Posting for my sister: niece on pornography website

[mommy111]

My sister is besides herself right now. Apparently, my DNiece (12yo 6th grader) had downloaded a virus onto her laptop, and in the process of removing it, she found out that DN had been visiting both adult story websites as well as pornography websites. My sister is distraught. This is after she has discovered DN a couple of times breaking rules (taking off top and wandering around in tank top, perusing the risqué sections of cosmopolitan, which they had conversations about) So 2 questions:
1) is this normal curiosity or does this child need psychological help?
2) How does she approach this with DN tomorrow Am?

[SnuggleBuggles]

1. Normal curiosity, especially if given no other reading materials or support. I remember seeking out any books I could find, mostly so I could learn more (we didn't talk about sex ever).
2. Open a dialogue without freaking out. Offer good resources for questions and natural interest.
But, a strong reminder why she should never share personal info, photos...
ETA- shutting down access to things like Cosmo clearly didn't work and probably pushed her towards accessible but far more inappropriate content. Rethinking the boundaries is probably necessary.

Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk

[mommy111]

So just to clarify, she didn't shut off access to cosmo etc, this was online and my sister has never done any 'parental control' that was just a conversation
Re not posting pics online: what is the worst case scenario that could happen? I've had that conversation with my (admittedly older than DN) kid and she's asked me what could happen/laughed at me

[azzeps]

The pictures can go anywhere! Once you put a picture out on the internet, there is the potential that anyone could see it. Prospective employers (maybe colleges, too?) check Facebook and other social media profiles now. Don't post anything you wouldn't want your grandmother, teacher or boss to see!

[mikala]

So just to clarify, she didn't shut off access to cosmo etc, this was online and my sister has never done any 'parental control' that was just a conversation
Re not posting pics online: what is the worst case scenario that could happen? I've had that conversation with my (admittedly older than DN) kid and she's asked me what could happen/laughed at me
Re: the pics, a teen should assume a anyone they know now could potentially see them, their future boss/in-laws/...even potentially their kids someday (!!) , and in the meantime the pics could be up an any number of skeezy sites.

[mommy111]

The pictures can go anywhere! Once you put a picture out on the internet, there is the potential that anyone could see it. Prospective employers (maybe colleges, too?) check Facebook and other social media profiles now. Don't post anything you wouldn't want your grandmother, teacher or boss to see!


Re: the pics, a teen should assume a anyone they know now could potentially see them, their future boss/in-laws/...even potentially their kids someday (!!) , and in the meantime the pics could be up an any number of skeezy sites.

Thank you for clarifying this!!

[JBaxter]

It is a normal curiosity but she needs to come down hard for a while. In my house there would be no electronic anything for a long time. Any school work that would need computer access would have to be done at the kitchen table with an adult. No phone no tablet no video games for an extended period of time.

As for the pictures I'm assuming she was not nude in any of them and she is 12 she will change her looks a lot in 6 yrs+ But pictures are forever.

[gymnbomb]

I think this is totally normal curiosity. I did the same things when I was her age, but never even went on a date or kissed a boy until I was in college. I'm guessing it was my way of satisfying my curiosity and raging teenage hormones without actually going and doing those things myself. My parents never found out (to my knowledge anyway) but I imagine if they had there would have been a long conversation about trust and more limits on my use of the internet, which at the time was incredibly slow dial up only available on the family computer anyway.

[mommy111]

It is a normal curiosity but she needs to come down hard for a while. In my house there would be no electronic anything for a long time. Any school work that would need computer access would have to be done at the kitchen table with an adult. No phone no tablet no video games for an extended period of time.

As for the pictures I'm assuming she was not nude in any of them and she is 12 she will change her looks a lot in 6 yrs+ But pictures are forever.

No nude photos just instagram pics with friends and selfies with lots and lots of make up
It's the porn websites that's really bothering my sister, that and the adult fare (literotica etc)

[JBaxter]

12 yr old pics are not usually a concern Its the teen pics of drinking smoking risqué behavior that will / can cause issue. I would still suggest to your sister she clamps down on it now so it doesn't escalate. I think my 13 yr olds takes 20 selfies before he posts one and hes a boy! LOL

[TwinFoxes]

So she hasn't posted anything to these adult sites, she's just visited adult story websites like Literotica? And she has NOT posted pictures other than regular selfies? I'm just trying to be sure I understand. My response is with the assumption that this is what has happened.

