What is your opinion on the Olympic 400m runner who dove across the finish line?

[Corie]

What is your opinion on the Olympic 400m runner who dove across the finish line?

http://www.usatoday.com/story/sports/olympics/rio-2016/2016/08/16/womens-400-meter-dive-finish-shaunae-miller-allyson-felix/88818862/


I realize that it's legal but for some reason it feels like "cheating" to me.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I watched it live and it really bothered me. I do not think it's fair and I don't think she should have earned a gold medal for it. I was describing it to a friend today and surprised myself with how strongly I felt about it. Finish the race on your feet.
ETA- I hadn't realized she'd stumbled. I feel less strongly about its "wrongness" now.


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[Corie]

I watched it live and it really bothered me. I do not think it's fair and I don't think she should have earned a gold medal for it. I was describing it to a friend today and surprised myself with how strongly I felt about it. Finish the race on your feet.
ETA- I hadn't realized she'd stumbled. I feel less strongly about its "wrongness" now.


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Here is a quote from Shaunae Miller who is the girl who dove across the finish line.

Was Miller's dive intentional? After the race, the runner from the Bahamans said: "What was in my mind was I had to get a gold medal. The next thing I knew I was on the ground." So perhaps it was more instinctual than strategic.

http://www.chicagotribune.com/sports/international/ct-shaunae-miller-dive-allyson-felix-20160816-story.html

I'm wondering if she is now saying that she stumbled because of all the backlash she's been getting.

[bisous]

For whatever reason, it doesn't bother me. It apparently isn't against the Olympic rules so I think it is fine. I guess in my mind it is no different than surging the wall like Michael Phelps often does at the end of his races. It looked painful and not terribly efficient to me but clearly what do I know!

[Simon]

So long as it isn't illegal (per rules of the race) then its just one possible strategy of many. I agree with the pp who said it may have been more instinctual than planned. IIRC, diving is not allowed in many other track and field competitions which I think explains that backlash. Even though its not technically illegal in the olympics, it feels wrong because it breaks with the usual code of conduct. If she dove/stumbled but didn't medal, I think no one would care.

[cheme]

Dh was upset about it, thinking it wasn't fair. But, I figure if it is within the rules, then it is fine.

[Corie]

Dh was upset about it, thinking it wasn't fair. But, I figure if it is within the rules, then it is fine.

I agree with your husband. It is a running race after all. :)

[khm]

I didn't enjoy it, and I totally don't think she fell.

I think it is a calculated thing that she and others have done when if a whole bunch of factors align. I think it is risky timing-wise because I'm sure they don't practice that!

But, if it is not in violation, then she won - fair and square.

Most track athletes tweeting support for what she did, it is us laymen that are put off by it.

[essnce629]

Oh wow, I watched it at the time and thought she ended up with the silver medal. I'm not sure if she stumbled or dove on purpose.

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[american_mama]

I think she dove on purpose, with a little bit of a dying-to-get-there lean helping get her off balance - but I think the major factor was a deliberate dive. She leads with her head, not a falling chest as you would if you truly just stumbled. The commentators immediately responded like it was clearly a dive, as though that it was a known and occasional tactic. DH watches tons of track and I have seen many stumbles and falls at the finish line, but not a dive.

DH is traveling and hasn't exactly seen it. He ran track at college and was superb before giving it up for football (idiot). He seemed to think it was fine, but then he contradicted himself a little.

Some of the backlash may be because Alyson Felix, who got second, is 1) American 2) very popular, likable and well-resected by both sponsors, the public and the track community 4) sympathetic, because she was coming off an injury and tough year to try and make history, plus very very narrowly missed a qualifying spot to another Olylmpic race and 5) was going for history to get golds in 3 Olympics. So I think a lot of people wanted her to win, plus instinctively felt a race should be one by someone on their feet.

I don't really like it, but it doesn't matter. It's not against the rules, so she won, fair and square.

[DietCokeLover]

I guess it's legal, but I don't like it. Win on your merit in your sport, not in what seems like a desperation move. Yes, she is a gold medalist, but it will always be tainted by that dive.

[TwinFoxes]

I one hundred percent don't care. She could have injured herself and lost, she could have mistimed it and lost. Everything is happening sooo fast, and she and the silver medalist were separated by 100ths. I'm fine with it, sitting here on my couch. :) Who's the backlash coming from? The same twitter people who were so mean to Gabby Douglas? Or actual athletes? Apparently an American woman got her spot on the 400 team by diving. It doesn't seem like actual track athletes are up in arms.

