IEP help

[tabegle]

I've never posted here before, but now that my ds officially qualifies for an IEP, I would love some help, advice, insight, anything.

DS, 5 yo, is in kindy and is a pretty bright kid, but has issues with controlling his emotions/outbursts/anger to the point an IEP study was done and he qualifies based on his emotional/behavioral deficiencies.

As part of the recommended IEP, we did not see any educational guidelines listed out. Is that normal? DH and I both feel strongly that while DS is getting the additional support/guidance he needs for emotional, he continues to grow academically.

For instance, if he is currently testing at 95% of his peers, we want him to still test at or above 95% a year from now. After all, this is an Individualized Education Plan.

Is this unreasonable? The feedback received so far to this idea has not been welcoming. Again, any advice, suggestions, thoughts, insight, ANYTHING would be appreciated. And if it makes a difference, we live in Illinois.

TIA!!!

[hillview]

The IEP addresses the differences not the areas he is doing well in so yes from what you said I think it's typical. My son has a 504 plan for some behavior but nothing academic. I'd suggest considering a neuropsych eval to understand what's causing the behavioral issues. Good luck!

[BunnyBee]

I have never heard of guaranteeing a specific testing percentage on an IEP. Bright kids can have scores drop for any number of reasons. Test scores don't really reflect what the child is learning. And, above all else, K level testing is...well, wholly unreliable for predicting future performance. One of many articles explaining why in part: https://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/answer-sheet/post/why-giving-standardized-tests-to-young-children-is-really-dumb/2011/07/18/gIQAB7OnMI_blog.html

So yes, that request is unreasonable.

I agree with hillview that the best way to help him succeed in the future is to figure out the why behind the behaviors. School testing is not intended to diagnose.

[vludmilla]

It's unreasonable. The IEP isn't going to address everything it possibly could. Also the concept of FAPE is an issue...FAPE is a "free and appropriate education". You don't get to use an IEP to support achievement that is well above average.

[Cam&Clay]

DS2 has an IEP for an emotional disability (anxiety). His IEP addresses only that...his behavior and how he handles his emotions. His academics are well above average but his IEP shouldn't address that.

[LBW]

Is it possible that some of his outbursts are due to boredom? If so, then you may be able to get some specific accommodations stating that he will be given more challenging work, as needed.

[annex]

Even if your child was behind peers academically in an area like reading, a typical IEP goal would be for them to be "at grade level in reading" when assessed the next year. The laws don't require them to put the bar higher than grade level for growth.

I agree though that accommodations would be where you can address some of your concerns, and request that they be giving challenging work if you have seen a pattern of boredom with material leading to behavior issue.

My bright daughter was at a charter that used ILPs (Individualized Learning Plans) where you were more likely to be able to set academic goals that addressed growth above grade level. Those are optional plans, and very different than IEPs which fall under the IDEA law for educating students with disabilities.

[tabegle]

Thanks everyone for your responses. This really helps as I am completely new to navigating this world.

More information:

They completely want to remove my son from his current classroom (teacher ratio 1:18) to a class of kids with behavioral kids (ratio up to 1:13) and grade levels of K through 3, and currently (and usually) all boys.

I do have an upcoming apt with a Pediatric Neurologist, but I'm told it is only supposed to take an hour, so I expect it is more of an initial appointment.

Since the recommendation is to completely remove him from the general education environment, I am shocked and surprised there is no mention of academics whatsoever in his IEP. Here's an analogy. I have a car with a bad muffler (aka behavior) and I take it to be fixed. They fix the muffler, but now the engine stalls all the time (delayed learning because of no direction on academics). Would that be acceptable to you?

I just don't want his learning to stagnate in the classroom. Some of his outbursts may indeed stem from being bored. His sister is in 1st and he has enjoyed working on her math homework. (and she's bored too). Frankly, I disappointed in the school system overall. I understand that kids to come into school starting al all levels, but I feel like so much of it is holding back some kids while the others catch up.

Overall, yes, my son does need some help and he's been in behavioral therapy since December (also when I requested the pediatric behavioral (neurology) appointment that is finally coming up now this month). I suspect he might fall on the ASD. His kindy teach definitely thinks he does (Asperger's) but the schools autism evaluation was one person spending 45 minutes with him one time. And she only works with non-Asperger's cases, so I think that evaluation was crap.

We are really doing everything we can to help him. The other pediatric behavior place ds' pediatrician recommended we go to, turned us down after I sent in the paperwork because "they don't work with autism cases".

