13 year old DD really acting out, looking for suggestions...

[jerseygirl07067]

I've posted about issues before regarding my 13 y/o DD and really need some suggestions. I'm at my wits end and am thinking of pursuing counseling. A bit of background, my DD has a good group of friends, and doesn't seem to have issues in that area(yet), gets straight A's and is very involved in sports. Though lately her grades have slipped a bit and she's been having an attitude during her soccer games and track, and being overall very pessimistic. At home, she treats DH and I HORRIBLY. She has an awful attitude and has for many years now. When she was a small child she once said she wished she could put fire on me. She seems to have no remorse for the way she treats us when we talk to her about it, and doesn't seem to "get it" regarding the right way to talk to people. She never takes any responsibility and it is pulling teeth to get her to apologize for the nasty behavior. If I'm in her way, she will just push herself by me, not say excuse me, not use manners of any kind, ignore me until I repeat myself several times, etc. It's just awful. When I talk to her, her expression immediately goes flat or nasty, even just asking her simple questions. The concerning part is that when DH and I call her out on her behavior she shrugs her shoulders and really appears to not think she's doing anything wrong. She looks at us like we're nuts or completely twists the issue around and says it's our fault because we have rules which is why she behaves the way she does. WTH?

I have taken her phone away more times than I can count, and have limited activities when the behavior has been really bad. Behavior gets better for a while, sometimes she can actually be pleasant to be around, but then returns. What really concerns me is that a few months ago I got a call from one of her teachers that she was being disrespectful in class, and today I just got an e-mail from another teacher about the same thing. DD was warned after the first call that it better not happen again or there will be serious consequences. So here we are, happened again and I am beyond livid. So tonight we will have to talk about this. Ugh....

Any words of advice? I feel like my daughter is so full of hatred toward everyone but her friends. Luckily they are good kids and have a positive influence on her, but I could totally see her as one of those kids who runs away from home if this progresses, because she doesn't believe in rules, they're all stupid, blah blah. . She's a good kid overall and I don't want to sound overly critical but I am over the disrespect, it's awful....

Any words of advice?

[SnuggleBuggles]

I think it's time to bring in the pros. It sounds like some family counseling plus some one on one stuff for her would really be valuable.


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[zukeypur]

It sounds like you're doing everything right. Maybe she does need to talk to someone? Or maybe volunteer somewhere to focus her negative energy into positive? I really have no advice. My oldest DD is difficult as well, and we are SO excited for her graduation next month.

[pinkmomagain]

I think it's time to bring in the pros. It sounds like some family counseling plus some one on one stuff for her would really be valuable.


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Agree with this 1000%

[mmsmom]

I am so sorry. If it helps I was the same way at 13 and I turned out ok. I honestly don't know what I was looking for from my parents at that time or if they could have done anything differently. It is common teen behavior- which doesn't mean it is right or ok. I was only cruel to my parents though- I never wanted my teachers (school, church, dance) to think bad of me or any other adults like my friend's parents.

I don't have teens yet but I do think counseling could certainly help. My parents and I do now laugh about those days. Sending you strength!

[lizzywednesday]

I needed counseling most when I acted like that, though I can't say I ever deliberately pushed my parents or showed outright disrespect to teachers (I was more subtle.) It helped me grow into a relatively well-adjusted human adult.

I also got really involved with my church's youth group and took it to heart that I was supposed to be a role model for other kids, including my siblings. (It didn't always work out, because teenagers are jerks, but I took it seriously.)

Counseling - individual and family - especially to work on communication strategies would probably be most helpful right now.

[BunnyBee]

I think it's time to bring in the pros. It sounds like some family counseling plus some one on one stuff for her would really be valuable.


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Yes, and hurry. And make sure they're experts in adolescents and not just some crackpot "counselor" with no credentials. I wouldn't discount the possibility that she will soon begin (or has already begun) to experiment with drugs and risky sexual behavior. It's not the time to sit and wait.

[TwinFoxes]

Yes, and hurry. And make sure they're experts in adolescents and not just some crackpot "counselor" with no credentials. I wouldn't discount the possibility that she will soon begin (or has already begun) to experiment with drugs and risky sexual behavior. It's not the time to sit and wait.

Yes to all of this. It's hard to hear, but 13 does seem to be the age that some kids who are teetering on the edge actually topple.

[pinkmomagain]

And make sure they're experts in adolescents and not just some crackpot "counselor" with no credentials.
Just curious, what is a crackpot "counselor?" Have you encountered people who claim to help adolescents and they are not licensed to provide psychotherapy by the state?

[hbridge]

Hi,

Definitely pursue help. Start with your pediatrician; let him/her know what is going on and ask for resources. The pediatrician will be able to give you a starting point. Honestly, middle school is the worst time and we know MANY kids who teetered on the edge and a handful who have toppled (including my own, who we thankfully caught and is slowly improving).

As for counselors/therapists, get referrals, but be prepared for it to take quite a while for your child to connect. We went through five before DC would even stay in the room, then it took another year for DC to start to open up. Now, the counselor is the only provider that DC trusts.

Watch for Self-Injurious and other dangerous behaviors. For our DC, self-injury started early (second grade) so we know what to watch for. However, kids are good at hiding things, so I am constantly vigilant.

You need resources for you and for her. Start with the pediatrician, but also talk to the school counselor. Get yourself a counselor/therapist so you have someone to bounce ideas off of and to help you through.

