Need plumbing help - Qs about shower remodel!

[twowhat?]

We are embarking on a bathroom remodel, including a whole shower remodel (everything needs to be replaced). We are buying all materials ourselves to save a little money. But I am so confused about shower systems. Valves, cartridges, valve bodies, diverters, what does it all mean and what do I need to buy? Here's what we want for the shower (and these wants are based on the fact that both kids and grandparents use our shower). Shower only, no tub:


A fixed shower head that pivots. Looking at one of Delta's H20Kinetic models.
A handheld shower head on a flexible hose.
A slide bar (ADA compliant - doubles as grab bar that can withstand at least 250 lb pull force), to be installed vertically into studs, with a mount for the handheld, so the kids can adjust height of handheld.
Something to divert water to the shower head only, handheld only, or both (I am so confused whether the diverter needs to be part of the behind-the-wall plumbing or if it can be external)
Something that allows the water temp to be controlled separately from the water volume. 2 handles on one thingy, so that you can set the water temp and then not worry about it. Like this: https://images-na.ssl-images-amazon.com/images/I/611cc1uoN9L._SL1000_.jpg Bonus if this whatever-it's-called also keeps the water temp consistent (for example, if someone flushes the toilet)


I'm just not familiar with all the plumbing terminology. Given the above setup, what do I need in terms of plumbing supplies? The external pieces (shower head, handheld, grab bar, etc) are easy because I can see those things. But I am very confused about the plumbing behind the wall. Do I need a valve body? Rough in? Trim kit? Cartridge? Diverter? All of the above? (and I don't even know what those things all mean, exactly).

Our current shower has 2 handles (one hot, one cold - both are dreaded twist valves) and that's it. So I'm assuming the whole valve system needs to be replaced if I want something long-lasting. Since the entire shower is going to be demo-ed, we can replace with whatever we want pretty much. I just want to be careful to keep it as simple as possible so that any repairs or replacements can be easily made without having to break through the tile again. That's where I was thinking that the diverter could be external? That way the behind-the-wall components could be kept as simple as possible. But like I said I'm super confused so I'm not sure.

I know there are some plumbing-knowledgeable BBB members on here - help!

[vonfirmath]

I don't know all of that. But I suspect you will need rough in AND a trim kit. Our (Commercial) plumbing guys go out and do rough in on their work. Then come back and do trim.

HOWEVER -- do you have the people who will be doing the work hired yet? You might want to do that before buying too much equipment. Plumbers get used to working with certain items. It could conceiveably take LONGER if they have to figure out how the bits and bobs you hand them work together before they start the job. (or in the middle of the job) If you hire a plumber, you could get them to give you a list of what you need to purchase if you do not trust them to use their resources to get you a better price than you can get for yourself.

[bigsis]

I'm re-doing my bathroom too and I'm doing it all as cheaply as I possibly can. I only bought the shower and the bathtub. All the pipes and valves inside were provided by the plumber; I wouldn't know what to get. When I asked the plumber about what brand is best for the shower, he said to stick to Moen because it doesn't have a ton of parts that take up too much time and the parts are easy to replace in the future.

[pharmjenn]

We redid our shower a couple years ago, and went to a local plumbing supply with a showroom. Picked out what we want and the clerk knew which inside pieces needed to be ordered to get the whole "package' of a working shower. We paid for the parts and the contractor/plumber did the install. We did not pay more by using a shop with a showroom than what we would have paid at Lowes etc, or Build.com, but it did ensure we got all those bits I wouldn't know were needed.

[craftysierra]

I can't open your link, but a simple easy to repair answer to your valve is Moen Moentrol NOT Positemp. Positemp does not have separate temperature and volume, it is a cycling valve (handle starts in cold and as your turn you increase the temperature as well as the volume) and also more expensive to repair (the whole cartridge is the water shut off and the temperature control). Moentrol is a valve you pull for volume and twist for temperature but is a single handle. The temperature controlling spool is a separate piece to repair in the valve (and rare to fail) and the cartridge you replace if it leaks is the same one Moen has used forever. (easy repair part to find) These are both pressure balancing type valves that control the temperature swing if a toilet is flushed or water used else ware. The other type of valve that is out there is thermostatic and they are more complex, but control the temperature swing much more precisely.

[mmsmom]

I highly recommend Faucet.com. Their website will tell you what other parts you need for each piece. They also have great customer service so you can call or chat to make sure you are getting the right thing. When we did our bathroom I picked everything out then sent links to contractor so he could make sure everything would work before I bought it.

