Pretty certain I did not handle this right. What should I have done?

[bisous]

I ended up taking my friends DS, we'll call him "L" to the zoo with my kids yesterday. I had a friend along with me and together we kept the kids safe and had a good time.

What happened that was unexpected was that L brought nearly $100 in cash to the zoo. It was surprising to me. He said his mom gave it to him for doing chores. It kind of threw off our rhythm because I don't usually buy ANYTHING for my kids.

At one point we ate our (prepacked) lunches and I saw him looking longingly at the restaurant at the zoo. (Which has extremely substandard hamburgers for an exorbitant price!) I was watching him gradually sneak away from us and then he was inside the building! I decided to send my 13yo with him and told him to just stay with him in line. I didn't want him to get lost or to get taken advantage of with his money. He ended up buying my DS an Icee and some food for himself. While I don't like that he sneaked away from me, I didn't have a lot of options for making a consequence out of it. I just resolved to stay away from restaurants!

Then at the end of the day, he wanted to buy a souvenir. I told him he didn't need to spend his money, that saving his money might be a better idea but he was GOING to spend his money. So I again sent in DS1 with him and watched him from the outside of the store, where my 3 other kids were eating some snacks. He came out with two large stuffed animals and then gave one to DS1. I told him didn't have to do that but he said he wanted to. It was a little awkward.

Then he saw the OTHER gift shop and went in there, again with DS1. He ended up buying something for his mom and a necklace for me, which was very kind. It wasn't expensive. I wanted to accept it but he ended up spending all but about $10 of his money. So he dropped a TON of cash at the place.

Then on the way home, DS1, DS2 and L were in the back seat of my van and talking quietly. It comes out that L asked DS1 to pay him for the stuffed animal that he gave him. DS1 was concerned because he doesn't have the money for it but DS2 does so they apparently were working out how they'd pay L back. I came in and talked to him about how if you give a gift to someone, you shouldn't be expected to pay for it. I didn't want DS1 to think he was stuck. DS1 doesn't have the greatest people skills either and I was trying to teach him. In the meantime, L didn't look happy at all. L then suggested that he look through DS1's money drawer, which I didn't feel good about. DS1 started putting it away. I was in the hallway, helping DS3 with something and I then I saw L take a bill out of DS1's money box. I made him put it back and kept the boys out of the room.

At this point it was nearly time for L to leave. I talked with DS1 and we both agreed that he should give the stuffed animal back to L. I gave the necklace back too and said it would be beautiful on my friend and asked him if it would be okay. I still don't know if that was right but I felt like in the circumstances it was the best thing to do.

I walked him back to my friend and explained that L had spent a lot of money and got a lot of things from the store. I guess that was my way of letting her know that I noticed???

I explained the whole thing to DH and his immediate comment was that I shouldn't have let him spend that money. My friend is on a fixed income that is very tight. He was concerned maybe L took the money from his mom. I confess the thought didn't even occur to me until that moment.

I think my policy yesterday was all over the place and not well thought out.

What should I have done? What would you have done?

FWIW, we will have him again on next Monday. Keeping him away from home is much easier. I think DH is considering taking him to DL with only DS1 and DH's brother and son. Not having the littlest kids around means we can devote more time to keeping him safe and happy.

Thanks for reading this far. I welcome any thoughts!

[twowhat?]

I probably would have been taken off guard as well and not made the best choices, so I won't talk about what you "should" have done because there is no going back and no one would think straight after seeing a kid come to the zoo with $100 and claiming it was his to spend!!

I would just move forward and talk to your friend. Tell her you were taken off guard, that L told you this was his money to spend, and apologize if that wasn't her intent. Ask her what she wants you to do next time if you find yourself in a similar situation - would she prefer you send her a text to be sure all of that money can be spent as L wishes, or if she would prefer for you to make an executive decision on a rule for the outing (e.g. everyone can spend $10)? If she's upset about the money spent, maybe offer to facilitate returning the items during the next zoo trip.

How close are you to this friend? If close enough, I would probably go ahead and tell her the whole story, that L bought things for others, and then asked for reimbursement and when you tried to explain the point of gifting, he then tried to take money from DS without DS knowing. If I were L's mom, I would DEFINITELY want to know about that!!!

Good luck, sounds hard!!!

[lalasmama]

I would have just said "not spending money today" and repeated ad nauseum. DD and her BFF often have similar issues--we are much more comfortable financially, so DD often has cash to spend. But she knows if she spends her cash when he friend is there, she needs to spend the same on her BFF. They do a lot of window shopping and wandering ;) They are both 13.