And if this post isn't rambly enough, the whole IEP meeting felt so patronizing. we walked in there having read some of the evaluations prior and we just felt like they had already had a pre-meeting about what was going to happen. 1) they all already knew what they were going to recommend, 2) it felt like a big sales presentation for the "special classroom". All that was left was to click a few boxes and print out the material for us to sign. They wanted us to sign our first IEP right then and there without having a chance to actually read the material and learn more about our other options.

I need to make sure I get this right and do what I can to advocate for my kid.

[vludmilla]

There should be a student advocacy agency in your area. You could ask the school district for the contact information or locate it yourself. Sometimes it is free but even when it costs money it can be worth it to get an objective and experienced person attending meetings and reviewing paperwork with you.

[Green_Tea]

I would not make the move out of a general ed environment without a diagnosis and evaluation from someone outside the school district. If they are making the recommendation for your child's safety or the safety of his peers, you could agree to the placement for the short term but I would make sure that his long term placement is determined after you have had the chance to pursue outside testing and a diagnosis.

If your child is not struggling academically, it's not surprising that the IEP would not mention academic goals.

The people at the meeting definitely met ahead of time to review the results of testing and decide on what recommendations they would make. That's par for the course. I understand how it made you feel, though, and I'm sorry.

I have never heard of a developmental pediatrician that doesn't work with "autism cases" - if you share your general location here, maybe some of the mamas on this board can give you some leads!

[hillview]

I would not make the move out of a general ed environment without a diagnosis and evaluation from someone outside the school district. If they are making the recommendation for your child's safety or the safety of his peers, you could agree to the placement for the short term but I would make sure that his long term placement is determined after you have had the chance to pursue outside testing and a diagnosis.

If your child is not struggling academically, it's not surprising that the IEP would not mention academic goals.

The people at the meeting definitely met ahead of time to review the results of testing and decide on what recommendations they would make. That's par for the course. I understand how it made you feel, though, and I'm sorry.

I have never heard of a developmental pediatrician that doesn't work with "autism cases" - if you share your general location here, maybe some of the mamas on this board can give you some leads!

Agree with all of this. I would not move out of general ed program until dx is made and appropriate accommodations can be sorted.

[Kindra178]

He needs private OT asap. Can you also add social work services to his IEP? Can you move schools?

[tabegle]

He needs private OT asap. Can you also add social work services to his IEP? Can you move schools?

Occupational therapy? What about my post makes you think that?

In regards to the other questions/comments:
Children's Hospital of Wisconsin specifically declined my request for an appointment because, I don't remember the exact wording, but it essentially stated they don't work with autism cases. On the intake form, I had selected I was concerned about autism. (I also selected that I was concerned about behavior problems). I was really disappointed about this because it's a whole hospital dedicated to children; how can they not study autism/asd, and/or similar behavior issues?!?! (http://www.chw.org/)

My pediatrician also recommended this place so that's where our appointment is with the Pediatric Neurologist. http://www.alexianbrothershealth.org/abbhh

It's just so crazy. The school psychologist thinks he has OCD, the behavioral therapist apparently has him diagnosed as ADHD, the pediatrician specifically said he does not have ADHD, the kindy teacher marked him as high on some Gilliam Barr (sp?) Aspergers spectrum (and I think that's where he might be too, but could very well grow out of it) and the school autism person said he def does not have autism.

[cuca_]

I agree. I would not move him out of the general education classroom. If I were you, I would schedule another meeting and specifically request that he be placed in the general education classroom with an aide, in light of his academic strengths. I also agree, that you need a neuropsychologist evaluation ASAP. You need to ask the neuropsych to make specific recommendations in the report and share it with the school.


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[niccig]

It's just so crazy. The school psychologist thinks he has OCD, the behavioral therapist apparently has him diagnosed as ADHD, the pediatrician specifically said he does not have ADHD, the kindy teacher marked him as high on some Gilliam Barr (sp?) Aspergers spectrum (and I think that's where he might be too, but could very well grow out of it) and the school autism person said he def does not have autism.

So no one in the schools can diagnose him. That's up to a doctor. They can though give him an eligibility "Other Health Impairment" and say he has characteristics of OCD or ADHD or give him an eligibility of Autism saying he has characteristics of Autism. An eligibility is needed for any special education services, but it is not a medical diagnosis. Keep in mind that the school's criteria for autism as set by your state may not be the same as the medical criteria. I have one student that the school said has characteristics of Autism as met the school's criteria but a neuropsych said doesn't have Autism, he has ADHD. It's confusing to say the least, but at least in this student's case, he will get the same school services and same class placement if it's Autism or ADHD. It also comes down to who can make that determination in the school. At my school, only the psych can determine Autism or OHI with characteristics of ADHD etc. Just as I'm the only one that can determine if a child has a Speech Language Impairment (SLI). Doesn't matter what other therapists or the teacher thinks, they don't have the qualifications or license to make that determination. It does all get discussed as a team, feedback is taken from everyone, but no one else can sign off on SLI except for me.

