I'm so heartbroken

[essnce629]

I'm so heartbroken. Dh just had a vasectomy against my wishes. I feel like I still haven't even gotten over my miscarriage and now this. I'm so so sad. He's 34 and I'm 35. 💔😢

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[Liziz]

Oh my gosh. Hugs, hugs, hugs, and more hugs. Oh, I ache for you. My DH really wants to get one and I have begged him not to. Actually, him just bringing it up made me cry. And for him to do it without you both being onboard is really, really hard.

[trcy]

I'm so sorry. DH talks about getting one, but that's it. I'm open to a third, he is not. Honestly, we are probably best with two. But I can't imagine that door being permanently shut. Hugs to you!


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[wellyes]

I'm sorry. That is a terrible breach of trust.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Wow. :( I'm so sorry.


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[doberbrat]

I'm so sorry. :(

[Philly Mom]

Hugs to you. There are no words (and I wish my DH would get the V). In your shoes, I am pretty sure I would need him out of the house or I would need to get out of the house for a while.

[Soccermomm]

I am so sorry. Hugs!

[calebsmama03]

I'm so sorry. My DH did the same after my last miscarriage. He told me about it before hand but I wasn't ready and told him so. He thought he was being helpful and taking care of me because I had a rough time physically and emotionally with the last one, so he insisted on going ahead with it. They just don't understand the rollercoaster flood of hormones and emotions after a miscarriage and the fact that it takes time to feel like you're in a place to make that decision. I'm so sorry! And I'm sorry for your loss- I hadn't heard. ❤️ Hugs.

[SASM]

I am so sorry, Latia. HUGE hugs. Vasectomies are tough regardless but I am especially sorry to learn about your miscarriage. I strongly believe that God has a plan for your family, my friend.

[AnnieW625]

So sorry for you. Lots of hugs.

[JBaxter]

Wow I'm sorry When DH had h is done I had to sign a paper I knew he was having it done. That was 7 yrs ago so maybe the new HIPAA laws weren't in effect .

[jennilynn]

So so sorry. Hugs mama.


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[chottumommy]

So sorry, lots of hugs and prayers.

[citymama]

I'm so sorry about your miscarriage and this unilateral step by your DH.

[schrocat]

I'm sorry you're feeling sad.

[California]

Hugs, that's got to ache deep. As PP mentioned, you'd be justified to need some space from your DH right now. Maybe this is his way of grieving the miscarriages and being afraid of experiencing that pain again? I'm so sorry.

[ellies mom]

Hugs, that's got to ache deep. As PP mentioned, you'd be justified to need some space from your DH right now. Maybe this is his way of grieving the miscarriages and being afraid of experiencing that pain again? I'm so sorry.

I'm going to assign positive intent and go with this interpretation. My husband never let on how hurt he was by my miscarriage until I was pregnant with DD2. Which went a long way to explaining why he had kept suggesting adoption. He just didn't think he could go through it again.

I'm really sorry that you are having to deal with both your miscarriage and now this. I can imagine that you are feeling betrayed. Hugs.


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[hillview]

Sending you love and peace. Hugs

[essnce629]

Maybe this is his way of grieving the miscarriages and being afraid of experiencing that pain again? I'm so sorry.

Nope, he never wanted that 3rd baby and asked me to get an abortion before I had the miscarriage. So that's been another issue.

[ellies mom]

Nope, he never wanted that 3rd baby and asked me to get an abortion before I had the miscarriage. So that's been another issue.

I am so sorry.



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[Tenasparkl]

I'm sorry. That sounds incredibly painful.

[trcy]

Nope, he never wanted that 3rd baby and asked me to get an abortion before I had the miscarriage. So that's been another issue.

My heart is broken for you.


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[marymoo86]

No words, hugs.

[Globetrotter]

Oh I'm sorry :( HUGS

[bisous]

Sending you big hugs. Hope you can come to a place of peace. You are in my thoughts and prayers.

[khm]

I'm so sorry. :(

[teresah00]

I'm so sorry. I can't imagine how awful that must feel.

[Corie]

I think that you and your DH could really benefit from couples counseling. I remember an old thread from you
stating that you were trying to have an "oopsie" baby because you knew that your husband didn't want
a 3rd baby. So you were trying to get pregnant without his consent and now he had a vasectomy
without your consent. Those are very important decisions that you both are making without consulting
each other.

[georgiegirl]

I'm so sorry. It's very hard when a couple doesn't agree on the number of kids they want to have.


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[essnce629]

I think that you and your DH could really benefit from couples counseling. I remember an old thread from you
stating that you were trying to have an "oopsie" baby because you knew that your husband didn't want
a 3rd baby. So you were trying to get pregnant without his consent and now he had a vasectomy
without your consent. Those are very important decisions that you both are making without consulting
each other.
Yes, I have always wanted 3 kids and DH knew that. I was an only child and hated it and always wanted 3-5.

He first went for a consultation over a year ago, several months after my miscarriage. I went with him and cried the entire time and the doctor didn't care at all. After that DH never brought it up again till last month when he went for another consultation (alone) and scheduled it. He told me and I had a nervous crying breakdown on the floor of my bathroom and couldn't feel my hands or feet. I offered to get an IUD and we started seeing a therapist that same week. The therapist asked him not to do it till we had gotten through several therapy sessions and if he absolutely had to then to freeze his sperm. He ended up rescheduling the procedure from last month to this month and researched sperm freezing. I started seeing the therapist weekly on my own to work on all my issues from childhood that are affecting our marriage and he was supposed to join in on the sessions this week. He couldn't make this week's session and we're scheduled for next Fri. He decided he didn't want to pay for the sperm freezing I learned today so that was never done and we never had our couples therapy session before the procedure.

My biggest issue is that I wanted that 3rd baby soooooo bad and he didn't. He asked me to have an abortion or get a divorce. I chose the baby and then miscarried 3 weeks later. 😢💔

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[KpbS]

I'm so very sorry. I understand why you would feel heartbroken and betrayed. :hug:

[cheme]

I'm so sorry.

[TwinFoxes]

I'm so sorry. I hope that soneohow our concern for you is giving you some small comfort. :grouphug:

[liz]

I'm so very sorry. Please continue with therapy, with or without your husband. I hope you have someone close, a good friend or family member that you can also share your grief with. What a heavy loss to shoulder :hug:

[DietCokeLover]

I am so sad reading your last update. That is so much to deal with. I hope the two of you will be able to work through these things.