First of all, you're not supposed to have an insta account until you're 13, right? So she'd bounced from that until she's "of age." Her mom gave her freedom on the internet and she proved she can't handle it. (I have no idea when she turns 13). I would also have clamp down on her internet access similar to what Jbax suggested.

I don't think she needs psychological help at all. I remember finding my brother's playboys (or whatevers) at that age. I was shocked, but fascinated and looked at everything (which was pretty mild compared to what's out there these days, just naked ladies, no sex). The problem with internet porn, is it's a rabbit hole. You start on something relatively mild, and a few clicks later you're somewhere much kinkier. I would talk to her about what she's looking at and why. Calmly.

I don't understand the tank top thing. She was walking around her own house in a tank top? I'm not sure why that's an issue.

I get why your sister is upset she's looking at adult websites, but I don't think it's something she needs to freak out over.

[TwinFoxes]

No nude photos just instagram pics with friends and selfies with lots and lots of make up


But, I'm assuming her mom knows she wears makeup? I'm really confused. Fully clothed selfies shouldn't be part of the conversation, it will just cloud the issue and make your sister look unreasonable, honestly.

[almostmom]

I think it's important to talk to our kids about porn. I don't really want my kids looking at it, but I have to assume they have. I was seeking out the photography sections in bookstores at that time to get glimpses of nude people - if I'd had internet access I definitly would have been trying to see what I could!

We have talked to our son about porn. We have said that it's not all bad, but there are a lot of disturbing images out there. Most importantly, what he might see in porn is not necessarily how sex is and it can distort expectations. Porm often highlights fantasies. Sex is something that needs to be consensual, and in porn, you can not always know if the people want to be doing what they are doing. This is some of the conversation we had with him. I think it's important to talk about, because they are all going to see it, in my opinion.

I don't think these behaviors require any kind of therapy. But they do require a conversation. Even if I think kids will look at porn, I don't think they should!

[petesgirl]

I think it's important to talk to our kids about porn. I don't really want my kids looking at it, but I have to assume they have. I was seeking out the photography sections in bookstores at that time to get glimpses of nude people - if I'd had internet access I definitly would have been trying to see what I could!

We have talked to our son about porn. We have said that it's not all bad, but there are a lot of disturbing images out there. Most importantly, what he might see in porn is not necessarily how sex is and it can distort expectations. Porm often highlights fantasies. Sex is something that needs to be consensual, and in porn, you can not always know if the people want to be doing what they are doing. This is some of the conversation we had with him. I think it's important to talk about, because they are all going to see it, in my opinion.

I don't think these behaviors require any kind of therapy. But they do require a conversation. Even if I think kids will look at porn, I don't think they should!

I love the points you have made. I was actually listening to a talk radio program last night and the guest was a family therapist who specializes in Porn Recovery. Nowadays, the issue is definitely not IF our kids will see it, it is WHEN. And you are so right that Porn casts very unreal expectations about what sex is, the therapist said that so much of today's soft Porn involves mild violence even.
I agree with others about having a moderate reaction to the teen. Acknowledge that she is curious and be ready to provide open and honest discussion about sexual topics, but also explain why it is not OK. Perhaps showing the teen some articles and such about how porn causes some of the same changes in the brain that drug addiction does? And talk about how the people in those videos /photos deserve to have their bodies respected the same way we all do.
As far as posting pictures--I think my main concern would be that a potential predator would see them and try to lure the girls into a dangerous situation, either virtually or in real life.
I think the bottom line for this to be successful is the way the mom approaches the daughter, calm and reasoned, careful not to put her on the defensive or it may backfire.

[megs4413]

OK, this is actually something really, really important to me, so I'm jumping on a soapbox here and I'm sorry if I'm too passionate.

Also disclaimer: I'm Christian and some people will discount my opinions because of that. HOWEVER, ALL resources that I will point to are SECULAR and not faith-based in any way. Please don't disregard me as "morality police." I come at this from a psycho-social perspective, not a religious one.