I think by sending your DS with him, it was giving assumed permission. But I remember past posts that this kid is a handful, so not losing your $#*+ in and of itself is a win in my book!

[PZMommy]

I would have held onto his money for him and maybe given him $20 to spend.

[minnie-zb]

I don't think you did anything wrong. It wasn't something you had considered and you managed it on the fly.

Since you have another event coming up, I would clarify with his mom for the next time and make sure you are both on the same page.

But don't beat yourself up.

[Kindra178]

I would have held onto his money for him and maybe given him $20 to spend.

With a 13 year old? That's hard. Bisous, you did the best you could.

[bnme]

If it happens again I would not let him spend that much with out first talking to his mom. If she were not reachable (at work or whatever), I would let him spend $20. I would've said something like I wasn't comfortable with him spending that much with out checking with mom first. I also would not have let him buy something for my kid, unless it was only a couple of dollars. I would have been worried that my kid asked or influenced him to buy it.

[SnuggleBuggles]

He and/ or the mom put you in a bad spot. You need to talk to her.


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[belovedgandp]

I got caught in a similar situation 1 1/2 years ago. We invited friends to an amusement park as our guests - 3 of them same age as DS1, all 11 or 12 at the time. Making it clear they did not need to bring anything. We'd cover snacks and food. We weren't 20 feet in the front gate and one of the boys had already spent $10 on a game winning a stuffed animal. I didn't even realize he had cash with him. I don't let my kids play the games.

Did teach me to always check and make our rules clear. I did not make the same mistake when I took two other friends this past fall.

It's an awkward feeling. This kid definitely had the money and his parents knew it. I was more uncomfortable for the other friends who did not have money. And even my DS1 who has known not to ask to play for years is suddenly asking on this trip.

[squimp]

I agree that you did the best you could. This is a tough one with teenagers, and respectfully, it is kind of hard to know how you will handle this stuff until you have a kid that age. Something similar happened to us recently. I took a friend of my 13-yo DD's shopping and thought she had talked with her mom about how much she could spend, so I lent her some money. Afterward, I realized I should have texted her mom to make sure she was on the same page. She was and thanked me, so it worked out OK but I learned my lesson on that issue.

[khm]

With a 13 year old? That's hard. Bisous, you did the best you could.

If I'm remembering right, this particular 13 year old has some special needs that make it tricky. (It was mentioned in a different post.)

I think you did the best you could, too, Bisous.

It's over and done, ask the mom what she thinks should have happened and go from there.

[georgiegirl]

I wouldn't beat yourself up. You did the mom a favor by watching her kid, he snuck away to spend money, and you also had a bunch of other kids with you.


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[TwinFoxes]

I would not have cared about him spending money on food. It's his money, and yeah maybe the burgers are expensive, but I remember when I was that age I loved going to snack bars. That part wouldn't have bothered me. He's 13, not 3.

I would not have allowed my kids to accept expensive gifts, nor would I have accepted gifts from him. I would have flat out told him no to that.

If I were worried about the money situation, I would have texted his mom, or even just said "let me text your mom to make sure it's okay". Perhaps he would have suddenly remembered he wasn't supposed to spend it. ;)

I would not have made DS give him money for the stuffed animal, I think you did the right thing in giving the gifts back.

[bisous]

I would not have cared about him spending money on food. It's his money, and yeah maybe the burgers are expensive, but I remember when I was that age I loved going to snack bars. That part wouldn't have bothered me. He's 13, not 3.

I would not have allowed my kids to accept expensive gifts, nor would I have accepted gifts from him. I would have flat out told him no to that.

If I were worried about the money situation, I would have texted his mom, or even just said "let me text your mom to make sure it's okay". Perhaps he would have suddenly remembered he wasn't supposed to spend it. ;)

I would not have made DS give him money for the stuffed animal, I think you did the right thing in giving the gifts back.

I don't think I cared if he spent his money on food so much as nobody else was buying food so it was awkward. We all had to wait for him and nobody else got anything. But oh well, it wasn't that big of a deal.

Absolutely to your second point. It didn't feel right to me even at the start I just didn't know what to do!

I wish the mom could text! She can't read and therefore, can't text. I thought about calling her but I'm pretty sure she can't accept phone calls during her shift. Maybe trying to call her would have been a good idea, just to "help remind him" but darn it, didn't even think of it.