[Momit]

I'm kind of at a loss for words, but I am so sorry for what you're going through.

[JBaxter]

I hope you continue your individual therapy to deal with this. Its hard when one spouse is very against an additional child to the point of a divorce and the other spouse wants one. I hope you find a way to deal with it and stay married ( if thats what you chose )

[niccig]

I hope you continue your individual therapy to deal with this. Its hard when one spouse is very against an additional child to the point of a divorce and the other spouse wants one. I hope you find a way to deal with it and stay married ( if thats what you chose )

I agree with continuing therapy individually and then together. It's very difficult when you're on such opposing pages as to what you want for your family. Just as you really wanted another child, it sounds like he really didn't want another child equally as much. Hopefully counseling can help the two of you come together. While I don't agree with him going ahead before having the counseling sessions, he does get to say what he does to his body and if he wants anymore children. I'm sorry you're in such pain over this, the whole situation is awful.

[Twoboos]

Wow. I am so sorry, Latia. Hugs to you!

[Corie]

Yes, I have always wanted 3 kids and DH knew that. I was an only child and hated it and always wanted 3-5.




Yes, but you also married him knowing that he did NOT want 3 kids.

[HannaAddict]

Wow I'm sorry When DH had h is done I had to sign a paper I knew he was having it done. That was 7 yrs ago so maybe the new HIPAA laws weren't in effect .

It's not a law at all, they try and make it seem official. It is CYA by doctors who don't want angry wives. But not a law at all in any state, dudes wouldn't let women control their reproductive rights!


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[LBW]

I'm so sorry.

[Kindra178]

I am speechless. I am sorry you are going through this. Hopefully you can come to a resolution together.

[Simon]

:hug5: I'm sorry to hear you are hurting.

[essnce629]

Yes, but you also married him knowing that he did NOT want 3 kids.
Yes, but I guess I just always thought he'd change his mind. We had DS1 when we were only 21 and 22 and obviously that wasn't ideal. With DS2 DH was just finishing law school and it was right when the economy tanked.

I guess I just thought he might change his mind once we were married, owned a house, had a career as an attorney for 7 years, had been together for 13 years, were in our 30's, etc. It just didn't seem like a big deal to me to go from 2 kids to 3 at that point. Don't people change their minds all the time about the number of kids they want? Lots of people I know do. I guess my DH is just not one of them.

So yeah, I guess you can call me naive for thinking he would change his mind one day because he saw how important it was to me.

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[umsh]

I'm sorry...I know how painful it is, I've been hoping for a few years DH would change his mind about having more kids but he just won't. In a way, even though it's very painful now, maybe the finality of a vasectomy will allow you to move forward? Bc I just keep hoping my DH will change his mind or I'll find some way to convince him, and it's not happening, so I'm kinda stuck on "getting over it" and moving forward.
Either way, hugs and I'm sorry you're having to go through this.


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[mom2binsd]

I am so sorry that he went and did that completely behind your back, it's not like he bought an expensive item and then tried to explain it away. Hearing more about what has happened makes it seem like getting both of you to counseling will be important to move forward. As for your hopes that he would change his mind, I can see where at this point he probably feels like your youngest is now 7, so you are well past the baby stage and for many people, going back to the baby stage isn't the lifestyle they want. I'm so sorry he made that decision without you, and hope that you can move forward. What a tough situation he's put your relationship in, did he not realize how heartbroken you'd be?

[georgiegirl]

Some people change their mind and some don't. Some change their mind for the worse. My good friend and her husband had agreed to 3 kids (she would have been happy with even more.). After 2 kids, he said he was done and she wanted at least one more. They went to counseling over the issue, but he never warmed up to the idea of a third. In the end, she knew that his desire not to have a third child trumped her desire to have one. She ended up focusing a lot on the things they could do as a family with school aged kids, things that would be difficult with an infant or toddler...traveling to Europe, biking trips, etc. She still she had a third child, but she's come to terms with her family of 4.

[schrocat]

So yeah, I guess you can call me naive for thinking he would change his mind one day because he saw how important it was to me.

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Would you change your mind if you saw how important it was to him? It goes both ways.

I'm sorry you're hurting but your husband has the right to not want anymore kids and be proactive about it.

[HannaAddict]

Yes, but I guess I just always thought he'd change his mind. We had DS1 when we were only 21 and 22 and obviously that wasn't ideal. With DS2 DH was just finishing law school and it was right when the economy tanked.

I guess I just thought he might change his mind once we were married, owned a house, had a career as an attorney for 7 years, had been together for 13 years, were in our 30's, etc. It just didn't seem like a big deal to me to go from 2 kids to 3 at that point. Don't people change their minds all the time about the number of kids they want? Lots of people I know do. I guess my DH is just not one of them.

So yeah, I guess you can call me naive for thinking he would change his mind one day because he saw how important it was to me.

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It is really hard and I would be upset that he did it without agreement. :( But it would be hard to go back into babydom when the oldest is a tween and youngest is 7, I can understand that. I'm sorry.


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[TwinFoxes]

I'm sorry...I know how painful it is, I've been hoping for a few years DH would change his mind about having more kids but he just won't. In a way, even though it's very painful now, maybe the finality of a vasectomy will allow you to move forward?

One of my BFFs from HS wanted more kids, her DH was done at one. Him getting a vasectomy did help her to move on. (She was actually afraid of an oops baby though.)

[citymama]

Would you change your mind if you saw how important it was to him? It goes both ways.

I'm sorry you're hurting but your husband has the right to not want anymore kids and be proactive about it.

It's still totally legitimate for Latia to feel heartbroken and betrayed. The fact of knowing how your spouse felt 15 years ago or 15 months ago doesn't mean you stop feeling the pain.

It doesn't help a marriage/relationship when one partner acts unilaterally on something so important. Just as it wouldn't be right for one or other partner to mess with birth control they were supposed to be in charge of to get pregnant or make her pregnant without the other partners' consent.

I was not ready for DH to have a vasectomy when he first wanted to (when DD2 was a month old). I was aware he really wanted to go through with it, he was aware I wasn't psychologically ready to give up the idea of 3 kids (which I never wanted to begin with, but taking it out of the picture in reality was much tougher). He waited till I was ready and then went ahead with my consent. It is his body, for sure, and he has the right to do it - but this is also about some shared decisions and basic trust in a committed relationship.

