Teaching responsibility while following school rules?

[Liziz]

DD is 5 and in Pre-K. She tends to believe she can do whatever she wants and someone will fix it for her. The only way she really seems to learn anything is if she actually has some logical consequence that she sees as her own responsibility. For example, she absolutely refused to bring her mittens with her anywhere, until we went on a walk (where I'd suggested she bring her mittens, she refused) and her hands got freezing and she was miserable. In the past I would have brought a back-up pair of mittens, but the time that I didn't do that and simply told her mittens were her responsibility is the time it actually got through to her.

I've made it clear to DD that it is her responsibility to bring her coat to school every day. I remind her as we are leaving the house, but I refuse to carry the coat out to the car. I have a toddler and who knows what else to carry, I don't need to carry her coat! She routinely tries to get me to bring it for her. I never fight her about it, just tell her it's her responsibility and move on. Until today, she's always ended up choosing to grab it. Well -- today she didn't. She was reminded like normal, but she chose not to carry it out of the house. I didn't get it for her. I figured she'd be cold when they played outside, but that she'd survive and learn her lesson, like she did with the mittens. It was in the 50's today, so it's not like freezing weather, and DD was wearing pants and a long-sleeve shirt. I meant to give the teacher a heads up, but she was swamped at drop-off and I forgot.

When I picked up DD, the teacher approached me and said in a really disapproving manner "why did DD not have a coat today?" I explained (DD was standing right there) that it was DD's responsibility to bring her coat each day, and that I reminded her that morning but she chose not to bring the coat, and therefore had to deal with the consequences of that choice. Well, the teacher then explained to me that the "consequences" of my choice (to allow her to not bring a coat) were that she (the teacher) was scrambling around trying to find a suitable coat or sweater for DD to wear when they went outside. She said they were not allowed to let the kids go outside without a coat. I apologized, told her I'd meant to tell her that morning, and said that I really believe DD needs to learn responsibility but didn't mean for it to impact her (the teacher). I said I wished that she'd just sent DD to the front office and made her skip outside play time, rather than stress about finding her something to wear (they send kids to the front when they need to pull them from the classroom for some reason, so it's not like that's outside of something they do) -- but the teacher said they weren't allowed to do that.

Anyhow -- I feel terrible for putting the teacher in a bad situation and not thinking through that it could happen. I really just thought DD would be a little cold, learn her lesson, and life would continue. I do understand that the school probably has some rule that requires kids in coats under a certain temp and that makes sense -- it just didn't occur to me in advance. I apologized to the teacher and in the future, obviously I will have to make sure DD has her coat, even if that means I'm the one carrying it into school.

My question is this: how can I help DD learn to be responsible when I can't actually let her learn her own lesson?

I feel like today just taught DD that she's right -- she can do what she wants (not bring her coat) and someone else will fix it for her (teacher found her a coat to borrow). I realize this is one small situation, but given the temperament of my DD and her willingness to push the limits, I have a very strong feeling this won't be nearly the last time I'm faced with a situation like this. I've only recently started trying to use this logical consequences approach after realizing it works with her, so I'm still navigating how to do it without being rude/inconveniencing other people.

[smilequeen]

She's just a preschooler. Sometimes things are going to be fixed for her because she's still really young. Responsibility is learned on a continuum with more and more coming as they get older. I'd just make her bring the coat and consider that something she isn't ready to be responsible for. I mean, I still grab my 6 year old's coat for him if he forgets. My 9 and 12 year olds? Well, they'll learn from that mistake.

[mmsmom]

I think she is too young to fully understand natural consequences. Maybe in a couple years but for now I think she still needs your guidance.

[JenChem]

I think you were absolutely right to put her in charge of the coat (with reminders as a backup!), totally reasonable. Being cold at recess was also a perfectly reasonable consequence. I think the teacher was out of line to undermine you in front of your child. I also feel like most schools have a stock of backup clothes or lost and found she should have been able to access, it is a shame that isn't available.

Having said that, it is unfortunate the teacher was put out. Now that you know what the situation is, I'd recommend finding a backup coat and leaving it in her cubby. Bonus points if it is one she doesn't like so there is still a consequence.

