Help me word this email

[basil]

Last Christmas, when my SIL (DH's sister Alice) was pregnant, their family rented a minivan and drove 6 hours to our house in order to take a car full of baby stuff that we were no longer using. Included was a Fisher-price swing, rock n'play, bouncer, infant car seat, crib and crib mattress, changing table pad, sheets, two huge vacuum bags of clothes, toys, Miracle swaddle blankets, Aden and Anais bibs, swaddles, and sleep sacks, Halo sleep sacks, My Brest Friend nursing pillow, and probably more I've forgotten. [I was kind to myself in my postpartum time, and it was reflected in my excessive purchases...Alice benefited]. It was probably at least $2000 worth of stuff I gave to Alice, and I gave it freely, but I had the understanding that it was a loan and not an outright gift. And should DH and I have another baby it would be coming back. She and her DH basically went through our basement asking "can I have this?" and we said yes to almost everything.

This year my brother's wife Jane is pregnant, due in January. Alice and her parents are again coming to our house for Christmas, but are choosing to fly. They will have an 8 month old baby, so I definitely understand that she doesn't want to drive that far with the baby. And for whatever reason, no one seems to think DH/Alice's parents are capable of driving 6 hours by themselves, though they are in their late 60s and both work, but that's a different post.

I have zero baby stuff to give to Jane. This makes me really sad. I had such nice things that I could give them, and I know they cannot afford the same quality.

I really want to ask Alice to return the stuff she is no longer using. Especially the swing, the Rock n play, the Aden and Anais stuff. I don't want/need the stuff she is probably still using - the crib/mattress, the bouncer, the older clothes, the toys. Jane has started her registry and needs to know what she should register for. I'm actually pretty annoyed that Alice has not offered to send/bring the stuff back, even though she knows that Jane is expecting.

DH says I should have been more clear with Alice that I wanted the things back. I thought I was, but at that time Jane wasn't pregnant, so no firm timeline was given. And if Jane wasn't expecting, I wouldn't want the stuff back. [DH also thinks I prefer my family to his, which I do, but that's a topic for a different post].

Is there a polite way to suggest to Alice that she bring or send some of my things back? She could check a suitcase or mail a box. I guess the swing is gone forever. DH says it will be hard for her flying at Christmas with a baby, but she also has her DH and her parents traveling with her. I feel very impolite suggesting and feel like she should be offering, but she doesn't seem to be.

Or should I just give up and buy a bunch of stuff for Jane from her registry and never give anything to Alice again?

[anonomom]

It doesn't sound like you've asked directly for anything back yet, right? Alice may simply not have thought of giving it back yet, especially if she thinks she may have another child. In her mind, she may not be "done" with it, kwim?

I think straightforward is the way to go here: Hi Alice, we're so happy that Jane is expecting! I would really like for her to be able to use some of the gear that we loaned to you. Specifically, she could use X, Y, and Z. I know you're flying this year, but could you bring as much as you can when you come out at Christmas?

You could also ask Alice to ship the bulkier items directly to Jane and offer to split the cost of it.

[khalloc]

Honestly I think its kind of your fault for loaning items to someone who lives so far away. It was a risk you took when loaning them to her. I would ask nicely for the items back, but realize that you may not get them (especially if its not easily packable in a suitcase. Paying for checked baggage on a flight can get expensive.

[marymoo86]

I agree that she may not have thought about it as she is still using and I wouldn't expect her to ship the larger stuff like the swing and rocknplay. I would just buy those for fear of something happening during shipping and the sheer cost to ship such bulky items. The other items are normal registry stuff so why not register and get new?

[Kindra178]

I honestly don't think you can ask Alice to return anything, especially because she lives relatively far away and is flying to see you. Since you know that your brother doesn't have a ton of money and can't afford the same stuff you have, why can't you just buy him some of that stuff? A swing, a bouncy seat and Aden and Anais stuff isn't that expensive.

Don't you think it's probable/possible that Alice will have another baby and use those items again? I don't think Alice should return anything. Plus, would you really trust the condition of all that stuff when it's been used by someone far away who you don't know all that well?

[musicalgrl]

I can appreciate what you're feeling. You were incredibly generous to share all of that stuff, which in turn saved them a fortune. I agree with anonomom though that it wouldn't occur to me to return baby items if I wasn't sure I was done having babies myself. I know that wasn't the question that you asked, but it's just another perspective since you were frustrated that she hadn't thought to do it. Also, do you know for sure that Jane wants hand-me-downs? Most people I know truly appreciate them, but I also know some who prefer only "new" things when it's their first child.