Having an outside evaluation does help, so hopefully you can get that soon. With a diagnosis you should also be able to look into services using your health insurance and our state regional centers also offer services depending on diagnosis. Many of my students who have autism also get services through the regional center.

[tabegle]

Update:
We had our pediatric neurology appointment today and I feel a lot better. We are going to get a bunch of stuff done over the summer, and I hope, redo a bunch of the IEP.

The dr is recommending a neuro-pysch eval in addition to an EEG (just to rule out silent seizures based on some of ds' behaviors), as well as a change in behavioral therapists. The neuropysch, in the opinion of the dr it took 4 months to get into today, is one of the best in Chicagoland. She'll do a write up and it will have a bunch of recommendations for the IEP, and probably include putting ds back in gen ed with an aide. The dr we saw today really thinks it's all stemming from three areas: anxiety disorder (being the biggest issue), social emotional disorder, and a touch of ADHD/add (I don't remember which). He could have high functioning Autism, but even if he does, the recommended treatment is all the same. The autism may or may not come out in the neuro-pysch eval and there is no harm in having it done. The behavioral therapists change is because ours does"play based therapy" which the dr thinks really only works well for cases of child abuse. I am happy for this recommendation because it kills me every week to pay to see my kid play Trouble, or Sorry, or with play dough.

The EEG and eval will be done asap, but the earliest I can get another appt with the pediatric neurologist is 4.5 months out... after the new school year starts. I'm on a waitlist for any cancellations. If it's not understood, I'm calling back tomorrow to make sure that's understood. :)

Thanks again all for your thoughts, experiences, and insight!

[cuca_]

Great update!! Any chance the neurologist can put some of his recommendations in writing. That way you can submit it to the school when you request an aide? Especially since the neuropsychologist appointment will take place after school starts.

[wellyes]

When I read your post I thought this kid needs a nueropsych eval..... and the update is that you're on that track!


The dr we saw today really thinks it's all stemming from three areas: anxiety disorder (being the biggest issue), social emotional disorder, and a touch of ADHD/add (I don't remember which). He could have high functioning Autism, but even if he does, the recommended treatment is all the same.

Sounds a lot like my DD, though she has a social communication disorder instead of social emotional disorder. There are times I wish she had an autism diagnosis. (Not a different disorder or kid! Just a different code for medical insurance billing). Social disorders are not as well known or understood. I get eyerolls instead of sympathy and it's not easy to get therapies approved.

[tabegle]

When I read your post I thought this kid needs a nueropsych eval..... and the update is that you're on that track!



Sounds a lot like my DD, though she has a social communication disorder instead of social emotional disorder. There are times I wish she had an autism diagnosis. (Not a different disorder or kid! Just a different code for medical insurance billing). Social disorders are not as well known or understood. I get eyerolls instead of sympathy and it's not easy to get therapies approved.
Yeah, I think having an autism DX helps people understand better because it's talked about/heard. Social disorder... I can only imagine my own parents laughing at that and thinking I'm crazy. My parents are old school and tough love approach, not at all how I am raising my kids.

My I ask what you are doing for your daughter?

[michellerw]

You're definitely on the right track. DD initially received her IEP because of motor and motor planning delays. Emotional regulation (she shuts down and cries) based on anxiety and sensory input became really evident in the general classroom, so she gets pullouts as well as adaptive PE now. Her teachers have been amazing and we're lucky enough to live in a wealthy school district, so they have done a lot of things to get her the pullouts to help her in a smaller environment, despite no documented educational delays. We have been tremendously lucky in this regard but I believe it is a legitimate approach and if you need help with suggested goals, feel free to PM me.

Developmental delay is a catch all diagnosis that is legitimate through seven years old. DD will turn seven next Feb and the school system will kick off the formal eval at the beginning of next year, so as to home in on specific issues from the perspective of a label that will enable her to receive services moving forward. The other challenge is that I am about 95% certain that she has Sensory Processing Disorder... but that is no longer a DSM diagnosis, so there need to be other ways to get her what she wants. The seizure thing is something we're dealing with as well; I have a genetic form of epilepsy and I also had Childhood Absence Epilepsy. Silent absence seizures do happen and they're hard to catch in an average or above average child, because they look "dreamy."