[egoldber]

I am so sorry Latia. :(

The roughest patch in our marriage, which I consider to be very strong, was when DH and I were in a disagreement about whether or not to have more children after we lost our second child. He had such a different perspective than I did, and we could not even talk about it without me dissolving into tears. We did see a therapist and it helped a great deal.

And while I understand him not wanting more kids, it was hurtful of him to make the decision unilaterally without your input.

I really recommend seeing that therapist so you can can work together and move on.

[essnce629]

Would you change your mind if you saw how important it was to him? It goes both ways.

I'm sorry you're hurting but your husband has the right to not want anymore kids and be proactive about it.
Yes, logically I get this and understand that it's his body, his choice. Which is also why I sought out a therapist as soon as he told me he was getting it done. The therapist wanted to work with me to help me get to the place where I was ok with the decision and it was more of a mutual, not one-sided decision. Which is why she asked him to postpone the procedure or if he had to go through with it to at least freeze his sperm so I could be more ok with it. I guess I don't understand why he postponed it but then ended up doing it right before our counseling started and without freezing his sperm. It just felt like a punch in the stomach to me.

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[Corie]

It just felt like a punch in the stomach to me.




I can see where you would feel that way. I really can. But I can also see it from your husband's side too. If your husband
read your thread from 2013 where you said that you were taking the mini-pill (instead of the regular birth control pill)
because you heard it was a less effective birth control in the hopes of having an "oopsie" baby,
he would probably feel like he was punched in the stomach too.

I'm just having a really hard time feeling sorry for you when I know that you tried to deceive him too.

[essnce629]

I can see where you would feel that way. I really can. But I can also see it from your husband's side too. If your husband
read your thread from 2013 where you said that you were taking the mini-pill (instead of the regular birth control pill)
because you heard it was a less effective birth control in the hopes of having an "oopsie" baby,
he would probably feel like he was punched in the stomach too.

I'm just having a really hard time feeling sorry for you when I know that you tried to deceive him too.
Well I wasn't taking it for the sole purpose of it being less effective, I took it because I was breastfeeding for 3 years and continued to take it after that for another 2 years. My doctor never had a problem with that and even though I hoped it would fail it never did in 5 years time.

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[turtledove]

I'm sorry Latia. I can absolutely understand why you feel so hurt. I hope counseling can help the two of you, hugs!

[*myfoursons]

I guess I can't get over that he trusted you with birth control and you chose an option hoping to get pregnant. That seems like a huge deception to me. Did he know about that?

[Kindra178]

Guys, the mini pill isn't the rhythm method. It's still a viable bc form that doesn't rely on opinion or charting. Her off the cuff comment from 2013 doesn't need to brought up now.


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[westwoodmom04]

I'm really sorry you are in such pain. It seems like each of you was willing to go ahead with your own plan despite knowing the other wanted the opposite. I hope that time and therapy can help you find common ground, if that is what you want,

[ett]

Guys, the mini pill isn't the rhythm method. It's still a viable bc form that doesn't rely on opinion or charting. Her off the cuff comment from 2013 doesn't need to brought up now.


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Thank you for posting this.

Latia - I'm so sorry. Hoping that counseling can get both of you through this. Sending you lots of hugs.

[TwinFoxes]

It doesn't help a marriage/relationship when one partner acts unilaterally on something so important. Just as it wouldn't be right for one or other partner to mess with birth control they were supposed to be in charge of to get pregnant or make her pregnant without the other partners' consent.


Some people seem to believe that's what happened. I don't know why. I don't remember this 2013 thread. Regardless, I think it's understandable that Latia's upset. Two wrongs don't make a right.

[California]

Latia, it does sound like you were in a place where it'd be reasonable to entertain the hope of having a baby. We all hear about BC failure rates, and how 50% of babies are unplanned. It can definitely stir up "I wish..." sentiments if you are thinking about having another baby. Several of my friends have shared with me that they secretly longed for their BC to fail. It doesn't seem like that uncommon a feeling. It's not the same at all as not using BC. It's just knowing that the possibility is out there and hoping it will happen for you, too. So sorry that you had the miscarriage and that your DH did this. Hope your therapist knows some good ways to help you sort through the strong emotions this brings up.

[essnce629]

Guys, the mini pill isn't the rhythm method. It's still a viable bc form that doesn't rely on opinion or charting. Her off the cuff comment from 2013 doesn't need to brought up now.


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Yes, thank you. The mini pill worked perfectly fine for 5+ years.

After DS1 was born we used condoms and natural family planning for 5+ years, which did end in an oops DS2 so the mini pill actually ended up being more effective for us. Also, for the past 2 years since my miscarriage DH has used the pull out method exclusively since it was found out I have the MTHFR mutation and that I should never be on estrogen because of the already increased risk of blood clots. I also offered to get an IUD instead of the vasectomy.

Also, I found out the day after DH's vasectomy that he has been going to bars after work with a coworker multiple times a week for several weeks or months and never told me. I'm home with the kids making dinner and fighting with DS2 to do his homework, chores, and take a bath while he's down the street at a bar. Definitely not cool.

Also, just a few weeks ago DH got upset with his father and his dad ended up blurting out "Is DS2 even your son?" much to DH's shock (DS2 looks like me and DS1 looks like DH). And now I'm supposed to spend a week with them in New Orleans for Thanksgiving like everything is peachy. Also, DH's parents never mentioned a word to me after my miscarriage which also stings. So yeah, it's been pretty sucky lately and we have a lot to talk about with the therapist on Friday.

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[Philly Mom]

Yes, thank you. The mini pill worked perfectly fine for 5+ years.

After DS1 was born we used condoms and natural family planning for 5+ years, which did end in an oops DS2 so the mini pill actually ended up being more effective for us. Also, for the past 2 years since my miscarriage DH has used the pull out method exclusively since it was found out I have the MTHFR mutation and that I should never be on estrogen because of the already increased risk of blood clots. I also offered to get an IUD instead of the vasectomy.

Also, I found out the day after DH's vasectomy that he has been going to bars after work with a coworker multiple times a week for several weeks or months and never told me. I'm home with the kids making dinner and fighting with DS2 to do his homework, chores, and take a bath while he's down the street at a bar. Definitely not cool.