I'd be inclined to forget about the bigger items like a swing and Rock and Play. If they were driving to you, it would be a different story but unfortunately since they're flying, it's impractical to get them back. The cost of shipping the oversized item, plus the hassle of trying to box it up and get it out with an 8 month old in tow, likely isn't worth it. If there are a few things that you'd like to pass on that she could put into her bags like the Aden and Anais stuff, I don't think it's unreasonable to request them. But keep in mind that since it wasn't stated up front that you'd have that expectation, she may be taken aback by being asked for them. i would simply say something like, "We're really excited to welcome another niece or nephew to our family, and I was hoping to pass along a couple of our most special things to them. Would it be possible to bring ___, ___, and ___ when you come to visit?"

[BunnyBee]

Is someone going to drive there to get it? Jane or you?

[Liziz]

You were incredibly generous to share with Alice.

However, she only has an 8 month old! When someone loaned me baby stuff, I wasn't even vaguely contemplating returning the things when my DD was still 8 months old. So, I don't think your SIL is being rude in the slightest that she hasn't volunteered to return all the stuff. If I were Alice, and I knew you expected the things back (which is sounds like is only questionably clear), I would be expecting to give everything back all at once, sometime way in the future, when I was finished with ALL of it.

That being said, if I was Alice and I knew you wanted/needed some of it back, I'd be happy to make an effort to get it back to you. I think you need to think through what items you specifically want. If you want items that are large that can't be reasonably brought on an airplane or mailed (swing, etc.) then I think you or Jane need to be willing to drive to Alice's house to pick them up. If you want only smaller items like A&A stuff, etc. that would fit in a suitcase or box, then I would email Alice, tell her specifically what you want back, and offer to pay the postage or the extra checked bag fee for her to bring it to you at Christmas. It'd be nice if Alice said "don't worry about it!" in regards to paying, but that's what I think is the right thing to do. If you didn't loan the items with a specific return timeline, it's not fair to expect Alice to go way out of her way to get everything back to you ASAP.

[DualvansMommy]

I can't tell from your post whether you made it clear to your SIL you wanted those items back eventually. If you haven't, then it's your fault you're in this situation right now.

I know I would be annoyed if I was gifted items without any clear say it was a loan, and to be expected to pack all those big ticket items back to you. Something that's gonna cost lot of money, while I know you've been very generous to gift them all those items. But in reality, they're flying so how do you envision those items to be returned to you? Perhaps if you can wait further down the road i.e. Following year when they can make a road trip. That'll be your opportunity to ask for specific items back.

When I was expecting DS1, my cousin loaned us their gorgeous bassinet she used for each of her 4 kids. She made it clear that I could keep it for however long I needed it; i.e. Another pregnancy after DS1 but once we were done with kids and didn't need the bassinet, my cousin wanted it back since it was a heirloom item.




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[basil]

I thought I made it clear to Alice that it was a loan. My DH disagrees. I don't think I can realistically replace everything. It was almost literally everything. I am just so upset thinking about it.

My brother and Jane live a mile from us. And I have nothing to give them for their baby. It is so unfair. I doubt Alice even used half of what I gave her. How could I have not given Alice anything on the whim that Jane may have a baby some day? Especially when Alice rented a van to drive up here and get it last year. Alice is my husbands sister, not some random person.

Alice even took girl stuff even though she was having a boy. Jane is having a girl but in janes country boys get pink and girls get blue. So really Jane could use all of it.

I just think Alice should realize that we would want to gift equally to our siblings and offer to return some things. She was pretty aggressive in asking for the stuff in the first place, so you would think she would know.

None of it is sentimental but it is MY stuff.

[123LuckyMom]

You were incredibly generous to share with Alice.

However, she only has an 8 month old! When someone loaned me baby stuff, I wasn't even vaguely contemplating returning the things when my DD was still 8 months old. So, I don't think your SIL is being rude in the slightest that she hasn't volunteered to return all the stuff. If I were Alice, and I knew you expected the things back (which is sounds like is only questionably clear), I would be expecting to give everything back all at once, sometime way in the future, when I was finished with ALL of it.

That being said, if I was Alice and I knew you wanted/needed some of it back, I'd be happy to make an effort to get it back to you. I think you need to think through what items you specifically want. If you want items that are large that can't be reasonably brought on an airplane or mailed (swing, etc.) then I think you or Jane need to be willing to drive to Alice's house to pick them up. If you want only smaller items like A&A stuff, etc. that would fit in a suitcase or box, then I would email Alice, tell her specifically what you want back, and offer to pay the postage or the extra checked bag fee for her to bring it to you at Christmas. It'd be nice if Alice said "don't worry about it!" in regards to paying, but that's what I think is the right thing to do. If you didn't loan the items with a specific return timeline, it's not fair to expect Alice to go way out of her way to get everything back to you ASAP.