But yeah. I appreciate the perspective of everyone. I was not totally on top of things yesterday. The dynamic was tough to begin with and didn't foresee the money issue.

We are planning on taking him some place fun next Monday but we've already decided to talk to his mom about not sending money with him. Even if she wants him to spend it, it gets a little tricky since nobody else will be bringing money.

[bisous]

If I'm remembering right, this particular 13 year old has some special needs that make it tricky. (It was mentioned in a different post.)

I think you did the best you could, too, Bisous.

It's over and done, ask the mom what she thinks should have happened and go from there.


Yes, he has bipolar (which I don't really see but I'm not sure what I would see??) and ADHD and that I definitely saw. I could tell exactly when his dose was wearing off (he had a second dose that I had to give him). I'm fairly familiar with ADHD as DS1 has it but it was kind of tricky. He's very impulsive, like my own DS.

[BunnyBee]

I would've texted his mom and not let him spend it without her okay.

[squimp]

We are planning on taking him some place fun next Monday but we've already decided to talk to his mom about not sending money with him. Even if she wants him to spend it, it gets a little tricky since nobody else will be bringing money.

This sounds like a really good plan to get on the same page. Remove it as an option. I almost never let kids spend their own money when I'm with them. But there's lots of grey as they get older and have more independence but in some respects less sense.

I still really think you should not beat yourself up about this. You are a good friend.

[hillview]

This sounds like a really good plan to get on the same page. Remove it as an option. I almost never let kids spend their own money when I'm with them. But there's lots of grey as they get older and have more independence but in some respects less sense.

I still really think you should not beat yourself up about this. You are a good friend.
THIS TOTALLY!
I think you did the best you could. Only improvement could have been texting the friend but the kid is 13. I think going forward telling the mom you don't plan on doing shopping or eating out and then telling the kid that again and letting him know he cannot wander away else he cannot come on trips.

[gatorsmom]

I would've texted his mom and not let him spend it without her okay.

THats what I would have done too. I understand some kids will bring money to spend because it's a special outing but $100 is a lot of money to waste at the zoo. But honestly, those situations are tricky and I think you handled it the best you could. I wouldn't worry about it.

[carolinamama]

With a 13 year old? That's hard. Bisous, you did the best you could.

:yeahthat:

I would discuss what your friend would she like you to do next time since there is a next time. But do NOT beat yourself up over this. It would have completely thrown me too.

[NCGrandma]

I wish the mom could text! She can't read and therefore, can't text. I thought about calling her but I'm pretty sure she can't accept phone calls during her shift.

OP, I think this point got lost in the shuffle, but it's important -- you basically have no way to contact the mom while you're responsible for her kid. (I hope her job would make an exception and let her take a call in case of emergency but otherwise, you're on your own.) Tough situation.


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[AnnieW625]

I think you should tell the mom if L doesn't tell him first.

I almost suggested taking L to DL in your previous post as well, but think that it will be easier with everything that happened yesterday for just your DH to take him.


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[smilequeen]

The kid is 13. I think you did the best you could. Chat with his mom for future reference, but if I send my 12 year old out and he takes some money I have to trust him to spend it wisely or if he spends it unwisely...to learn a lesson from it. I don't helicopter it and I definitely wouldn't expect another mom to do so. I leave him freedom to make those mistakes. So now, he doesn't have that $100 for things he might really want or even need and he'll have to deal with it. It's a part of growing up. And a better lesson to learn when it's real money and not credit!

The only thing I would have done differently is not accept any gifts at any point. (although I would have let the kid buy my kid a snack without much thought)

[bisous]

Yeah, all good points. I'm sure I could have called the mom in a true emergency but I'm not sure that qualifies in this circumstance. Honestly it didn't occur to me to ask her until way later anyway!

On accepting the gifts, my first thought was probably poorly thought out but here's the reasoning. Although we are not wealthy, we have significantly more than the family of this child. I felt like it would be kind of condescending not to accept his gifts. Does that make sense? Obviously after seeing how things worked out I don't think that was the right tactic to take. I just didn't want to not accept his generosity. Money seems like it is pretty important to him and he was proud of all the money he brought and spent.

[TwinFoxes]

I don't think I cared if he spent his money on food so much as nobody else was buying food so it was awkward. We all had to wait for him and nobody else got anything.

Sorry, I misunderstood since you said the burgers were expensive and didn't mention the wait.