Also, just a few weeks ago DH got upset with his father and his dad ended up blurting out "Is DS2 even your son?" much to DH's shock (DS2 looks like me and DS1 looks like DH). And now I'm supposed to spend a week with them in New Orleans for Thanksgiving like everything is peachy. Also, DH's parents never mentioned a word to me after my miscarriage which also stings. So yeah, it's been pretty sucky lately and we have a lot to talk about with the therapist on Friday.

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That is an awful week. Putting aside DH for a second, I hope your FIL can give you a sincere apology. That is really inexcusable, obnoxious and hurtful. With regards to DH, I hope the therapist can help reduce some of your justified pain.


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[TwinFoxes]

DH got upset with his father and his dad ended up blurting out "Is DS2 even your son?" much to DH's shock (DS2 looks like me and DS1 looks like DH). And now I'm supposed to spend a week with them in New Orleans for Thanksgiving like everything is peachy. Also, DH's parents never mentioned a word to me after my miscarriage which also stings.

Wow. I am so sorry. I would have a hard time having a relationship with them after that comment. How do they treat the boys? Ugh, just so awful.

[jren]

Yes, thank you. The mini pill worked perfectly fine for 5+ years.

After DS1 was born we used condoms and natural family planning for 5+ years, which did end in an oops DS2 so the mini pill actually ended up being more effective for us. Also, for the past 2 years since my miscarriage DH has used the pull out method exclusively since it was found out I have the MTHFR mutation and that I should never be on estrogen because of the already increased risk of blood clots. I also offered to get an IUD instead of the vasectomy.

Also, I found out the day after DH's vasectomy that he has been going to bars after work with a coworker multiple times a week for several weeks or months and never told me. I'm home with the kids making dinner and fighting with DS2 to do his homework, chores, and take a bath while he's down the street at a bar. Definitely not cool.

Also, just a few weeks ago DH got upset with his father and his dad ended up blurting out "Is DS2 even your son?" much to DH's shock (DS2 looks like me and DS1 looks like DH). And now I'm supposed to spend a week with them in New Orleans for Thanksgiving like everything is peachy. Also, DH's parents never mentioned a word to me after my miscarriage which also stings. So yeah, it's been pretty sucky lately and we have a lot to talk about with the therapist on Friday.

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I'm so sorry! It seems like you and DH are in a really rocky spot in your relationship all around. I didn't want more than one, but after finding out DH wanted another so badly we did end up adopting again. But he was willing to go for the rest of his life without telling me he really wished for another. Only found out by accident when another family member was adopting. And if I really just couldn't do another (adoption can be a huge roller coaster), he said he would've accepted that.

[cuca_]

I am so sorry you are going through this. That is a lot to deal with.

[wellyes]

In your shoes, I'd say to your DH: let's skip New Orleans this year and focus on our family being strong and happy together.
I strongly suspect that spending a week on his family's turf, with their low level but overt hostility, will not be good for you or your marriage.

[trcy]

In your shoes, I'd say to your DH: let's skip New Orleans this year and focus on our family being strong and happy together.
I strongly suspect that spending a week on his family's turf, with their low level but overt hostility, will not be good for you or your marriage.

I agree with this. Good luck OP!


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[doberbrat]

I'm with Wellyes - no way would I be going to NO right now. Personally, I would welcome a break to think things over and grieve privately. But that does open another HUGE can of worms of course.

This issue is so hard - I can see his point. He is taking steps to ensure that he does not have kids that he clearly does not want. - either by accident or trickery. In some ways, its a responsible thing to do.

On the flip side, doing it KNOWING how against it you were and yet going ahead and having it done in secret w/o saving any sperm seems like he went out of his way to hurt you. This isnt a walk in procedure. It is normally scheduled weeks if not months in advance. He should have been upfront with you about it.

I'm a little curious about how he is acting now. Is he sorry about how this is making you feel? Did he not realize how hurt you'd be? Is it possible he somehow thought you'd be relieved not to have to fight about it any more?

[BunnyBee]

Yes, thank you. The mini pill worked perfectly fine for 5+ years.

After DS1 was born we used condoms and natural family planning for 5+ years, which did end in an oops DS2 so the mini pill actually ended up being more effective for us. Also, for the past 2 years since my miscarriage DH has used the pull out method exclusively since it was found out I have the MTHFR mutation and that I should never be on estrogen because of the already increased risk of blood clots. I also offered to get an IUD instead of the vasectomy.

Also, I found out the day after DH's vasectomy that he has been going to bars after work with a coworker multiple times a week for several weeks or months and never told me. I'm home with the kids making dinner and fighting with DS2 to do his homework, chores, and take a bath while he's down the street at a bar. Definitely not cool.

Also, just a few weeks ago DH got upset with his father and his dad ended up blurting out "Is DS2 even your son?" much to DH's shock (DS2 looks like me and DS1 looks like DH). And now I'm supposed to spend a week with them in New Orleans for Thanksgiving like everything is peachy. Also, DH's parents never mentioned a word to me after my miscarriage which also stings. So yeah, it's been pretty sucky lately and we have a lot to talk about with the therapist on Friday.

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Three accidental pregnancies to someone who maybe didn't want any kids would make anyone feel very out of control over his life. Will he seek individual counseling too? It's good that you are to be able to express your hurt and pain without consequence and be able to find the "right" way to voice it in your joint counseling.

I agree with Wellyes that New Orleans sounds like a disaster waiting to happen. :hug:

[Momit]

I am so sorry for this awful week you're having.

[icunurse]

If the situation were reversed (he wanted a child, you absolutely didn't, couldn't use condoms because of an allergy, you kept getting accidentally pregnant, and your method of protection was pulling out), I imagine a lot of people would be fine with you choosing something permanent. As the single/main source of income, working long hours, and maybe seeing some balance happening between finances and the kids ages, I don't blame your husband for wanting a vasectomy. I personally don't even think he should have to freeze sperm. No means no. But to schedule it behind your back, that says something. For you to always be hoping for an oops (and I'm sure he feels that) and have a breakdown over his decision/feelings that were known to you from the start, that says something. He can say he is getting a vasectomy, you have the right to grieve, but there is a whole heightened level going on here and you two need to decide if it's something you can get past with help.

I would also consider sending just the kids to NO, if you think the environment there is ok for them. You and your husband need some time to talk.

[khm]

I guess I don't really get the therapist pushing for frozen sperm. To me, that really seems like offering her hope where there is none.

