropriate. What I object to is knowing about a person being famous ONLY because they are transgender. I n this case, I am very sure that the friend's knowledge of Jenner is not coming from an interest in the Olympics or even the Kardashians. It's because this person was a man and is now a woman. That seems like a lousy reason to be famous because it reduces the person to one-dimensional. Maybe this is a moot point because Jenner was already famous, but it feel like voyeurism to know about her for only the reason of being transgendered.

That makes sense. I would prefer that my kids know of Jenner's via her significant accomplishments in sports.

[hillview]

And please take this in a spirit of helpfulness and not criticism, but the term "transgendered" (with an -ed) is considered offensive by many in the trans community. I know no one meant it to be and this board is such a great place of education so I mention it just as a point of clarification.
Thank you. I'd love any websites or ideas you have to be better informed about this sort of thing. I have some gay and lesbian friends but not trans. I'd like to be more aware and use appropriate language.

[2ndtimearound]

And please take this in a spirit of helpfulness and not criticism, but the term "transgendered" (with an -ed) is considered offensive by many in the trans community. I know no one meant it to be and this board is such a great place of education so I mention it just as a point of clarification.

Good to know. Out of curiosity, do you know why the -ed makes it offensive? I'm reminded of back when the phrase "mentally retarded" was used more frequently as a clinical description, but to call someone a "retard" was always offensive. Those two little letters made a difference.

[wellyes]

She's famous for being an advocate, too. I mean, she's an advocate *because* she is famous , but still. She is not just (currently) famous for transitioning . She is attempting to use her celebrity to make life easier for others going through the same process . Contrast that to other formerly famous people in the news for negative reasons.... drugs or scandal. If a little kid knows who Bill Cosby is right now , it's probably not for his admirable career. It's just ugliness.

[TwinFoxes]

And please take this in a spirit of helpfulness and not criticism, but the term "transgendered" (with an -ed) is considered offensive by many in the trans community. I know no one meant it to be and this board is such a great place of education so I mention it just as a point of clarification.

Good to know. I'll edit my posts. :)

[citymama]

Good to know. Out of curiosity, do you know why the -ed makes it offensive? I'm reminded of back when the phrase "mentally retarded" was used more frequently as a clinical description, but to call someone a "retard" was always offensive. Those two little letters made a difference.

See: "Why It’s Best to Avoid the Word ‘Transgendered’"
http://time.com/3630965/transgender-transgendered/

[wendibird22]

There's great info here http://www.transequality.org/issues/resources/understanding-transgender-people-faq and here http://www.glaad.org/transgender/transfaq


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[123LuckyMom]

Both my 6 and 8 yr olds know about transgender identity. I work at a College in student services and am good friends with our LGBTQ+ coordinator who is a trans male. They've met him and know his gender identity and gender expression. They see it as no big deal.

And please take this in a spirit of helpfulness and not criticism, but the term "transgendered" (with an -ed) is considered offensive by many in the trans community. I know no one meant it to be and this board is such a great place of education so I mention it just as a point of clarification.

Thanks for posting this and for the links above! I'm going to read them. I think I used the -ed in my post above, so I've probably used it in casual conversation. I actually have a close friend and colleague who is trans, and I hate to think I've been offensive (though I can't imagine his not correcting me, so maybe I've been lucky only to mess up here)! I appreciate the education!


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[ahisma]

My kids don't know enough about pop culture to know. They do know about transgender people, just not anyone famous. Their 17 yo sister is a Planned Parenthood peer educator - I think it's just a matter of fact no big deal thing to them.