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[meggie t]

I agree with above posters that say she is still young. I completely understand your frustration, though.

[bigsis]

She's young. Unfortunately, this is going to be a LOOONG teaching process. :( A lot of us, moms of older kids, know that we're still teaching this lesson. My kids are 13 and 11. :bag My 13yo DD sometimes will attempt to "pacify" me by bringing a jacket, but won't wear it b/c it's not as fashionable as her top. End of the day, she'll freeze her buns off--not me.

[Green_Tea]

I totally get why you want to teach responsibility and BRAVO - but it's not reasonable to expect the school to enforce your rules. There are probably tons of parents who forget to send outerwear who would be PISSED if their kid was told to sit in the office or was sent outside in the cold without a coat.

Honestly, five is too young to expect your DD to be consistently responsible in this way, so you need a back-up plan. An extra coat in the car or at school is what I would do.

[SnuggleBuggles]

The coat just might not be the battle to pick as it impacts others.


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[abh5e8]

I would just make her go back from the car to the house and get the coat. I use natural consequences even with my young children and it does work. But here are also many times they just have to do what I say. For example, if we get to the car without her coat, she has to go back for it. And next day we leave earlier, so she misses that time to do what he wants inside . Or, she can't bring a toy or stuffie along in the car. (My kids love to bring a toy, so this is a great consequence.)

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[squimp]

I think that teachers and parents should have a team approach, especially for preK. This sounds more adversarial than I would like. I can understand why the teacher was upset, a coat is a necessity like lunch, and at that age I would have probably taken it for her. But I can totally see why you were upset.

[AngB]

As a former teacher, I think the teacher could have been less of a bitch about it (asking you why dd didn't have a coat was over the line, IMO. I have a 5yo and his school would not do that. Actually our former idiotic babysitter brought my 4yo to preschool without even a jacket when it was in the 40s (after I had told her to bring his coat) ...I didn't hear a word about it from his school so I guess they survived. On a 50 degree day I would let my 5yo go to school without a coat if he chose not too (although he does have a jacket in his backpack). I really feel like the teacher was out of line to give you a hard time about it. I have worked at a military base CDC, they had plenty of extra clothes.

[belovedgandp]

I'd be annoyed with the teacher's question. Our district has a required jacket if it is under 60 rule. It can be any kind of sweater or jacket but a definitely outerwear. If they do not have a jacket in K-5 they are sent to Lost and Found to find one.

If it's a given policy like that and with younger kids I'd make sure the jacket got to school. I understand the school not getting in the business of following through with "home" rules. For all the parents who'd want their kid to be a little cold and then they'd remember there would be as many angry at the school for sending their snowflake outside without a coat.

If the stand-off resulted in me making the extra trip inside to put the jacket in the backpack to make sure it went to school, there would be a consequence at home for not listening to instructions.

[HannaAddict]

Wow. She's in preschool. It is not developmentally appropriate to expect her to "take responsibility" to the level you expect. You need to adjust your expectations and I would think about seeking some sort of parent coaching to help you adjust and discuss children's development and what it takes for them to consistently follow instructions. Punishment, even in the form of logical (to an adult) consequences can be doled out all day and if the child is to young, won't result in the behavior you want all the time, as you are experiencing. The teacher should not have been rude though. She could have mentioned the missing coat in a nice way.


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[JenChem]

I don't understand the people saying expectations are too high. She is telling her daughter to take a jacket. She said she reminded her. If I tell my 4 year old to get her jacket, she does. That's not a major expectation. If it became a power struggle, I'd let her be cold.

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[SnuggleBuggles]

I don't understand the people saying expectations are too high. She is telling her daughter to take a jacket. She said she reminded her. If I tell my 4 year old to get her jacket, she does. That's not a major expectation. If it became a power struggle, I'd let her be cold.

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But she can't do that because the teacher expects a coat.