This is what I would say, too. When my child was 8 months old, I wasn't anywhere near finished using all those things you mentioned. If I had borrowed them, even with the caveat that I would return them, I would assume they were being lent to me to use for the duration of my child's infancy. I think if you want the things to go to Jane, you need to go get them or pay for the shipping. And I wouldn't be surprised if Alice felt you were a bit unfair in recalling so many items she's still very much using.

Does Jane have a few months to go on her pregnancy? Maybe you can have a conversation with Alice now about whether she could be done with the some or all of the items by the time Jane's baby arrives so Jane can choose items for her registry accordingly. I'd be kind to Alice, though, not assuming that she's selfish or that she never intended to return things just because she's not planning to drive them out to you at Christmas. Then, at Christmas, maybe you and Alice can brainstorm together how best to get the items to Jane.


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[basil]

This is what I would say, too. When my child was 8 months old, I wasn't anywhere near finished using all those things you mentioned. If I had borrowed them, even with the caveat that I would return them, I would assume they were being lent to me to use for the duration of my child's infancy. I think if you want the things to go to Jane, you need to go get them or pay for the shipping. And I wouldn't be surprised if Alice felt you were a bit unfair in recalling so many items she's still very much using.

Does Jane have a few months to go on her pregnancy? Maybe you can have a conversation with Alice now about whether she could be done with the some or all of the items by the time Jane's baby arrives so Jane can choose items for her registry accordingly. I'd be kind to Alice, though, not assuming that she's selfish or that she never intended to return things just because she's not planning to drive them out to you at Christmas. Then, at Christmas, maybe you and Alice can brainstorm together how best to get the items to Jane.


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When my kids were 8 months I was done with swaddles and swings and rock n plays. And newborn onesies. Alice's son is in 12 months clothes already, so she has a lot she isn't using. Plus all the girl stuff!

Jane is due in early January, so Christmas is really the last time. Her shower is at Thanksgiving.

[ahisma]

I think part of the problem is that you haven't had a conversation with Alice. I'd reach out to her and let her know that Jane is expecting and you'd love to share the items that Alice is done with, or doesn't anticipate using with Jane. Throw in some nice comments about how you love helping your nieces and nephews and are so looking forward to seeing Alice's baby over the holidays - isn't it fun that there is another one coming, etc.

[khm]

I thought I made it clear to Alice that it was a loan. My DH disagrees. I don't think I can realistically replace everything. It was almost literally everything. I am just so upset thinking about it.

My brother and Jane live a mile from us. And I have nothing to give them for their baby. It is so unfair. I doubt Alice even used half of what I gave her. How could I have not given Alice anything on the whim that Jane may have a baby some day? Especially when Alice rented a van to drive up here and get it last year. Alice is my husbands sister, not some random person.

Alice even took girl stuff even though she was having a boy. Jane is having a girl but in janes country boys get pink and girls get blue. So really Jane could use all of it.

I just think Alice should realize that we would want to gift equally to our siblings and offer to return some things. She was pretty aggressive in asking for the stuff in the first place, so you would think she would know.

None of it is sentimental but it is MY stuff.

I think the only way to go about it is to explain nicely to her that it is important to you to pass certain things onto your SIL now that she's pregnant..... and you'll have to probably to go get it yourself.

They are flying. I get that the situation worked out that they could take tons of stuff in the van, but that isn't the situation now. They are 6 hours away with a new baby. It'd be a pretty big burden to her to get this stuff organized, packed up somehow, and returned somehow.....

So, I guess I'd make a list of the things you'd really like to pass on and let her know those items. When you are there, if you see other stuff you'll have to decide if it feels right to add it too.

I do think you need to not lay this all on her, she was aggressive in asking (I get it, it is easy to be jazzed about baby stuff!!), but you didn't decline or hold back the girl stuff.....

I do agree that in her mind, if another baby is a possibility, the thought of getting rid of stuff probably isn't on her radar.

[div_0305]

I think you should ask for the stuff and offer to drive with your brother perhaps to go get it. It would be expensive to ship and pack big items, and to me, 6 hours isn't much of a drive. Just say to Alice that when she's having her second, you'll ask Jane to do the same in return--Alice or her husband can drive and pick up at that time. Even something as simple as "Hi Alice, I'd like to make plans to get the items you borrowed from me for ___ that you're not using for him, and get them to Jane in time for her to set up her nursery and home for her baby girl. I'm thinking of driving up ____ to get the things so you don't have to make the drive with ____. Then when you're ready for number 2, you can come get the items from Jane. Thanks!"

ETA: Why are you having to negotiate this? Your DH should--it's his sister after all. Much easier to be direct about such things based on the relationship.

[Green_Tea]

It sounds like you are mad at yourself and taking it out on Alice.

Please don't ask for the stuff back. She has an eight month old. She's flying with a baby to visit. Don't take out your anger with yourself for not being more clear on her. She's your husband's sister and her baby is just as much your nephew as your sister's baby will be your niece.