First, a lot of responses are framed within the posters' experience as a child. This isn't useful in today's society. The availability and content of pornography in today's society is completely apart from what was available when we were young, even if you're a millennial like me who had access to the internet in your adolescent years. It's apples to oranges and is a huge part of the problem with the way parents today approach this topic with their kids (IMO.)

I highly suggest listening to this TED talk as a starting point.
http://fightthenewdrug.org/video-tedx-talk-the-great-porn-experiment/

Next, your sister needs to get control of the tech in her house. Many parents feel overwhelmed by this task and simply just hope for the best. This almost always leads to where your niece is right now. What's done is done, but moving forward, some changes can be made to limit access in the home to unacceptable content. Here's a resource to get started:
http://www.nclnet.org/parental_controls_managing_children_s_wireless_usa ge

Lastly, I highly suggest EVERYONE check out this website:
http://fightthenewdrug.org/

The porn industry these days is inextricably linked to human sex trafficking. If for no other reason than that, I think it's unreasonable to excuse adolescent porn usage as "normal curiosity" in this day and age. Do you really want your kids and your household to be part of the problem of human trafficking? If your family is OK with certain kinds of pornography being used by your children, then you should set that as your limit, but not all porn is created equal (it never was, but nowadays some of the more abhorrent porn practices are readily accessible in the home) and some should be eliminated from your homes completely, even if you accept porn usage as a normal part of life/development.

I could go on and on about this, but my action items in your sister's shoes would be like this:
1. Limit the child's access to electronics for the foreseeable future in order to eliminate bad habits and establish good ones.
2. Restrict access to pornography in the home through filters and other techniques.
3. TALK, TALK, TALK to your kid
4. READ, READ, READ the research and information out there about porn and today's kids.

[citymama]

Normal curiosity. But she needs to spend some time talking to he daughter about all this. Porn represents fantasy, not typical relationships or sex. Most of those women (and men) are not born that way but surgically created. These are fantasies for some people, not how she needs to behave herself. There are fetishes for pretty much everything, consensual relations between adults is most important. She is not dirty or evil for having done that, and shouldn't feel like she is. Walking around with her top off is not hurting anyone - as long as she doesn't think she *needs* to be doing that to be attractive or sexy. I don't think this calls for therapy or counseling. (Imagine if this was a 12 year old boy instead...)

But she is not an adult, and that was not intended for her viewing. She absolutely cannot be on those sites. Your sister needs to remove access to electronics until she can find a way to protect her kids from adult content through parental controls and unless her DD is willing to be absolutely on board with her mom's rules about electronics.

I would not make a huge deal about this (even though I know it is a shock to the system as a parent). You don't want her to close the doors to discussion with her DD, and you don't want her DD experiencing guilt and impulses about the forbidden fruit. To the extent possible, she should try and keep it even keel and an opportunity for a conversation with her DD about internet safety, etc.

[mommy111]

Thank you all for your responses!! Thank you so much! I am printing these and taking to sister after work tonight. Also, if anyone has any other input, pls keep it coming
Her concerns have been the same as yours: she doesn't want to feel punitive or burn her bridges with her relationship with her DD who tends to be somewhat rebellious and not always listen to mom (she will say yes......and then go her way). Also, I think all these resources have been making her have body issues. So she will google 'big boobs' etc and 'normal size breasts' and come up with *of course* porn star breasts. When I looked over her search history with sister, I would have cracked up, really, if my sister were not so distraught, with how 'normal' women bodies are portrayed in porn (I've never really been interested so this was a somewhat first to me). She apparently has friends that ask her to look up search terms and she does and goes onto those websites then they discuss.
Megs: I agree with everything you've said, esp porn being a drug, and that's what my DSister is most worried about, also she doesn't want DN to come out of this thinking this is normal sex
Anyhow, thank everyone for their input and any other tips on how to handle this are great!

[MelissaTC]

Am I the only one who was reading smutty historical romance novels in middle school?

[citymama]

Am I the only one who was reading smutty historical romance novels in middle school?

1980s smutty novels and 2017 porn videos accessible 24/7 online are two totally different things!