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[petesgirl]

Well, on the one hand-she is only 5 yr old and can't be expected to *remember* the coat. My DS's kindergarten teacher told us on the first day of school that at this age, remembering to return homework is the parent's responsibility, not the child's responsibility. So, as others have said, she may be a bit young.

On the other hand, she is 5 yrs old and she should be able to follow a one-step instruction like 'Get your coat."

I think the teacher re-acted poorly and I would be annoyed (I mean, I'm sure it isn't the first time a child has forgotten a coat and they should have some non-mad-scramble policy in place for when it happens), a polite reminder to bring the coat the next day should have been sufficient. But I would be sure she always had her coat from now on. I would not get the coat and carry it to the car for her though. I would tell her right before leaving (as in, the very last thing before leaving the house so that it doesn't get jumbled in with all the other last minute things) to get her coat and I would supervise her walking out to the car with it. We would not leave until she had done it herself (assuming you don't have other time constraints and that she isn't already carrying a bunch of other things). We always just leave DS's coat in the car, actually, because he can't wear it in his carseat and doesn't need it in the house so it is easier for now. We have this battle with getting socks and shoes (I often help him get them on but he is responsible for getting them from his room when I ask him too. I won't get them for him.) and DS knows that if he gets to school early he gets to play before the bell rings so I remind him that the longer it takes for him to get his socks and shoes, the less play time he will have and that usually gets him to hurry. Can you think of any sort of positive consequence like this that you can associate with her obeying on the first reminder to get her coat?

If I remember right from reading the books, you are following the 'Love and Logic' method of letting her learn by natural consequences and I would continue doing that at the home that way you have. If you will be outside for a short time and you know she isn't in danger of freezing to death then I would ask her to get her coat, if she didn't then I would remind her she may be cold but I would ultimately let her deal with the decision making/consequences in that controlled environment.

[mackmama]

Wanting to reach responsibility is admirable, but I think 5yo is too young for what you're trying to teach.

[Liziz]

First, thanks for the helpful ideas. With those ideas, I am now thinking of some different ways to still make allow for natural consequences, and I'm also realizing when it comes to school I may just drop her out of the equation entirely (i.e - I won't ask her to get her coat at all, I'll just do it. I don't love that, but it's better than the alternative of having her refuse to bring her coat, then watching me pick it up and bring it for her.)

I was a little surprised by how many of you felt I was out of line for my expectations. I just wanted to share the following additional details, because I really don't believe I'm being cruel or mean here at all:

1. I do understand she's 5. I do not expect her to remember her coat on her own. I expect her to carry it to the car, after I remind her. I have an incredibly smart, strong willed child and I feel like it's my job to keep up with her, not lower expectations. This is a child who is pushing the limits and waiting to see if/where I'll set them. Here's the way the conversation actually went: On our way out the door, I said "DD, it's cold today, please grab your coat" (while pointing to it, where it was 2 inches away from her). DD replied: "I don't want to. You get it, Mommy." I replied: "Oh, your coat is your responsibility honey, I don't do that. Please grab it and let's get in the car." DD replied: "Well, I don't want to." So, I said "It's cold outside and you're going to play outside today. Playing probably won't be much fun if you're cold! Please grab it and get in the car, I am not picking up your coat." DD didn't bring it, so it didn't go to school. So this is NOT like I'm waltzing out the door without reminding her and laughing when she's cold.

2. Development varies a lot at 5. I know there's a lot of kids who aren't ready for these kinds of lessons, but I do think my DD is. I know this, because we've used it on many other situations and it does work. Since we started trying to do logical consequences (like from Love and Logic), she's really responded to the method and there's way less fights and power struggles in our house. She is a kid who pushes limits to the extreme, and I've found if I don't do natural consequences we either end up in a big power struggle, or she just pushes the limits further. (for example with the coat -- if I had just grabbed her coat after she said "no, you get it Mom", then I can almost promise you the next morning she would have tried something further, like "you put my shoes on, Mom, I'm not doing it.") And time outs/time ins/positive reinforcements have never motivated her at all. So it's pretty nice to find something that actually works where she doesn't feel like we're being the bad guys.