He doesn't want another child. Full stop. He's was pretty clearly not going to change his mind. I think the therapist telling him to freeze his sperm and to wait on the vasectomy probably freaked him out. There already had been oops babies/pregnancies. He knew what that felt like, it affected/scared him badly. It wasn't a happy accident to HIM, it cemented to him that he did not want to be in that circumstance again.

I do know couples where the oops baby did not end up to be a blessing. You can love the baby, but still hate that the course of your life/relationship/family is changed. It is toxic and hard to overcome.

I'm so very sorry that you are hurting. It is clear how sad you are. I hope you both can get past this.

[elbenn]

That is an awful week. Putting aside DH for a second, I hope your FIL can give you a sincere apology. That is really inexcusable, obnoxious and hurtful. With regards to DH, I hope the therapist can help reduce some of your justified pain.


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That comment was so over the line. It is clear from your many posts on this board that you are a wonderful mother and your DH's parents should be grateful that their grandsons have you as their mother.

[Kindra178]

Did your inlaws even know about your miscarriage? My inlaws didn't know about mine. I don't think people of that generation talk about such things. It's private.

[div_0305]

I'm sorry for the pain you are in. It sounds like there's so much more going on here. I'm not sure why your DH would tell you what your FIL said--it's hurtful, and I hope he verbally smacked his father for the comment---but overall I think he should've kept it to himself to spare you the pain of hearing such disrespectful and offensive talk. His going to bars after work--did you find out by mistake or did he actually come clean about it? That is definitely a sign of more avoidance here--either of you, the family, his responsibilities or a combo of things....very concerning and he needs to communicate with you about these things instead of engaging in self-destructive behavior towards the marriage. Are you both perhaps passive-aggressive to one another? That would be what I'd want a therapist to help put a stop to ASAP, especially before your children learn this behavior as their M.O. They pick up on these things so easily and don't even realize when they start modeling the same behavior.

[Corie]

Some people seem to believe that's what happened. I don't know why. I don't remember this 2013 thread. Regardless, I think it's understandable that Latia's upset. Two wrongs don't make a right.


Here is Latia's thread that I was referencing.

http://windsorpeak.com/vbulletin/showthread.php?457223-Anyone-get-pregnant-on-BCPs-after-taking-antibiotics

[schrocat]

" I never went back on the regular pill after finishing breastfeeding (1 year ago) because I'd love an oops and the mini-pill is supposedly less effective than the combo pill. "

I'm sorry you're in so much pain. I guess the question is do you love your husband enough to give up the dream of a third child?

[ExcitedMamma]

I'm sorry about everything you are going through! Does your DH blame you for the pregnancies? Is the bar behavior new? It does sound like for him there may be deeper issues. Was he offended by FIL's comment? Was he telling you about it to vent or to hurt you? I agree about avoiding the trip right now, it sounds like that could make a tense situation even worse. Is he willing to go back to couples counseling to help you guys work it out? I do think it might help you to try and see things from his side and decide if it's worth it to you to find common ground and move forward. Best of luck!

[specialp]

I hope you two can get to a point where you not only hear each other, but believe each other. I understand holding out hope even when someone has been as adamant as your DH has for years about not wanting more. But when his reaction to a 3rd opps pregnancy was you either have an abortion or get divorced, I think the line was well drawn. I can’t imagine having hope he would change his mind after that. What were those 3 weeks like? Were you preparing for divorce? How do you go back to married life after that is said/decided?

As bad as I think it was for him to do this without counseling... and I think that was terrible, I also think the sperm freezing suggestion was a total disaster to even mention. You would have never come to a resolution with a frozen possibility out there and DH absolutely did not ever want a 3rd so what would be the point for him?

I am so sorry you are heartbroken. I can’t imagine being in this situation, but am wishing you peace and all the best.

[DualvansMommy]

Virtual hugs for you. So sorry for you to go through this, it does sound like DH is hurting too in his own way. Hence the bar behavior perhaps? Both of you were on completely different pages when it comes to number of kids, and even perhaps the timing of having them as well. I think the pain, anger and all other hard emotions are heightened when spouses are at completely opposites of the issue. Think the trip to NO would not be the best idea to do, like pp said. I KNOW I wouldn't enjoy myself when I'm grieving and trying to fix the marriage, never mind the terrible inconsiderate FIL for his comments! Would your DH even want to go or even enjoy himself??

I would also think for DH to issue his declaration like that; divorce or an abortion with you deciding on the baby before the miscarriage occurred. It seems, perhaps that DH may have been simmering on it all this time, and that must have affected you somehow. How were things between two of you from that time being till you had the miscarriage? Counseling is a very good idea at this point, and perhaps you can go to a grief group to address your miscarriage loss which may help you to move on in better frame of mind.

Hopefully both of you will get to a better place. Otherwise, focus on yourself and think what you really want for yourself, your marriage and family. Best of luck. Sorry for such a tough time!


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[mackmama]

I'm very sorry for your grief. I'd suggest asking your couples therapist for an extended session (for example 1.5 hours) or multiple sessions for a few weeks so you both get the opportunity for some deeper work right now.

I would NOT go to New Orleans and would not send my kids there based on where you all are combined with FIL's horrible comment.

Thinking about you.

[Tenasparkl]

That comment was so over the line. It is clear from your many posts on this board that you are a wonderful mother and your DH's parents should be grateful that their grandsons have you as their mother.

I agree! I'm sorry that you had to hear something so hurtful.

[Pear]

This strikes close to home for me. We had a point in time where DH was ready for a vasectomy and I wasn't. Our solution was fairly extreme (technical abstinence), but it gave me the time I needed to come to terms with the finality while also guaranteeing we did not have an oops. The thing there was that we were still working as partners to come up with a solution.

I'm sorry he felt he had to move forward on this without you. I hope that you can find a way to forgive one another and focus on what you do have. Counseling is an excellent idea. So is skipping the pressure cooker of a family trip. Stay home for the holidays and focus on your nuclear family. Give yourselves time to reconnect.

[citymama]

I hope that you can find a way to forgive one another and focus on what you do have. Counseling is an excellent idea. So is skipping the pressure cooker of a family trip. Stay home for the holidays and focus on your nuclear family. Give yourselves time to reconnect.

I second these suggestions. Be kind with yourselves and each other.

