REALLY unsavory relatives

[bisous]

DH and I both have relatives currently in jail serving sentences for child porn. It was shocking both times. Neither cousin seemed like someone who would have that kind of problem. I just found out that I have another cousin who is a member (maybe leader) of a fascist organization. The association itself is striving to separate itself from Nazism but I'm not really sure that the line is very hard. :(

For the two prison inmates, both my family and my DH's family have tried to be supportive and kind (though protective of our children) despite the conviction. It hasn't been too difficult because both are currently in prison so there hasn't been a lot of family interaction. I don't know that I'd be truly comfortable around someone with that kind of conviction, KWIM?

My stepmom does not want to associate with my fascist cousin any more. I can absolutely see where he is coming from! At the same time, is it really any worse to have scary beliefs than to be convicted of a very reprehensible crime? To my knowledge, my cousin hasn't committed any violent acts at all.

How would you deal with a relative like this? Part of me just wants to love them and show them the right way, so to speak. But I don't fault my stepmom for feeling the way she does either.

WWYD?

[SnuggleBuggles]

Why does it matter what your stepmom does unless you were planning an event with a guest list that might include them? They wouldn't make my guest list cut so it's a non issue. Whether you have a relationship with any of these people can be a decision made independently of others.
I assume your religion might be able to provide your family with specific guidance, right? I'd probably seek that out.


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[bisous]

Why does it matter what your stepmom does unless you were planning an event with a guest list that might include them? They wouldn't make my guest list cut so it's a non issue. Whether you have a relationship with any of these people can be a decision made independently of others.
I assume your religion might be able to provide your family with specific guidance, right? I'd probably seek that out.


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Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. All my relatives on that side live in the same town except for me. I don't coordinate any get togethers because I live 3 hours away from them all. It is all funneled through my Dad and Stepmom. I'm mostly just curious about what others think and why. I go years without seeing this family anyway, because of distance and some other factors. It was just interesting to think about reasons why we don't associate with family members. I guess I was curious on what you or others think about criminal behavior. Or just reprehensible views.

I wasn't sure what you meant from your remark about religion. Do you mean something like family counseling?

[SnuggleBuggles]

Oh, I'm sorry. I wasn't clear. All my relatives on that side live in the same town except for me. I don't coordinate any get togethers because I live 3 hours away from them all. It is all funneled through my Dad and Stepmom. I'm mostly just curious about what others think and why. I go years without seeing this family anyway, because of distance and some other factors. It was just interesting to think about reasons why we don't associate with family members. I guess I was curious on what you or others think about criminal behavior. Or just reprehensible views.

I wasn't sure what you meant from your remark about religion. Do you mean something like family counseling?

I just meant I would guess your church might help you figure out a good answer for yourself through the lens of your church's broader beliefs. Not counseling for the whole family, just for you to get clarity from someone you know and trust.

I wouldn't really seek out relationships with any of them but I'd put child pornography higher on the do not associate list.


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[hwin708]

I would have problems with ALL of the described relatives. And would not exactly be of the "love them and show them the right way" side of things, unless you are indeed actively insisting upon treatment and reform for them. Which is clearly not happening with the fascist cousin. So you aren't really showing him the right way. You are just being nice and acting like it isn't happening. Good manners is something predators and monsters rely upon to keep on going.

I also definitely understand where your stepmom is coming from. You are viewing morality as tied to law-breaking. I can assure, as much of as risk as your child-porn cousins are to children, the parents of children of color would view your fascist cousin to be just as dangerous. If not even more so. They can do something, albeit not everything, to keep their kids from being alone with unknown adults. But there is nothing they can truly do to protect their kids from a pervasive mindset that incites hatred, violence, and injustice towards them.

You see the two cousins as having actually committed a crime, while the other simply has offensive beliefs. But that is NOT all he is doing. He is leading an organization actively spreading those beliefs and hatred, in hopes that one day he CAN act on his evil. It is scary on a different level, and there is NO CHANCE I would let my children in a room with him, not even surrounded by a dozen other trusted adults. I could expect those adults to prevent my child from being sexually assaulted in that moment. I could not expect them to prevent my child from being exposed to hate speech in that moment.

[bisous]

I would have problems with ALL of the described relatives. And would not exactly be of the "love them and show them the right way" side of things, unless you are indeed actively insisting upon treatment and reform for them. Which is clearly not happening with the fascist cousin. So you aren't really showing him the right way. You are just being nice and acting like it isn't happening. Good manners is something predators and monsters rely upon to keep on going.

I also definitely understand where your stepmom is coming from. You are viewing morality as tied to law-breaking. I can assure, as much of as risk as your child-porn cousins are to children, the parents of children of color would view your fascist cousin to be just as dangerous. If not even more so. They can do something, albeit not everything, to keep their kids from being alone with unknown adults. But there is nothing they can truly do to protect their kids from a pervasive mindset that incites hatred, violence, and injustice towards them.