[*myfoursons]

THank goodness the internet wasn't around when I was a kid. When I was in 4th grade my neighbor and I used to have Barbie orgies and read all the smutty romance books, especially the parts about turgid members. I was a total pervert.

Honestly, these days I'm so frightened of the rabbit hole of porn. I'm all for learning about sex, and probably have embarrassed my kids talking about it. I want my kids to feel comfortable talking about it and not demonize it, but what's available online isn't real. And I've heard of too many people where porn skews their natural sexuality, where they have to go into darker and more perverse images in order to be titillated.

If I were your sister I would take away electronics completely. I'm sure her daughter doesn't need counseling, but a frank talk about what's normal and how what's represented online isn't close to real life.

I, too, am confused about the tank top situation.

[petesgirl]

Am I the only one who was reading smutty historical romance novels in middle school?

I'm reading through all these posts and thinking 'am I the only one who never had the desire to seek out sexual images in my teens?' I think I missed that stage of normal curiosity! And I can tell you it wasn't because my parents gave me plenty of info, because they didn't.

Myfoursons, how did you even know about that stuff in 4th grade? ( you don't really have to answer, but I am sincerely curious about how/where children learn about sexuality).

[JBaxter]

I started in 9th grade a good friend of mine had a huge box of her moms and we circulated them around

Am I the only one who was reading smutty historical romance novels in middle school?

[sariana]

Am I the only one who was reading smutty historical romance novels in middle school?

Setting aside visual smut for the moment, have you read any modern erotica on the internet lately? I've never read a smutty historical novel, but I'm guessing it's child's play compared to some of what is out there today.

I generally do not favor censoring what my kids read, but knowing how reading erotica can "normalize" certain behaviors, your niece needs strong guidance about what is appropriate and safe if she is being exposed to such writing.

Looking at pictures doesn't do much for me, personally, but reading good erotica is a whole different ball game IME. I would not want a teenager to be exposed to some of what I have read (sometimes by accident). Since so much of it today is fanfiction, it's really easy to stumble upon it without realizing where it's going.

[JBaxter]

Setting aside visual smut for the moment, have you read any modern erotica on the internet lately? I've never read a smutty historical novel, but I'm guessing it's child's play compared to some of what is out there today.

I generally do not favor censoring what my kids read, but knowing how reading erotica can "normalize" certain behaviors, your niece needs strong guidance about what is appropriate and safe if she is being exposed to such writing.

Looking at pictures doesn't do much for me, personally, but reading good erotica is a whole different ball game IME. I would not want a teenager to be exposed to some of what I have read (sometimes by accident). Since so much of it today is fanfiction, it's really easy to stumble upon it without realizing where it's going.

Smutty Historicals Oh my oh my... My first was Fires of winter by Johanna Lindsey written in 1980.

[*myfoursons]

I'm reading through all these posts and thinking 'am I the only one who never had the desire to seek out sexual images in my teens?' I think I missed that stage of normal curiosity! And I can tell you it wasn't because my parents gave me plenty of info, because they didn't.

Myfoursons, how did you even know about that stuff in 4th grade? ( you don't really have to answer, but I am sincerely curious about how/where children learn about sexuality).

My sister was 4 years older and read all those bodice rippers. I read them, too. My parents weren't ones to talk about sex, so it definitely wasn't from them. I look at my kids now, and I'm not oblivious, but they're exhibiting no curiosity about sex besides the whole "penises are hilarious" stuff. Guess they didn't inherit my early sexual curiosity.

[*myfoursons]

Smutty Historicals Oh my oh my... My first was Fires of winter by Johanna Lindsey written in 1980.

One of my favorites was Fire and Ice or something like that with pirates.

[KpbS]

It is a huge problem that is contributing to the objectification of women and girls in our society. PP is completely correct when she mentions the link to human trafficking and sex trade. So very many girls and young women go missing every year. They are just gone, gone.

I would talk to her not only about online images, but about selfies, nudes, sexting, etc. I would make her family standards and expectations extremely clear. Also speak to her about how images remain out there forever. They do not disappear.

I too would completely shut down her internet access.

[KpbS]

OK, this is actually something really, really important to me, so I'm jumping on a soapbox here and I'm sorry if I'm too passionate.