Buy your sister a beautiful, extravagant gift and move on.

[basil]

It sounds like you are mad at yourself and taking it out on Alice.

Please don't ask for the stuff back. She has an eight month old. She's flying with a baby to visit. Don't take out your anger with yourself for not being more clear on her. She's your husband's sister and her baby is just as much your nephew as your sister's baby will be your niece.

Buy your sister a beautiful, extravagant gift and move on.

I'm not mad at myself, though I will certainly think more carefully about lending stuff to Alice again.

I am overall mad at DH's entire family for the way they tend to monopolize our Christmas celebrations without even really caring about it in the first place (ex their flight arrives at 2 pm on Christmas Day requiring my DH to leave our party to go pick them up and be gone for 3 hours during Christmas) but don't worry, they don't really care about Christmas dinner that they'll miss. But please don't serve beef or lamb or duck or pork, because they won't eat it. This all actually has very litttle to do with Alice herself though, more Fil and Mil.

[TxCat]

It sounds like you are mad at yourself and taking it out on Alice.

Please don't ask for the stuff back. She has an eight month old. She's flying with a baby to visit. Don't take out your anger with yourself for not being more clear on her. She's your husband's sister and her baby is just as much your nephew as your sister's baby will be your niece.

Buy your sister a beautiful, extravagant gift and move on.

I agree with all of this.

I get that you are frustrated but I think you are being unrealistic and it sounds like you are expecting Alice to read your mind on the return of the baby items. It also sounds like you are frustrated about lending out all the baby gear in the first place. I would chalk that up to a life lesson - if you loan something out, assume that it may never come back to you for any number of reasons.

I think you have two viable options at this point. 1) Gracefully accept that you gave a very nice gift of used baby items to Alice and her husband, buy Jane some lovely gear for her new arrival and move on. 2) Send an email to Alice explaining that you would love to pass some of the gear on to Jane for her new baby and that you and your brother will drive to her house to pick up whatever she is no longer using. The trouble with option 2 is that some of the gear will likely no longer be in the same condition as when you lent it out, and you may no longer want to pass it on to Jane (and Jane may not want it either) AND you risk creating or exacerbating family tensions over something that is pretty trivial in the scheme of things. Yes, it was a lot of gear. But, you and your DH are fortunate enough to have great careers that are well-compensated - you can absorb the loss of these baby items and still gift for your new niece better than some others. Be grateful to be in a position where you can give generously to celebrate your new nephew and niece.

[TxCat]

I'm not mad at myself, though I will certainly think more carefully about lending stuff to Alice again.

I am overall mad at DH's entire family for the way they tend to monopolize our Christmas celebrations without even really caring about it in the first place (ex their flight arrives at 2 pm on Christmas Day requiring my DH to leave our party to go pick them up and be gone for 3 hours during Christmas) but don't worry, they don't really care about Christmas dinner that they'll miss. But please don't serve beef or lamb or duck or pork, because they won't eat it. This all actually has very litttle to do with Alice herself though, more Fil and Mil.

You can't punish Alice because you're annoyed about your ILs at Christmas.

[petesgirl]

I'm in a similar position. I let my SIL take all my baby girl clothes up to size 6 months when I thought we were done. Now I'm kicking myself because if this baby turns out to be a girl I will have to buy a whole new wardrobe! But, I was the one who offered in the first place and SIL has a new baby girl now too so I know there is no getting it back.
Anyway, I would at least ask if she could bring/ship the girl things she took and any other smaller things she is finished with. Forget the swing and rock n play. Rock n plays aren't that expensive to purchase new, or you could do a combined gift with other relatives to get a super nice swing.

[lalasmama]

Hi Alice!
I'm so excited to see you, Bill, and Bill Jr for Christmas!

My sister Jane is pregnant, and due in January. She's in a tight spot financially, and asked about borrowing some of the baby things from when my Sally and Joe were infants. I would love to be able to help her.

I know your Bill Jr is still so young that you probably haven't even thought of clearing the baby stuff out. If you could gather up what Bill Jr has finished using, Hubby and I would love to come get them the weekend after Thanksgiving so that we can help Jane out. Of course, we won't worry about the clothes that your Bill Jr hasn't grown into, or the newborn clothes ruined with all those baby stains! Really, just helping her with the swing, rock-n-play, and ________ would be such a weight off Jane's shoulders!

Thanks so much! Can't wait to see you guys in a few weeks!

--Basil

[LBW]

I don't think it can hurt to ask, especially since you think she hasn't used, or is no longer using, some of the stuff. But, I do think you'll have to plan on driving to pick it up or paying for shipping. Maybe try to make a long weekend out of it?

I do also think you may have to accept that your things won't be in the same condition they were in when you loaned them to her. She may also be using more than you think. The baby is only about 6 months now, right, if he'll be 8 months at Christmas?