You see the two cousins as having actually committed a crime, while the other simply has offensive beliefs. But that is NOT all he is doing. He is leading an organization actively spreading those beliefs and hatred, in hopes that one day he CAN act on his evil. It is scary on a different level, and there is NO CHANCE I would let my children in a room with him, not even surrounded by a dozen other trusted adults. I could expect those adults to prevent my child from being sexually assaulted in that moment. I could not expect them to prevent my child from being exposed to hate speech in that moment.

You have good points about the power of words and ideas. I guess I'm just not totally sure that this "fascism" is really trying to hurt other people, like a nazi group might do. Frankly the whole thing is extremely confusing to me. I'd link the site but don't really want to drive traffic to it. There is not a word about oppressing other people but it is extremely strange. The site opposes democracy, capitalism, equality and liberalism so you can see why the beliefs MIGHT be problematic for other groups but it isn't explicit... And it is just weird. Plus the cousin doesn't say anything to anyone about his beliefs. We discovered it through facebook posting that were kinda weird and some tags. So I'm thinking he's more weird than really racist or anti-semitic but I don't KNOW. I haven't ever heard a word of hate speech from him but I guess you never know?

Thanks for responding though. I find this a really interesting and disturbing dynamic. I do believe in the power of loving someone who is doing wrong and don't think that has to be the same thing as accepting their error or crime. FWIW, my cousin is my age (40) so too old to be doing this as some kind of weird rebellion or phase.

[hillview]

I'd cut them all off to be honest. I'd consider if the fascist is possibly into guns or other violence and call the FBI if I was at all even a little concerned. I am so sorry you have this on your plate.

[MamaSnoo]

I'd cut them all off to be honest. I'd consider if the fascist is possibly into guns or other violence and call the FBI if I was at all even a little concerned. I am so sorry you have this on your plate.

Yup. I consider myself very tolerant and loving in general, but mama's got no time for all that....

[BunnyBee]

Another cut them all off vote. Anyone who's trying to you know, be just a little differentiated from a Nazi? Nope. And child porn? Nope. Why would you want to normalize their behaviors or associate with someone so evil?

[niccig]

My dad cut out his brother for drug addiction - final straw was the brother's dealer turning up at our house to get money owed to him. We had no contact for years, and we lived next to my grandmother. We were not allowed to go see her when Dad's brother was visiting. Dad started contact again when I was in my 20's - his brother still tries to get money from him, or he tries to tell my Dad where his stash is, so Dad can get to it first, before the ex-wife does. :47: Dad shuts down any talk like that as he doesn't want to know. Contact is mostly phone calls, with some visits, but Dad can't travel now because of health reasons. It never felt weird to me to no have contact with my uncle or cousins, it was explained as decision best for our family and we have other family we saw all the time. My dad doesn't seem to regret cutting his brother out - he told me once he knows who his brother is and keeps him at arm's length for good reasons. They were never close, never had a good relationship, so nothing to miss.

Just telling you this to say it happens all the time and you can explain it as making decisions best for your immediate family.

[citymama]

If it's possible to do so, I'd keep people out of my life that I don't want in it. No guilt needed. These are not close relatives and it doesn't sound like you want to or have to associate with them. I wouldn't go out of my way to engage with them in any way.

[LBW]

I'd have nothing to do with them and would not attend family events if they were present. No way would I willingly expose my boys to people with such abhorrent beliefs and no way would I normalize their thoughts/actions by treating them like other family members.

[DualvansMommy]

Another vote to keep them out. To be honest, they wouldn't even be on my radar to discuss. it's a waste of time and nonstarter to devote this much mental energy to distant relatives you only see every few years??

I used to work with Pedophiles, and the stuff I heard was hard core. So child porn is my hard line. There's just no helping once people cross certain lines.


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[trcy]

I'd have nothing to do with them and would not attend family events if they were present. No way would I willingly expose my boys to people with such abhorrent beliefs and no way would I normalize their thoughts/actions by treating them like other family members.

ITA!


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[specialp]

Another vote to keep them out. To be honest, they wouldn't even be on my radar to discuss. it's a waste of time and nonstarter to devote this much mental energy to distant relatives you only see every few years??



:yeahthat:



I do believe in the power of loving someone who is doing wrong and don't think that has to be the same thing as accepting their error or crime. .

Love isn't enough for these types of issues. It's likely these people were well loved by close family before they took this path and still ended up there. They need help beyond my capabilities and my duty is to protect my family and my impressionable and vulnerable children. If it were just you, you could make different decisions about your interactions, but not with kids.