Also disclaimer: I'm Christian and some people will discount my opinions because of that. HOWEVER, ALL resources that I will point to are SECULAR and not faith-based in any way. Please don't disregard me as "morality police." I come at this from a psycho-social perspective, not a religious one.

First, a lot of responses are framed within the posters' experience as a child. This isn't useful in today's society. The availability and content of pornography in today's society is completely apart from what was available when we were young, even if you're a millennial like me who had access to the internet in your adolescent years. It's apples to oranges and is a huge part of the problem with the way parents today approach this topic with their kids (IMO.)

I highly suggest listening to this TED talk as a starting point.
http://fightthenewdrug.org/video-tedx-talk-the-great-porn-experiment/

Next, your sister needs to get control of the tech in her house. Many parents feel overwhelmed by this task and simply just hope for the best. This almost always leads to where your niece is right now. What's done is done, but moving forward, some changes can be made to limit access in the home to unacceptable content. Here's a resource to get started:
http://www.nclnet.org/parental_controls_managing_children_s_wireless_usa ge

Lastly, I highly suggest EVERYONE check out this website:
http://fightthenewdrug.org/

The porn industry these days is inextricably linked to human sex trafficking. If for no other reason than that, I think it's unreasonable to excuse adolescent porn usage as "normal curiosity" in this day and age. Do you really want your kids and your household to be part of the problem of human trafficking? If your family is OK with certain kinds of pornography being used by your children, then you should set that as your limit, but not all porn is created equal (it never was, but nowadays some of the more abhorrent porn practices are readily accessible in the home) and some should be eliminated from your homes completely, even if you accept porn usage as a normal part of life/development.

I could go on and on about this, but my action items in your sister's shoes would be like this:
1. Limit the child's access to electronics for the foreseeable future in order to eliminate bad habits and establish good ones.
2. Restrict access to pornography in the home through filters and other techniques.
3. TALK, TALK, TALK to your kid
4. READ, READ, READ the research and information out there about porn and today's kids.

Yes to this.

[hwin708]

OK, this is actually something really, really important to me, so I'm jumping on a soapbox here and I'm sorry if I'm too passionate.

Also disclaimer: I'm Christian and some people will discount my opinions because of that. HOWEVER, ALL resources that I will point to are SECULAR and not faith-based in any way. Please don't disregard me as "morality police." I come at this from a psycho-social perspective, not a religious one.

First, a lot of responses are framed within the posters' experience as a child. This isn't useful in today's society. The availability and content of pornography in today's society is completely apart from what was available when we were young, even if you're a millennial like me who had access to the internet in your adolescent years. It's apples to oranges and is a huge part of the problem with the way parents today approach this topic with their kids (IMO.)

I highly suggest listening to this TED talk as a starting point.
http://fightthenewdrug.org/video-tedx-talk-the-great-porn-experiment/


I actually don't think the previous posters were dismissing the severity of porn by discussing their youthful viewing. Everyone was simply making the point that she is at a normal age for such curiosity, and it is not, as the OP questioned, something for which she would need psychological help. The consensus was mainly that the internet usage needed to be restricted, and the mom needed to have a more open dialogue about the girl's curiosity.

Regarding your link to the TED talk - I just watched it. Is this man affiliated with a religious organization? I ask mainly because it was definitely filled with the pseudo-science kind of talk you hear from religious groups when trying to teach kids about the "dangers" of sex and other undesirable behavior. I mean, he literally says that giving up porn turned these men into "chick magnets," and cure them of a variety of other problems, such as ADHD which was preventing them from graduating college. I don't know how anyone could watch that and think "oh yeah, that definitely seems scientifically sound."
I googled after watching it, and one of the first articles (http://www.patheos.com/blogs/mormontherapist/2016/09/a-critique-on-the-great-porn-experiment.html) I saw does a pretty thorough job of tearing this talk apart, mainly by pointing out that the majority of his claims have no scientific basis, and the few claims that he actually did cite a study for, he did so out of context and incorrectly.

Personally, I am highly opposed to pornography for the other reason brought up in this thread - the impact it has on women and the way men view women. But that particular link, all about porn causing erectile dysfunction in young men despite there being no evidence to support it, would not be on my list of concerns.