I'd probably just try to make the email short and sweet.

Alice - I was just talking to Jane about her baby registry. I'd love to be able to loan her some of the things I loaned to you before Nephew was born. Can we talk about what you aren't using anymore so that I can let her know what to expect? Then we can sort of the logistics of how to get everything to Jane. Thanks!

[BunnyBee]

I'm not mad at myself, though I will certainly think more carefully about lending stuff to Alice again.

I am overall mad at DH's entire family for the way they tend to monopolize our Christmas celebrations without even really caring about it in the first place (ex their flight arrives at 2 pm on Christmas Day requiring my DH to leave our party to go pick them up and be gone for 3 hours during Christmas) but don't worry, they don't really care about Christmas dinner that they'll miss. But please don't serve beef or lamb or duck or pork, because they won't eat it. This all actually has very litttle to do with Alice herself though, more Fil and Mil.

Why does he have to leave? Let FIL and MIL go get them. Or they can take a car service. That's a husband boundary issue, not an IL issue. :)

[kristenk]

I like lalasmama's email. I'd add mention of the girl clothes to the email. Send that email and then see what Alice says. I don't think you can fault Alice for not thinking that you'd want to give the clothes and other items to your sister for her baby, though. Your posts about it come across as angry (maybe that's not what you intend, but what I feel when I'm reading them) and I don't think that's warranted. I could easily see Alice posting in the Bitching Post that her SIL lent her baby items and then wanted them back when the baby was only 8 months old!

You weren't thinking about Jane and the possibility of her pregnancy when you lent Alice the items. You didn't have a set return date established. Alice was overly aggressive in asking for certain items, but you agreed to lend them. Were you happy lending them to Alice at the time? Did something happen with you and DH's side of the family between when you lent them and now? It just seems to be about more than baby clothes/items. Possibly?

There's no reason your DH has to leave your Christmas party if he doesn't want to! Can't they rent a car or take a taxi? Or does DH not mind picking them up at the airport but you'd rather he stay home with you and the kids? (I wouldn't want my DH to have to leave for 3 hours on Christmas Day)

[Corie]

I like lalasmama's email. I would send that to your SIL.

[HannaAddict]

You mentioned you had an understanding it was a loan - but did she? Was it clearly stated? With the long drive to get the stuff it seems less likely to seem like a loan - again unless you said so specifically. It can't hurt to ask if some of the things she's. it using could be used by your other relative but I don't think you can be upset if she's loaned them or something else. And I think it is very odd to suggest someone fly and bring stuff back to you, especially the large items. That is unreasonable in my world and it is all we can manage to bring our things and she might have gifts for family to bring. That is just a non-starter and if someone on this board posted that their SIL gave them baby stuff and it was a six hour drive to get and now wants it back and by the way,, need to transport and fly with it, the board would go bonkers with how whacked that is. It isn't Alice's fault, so I don't understand the last comment about "not giving anything ever again." I think you can ask and be at peace that you helped her out and help out your other SIL if you can but it shouldn't be expected. It would never occur to me to ship or travel with used baby products someone handed down to me to give back across country to be handed down again. I would have declined the offer of the used stuff to begin with it that was the expectation.


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[abh5e8]

Does Alice know Jane? Or have any idea she is pregnant? It doesn't sound like you have much if a friendship/relationship with Alice. I agree with sending an email, explaining the situation and asking for the items back. Your posts really imply Alice should be reading your mind and knowing your sisters reproductive status, which is just silly.

Another option, is just to buy Jane the used items. Even in our small town cl and fb are packed with nice, cheap, used baby gear.

[marymoo86]

Does Alice know Jane? Or have any idea she is pregnant? It doesn't sound like you have much if a friendship/relationship with Alice. I agree with sending an email, explaining the situation and asking for the items back. Your posts really imply Alice should be reading your mind and knowing your sisters reproductive status, which is just silly.

Another option, is just to buy Jane the used items. Even in our small town cl and fb are packed with nice, cheap, used baby gear.

Seriously - the time and gas wasted (or shipping) is so not even worth it. Just buy the big items - regularly see RNPs for $25. I'd probably buy swing new given how some can be duds in case a return is needed. Everything else can be done fairly cheap unless you have sentimental things you want returned. I routinely see A&A swaddles/bibs/dream blankets at TJ Maxx/Marshalls.

[PZMommy]

I think you may be out of luck. When I have lended stuff, I've done it under the impression, I'd never get it back. I take very good care of my things, and I don't trust that other people would return it in the same way that I lent it out. I purposely turned down any items that were offered to me, as I didn't want to be responsible to return them. I would never remember which clothes were loaned, and what was a gift, etc. I guess I would just never think that clothes would be returned. Bigger items maybe. However, having to bring them back from a long distance seems ridiculous. You could buy a new rock n play for what it would cost to ship it. My baby used that for 10 months, so she may not even be done with it. I'd tell Jane you have nothing to loan, and just get her a nice baby gift.