[robinsmommy]

Yes, he has bipolar (which I don't really see but I'm not sure what I would see??) and ADHD and that I definitely saw. I could tell exactly when his dose was wearing off (he had a second dose that I had to give him). I'm fairly familiar with ADHD as DS1 has it but it was kind of tricky. He's very impulsive, like my own DS.
Isn't impulsive behavior, especially around money/shopping one of the classic bipolar symptoms?

https://psychcentral.com/lib/spending-sprees-in-bipolar-disorder/

[TwinFoxes]

On accepting the gifts, my first thought was probably poorly thought out but here's the reasoning. Although we are not wealthy, we have significantly more than the family of this child. I felt like it would be kind of condescending not to accept his gifts. Does that make sense? Obviously after seeing how things worked out I don't think that was the right tactic to take. I just didn't want to not accept his generosity. Money seems like it is pretty important to him and he was proud of all the money he brought and spent.

Clearly your heart was in the right place, and frankly taking him while your friend worked was incredibly generous. I think going forward, keeping in mind that he's a child with impulse control issues more than worrying about condescending to him is a good idea. If he were an adult, I totally see your point about not wanting to insult him. But for a kid with impulse issues (keeping mind ALL kids have impulse issues to a point :) ) telling him no is totally acceptable.

Do you think he stole the money from his mom? I never would have thought that, but I guess it's a possibility. I hope not. :(

I'm really curious what his mom says about the money.

[ChicagoNDMom]

You are a kind person OP.

I am of the same opinion as lalasmom, I would have said "we have brought lunch and that is what we are going to eat" and "you are going to have to wait to spend your money until you are with your mom". You are the adult, your rules. Him having access to a large amount of $ was totally inappropriate.

[bisous]

Isn't impulsive behavior, especially around money/shopping one of the classic bipolar symptoms?

https://psychcentral.com/lib/spending-sprees-in-bipolar-disorder/

Oh I don't know. Maybe so! I know very little about bipolar.

[bisous]

Clearly your heart was in the right place, and frankly taking him while your friend worked was incredibly generous. I think going forward, keeping in mind that he's a child with impulse control issues more than worrying about condescending to him is a good idea. If he were an adult, I totally see your point about not wanting to insult him. But for a kid with impulse issues (keeping mind ALL kids have impulse issues to a point :) ) telling him no is totally acceptable.

Do you think he stole the money from his mom? I never would have thought that, but I guess it's a possibility. I hope not. :(

I'm really curious what his mom says about the money.

That's what DH was wondering. It totally never even crossed my mind the whole day. The fact that he was trying to take bills out of DS1's (really sad and paltry) money box makes me wonder if that's possible? That's part of why I'm feeling really bad. I talked to the mom really briefly when I brought him up to the door. She didn't seem upset about all the stuff he bought but I didn't really press it and I'm not sure she'd tell me. The mom has some communication issues too so I'm just not really sure.

What you said about my thinking is completely accurate. I have to remember (as I do with my own 13yo) that having ADHD means that he is emotionally even younger and his thinking is much more straight forward. I'm glad he got his stuff back. It was just really difficult to know what to do. But then I'm not the quickest thinker in these kinds of circumstances. I know I'll be prepared on the money issue going forward but can imagine being blindsided by something else that comes up. Oh well, just gotta do the best I can and keep trying! DH, thankfully is pretty levelheaded and super practical. He's taking L this next time around (with his brother and my nephew and DS1).

[lalasmama]

That's what DH was wondering. It totally never even crossed my mind the whole day. The fact that he was trying to take bills out of DS1's (really sad and paltry) money box makes me wonder if that's possible? That's part of why I'm feeling really bad. I talked to the mom really briefly when I brought him up to the door. She didn't seem upset about all the stuff he bought but I didn't really press it and I'm not sure she'd tell me. The mom has some communication issues too so I'm just not really sure.

What you said about my thinking is completely accurate. I have to remember (as I do with my own 13yo) that having ADHD means that he is emotionally even younger and his thinking is much more straight forward. I'm glad he got his stuff back. It was just really difficult to know what to do. But then I'm not the quickest thinker in these kinds of circumstances. I know I'll be prepared on the money issue going forward but can imagine being blindsided by something else that comes up. Oh well, just gotta do the best I can and keep trying! DH, thankfully is pretty levelheaded and super practical. He's taking L this next time around (with his brother and my nephew and DS1).