[California]

It sounds like it started with normal curiosity. Unfortunately, the easy access to porn takes that "normal" and throws it out the window. This is not what we had access to as kids. It's highly addictive- and teens, who are already in the midst of amazing changes, are especially sensitive to porn. So I wouldn't dismiss talking to a therapist. Your sister could wait to see how your niece responds, and seek out help if needed.

My approach with my own kids, and the kids I work with, is to be informative. Give them good info. Help them understand why this isn't healthy for them. Realize they are going to make their own decisions. Your sister can control everything at home. And your niece may still see porn on a friend's phone at school or at a party. As she gets older she will most likely see music videos and tv shows that are not porn, and are still fairly sexually explicit. As PP's mentioned, your sister may want to talk to your DN about how these images are fake and do not portray real relationships. Let her know if she's curious that her mom can help her get accurate information. They can have ongoing conversations, and your sister can provide lots of books that DN can read on her own. They could set up a private mother/daughter journal if DN would prefer to write down her questions instead of having to say them out loud. I would shower your DN with love and let her know that thanks to the internet this is an issue that many, many families are dealing with.

Here are some of the potential red flags for your sister to look out for (keep in mind I'm not a therapist, so this is not by any means a complete list. I work with this age group and these are red flags I look out for):
- Are any of the friends who are suggesting the niece do these search engines older than her, not affiliated with her school, or strangers she has become friends with on the internet? Exposing children to porn is one of the grooming tactics used by pedophiles. If she has been in contact with an older friend or a stranger via the internet who has suggested search words to her, or encouraged the selfies, at that point personally I would consult with a therapist. I'd want help approaching the subject with DC, and expert advice on what safeguards need to be in place to protect DC.
- Does your niece continue to sneak porn? If she's having trouble stopping on her own, then it's time to get extra support for her.
- Weight loss, inability to sleep, too much sleep, disinterest in usual activities, isolation from friends, change in grades, negative self talk, cutting - If any of these persist I'd look for expert help. Obviously your sister is going to have to be extra vigilant for a while anyhow, these are things to be looking for while also monitoring any internet use.


One other thing that comes to mind: A friend of mine has a great visual she uses that your sister might find helpful. She gets tape, and she has the student stand at one side of a table. She has them put spots out on the table, and the spots stand for different activities. Then she has students run the tape back and forth between themselves and the spots so they can see how the tape builds up. She then explains that when they use the internet all the time (she's not talking about porn, but you could still use the same visual!) that it builds up those brain patterns. It creates a "highway" that the brain really wants to use. This is simplistic but it really helps teens (and parents) understand what can happen with repeated exposure. The good news is once they stop using that highway it will start to fade away.

[HannaAddict]

The internet has just made it totally easy to access and cruder more awful stuff a click away. Combined with totally normal curiosity for any kid at that age, this is normal. My friend's dad had a stash of Penthouse and worse and they had crude stories in that we didn't fully understand. A totally upstanding family I babysat for had x rated videos that were in with the regular videos (!!!! ) and first time I saw a penis and a lot more. I didn't do anything myself though and was not forever scarred. Only a little scarred. The internet just brings it anywhere and so insanely easy that it is disheartening as a parent. They should talk and also about how those images aren't real life and how to value yourself. But normal.


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[TwinFoxes]

I actually don't think the previous posters were dismissing the severity of porn by discussing their youthful viewing. Everyone was simply making the point that she is at a normal age for such curiosity, and it is not, as the OP questioned, something for which she would need psychological help. The consensus was mainly that the internet usage needed to be restricted, and the mom needed to have a more open dialogue about the girl's curiosity.


Thank you. I was one of the people who mentioned my experiences, but I thought I made it clear that porn on the internet today is different and it's easy to go down a bad rabbit hole. I also said the mom needed to get a grip on her DD's device usage.

[mommy111]

Thank you so much for all your responses. DS was somewhat scared that limiting device use would just encourage her to seek this same material other less safe places. But clearly something needs to be done and that is probably controlling access in addition to conversations/conversations/conersations. Hopefully it goes OK!!