[#2ontheway]

If the situation were reversed (he wanted a child, you absolutely didn't, couldn't use condoms because of an allergy, you kept getting accidentally pregnant, and your method of protection was pulling out), I imagine a lot of people would be fine with you choosing something permanent. As the single/main source of income, working long hours, and maybe seeing some balance happening between finances and the kids ages, I don't blame your husband for wanting a vasectomy. I personally don't even think he should have to freeze sperm. No means no. But to schedule it behind your back, that says something. For you to always be hoping for an oops (and I'm sure he feels that) and have a breakdown over his decision/feelings that were known to you from the start, that says something. He can say he is getting a vasectomy, you have the right to grieve, but there is a whole heightened level going on here and you two need to decide if it's something you can get past with help.


This really resonated with me.

I really wanted another baby, and my husband did not. He got a vasectomy against my wishes (though I knew he'd scheduled it). Funny thing, we have male factor infertility so the chances of a natural pregnancy were really really small. But he really didn't want an unexpected pregnancy.

I also agree that your therapist's suggestion to freeze sperm seems strange to me. We still have frozen embryos from IVF, and I feel like in many respects that has prolonged my grieving - like the possibility is still out there even though now I'm too old for a pregnancy (I'm just about emotionally ready to get rid of them).

I'm so sorry you are going through this and I think you have some tough issues to sort through. Give yourself some good space and self care.

[TwoBees]

I'm so sorry. Hugs.

[twotimesblue]

I'm so sad for you, OP. The desire for another baby can be all-consuming, and while your DH certainly has the right to control his reproductive choices, the way he went about this seems awfully unkind. If I remember correctly (and I apologize if I'm referring to a different poster), your DH gave you an ultimatum over changing your kids' last names prior to your wedding... it's hard to get a snapshot of a person from a few forum posts, but he comes across as quite controlling. I hope that counseling can help you get over this as a couple.

[Melaine]

I am so sorry, girl. That is such a stressful situation. I hope you guys can forgive each other and build back the trust.

[american_mama]

You are so open on these boards and I am sorry that your words from years ago are being used against you. None of us know your marriage or your DH, or how the birth control you or he was using was discussed and practiced in the walls of your house. But I can clearly imagine how basic this central disagreement about number of kids is to a marriage, and how painful it is to act in two opposite directions about it, and I really feel for you.

[niccig]

Hope you're doing OK. I agree with the suggestion to get some emergency therapy sessions in with DH. We did that once with our therapist, had longer sessions a couple days apart to get through an issue rather than normal sessions spread out. It really helped to get us through it. Our therapist is actually near you, and she works some Saturdays which is only time DH could reliably be there, I know your DH has crazy work schedule too. She doesn't take insurance though, so it's pricey, but worth it.


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[essnce629]

Thought I'd give an update.

I think I've waffled from being super angry with DH to just super super sad. I've been crying almost daily, not sleeping, and not hungry at all. I've lost 15lbs since my surgery in July. We finally had our couples counseling session yesterday and the therapist said I was the saddest, most detached she's ever seen me and that there was a very palpable divide between us. There was lots of lots of crying (by me) during our session. She took us way back to when we first met 14 years ago and retraced everything because there's still resentment and misunderstandings from when we conceived DS1 (3 months after we first met) and on wards. The big problem between us is that all the big decisions in our life have basically been made unilaterally and not together. And again, this decision to have a vasectomy was made unilaterally which is a big problem. She wants to see me for 2 more sessions on my own before bringing DH back into the sessions. She believes we can get through this. He wants to. I don't know where I stand. I have a lot of issues stemming from my childhood (dad was physically abusive towards my mom, they had an on and off again marriage, my dad didn't cherish me, and my dad was a serial cheater who had TWO additional children on the side while still married to my mom) and all those issues are in my subconscious and are projecting on my marriage and have basically led to a distrust of all men and males in particular, even though DH is nothing like my dad. I obviously did not have a positive role model of what a healthy relationship is growing up and basically latched on to the first guy that was ever nice to me. She says my desire for a 3rd child is symbolic of DH "choosing me" in our marriage since everything else was a default and not done together or out of love. Also, it's not just a 3rd child I want, but a daughter that I've longed for my entire life. And I think that may be from my mistrust in males, fear of them leaving me, and just the only strong relationship I have is with my mom and I guess that is the same kind of relationship I wanted to have with a daughter. Also, my best friend has 2 boys as well and she asked me 3 years ago to help her sway for a girl which was always her dream as well. So I basically I researched a ton for her, lived on gender swaying boards for the past several years and helped her come up with a plan. It took over 2 years and 3 miscarriages, but she finally had her baby girl in May and I was there for the birth as her doula. I thought that would be healing for me and help me move on, but it just cemented how much I desired a daughter and made me even more depressed. I felt like I was so close, only to have it ripped away when I had the miscarriage. So yeah, I guess I need to find a way to find peace in never having a daughter as that is a big problem. I have a friend with 3 boys who is 43 and the feeling just never went away for her. She did 2 rounds of IVF lately and had 3 miscarriages and still didn't want to give up. Finally her husband suggested they adopt a baby girl and they just did last month. Seeing her daily posts about how happy she is and complete just makes me so sad. And then I wish I wasn't a SAHM and had my own income and could just go out and adopt my own daughter and raise her myself. Anyways, yeah, lots of issues to work out with the therapist!!!!

[essnce629]

Oh, and I definitely agree that a trip with DH's parents for the first time in 14 years is not a good idea. The timing is just WAY off and I agree that we need to be working on our marriage and his parents aren't helping. BUT, the entire trip has already been scheduled, the airbnb apartment and plane tickets have been booked, the itinerary has been planned and all the tours have been paid for so looks like it's too late. I told DH it wasn't a good idea before anything had been booked and he said I was just making things with his parents worse.

[essnce629]

Wow. I am so sorry. I would have a hard time having a relationship with them after that comment. How do they treat the boys? Ugh, just so awful.

They basically see the kids once a year for 2 or 3 days when they visit. They are not, and have never been, hands on parents or grandparents. They sent their own boys to boarding school and aren't really into kids. They spend multiple weeks in Greece and the Carribean every year, but can usually only find time to visit us for a weekend. They talk to the boys on the phone twice a year on their birthdays and Christmas. DH talks to his parents on the phone almost every weekend but they never ask to talk to the kids.