I think it's so hard to say "no" to a kid trying to give you a gift. As you said, you didn't want to insult him. And even with his ADHD and bipolar statuses, he likely realizes that you guys are on the giving end more than he and his mom are, and maybe he wanted to "give" back... but then had a bit of buyer's remorse when he saw a nearly empty wallet. A classic bipolar issue is the impulse control, and resulting remorse without a change in the outcome the next time--buying things to get the "high" happy "manic" feelings, then getting the low "depression" when the results are apparent (an empty wallet without much to show for it). So, then he tries to get the "high" of a full wallet by (potentially) telling your DS that he needs to be paid back for the gifts that were bestowed. And then you see the continued impulse control at him getting into your DS's money.

Navigating the early teens (especially with socially immature kids, of which my DD certainly is!) seems like it's going to be more work than those lovely tantrumming toddler years!

[westwoodmom04]

I think you are being such a big help to the mom that you should not feel guilty. Maybe ask her not to have him bring money going forward, but you were blindsided with it this time.

[egoldber]

Yes, impulsive spending is classic during the bipolar manic phase. He may have taken the money, but maybe not. And there was no way for you to know, and you had no way of contacting the mom.

OP, I wouldn't worry too much about it. You did the mom a huge favor and were very kind.

[StantonHyde]

I think you are a saint to take this child and his mother is appreciative.

Next time--no spending money. Your outing, your rules.

Live and learn. You did an AWESOME job. For heck's sake--no bodily harm came to him or others. I think that is a WIN!!

[JustMe]

I agree with those who say you are very kind and did a great job. You did a great job given that you were put into a difficult situation that the other mom did not prepare you for. Maybe she did the best she could, but nevertheless she did not prepare you!

I agree with asking his mom to send him without money next week....and let her know that you may not be able to intervene if he shows up with money anyway and wants to spend it. There is only so much responsibility you should take, IMHO!

[bisous]

I think it's so hard to say "no" to a kid trying to give you a gift. As you said, you didn't want to insult him. And even with his ADHD and bipolar statuses, he likely realizes that you guys are on the giving end more than he and his mom are, and maybe he wanted to "give" back... but then had a bit of buyer's remorse when he saw a nearly empty wallet. A classic bipolar issue is the impulse control, and resulting remorse without a change in the outcome the next time--buying things to get the "high" happy "manic" feelings, then getting the low "depression" when the results are apparent (an empty wallet without much to show for it). So, then he tries to get the "high" of a full wallet by (potentially) telling your DS that he needs to be paid back for the gifts that were bestowed. And then you see the continued impulse control at him getting into your DS's money.

Navigating the early teens (especially with socially immature kids, of which my DD certainly is!) seems like it's going to be more work than those lovely tantrumming toddler years!

I think your interpretation is perfectly in line of what happened and what I know of this child and now what I've learned about bipolar.

Thanks all for our support. It was a tricky situation and I needed another sounding board. I'm not sure I'm up to the task of helping this child but he needs help regardless! As long as I can do something I'm going to keep trying. You guys are helping. I can't even imagine being his mom. If she was just a single mom and had a son with bipolar and ADHD she'd have my sympathy, but she has significant learning disabilities of her own that I'm not even totally aware of, but it affects her ability to read, drive and communicate to some extent. She's doing an amazing job by any standard. Her son is always clean, fed, and respectful and she works so hard to make things work. I admire her a lot but she needs help. Things are getting more complicated as L is getting older.

[JustMe]

. I can't even imagine being his mom. If she was just a single mom and had a son with bipolar and ADHD she'd have my sympathy, but she has significant learning disabilities of her own that I'm not even totally aware of, but it affects her ability to read, drive and communicate to some extent. She's doing an amazing job by any standard. Her son is always clean, fed, and respectful and she works so hard to make things work. I admire her a lot but she needs help. Things are getting more complicated as L is getting older.

Do you think there are any useful local services they may qualify for? Either one of them might qualify for services through something like your county 's developmental disabilities office or places like that?

[bisous]

Do you think there are any useful local services they may qualify for? Either one of them might qualify for services through something like your county 's developmental disabilities office or places like that?

I know they have a special case worker. Her job is through a special program. They have some forms of assistance (I don't know the details). He attends a special school, that's why he moved here. It is supposed to be great. Maybe there is more? I hope so. My friend hasn't let me into all of her life yet. I just help out where I can!

[JustMe]

I know they have a special case worker. Her job is through a special program. They have some forms of assistance (I don't know the details). He attends a special school, that's why he moved here. It is supposed to be great. Maybe there is more? I hope so. My friend hasn't let me into all of her life yet. I just help out where I can!

Oh that is good. They are connected to some services.