[Dream]

I can't open your link, but a simple easy to repair answer to your valve is Moen Moentrol NOT Positemp. Positemp does not have separate temperature and volume, it is a cycling valve (handle starts in cold and as your turn you increase the temperature as well as the volume) and also more expensive to repair (the whole cartridge is the water shut off and the temperature control). Moentrol is a valve you pull for volume and twist for temperature but is a single handle. The temperature controlling spool is a separate piece to repair in the valve (and rare to fail) and the cartridge you replace if it leaks is the same one Moen has used forever. (easy repair part to find) These are both pressure balancing type valves that control the temperature swing if a toilet is flushed or water used else ware. The other type of valve that is out there is thermostatic and they are more complex, but control the temperature swing much more precisely.

Thank you for posting this. We're building a house so I've been looking into plumbing for 3 bathrooms. I wanted to get thermostatic valves because I didn't want temp. dips but our plumber is requiring more $$ to install thermostatic valves so DH is against it. But from what you posted it seems like Moentrol valves will get us both. Our old bathroom had one leaver to control both temp and pressure, which means I can't increase only water temp without affecting the water pressure and I hate it.

[craftysierra]

Thank you for posting this. We're building a house so I've been looking into plumbing for 3 bathrooms. I wanted to get thermostatic valves because I didn't want temp. dips but our plumber is requiring more $$ to install thermostatic valves so DH is against it. But from what you posted it seems like Moentrol valves will get us both. Our old bathroom had one leaver to control both temp and pressure, which means I can't increase only water temp without affecting the water pressure and I hate it.


I have not sold plumbing in 11 years or so but the number that is coming to mind is the Moentrol is a three degree swing -+1.5 degrees and the thermostatic is half that? But it is fuzzy.

I would say from the perspective of my area and father being a repair plumber avoid Delta in the wall, they have historically changed little things frequently and make repair more complex. Of course the house I currently live in has Delta :)


Sierra

[twowhat?]

I can't open your link, but a simple easy to repair answer to your valve is Moen Moentrol NOT Positemp. Positemp does not have separate temperature and volume, it is a cycling valve (handle starts in cold and as your turn you increase the temperature as well as the volume) and also more expensive to repair (the whole cartridge is the water shut off and the temperature control). Moentrol is a valve you pull for volume and twist for temperature but is a single handle. The temperature controlling spool is a separate piece to repair in the valve (and rare to fail) and the cartridge you replace if it leaks is the same one Moen has used forever. (easy repair part to find) These are both pressure balancing type valves that control the temperature swing if a toilet is flushed or water used else ware. The other type of valve that is out there is thermostatic and they are more complex, but control the temperature swing much more precisely.

Thanks for this - I looked into it and my understanding is that the Moentrol is still a pressure balancing valve (not a true thermostatic valve), they've just cleverly integrated volume control into it. I personally can't stand the "pull to turn water on, push to turn it off" volume control because I feel like I can never get it exactly where I want it...I either pull it out too far or push it in too far. I'd prefer the dual lever system (basically 2 levers stacked together, like a clock - turn one to set the temp, turn the other to set the volume - like this: https://www.amazon.com/Delta-T17T038-Lahara-Tempassure-Chrome/dp/B001AHZRR8/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1489347792&sr=8-1&keywords=delta+thermostatic)

But one of the PPs recommendation to stay away from Delta worries me a little. I can't seem to find anything like this that's comparable that isn't Delta!!

[Dream]

Are you buying your plumbing from Amazon? In the Houzz site they usually advice not to buy plumbing items from big box stores like home depot. The same item from a hardware store is apparently better quality. But I've been wondering about Amazon or other online retailer since no one knows where its coming from.

[twowhat?]

Are you buying your plumbing from Amazon? In the Houzz site they usually advice not to buy plumbing items from big box stores like home depot. The same item from a hardware store is apparently better quality. But I've been wondering about Amazon or other online retailer since no one knows where its coming from.

I've purchased from FaucetsDirect.com in the past with success, and also from Amazon Warehouse Deals with success (and Amazon has great customer service and sent me a brand new faucet when my Warehouse Deals one came missing a part). You're right that you don't know where it's coming from so there's some risk there...all of the things I purchased from Amazon have come in what appears to be the original box. I got an amazing deal on a kitchen faucet for something like $96 and it's solid brass, gorgeous, and came in a super fancy manufacturer's box.

[legaleagle]

Are you buying your plumbing from Amazon? In the Houzz site they usually advice not to buy plumbing items from big box stores like home depot. The same item from a hardware store is apparently better quality. But I've been wondering about Amazon or other online retailer since no one knows where its coming from.

I think that may mean that the same brand has a lesser quality line that they sell at big box stores. Everything I've bought online from fancier brands (eg kohler) has been very good quality (and priced to match - even online discounts on nicer brands are pricey faucets). My most recent purchase was kohler kitchen faucet from amazon warehouse.