3. Although I do wish the teacher didn't "call me out" in front of DD, I'm not mad at the teacher or school. I said I felt badly about how it played out in regards to them, and I do. I understand why they have their rules in place and I don't think they're unreasonable. That's why I was simply coming here to get some good ideas for how to help continue teaching DD responsibility, in an age appropriate way, while also ensuring teachers at school are not affected.

[123LuckyMom]

I completely agree with you that carrying her own coat-- not remembering on her own to bring it, but carrying it herself when asked rather than expecting someone else to do it for her-- is an entirely reasonable expectation even for a three year old. I have a similarly strong willed 4 year old DD who continually asserts that she "can't" bring her dishes to the sink or put her laundry away when what she really means is that she would far prefer someone else do those things for her. Your daughter is entirely capable of carrying her coat when asked.

I understand you were in a rush and made the decision on the fly, but things might have gone differently if you had explained the situation to the teacher ahead of time and requested her help in finding a solution. Many preschool teachers have great ideas in this regard. If another issue comes up in future, it might be worth consulting the teacher ahead of time.

If it were me, I would sit down with my DD and have a discussion about why she resists carrying her coat and how the two of you can fix the problem of you having too much to carry and her not learning to do things for herself. See what your DD comes up with. The solution would have to work to solve both problems.

It may be, though, that this particular issue has become too much of a struggle of wills. Maybe there needs to be a wider effort to have some positive reinforcement around following instructions, or doing things for herself, or helping you when you are overburdened. I might start with an overall plan of some sort of reward when your DD helps do anything. She might choose by herself to include the coat in the process. Until then you would take the coat without asking her to do it, but there would be other things she would do by herself or when asked. My kids love it when I do a "happy dance." They will do almost anything if I will embarrass myself for their pleasure. You can be inventive in your rewards. Even just catching her doing things right and praising her can have a big impact.

Natural consequences work, but there are other things that work, too. First and foremost, I'd scrap the battle. If you guys can't figure out how to be a team with the jacket issue, I'd take that issue out of the equation and focus on the learning goal rather than on that specific way of achieving it.


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[Pyrodjm]

Well I'll be the voice of descent. Dressing yourself is a task a 5yo should be able to perform independently, this includes dressing for the weather, coats, rain boots, etc. Here 5yo is Kindergarten. I expected my 5yos to follow a one step directions given by me when we lefte the house. After 2 years of dressing themselves, they know what is required when we leave anyway. "We are leaving put on your pants/shoes/coat" is a routine direction given daily and compliance is expected. There are consequences for refusing to follow directions in my home. They aren't always natural consequences, because I cannot consistently allow my daughters to leave the house shoeless or coatless to teach them a lesson. But if I must be the one to carry out the task (ie. Put the shoes on the child, put your coat on), the child will have a direct consequence: loss of toy, privileges, etc. Dressing yourself is a task a 5yo should be able to perform independently, this includes dressing for the weather, coats, rain boots, etc.

[specialp]

I was a little surprised by how many of you felt I was out of line for my expectations. I just wanted to share the following additional details, because I really don't believe I'm being cruel or mean here at all:

1. I do understand she's 5. I do not expect her to remember her coat on her own. I expect her to carry it to the car, after I remind her. .

I agree with you and we do the same.

My similarly aged child does better with choices. Coats/jackets were a battle for us and we have a similar school rule so not having one isn’t an option. I kept a spare hoodie -still fit but almost outgrown - in the car as a backup. It wouldn’t have been warm enough some days, but we only had to resort to it one time when DS refused to get his main coat. So the choice for DS everyday was grab your (favorite color big boy) coat or you’ll have to use the green (not his favorite color, almost outgrown) one in the car. He went from refusing to always making sure he had his favorite one. (He actually has a few options and there's almost always one better for that day's weather, but as long he takes one, I'm fine.) He just does better with choices, but I have to avoid the procrastinating. I ask and then warn I’ll count to 3. If he hasn’t made the decision by then, I get to make the decision which to him, is just the worst thing ever. [ETA: That was the one day we resorted to the hoodie. After that, he decided to make the decision quickly to grab his coat.]