I would also consider sending just the kids to NO, if you think the environment there is ok for them. You and your husband need some time to talk.

His parents would never agree to that. His dad has been retired for years and his mom has never worked (they're in their early 60s), but hanging out with kids is just not their thing. My mom, yes. She takes DS1 every summer for an entire week for grandma and grandson time even though she still works full time. They go to the beach, the fair, Legoland, the science center, the movies, etc, etc. Several years ago, before DS2 was even born, DH's parents agreed to "babysit" 5 year old DS1 once we put him to bed so we could go out for New Years Eve. A few hours later they called us to come back since DS1 had a pee accident. Then his mom complained multiple times the next day about how tired she was since she was up washing and then drying pee sheets in the middle of the night (something I would have done if she would have left them out for me). That was the one and only time they've been alone with the kids.

[essnce629]

I'm sorry about everything you are going through! Does your DH blame you for the pregnancies? Is the bar behavior new? It does sound like for him there may be deeper issues. Was he offended by FIL's comment? Was he telling you about it to vent or to hurt you? I agree about avoiding the trip right now, it sounds like that could make a tense situation even worse. Is he willing to go back to couples counseling to help you guys work it out? I do think it might help you to try and see things from his side and decide if it's worth it to you to find common ground and move forward. Best of luck!

Yes, he blames me for all the pregnancies. Even the first one where DS1 was conceived because he took the condom off in the middle of sex even though he knew I was not on the pill. He says he doesn't remember that. DS2 was conceived 3 months before the date he had agreed to start TTC (the plan was to get pregnant, but be done with law school and have moved back to CA before giving birth), so I honestly didn't understand why he was so angry. He says that he had agreed to just get me off his back but really wasn't serious. DS1 was already 5 at the time and I got pregnant in September when the plan was to start trying in December. I have birth to DS2 5 days after DH graduated from law school. We moved back to CA when DS2 was 9 weeks old.

The bar behavior is new. He started a new job exactly a year ago for a new company and it's been super stressful at work lately because he thinks the company is going under and his boss just quit a few weeks ago and people are leaving in droves (DH is currently looking for a new job as well). So according to him, he and his coworker started going out to bars once things at work started getting crazy. He has since shown me texts with his coworker so I know he's not lying about who he was going with. My big issue is he said they sometimes go out for drinks near work because traffic is so bad they don't want to leave right away (it's an hour commute). But I am 100% not ok with him getting 3 beers and then hopping in the car and driving home for an hour. To me, that is extremely wreckless and irresponsible and something a 20 year old would do not a 34 year old married father with 2 kids (one who is a teenager and very aware right now of alcohol and peoples' behavior around it). I don't drink at all also.

Yes, he was extremely shocked and offended by FIL's comment. He initially didn't want to tell me, so no, I think he was definitely telling me to vent and not hurt me. It did hurt me though when he saw his father in person a few weeks later (for his grandfather's funeral) and had no intention of bringing it up or confronting him. He said I should just let it go. I told him he had to confront his father and ask if he's had these feelings about DS2 for the past 7.5 years. His father admitted that yes, he had because DS2 doesn't look like DH AND because I sometimes go to San Diego to visit my mom without DH?!?! So basically he was accusing me of being unfaithful because I visit my mom like once a year without taking DH!

[essnce629]

I'm so sad for you, OP. The desire for another baby can be all-consuming, and while your DH certainly has the right to control his reproductive choices, the way he went about this seems awfully unkind. If I remember correctly (and I apologize if I'm referring to a different poster), your DH gave you an ultimatum over changing your kids' last names prior to your wedding... it's hard to get a snapshot of a person from a few forum posts, but he comes across as quite controlling. I hope that counseling can help you get over this as a couple.

Yes, DH agreed to get married if I agreed to change the kids' last names from mine to his because he said it bothered him. DS1 was against that and I wrote about it here since he was 10 at the time and thought he should have a say in the matter. We eventually decided to hyphenate the kids' names but I left it up to DH to actually do it. He never did and 3 years later the kids still have my last name.

[niccig]

As painful as it is to hear all of this from DH, it's better for it to be out in the open, rather than fester and grow resentment. It's not going to be easy to discuss all of this, but you need to be honest with each other to work through things. Hopefully with counseling, DH can come to realize he did make decisions that led to the 2 boys being conceived. He may not have come out and said "yes, let's have a baby", but he did decide to not use birth control and consequence of that was the boys. There also sounds like some resentment that he can't go out and do things friends are doing because he has a family. Even though my DH did make conscious decision to start trying to have a family, he struggled and still does a bit, that our spare time is so limited as always something with DS or the house - actually, the house is the biggest time suck for us since I returned to work as it all has to happen on weekends - a consequence of us deciding for me to work full time. We make decisions and have to deal with consequences, and even not making a decision is a decision in itself that has consequences - e.g., not getting around to changing the boys names is a decision your DH made.

Marriage counseling made DH and I realize that we needed to be a team and pulling together in the same direction. Communication was key for that, and we're better though still not great sometimes. I was better than DH for realizing that my actions do impact the marriage and the family and made decisions accordingly. DH was still thinking about impact on himself and then DS and I, but he's changed that way of thinking now.

You also need to work through the issues you have that are impacting your marriage. You don't have to make up from your childhood with the boys; accept the family that you have. And gently, it's not written anywhere that only mothers and daughters have a close relationship. I know many mothers of boys that have close relationships into adulthood and many mothers of girls that don't have a close relationship. Neither my sisters or I have a close relationship with our mother, and DH has a closer relationship with his mother. It's not a gender thing, but a personality thing. And I wonder if the close relationship with your mother had more to do with her being a single parent and you an only child, rather than the mother-daughter dynamic, as it was the 2 of you together all the time.

As for the family trip to New Orleans. I can see why you may still want to go, as DH's family have so little to do with the boys. We were in a very bad spot in our marriage and had a family trip with the ILs 4 weeks later. I did decide to go so DS would have the family experience. DH and I agreed to not discuss our marital issues while we were gone, nor were the issues to be discussed with his family. Our marriage counselor was big on discussions happen between the 2 of us and with her, and not to bring 3rd parties into things. I loaded up the kindle with the books, had sudoku games etc - basically things to keep me occupied. I was there and part of things, but also kept to myself when I needed to. Don't expect any help from the grandparents, as it sounds like they weren't involved parents so probably won't be involved grandparents - their loss.