I wonder if the backlash is mostly here, because she beat an American?

[TwinFoxes]

it will always be tainted by that dive.

I think this is true for a very small percentage of people watching. Mostly Americans, and not athletes. She won by 7/100ths of a second. There isn't even consensus on whether or not she would have lost if she hadn't dived.

[carolinacool]

I thought it was a little tacky to dive but whatevs. I know it's been done before. At trials, Allyson missed out on making the 200m team. The girl that snagged third-place also had a "fall." And, of course, she flamed out in the heats today. *side eye*

[JustMe]

I'm in the I didn't like it, but if its within the rules then she won fair and square.

There was something else that bothered me more. Keep in mind that I am not an athlete, not a competitive person, and am watching the olympics for the first time. Did you see the heat where a guy was disqualified for a "false start". Now, as I said, I know very little about this but it appeared to me this was not purposeful...and the poor guy loses his chance to even run the race. I know if those are the rules, then that's the way it is but wow did I feel bad for him.

[citymama]

I'm fine with it, sitting here on my couch. :) Who's the backlash coming from? The same twitter people who were so mean to Gabby Douglas? Or actual athletes? Apparently an American woman got her spot on the 400 team by diving. It doesn't seem like actual track athletes are up in arms.

I wonder if the backlash is mostly here, because she beat an American?

Agree with this perspective. This New Yorker piece (http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-beauty-of-shaunae-millers-ugly-dive-in-rio) makes a similar point as TwinFoxes:
"Social media, as we know by now, can be counted on to produce arguments about any opinion, but imagine, for a moment, if the roles Monday night were reversed. Felix has been at the center of NBC’s promotion of the Rio Games, and entered Monday’s race just one gold medal shy of an all-time record. If she had been the one to fling herself, like superwoman, across the line for gold, American fans would surely have hailed it as a brave and resourceful heave rather than a sneaky and unsporting face-plant."

It's legal for a reason - the rule makers prepare for these possibilities. Kind of like those annoying "only in Scrabble" words that your annoying brother-in-law will make that no one knows the meaning to or would ever use in a sentence. It's not the most elegant way to win, but the rules allow it, and so it's a winning move.

[TwinFoxes]

Agree with this perspective. This New Yorker piece (http://www.newyorker.com/news/sporting-scene/the-beauty-of-shaunae-millers-ugly-dive-in-rio) makes a similar point as TwinFoxes:
"Social media, as we know by now, can be counted on to produce arguments about any opinion, but imagine, for a moment, if the roles Monday night were reversed. Felix has been at the center of NBC’s promotion of the Rio Games, and entered Monday’s race just one gold medal shy of an all-time record. If she had been the one to fling herself, like superwoman, across the line for gold, American fans would surely have hailed it as a brave and resourceful heave rather than a sneaky and unsporting face-plant."



Yes! This is what I mean. We totally would have been admiring her willingness to risk injury as she gave "110%".

[KrisM]

I think it's weird they have such specific rules of what part of you has to cross the finish line to count. Not the feet, not the head, but the torso.

I also think that it's weird that diving across is allowed, but just 1 false start gets you booted from the race. Seems like harsh rules at the start of the race and then once it's going, anything goes.

[minnie-zb]

I don't mind if you are permitted to have torso cross first, but it's a running race and you should have to finish the race on your feet. The rule should be changed. This is not a diving competition.

[ChicagoNDMom]

Huh, I find it very interesting that anyone is critical. It is very risky to flail like that and I am sure more times than not it does not work. She ran super fast which put her in the position to even be close, it's not like she rode a bike or hitched a ride in a car to get close to the finish line.

I have no beef at all and congratulate her the same as any other Olympic champion.

[Corie]

I don't mind if you are permitted to have torso cross first, but it's a running race and you should have to finish the race on your feet. The rule should be changed. This is not a diving competition.


This is exactly how I feel too.

[ccather]

My opinion....Just because you can, doesn't mean you should.

[georgiegirl]

I don't mind if you are permitted to have torso cross first, but it's a running race and you should have to finish the race on your feet. The rule should be changed. This is not a diving competition.

I agree. It's so much easier with swimming. Just touch the wall. Swimming has tons of technical rules so that competitors don't get an unfair advantage.


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[wellyes]

I saw something about a US swimmer who got a metal using a controversial "fish kick" instead of traditional kick. Allowed but unconventional. She said something like, I knew I needed a smart strategy to win because I wasn't the fastest. I thought, fair enough. I would support a rule change. (Not that anyone will be asking me....)