[KpbS]

Hi Alice!
I'm so excited to see you, Bill, and Bill Jr for Christmas!

My sister Jane is pregnant, and due in January. She's in a tight spot financially, and asked about borrowing some of the baby things from when my Sally and Joe were infants. I would love to be able to help her.

I know your Bill Jr is still so young that you probably haven't even thought of clearing the baby stuff out. If you could gather up what Bill Jr has finished using, Hubby and I would love to come get them the weekend after Thanksgiving so that we can help Jane out. Of course, we won't worry about the clothes that your Bill Jr hasn't grown into, or the newborn clothes ruined with all those baby stains! Really, just helping her with the swing, rock-n-play, and ________ would be such a weight off Jane's shoulders!

Thanks so much! Can't wait to see you guys in a few weeks!

--Basil

This is PERFECT.

[niccig]

I like the email suggestion, but I wouldn't expect to get much back. I've learned that some people think a loan is there's to own or they don't treat it as you would, so when you get it back, it's damaged. I stopped loaning out things I would ever want back. DH's 2 sisters got so much from us, I shipped it and they didn't even say thank you. So I stopped doing it. Gave it to Goodwill - easier on me than packing it and schlepping it to post office. Neither of the sisters mentioned it. DH was OK with me stopping, so I just did.

[TwinFoxes]

If your DH doesn't think you made it clear it was a loan, why are you so convinced you did? Why were you "loaning" baby items you had no future use for? You didn't have another kid, and as you said your brother's wife had no immediate plans to have kids. Why would Alice think you wanted them back? What if your Jane never had a baby, or just didn't want your stuff? Would you have welcomed the stuff back with open arms? It was a "loan" after all. (I would have been so bummed if our old baby stuff showed up on our front porch again!) I think you're being unreasonable. Everyone who gave me baby stuff was so excited to get rid of it, I don't think it's typical to return things like blankets. If there's something special you wanted back, you should have made it very clear. Things like onesies and blankets are not just not traditionally returned. I would have no idea who gave me what even if they did want it returned.

Even if you are one hundred percent in the right, are you really willing to damage your relationship with your ILs and your DH? It just doesn't seem worth it to me.

[westwoodmom04]

If your DH doesn't think you made it clear it was a loan, why are you so convinced you did? Why were you "loaning" baby items you had no future use for? You didn't have another kid, and as you said your brother's wife had no immediate plans to have kids. Why would Alice think you wanted them back? What if your Jane never had a baby, or just didn't want your stuff? Would you have welcomed the stuff back with open arms? It was a "loan" after all. (I would have been so bummed if our old baby stuff showed up on our front porch again!) I think you're being unreasonable. Everyone who gave me baby stuff was so excited to get rid of it, I don't think it's typical to return things like blankets. If there's something special you wanted back, you should have made it very clear. Things like onesies and blankets are not just not traditionally returned. I would have no idea who gave me what even if they did want it returned.

Even if you are one hundred percent in the right, are you really willing to damage your relationship with your ILs and your DH? It just doesn't seem worth it to me.


I agree with this. It sorta seems like you just want it back because you want the sister in law you like better to have it. I would resist that impulse and just buy some nice presents for your brother's wife.

[specialp]

I would never remember which clothes were loaned, and what was a gift, etc. I guess I would just never think that clothes would be returned. Bigger items maybe. However, having to bring them back from a long distance seems ridiculous. You could buy a new rock n play for what it would cost to ship it. My baby used that for 10 months, so she may not even be done with it. I'd tell Jane you have nothing to loan, and just get her a nice baby gift.

Agreed.
Even assuming you were very clear, if it took someone 6 hour drive and a rented a vehicle to get the items, I wouldn't expect anything back until they were done with everything. It wouldn't be worth borrowing if you were expected to ship things back the minute you were done with them.

I think it is fine to send the email above, but I do think you are forgetting the whirlwind that is the first year when babies grow in and out of clothes and toys in the blink of an eye. And half of the time you think baby is done with something only to have to drag it back out. I personally threw everything in an empty walk-in closet and didn't deal with separating it until after the first year. [ETA: And we used A&A blankets for a year, swaddling with hands free b/c that was the only way they would sleep. ] As far as clothes, I've truly never heard of borrowing baby clothes. Pass down and giving away, all the time, but not borrowing. I mean even if someone is as careful as you, it's a baby. spit up, throw up, blow out. It's a crapshoot on what survives two babies.

Also, your op said the understanding is it was a loan and would be returned if YOU had another baby. Even if she knows your SIL is pregnant, it might not register with her that it triggers the return obligation since it isn't you.