[TwinFoxes]

I'm really surprised at the number of people who think five is too young to remember a coat. That was not a rule of mine when my girls were five, but I think it's age-appropriate. My girls were in Kindergarten at five, and they were in charge of backpacks and coats at the end of the day when they came home (the teachers didn't get them for the kids.) I don't see why they shouldn't be responsible at the beginning of the day too. ETA: The fact that this is the first time OPs daughter forgot her coat kind of shows that she is old enough to take responsibility.

I would say that since it's against school rules for them to not have a coat, this is battle that you shouldn't fight.

This year, in third grade, one of my DDs forgot her coat. It was in the fifties and she was wearing a sweatshirt. I only noticed as she was dashing out of the car at kiss and ride. The next day when I was volunteering and saw her teacher. The teacher went on and on about DD not having a coat, how she felt so bad for her, blahblah. I tried really hard not to roll my eyes. OP, I would have been really pissed if it had occurred in front of my DD.

[Green_Tea]

I think the real problem that people are trying to get at is not that the expectation that she'll carry her coat is unreasonable (it's completely reasonable!), it's that natural consequences in this particular situation simply won't work. The OP's daughter is totally willing to live with the consequence of not having her coat (be cold) but it's a school rule that she have a coat, and parents are expected to follow that rule, not kids.

I totally agree with a PP who said a 5 year old should be able to dress themselves. I don't think that's the issue here at all.

I am a huge fan of natural consequences in general, but in this case it's just not going to work for the OP. This is one of those things that mom will need to be in a charge of.

Here's an analogous situation: When he was in 3rd grade my DS didn't care about doing HW and was completely willing to live with the natural consequence of not doing it (a bad grade on his report card). I wished the school would make him miss recess and do his HW then, but the school has a policy to never take recess away. His parent (me!) did not think that the natural consequence in this situation was meeting the child's need to learn, so I made him do his HW every night - the (unnatural?) consequence was that he and I butted heads for a solid year, but the HW got done. Sometimes natural consequences are simply not compelling or appropriate.

[bisous]

I think the real problem that people are trying to get at is not that the expectation that she'll carry her coat is unreasonable (it's completely reasonable!), it's that natural consequences in this particular situation simply won't work. The OP's daughter is totally willing to live with the consequence of not having her coat (be cold) but it's a school rule that she have a coat, and parents are expected to follow that rule, not kids.

I totally agree with a PP who said a 5 year old should be able to dress themselves. I don't think that's the issue here at all.

I am a huge fan of natural consequences in general, but in this case it's just not going to work for the OP. This is one of those things that mom will need to be in a charge of.

Here's an analogous situation: When he was in 3rd grade my DS didn't care about doing HW and was completely willing to live with the natural consequence of not doing it (a bad grade on his report card). I wished the school would make him miss recess and do his HW then, but the school has a policy to never take recess away. His parent (me!) did not think that the natural consequence in this situation was meeting the child's need to learn, so I made him do his HW every night - the (unnatural?) consequence was that he and I butted heads for a solid year, but the HW got done. Sometimes natural consequences are simply not compelling or appropriate.

I agree with all of this.

OP, you know your DD best. All kids are different. The way you describe the interaction you have with your DD would drive me absolutely crazy. 123LuckyMom has some good suggestions on how to deal with that kind of battle and I agree that it seems to have escalated and become a thing on its own. Still, I'll tell you how it would work in my family and with my stubborn DS. If I needed DS to do something, if it wasn't an option for me to "pick my battles", I wouldn't accept the answer no. I know that is adversarial and I don't love doing that with my kids but sometimes they just HAVE to do what I say. For my stubborn DS, asking him to do something means that he'll say "no". So I don't ask him, I tell him what is going to happen and I apply the pressure I need until he does it. I pretty much tell him he'll have an undesirable consequence unless he complies and then I start counting. I don't love parenting that way and I try really hard to use playful parenting, to try to connect first, to ask kindly, and yes sometimes I employ natural consequences but sometimes none of those are IMO the right option. I think if our entire relationship was this adversarial it would be a bad thing. I don't think using a little authority is such a bad thing. For our family to function, DS really needed to learn that sometimes he is required to just do what I ask him to do, full stop. This approach has worked for our family. We do have less battles now, after several YEARS of consistency.