ETA- found it, it was in 2000 http://www.slate.com/blogs/five_ring_circus/2016/08/09/the_fish_kick_helped_misty_hyman_win_a_gold_in_200 0_why_has_almost_no_one.html

[IansMom]

I don't mind if you are permitted to have torso cross first, but it's a running race and you should have to finish the race on your feet. The rule should be changed. This is not a diving competition.


:yeahthat: this is what I thought when I watched.

[Corie]

I saw something about a US swimmer who got a metal using a controversial "fish kick" instead of traditional kick. Allowed but unconventional. She said something like, I knew I needed a smart strategy to win because I wasn't the fastest. I thought, fair enough. I would support a rule change. (Not that anyone will be asking me....)

ETA- found it, it was in 2000 http://www.slate.com/blogs/five_ring_circus/2016/08/09/the_fish_kick_helped_misty_hyman_win_a_gold_in_200 0_why_has_almost_no_one.html

Nowhere in that article did it say the fish kick was controversial. The article said that most swimmers don't use it because
it is extremely difficult to master the fish kick and if done incorrectly, you risk being DQed. Sounds like most swimmers
don't want to chance it. In the article, Misty says that she isn't 6 feet tall like a lot of swimmers. In fact, Misty is only
5'7" so she was willing to chance the fish kick.

[Momit]

When I watched the race, I thought it looked like she did it on purpose and expected her to be disqualified. It does seem odd that it isn't against the rules to dive across the finish.

[bisous]

Yes! This is what I mean. We totally would have been admiring her willingness to risk injury as she gave "110%".

This is so true!

I admit I was disappointed for Felix. But it didn't strike me as unfair--just risky and possibly painful!

[georgiegirl]

I saw something about a US swimmer who got a metal using a controversial "fish kick" instead of traditional kick. Allowed but unconventional. She said something like, I knew I needed a smart strategy to win because I wasn't the fastest. I thought, fair enough. I would support a rule change. (Not that anyone will be asking me....)

ETA- found it, it was in 2000 http://www.slate.com/blogs/five_ring_circus/2016/08/09/the_fish_kick_helped_misty_hyman_win_a_gold_in_200 0_why_has_almost_no_one.html

Not sure why they are calling it a fish kick. It's a dolphin kick or butterfly kick. Under USA swim rules (and I think FINA is pretty much the same), swimmers can do unlimited dolphin kicks underwater (except for breaststroke where they can only do one dolphin kick), but they have to emerge from the water by the 15 meter mark. If you arch Michael phelps, he spends lots of time underwater. It's perfectly legal. And the dolphin kick isn't that hard to master. Yes, it does make you faster. If you watch the olympics from like 40 years ago, swimmers didn't spend a lot of time underwater. Now we now it's faster. With modern technology, swimmers have become faster and faster (not related to speed suits), but the ability to analyze the stroke better and use science to see drag/resistance, etc. runners have not improved like swimmers have.


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[o_mom]

Not sure why they are calling it a fish kick. It's a dolphin kick or butterfly kick. Under USA swim rules (and I think FINA is pretty much the same), swimmers can do unlimited dolphin kicks underwater (except for breaststroke where they can only do one dolphin kick), but they have to emerge from the water by the 15 meter mark. If you arch Michael phelps, he spends lots of time underwater. It's perfectly legal. And the dolphin kick isn't that hard to master. Yes, it does make you faster. If you watch the olympics from like 40 years ago, swimmers didn't spend a lot of time underwater. Now we now it's faster. With modern technology, swimmers have become faster and faster (not related to speed suits), but the ability to analyze the stroke better and use science to see drag/resistance, etc. runners have not improved like swimmers have.


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Fish kick is different than the dolphin kick. The motions are similar, but in the dolphin kick, the swimmer is facing down, so the legs move up and down toward the top of the water/bottom of the pool. For the fish kick they are rotated on their side so the legs move side to side, toward the lane lines.

I don't know that it is controversial, but it is not commonly seen.

[Kindra178]

I one hundred percent don't care. She could have injured herself and lost, she could have mistimed it and lost. Everything is happening sooo fast, and she and the silver medalist were separated by 100ths. I'm fine with it, sitting here on my couch. :) Who's the backlash coming from? The same twitter people who were so mean to Gabby Douglas? Or actual athletes? Apparently an American woman got her spot on the 400 team by diving. It doesn't seem like actual track athletes are up in arms.

I wonder if the backlash is mostly here, because she beat an American?

This exactly. She risked everything and it paid off. Enough said. I'm baffled why people care?