[bisous]

I'd send the email lalasmom suggested. I think it is nice. I think it is fair to assume that she might still be using many of the things you lent to her. To me 8 months old is not very old!

I want to say that I'm DEFINITELY one who borrowed baby equipment and clothing. Maybe it is a money thing? Those things cost a lot and we have always been on a budget. I am good about returning items when I use them. The people I have loaned my stuff to are most often good about respecting my things but I confess I lost a whole lot of infant clothing when I let my friend who speaks English as a second language borrow it. She really didn't understand it was a loan. I had made sure not to lend the stuff that was irreplaceable or sentimental to me so although it hurt a little I felt good about it. I loaned it with good intentions to someone who used the items. I had no idea at the time that I'd have a 3rd son so keeping it in my (nonexistent) storage just didn't make sense.

I would say try the email. If it doesn't work, try to let it go. Feel good about the fact that your nephew is using the items and that you did a good deed!

[specialp]

Maybe it is a money thing?

No, not a money thing. More of a memory thing. Dozens or hundreds of tiny clothes with multiple pieces that are worn for 3 months that belong to different people would be hard to keep up with what was mine and what belonged to a, b, c. Plus, I would be nervous wreck about trying to get stains out and return in the same condition. Very different than baby equipment.

[khm]

There's also the condition of the items to worry about. I got a ton of handmedowns from my sister and SIL, and when I cracked the tubs of clothing open, they were very stained! I researched it and it is A Thing. Spit up stains (especially breastmilk stains) apparently lie in wait! It was a big job to OxyClean and lay all this stuff out in the sun to get it looking good again.

It wasn't lack of care, it is just what happens with time in storage. Same thing happened to some items I stored away, I took extra care to have things spotless when I stored them, only to find them stained later.

So, even the girl stuff that she didn't touch could be suffering from this right now....

I guess it boils down to, it's used baby gear. I know we tend to think our own gear is special because we researched it, bought it, loved it and cared for it. But, at the end of the day, it is X year old used baby gear. Craigslist and Facebook sale groups are full of the same. Just stuff someone else researched, loved and cared for.

[c&j04]

I loaned out good quality baby stuff because we thought one was the extent of our family. Having a baby didn't trigger the return of everything automatically.
Also, I have a 7 month old so aboUT the same as your SIL. I hate clutter and live in a small house but my swing has been sitting in a corner unused for at least a month. It's just not convenient to clean it, load up, label and get to the consignment store yet. And the store is 15 miles away. Same with rock n play.

Eta. I do get where you're coming from with some of the feelings tho. The initial offer sounds like it was kinda taken advantage of. I detest people expecting me to give/share things above and beyond what i actually offered..

[carolinacool]

Maybe I missed it, but have either Jane or your brother even asked about borrowing things? It not, this seems to be a lot of handwringing over nothing. I understand they may not be able to afford things as nice as you had, but maybe they don't care? I couldn't afford a lot of high-dollar baby items, either, but DS also wasn't sleeping in a cardboard box. I was happy with what I had or what people gave me.

Buy them a wonderful item off of their registry. If they are really struggling financially, but them several new things, if you can afford it. Yes, Alice seems to have taken advantage of your generosity. But I really agree with what KHM said--at the end of the day, it's used baby gear.

[mikala]

There's also the condition of the items to worry about. I got a ton of handmedowns from my sister and SIL, and when I cracked the tubs of clothing open, they were very stained! I researched it and it is A Thing. Spit up stains (especially breastmilk stains) apparently lie in wait! It was a big job to OxyClean and lay all this stuff out in the sun to get it looking good again.

It wasn't lack of care, it is just what happens with time in storage. Same thing happened to some items I stored away, I took extra care to have things spotless when I stored them, only to find them stained later.

So, even the girl stuff that she didn't touch could be suffering from this right now....

I guess it boils down to, it's used baby gear. I know we tend to think our own gear is special because we researched it, bought it, loved it and cared for it. But, at the end of the day, it is X year old used baby gear. Craigslist and Facebook sale groups are full of the same. Just stuff someone else researched, loved and cared for.
I agree with this.

Personally I could see asking for the things back if you were to have another baby yourself and made it clear it was a loan but I would not expect someone to fly or ship used gear to give to another person. An 8 month old is still at the travel with everything plus the kitchen sink stage and I wouldn't want to pay for and wrangle another bag.

I can totally see a BP here from someone who rented a van and drove twelve hours while pregnant to pick up used baby gear thinking it was a gift and now a few months later the original owner wants her to pay to ship it back to give it to someone the original owner likes better.

I'd give up on the expectation that you will receive anything back and be pleasantly surprised if she offers. In the meantime I'd feel out Jane to see if she is interested in used gear and if so watch for excellent condition stuff at local kids resale events or buy/sell fb pages for her. In our area you can usually find barely used gear for 1/4 to 1/2 of retail.