As for your ILs - I'm saying this gently, but I don't think they will ever accept you as a DIL and to some extent, the boys as their grandchildren. You're too different from what they thought their extended family would be. You may need to accept that you'll never have the relationship with them or the boys with them that you want. My MIL has struggled with me as I wasn't raised in US and I do things differently to her. She can't cope with different, and even little things, throw her off. I've accepted we won't be friends and I no longer try to get her to like me, and coming to that realization has made the relationship easier. I felt a lot less pressure once I let go of the expectations I was holding for the relationship. Now that said, your DH should be protecting you and your boys from comments like FILs - I hope DS2 never finds out that the ILs thought that about him. Hopefully counseling can help with your DH standing up for you and the boys when needed.

Hugs and hope the two of you can work through everything and come out stronger together.

[mommy111]

Latia, I am so sorry for what you're going through!!

[Pear]

I think you should talk to your therapist about if changing your division of labor might positively impact your relationship. I was a sahm for many years and only went back to work because a plum position dropped into my lap. I fully support it as the best choice for some families. In the situations you are describing, I wonder if changing your economic power might be good for your you.

[JBaxter]

If I were you I would make sure I had a back up plan. Make sure you have a education that could support yourself in the event he decides to just say the hell with it. From everything you have posted its been a relationship long struggle and there is deep-seated issues. I know you said you were in nursing school years ago I hope you finished and are licensed if not you may want to do so as a plan B. I can see your points on a lot of things but I can also see his point of view.

[TwinFoxes]

If I were you I would make sure I had a back up plan. Make sure you have a education that could support yourself in the event he decides to just say the hell with it. From everything you have posted its been a relationship long struggle and there is deep-seated issues. I know you said you were in nursing school years ago I hope you finished and are licensed if not you may want to do so as a plan B. I can see your points on a lot of things but I can also see his point of view.

I think this is sound advice. At least you live in a community property state. (Not saying your are/should break up, but these issues are serious.)

[Kindra178]

I agree with others about pursuing a full time career. I think you should focus on improving the life you have as opposed to the life you don't and won't have. Your dh seemingly doesn't/didn't want any children, so at this juncture, focus on yourself and your kids. Surely focus on your marriage, but before you fix that, you got to get yourself in a better place. Instead of spending time on pregnancy boards, start researching careers. By focusing on you, everything might get better and your dh might feel less economic pressure.

[schrocat]

If I were you I would make sure I had a back up plan. Make sure you have a education that could support yourself in the event he decides to just say the hell with it. From everything you have posted its been a relationship long struggle and there is deep-seated issues. I know you said you were in nursing school years ago I hope you finished and are licensed if not you may want to do so as a plan B. I can see your points on a lot of things but I can also see his point of view.

I agree. I hope you can work through this but you need a back up plan. I know how you feel about having a baby girl to some degree. I only had a daughter after coming to terms with having only boys but I cried a ton while coming to terms with having only boys.

[MamaKath]

(((Latia))) I read through much of the thread, I am glad that most people are offering support. I was in a very similar situation a long time ago when I was active in the boards here. It was very hard to face the struggles of coping with a miscarriage, differences in our desires for more children, other marital issues, and then a blatant disregard for my desire for him to hold off at a minimum. It was horrific to face alone, and most people at the time couldn't understand that it was completely against my wishes. We are in an incredibly different place in our relationship now, but he knows that it is still painful for me to think about. I am glad you have a counselor that is helping you face your individual issues, along with your issues as a couple. You are in my p&pt, please feel free to inbox me if you need to chat. For whatever reason, I can't inbox you from my phone.

[Tondi G]

(((HUGS))) Latia. My BIL went and got a vasectomy against my SIL's wishes and pleading for him not to. He got NO sympathy from her when he was recovering from his procedure. I was sad for my SIL when I heard he went about it like that. As a mommy of 2 boys who longs for a DD, I can understand why you are so sad. My DH has tossed the vasectomy around in the last few years and I've always said I wasn't ready for something so permanent yet. I turn 40 tomorrow and he is 41. He just the other day mentioned that maybe he should see about that vasectomy ... cause he thinks we are now too old to have a 3rd. :( I hope you are able to work through all of this with your DH and find peace with everything.

[wellyes]

Oh, and I definitely agree that a trip with DH's parents for the first time in 14 years is not a good idea. The timing is just WAY off and I agree that we need to be working on our marriage and his parents aren't helping. BUT, the entire trip has already been scheduled, the airbnb apartment and plane tickets have been booked, the itinerary has been planned and all the tours have been paid for so looks like it's too late. I told DH it wasn't a good idea before anything had been booked and he said I was just making things with his parents worse.

I think that is a man who needs to reassess his priorities for his family loyalties. I'm so sorry.

[ray7694]

The strong desire to throw the marriage away for both of you is really alarming to me. I hope and pray you both can forgive and strengthen your marriage through lots of work. I think you both need to think about the other 2 sweet kids that don't have a voice and want happy healthy parents together or not. I don't know your marriage and if it is savable but want you to take in to consideration a divorce would have on your kids.

[gymnbomb]

The strong desire to throw the marriage away for both of you is really alarming to me. I hope and pray you both can forgive and strengthen your marriage through lots of work. I think you both need to think about the other 2 sweet kids that don't have a voice and want happy healthy parents together or not. I don't know your marriage and if it is savable but want you to take in to consideration a divorce would have on your kids.

While I think this is really good advice, I think it is equally important to consider what staying together would be like for the kids. Some relationships just need some hard work and are worth saving. Others are truly toxic and are a very bad environment for kids. I know my childhood was far better with a single mom and then a loving step father than it would have been if my mom had stayed with my biological father. I didn't necessarily know that when I was 6 and they split up, but by the time I was a young teen (and I maintained a relatively good relationship with him up until about a year ago) it was very clear.

[ray7694]

I'm not advocating to stay together. I think if it is salvageable or not the other kids need to be considered.

[gymnbomb]

I'm not advocating to stay together. I think if it is salvageable or not the other kids need to be considered.

Totally agree, and certainly hope it is salvageable if OP wants it to be. :)


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[firstbaby]

I'm so sorry you are going through so much right now. I'm sending you P&PT for peace and that you and DH can work through things. It sounds like there are a lot of issues here and I'm glad you've found a therapist you can trust and you click with.