[smilequeen]

The expectation really isn't out of line but the natural consequence as it pertains to school is probably not completely age appropriate if you know what I mean. They generally will not be allowed to go out and be cold at school and missing outside time is detrimental to a young child's learning experience and the younger the child, the more of a pain it would be for the teacher (although I do think she could have handled it a bit better).

I have a strong willed 6 year old (after 2 easygoing kids, so I'm still learning with him), and only you can know which battles are worth fighting...but you do have to choose your battles or you will spend way too much time battling. This kind of persistence is a major pain while they are young, but will be of great value when they are adults. I have to remind myself of that every.single.day.

[Kestrel]

I have a little different take on this than most here have mentioned. I would not have used the natural consequence of being cold in this situation; that would be more appropriate if she forgot her coat. In my opinion, she is too young to remember it.

She didn't "forget", she choose to disobey when you told her to "please get your coat". Now, I would not have made her wear the coat, if she's cold or not is her body/her choice. But parent told her to bring it, and she refused.

I would address this situation as willful disobedience to the parent's instruction, not directly involving the coat at all.

[Pear]

The natural consequence here isn't being cold at recess. The consequence is being late to school because you shouldn't have left without her bringing the coat.

And that is the big point. Choose your moments. If failure to complete the task has a bigger natural consequence for you than for the child, then it isn't a battle to pick.

[abh5e8]

I have a little different take on this than most here have mentioned. I would not have used the natural consequence of being cold in this situation; that would be more appropriate if she forgot her coat. In my opinion, she is too young to remember it.

She didn't "forget", she choose to disobey when you told her to "please get your coat". Now, I would not have made her wear the coat, if she's cold or not is her body/her choice. But parent told her to bring it, and she refused.

I would address this situation as willful disobedience to the parent's instruction, not directly involving the coat at all.
Yes, all of this.

[JBaxter]

I have a 2nd grader and I still say did you remember your backpack and your RC book. If not he takes his bum back in the house and gets it. I guess I'm confused on why she doesn't put it on before heading out the door.

[KrisM]

I have a 2nd grader and I still say did you remember your backpack and your RC book. If not he takes his bum back in the house and gets it. I guess I'm confused on why she doesn't put it on before heading out the door.

She's probably heading to the car in garage and doesn't wear the coat in the carseat. My kids just grab the coat and get in the car. They put it on to get out wherever we are.

OP, I'd tie the refusing to carry the coat to being late to where you are going, rather than recess at school. If you are late, then you can't do XXX. When we've had trouble getting out the door for the bus, the consequence has been the next morning, there is no reading, no TV, no nothing until everyone is 100% ready to leave.

[carolinamama]

I agree that your DD is asserting her independence and it is taking the form of disobeying you. I do not disagree with natural consequences and use them on my own kids frequently. The only issue that I would have in your case is that it impacts her teacher and potentially other kids in class. It's not big when the consequence inconveniences us but it's tough on a teacher responsible for many kids. I know my 5 yo DD in preschool has had days that they are not able to play outside because several kids didn't bring adequate outerwear. At that age, I do take responsibility for her coat and lunch if she hasn't grabbed them since her teachers will have to scramble to find a coat/lunch or keep kids in. Now my 8 yo and 11 yo are responsible for making their own lunches, grabbing coats, packing homework and whatever else they may need.

I guess what I want to say is that I completely understand where you are coming from and that I do think she will eventually learn responsibility over time, even if you make it your job to grab her coat. Choose your battles as they work for you, your family, your school, and your kids.

[trales]

This has nothing to do with the coat really. This is more of a situation where you asked your kid to do something multiple times and they said "no, you do it". So you didn't do it for them and rather than them suffering, you got in trouble in front of the kid and the kid "won" by learning they don't have to listen to you in this situation.