[vonfirmath]

I think you may be out of luck. When I have lended stuff, I've done it under the impression, I'd never get it back. I take very good care of my things, and I don't trust that other people would return it in the same way that I lent it out. I purposely turned down any items that were offered to me, as I didn't want to be responsible to return them. I would never remember which clothes were loaned, and what was a gift, etc. I guess I would just never think that clothes would be returned. Bigger items maybe. However, having to bring them back from a long distance seems ridiculous. You could buy a new rock n play for what it would cost to ship it. My baby used that for 10 months, so she may not even be done with it. I'd tell Jane you have nothing to loan, and just get her a nice baby gift.

Agreed. I would have turned down a loan as well in these circumstances. (Esp of clothes) It is too hard to keep stuff separate. Best would be not to further strain the family relationships trying to ask for stuff back when their baby is still so young.

[mmsmom]

Maybe I missed it, but have either Jane or your brother even asked about borrowing things? It not, this seems to be a lot of handwringing over nothing. I understand they may not be able to afford things as nice as you had, but maybe they don't care? I couldn't afford a lot of high-dollar baby items, either, but DS also wasn't sleeping in a cardboard box. I was happy with what I had or what people gave me.

Buy them a wonderful item off of their registry. If they are really struggling financially, but them several new things, if you can afford it. Yes, Alice seems to have taken advantage of your generosity. But I really agree with what KHM said--at the end of the day, it's used baby gear.

I was thinking this too... do you know if Jane even wants the items? She may not want things for her first baby that have already been through 2 babies.

[bisous]

Agreed. I would have turned down a loan as well in these circumstances. (Esp of clothes) It is too hard to keep stuff separate. Best would be not to further strain the family relationships trying to ask for stuff back when their baby is still so young.

I've always labeled my stuff with a sharpie. I had codes for all the people who were kind enough to loan me stuff. They were gracious and told me not to worry about the odd item here and there that was destroyed but I tried really hard to keep their clothes nice.

[HannaAddict]

I've always labeled my stuff with a sharpie. I had codes for all the people who were kind enough to loan me stuff. They were gracious and told me not to worry about the odd item here and there that was destroyed but I tried really hard to keep their clothes nice.

I've never really heard of anyone wanting anything back. Not how it works around here, hand me downs are on to their new home!


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[TwinFoxes]

I've always labeled my stuff with a sharpie. I had codes for all the people who were kind enough to loan me stuff.

That's very conscientious of you, but that is just not the norm.

[Snow mom]

I've always labeled my stuff with a sharpie. I had codes for all the people who were kind enough to loan me stuff. They were gracious and told me not to worry about the odd item here and there that was destroyed but I tried really hard to keep their clothes nice.

Not baby clothes, but I did borrow and return toddler clothes. That was really clear because I borrowed them between use of two existing children in the household they came from. I also asked about all HMDs whether they needed returned and would have been happy to return anything that the original owner indicated. This is all pretty local though and I'd be less inclined to take a loan that involved a long car ride or shipping. I think those that suggested watching for good condition, reasonably priced used items would be best. The expense of getting the items back plus the potential strained relationship if your SIL is offended by you wanting things back now or you don't get back what you expect (stained, broken, lost, etc.) just isn't worth it for used baby items. I get that they are your used baby items, but unless it's irreplaceable try to let it go. A gently used rock n play will be just as good as your gently used rock n play.

[twotimesblue]

I agree with all the PPs who state that hand-me-downs, unless explicitly stated by the donor, are considered for keeps, or at least until the recipient is done having kids. I lent a TON of stuff to friends after having DS2 as I wasn't sure if we'd have another kiddo and we needed to clear stuff out of the house. When I got pregnant with DC3 it never crossed my mind to ask for the stuff back as I just assumed they were either still using it or had given it to other friends/Goodwill.

Also, consider that as it's your SIL's first baby, she may well want new stuff. With DC3 I am totally happy to buy almost everything used - near-new swings go for $25-30 on my local Craigslist, and as she can't wear many of her brothers' hand-me-downs, many of baby's clothes come from eBay or FB resale groups - but with DS1 I really wanted the box-fresh stuff (and luckily people are more generous with your first child so we were gifted the stroller, changing table etc). The stuff that you want Alice to return would be on its 3rd use by the time Jane got her hands on it, and may not be in great shape. Those 'secret milk' stains are a total PITA to get out - a friend gave me a box of her DD's old clothes when DC3 was born and I was too embarrassed to tell her that most of them were so badly stained as to be totally unwearable (I'm sure they weren't stained before she put them in storage 5 years ago). I would buy Jane a couple of lovely items from her registry and be glad to have all that baby clutter out of your home!