Here is what I would do. Go to a thrift store and buy the ugliest coat you can find. Put her label in it and take it to school. Next morning "DD, get your coat to go to school" "No, Mom, you do it, I don't want to and I have to have a coat!". You say get in the car, I have a special coat for you at school if you won't carry your good coat. Kid gets to school and finds world's ugliest, but warm and safe coat, but has no choice but to wear it.

[doberbrat]

I had to laugh a little at this b/c on Fri it was 36 here with a stiff wind and I saw kids going outside in sweatshirts only - no coats. Heck I even saw 1 or 2 kids in shorts!!


The natural consequence here isn't being cold at recess. The consequence is being late to school because you shouldn't have left without her bringing the coat.

Personally, I know being late to school is not a consequence at all to my kids!


I would address this situation as willful disobedience to the parent's instruction, not directly involving the coat at all.

Actually I agree with this. I dont think THIS situation is about the coat but refusal to get it after reminders.

OP I 'get' what you're trying to do and I agree with your method. I'd be pretty annoyed at the teacher making a big deal of not having a coat when its in the 50s.

That being said, being a teacher is HARD. Just as you're annoyed at her not sending your kid out w/o a coat to uphold your consequence, another parent could EASILY be mad that the teacher 'let' their child go out in such 'cold' weather. Sometimes, teachers cant win.

IMO This is only the first of MANY such conflicts in your future with schools. Teachers genuinely try their best for kids - but remember not everyone has the same idea of what is 'best'. Try to let it go and figure out a way around it - I like the ugly coat idea. Or, if you normally stay outside after school, say, "Nope sorry you dont have your coat today" Or you could even insist the coat is in the backpack after school ends (the day before) and make that a priority before any 'fun time'. If you really want to make that point stick, you could pick her up for recess and sit in the car until recess is over.

[BunnyBee]

The whole "get off your butt parebting" thing doesn't end with toddlers. She doesn't have a choice about getting the coat. It's a school rule. You can get the coat or I will help you get your coat.

Love and Logic--that's the one by the far-right religious group? If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's got no actual child development research behind it.

[ahisma]

I definitely had to adjust my parenting some when they went to school - they are with the teachers for a large portion of the day and it takes some time to get used to that shared responsibility. I remember being taken to task for bringing in a forgotten water bottle and being told that DS1 should learn more independence - meanwhile this was a kid who dressed himself and packed his own lunch (under supervision) daily - I figured that was pretty independent for 5 yo. The messaging was overly gruff buy I never brought in a forgotten water bottle again...until the next year when I got a similarly gruff comment for NOT bringing it in;)

We have a firm rule at our house that they don't leave without everything that they need for the day. The consequences vary by kid. DS2 is horrified by the thought of being late, so that works for him. DS1 doesn't want to lose screen time, so any failure to follow the rules in the morning would trigger that. At the end of the day the consequences aren't the core issue, it's that it's been established as non-negotiable.

[KrisM]

The whole "get off your butt parebting" thing doesn't end with toddlers. She doesn't have a choice about getting the coat. It's a school rule. You can get the coat or I will help you get your coat.

Love and Logic--that's the one by the far-right religious group? If it's the one I'm thinking of, it's got no actual child development research behind it.

Are you thinking of Babywise? I think that is the one with no actual child/baby development research. Love and Logic does not seem to fit that description.

[basil]

My son is 5 and similarly spirited. My natural consequence is usually that he loses choice. At least in his independent mind, this is a very negative consequence!

Example: DS go get dressed by yourself, or if you choose not to then I will get you dressed and pick your clothes.

DS put your shoes on so we can go to school. If you choose not to then we will get in the car with no shoes, and I will choose what shoes we bring to school today.

For him it works not so much because he doesn't like certain shoes or shirts, but because he really cares if he looses the option to choose. Ymmv of course!

[Liziz]

Thank you for all the continued thoughts and ideas! It's giving me a lot to think through and new ideas about the way to tackle things. I think this is really the first time where I had to consider more than "my rules" (i.e. - school rules too) so it is definitely a learning experience for me all the way around! At least now I won't forget to think about it!