For the here and now, try to open lines of communication; use incentives if necessary. Take her out to dinner at her favorite restaurant and just chat about whatever, nothing heavy... Find out what she likes and what she doesn't; again, keep it light... vegetables, ice cream flavors, music... Withhold judgement and just talk... She needs to know that you are there for her and respect who she is... Maybe even relax the house "rules" somewhat. It is so hard to shower love on a resistant child, but she definitely needs to feel special and valued... You may already be doing all of this, just keep it up...

Also, try to find out what is going on BEFORE punishing. If there is more to the story, punishment might make it worse. However, that all depends on the situation. Having a high anxiety child has definitely changed my take on parenting, so take what I say for what it is :)

Sending hugs...

[TwinFoxes]

Just curious, what is a crackpot "counselor?" Have you encountered people who claim to help adolescents and they are not licensed to provide psychotherapy by the state?

OMG, yes. I don't have a teen, but it seems like there are tons of church "counselors" or community center "counselors" who have no degree or really any qualifications. I have a very good friend who's a school psychologist and a LCSW and she wants to bang her head against a wall when she has to undo the damage these people have done. Not to mention, many drug and alcohol "counselors" don't have to be licensed by anyone. (sorry to go OT, op).

[maestramommy]

I would see a professional counselor. We've seen one twice for DD2 because her behavior goes through cycles where she is really horrible to her sisters, talks back, nothing is ever her fault. But she's great to her friends, and she knows the difference. She's actually said, "Well I don't care about my sisters, I care about my friends." We went to the counselor just recently because she was on a downhill and we were at our wits end. The counselor had a meeting with her, with us in the room, then for about 15 minutes without us, then about 15 minutes with us without her. This is common I think because we saw a different one when she was 4. All counselors will talk with the kids to make sure they haven't experienced some kind of trauma. Once that is established they try to get a sense of what kind of personality the kid has.

In our case DD2 is actually very good at school. No social or behavioral issues. So we know it's just at home and with her sisters. The counselor was very helpful with boundaries we could set, appropriate consequences, but just affirming that we are not crazy, this behavior is unacceptable, and let's just see what we can do to get her to behave first.

Big hugs. DD2 was a really easy baby and toddler, I don't know why she went off the rails, but she is very strong willed, with a very narrow way of looking at things. This is just the way she is. We may end up seeing the counselor again when she turns into a teenager. She's almost 10 now.

ETA: we found our counselor by asking the school guidance counselor for a rec. He's a specialist in family therapy, adolescent issues.

[westwoodmom04]

My dd is 12. A lot of this behavior sounds normal for this age, although I can see why you want to get a handle on the disrespectful behavior. My dd goes to an all girls school and the head of the middle school recommended this book -Untangled: Guiding Teenage Girls Through the Seven Transitions to Adulthood.https://www.amazon.com/Untangled-Guiding-Teenage-Transitions-Adulthood/dp/0553393073/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&qid=1492822776&sr=8-1&keywords=Untangled. I thought it was a good and helpful read. One of the first phases of teenhood she discusses is separation from parents. She explains how this is a necessary transition to adulthood and how to best navigate it.

[jerseygirl07067]

Thank you everyone. I have compiled a list of a few counselors (we have a community FB page and someone had posted back in Jan that they were looking for a good adolescent/teenage counselor, and there were some really good recommendations on there) and am also going to see if there is anyone in particular our pediatrician recommends. I am also going to do some one on one stuff with her, but it's hard. She doesn't open up much...there is a little bit here and there, but it is very inconsistent, so I just go with what's there at the moment and try not to press.

So here is my next question, which may warrant a spinoff thread, but how do you talk to your kids about going to counseling? How do I bring this up with her without further upsetting her or making her feel bad about having to go? This obviously will be a first for us, and I have never navigated this path before. I'd be more comfortable talking about the birds and the bees until eternity than having to have this conversation but it must be done.

[StantonHyde]

Well, here are a couple of points to cover:
1. You will ALL be going--not just her. It is so your family can get along better. That means mom and dad have to change too.
2. She isn't in trouble. This is to help everybody.
3. She just has to try it. If she hates the counselor after 6 sessions, you can look for a new one.
4. This is to support her and you. To find new ways to talk to each other. To try to figure out what's going on.

Again, phrase it as everybody's issue--not just hers. This isn't to "fix" her. It is to give everybody the tools to communicate better and get along better. Mom and Dad have to learn too. (hell, throw yourselves under a bus if you have to do so--just get her to go) Also--this isn't a question or a discussion. This is a " you will be going with us to see the counselor". End of story. She can gripe and moan but she's going. Just like you and DH are going.

[bigsis]

Well, here are a couple of points to cover:
1. You will ALL be going--not just her. It is so your family can get along better. That means mom and dad have to change too.
2. She isn't in trouble. This is to help everybody.
3. She just has to try it. If she hates the counselor after 6 sessions, you can look for a new one.
4. This is to support her and you. To find new ways to talk to each other. To try to figure out what's going on.

Again, phrase it as everybody's issue--not just hers. This isn't to "fix" her. It is to give everybody the tools to communicate better and get along better. Mom and Dad have to learn too. (hell, throw yourselves under a bus if you have to do so--just get her to go) Also--this isn't a question or a discussion. This is a " you will be going with us to see the counselor". End of story. She can gripe and moan but she's going. Just like you and DH are going.
Totally agree with this. I hope you get the help you need.

[jerseygirl07067]

Well, here are a couple of points to cover:
1. You will ALL be going--not just her. It is so your family can get along better. That means mom and dad have to change too.
2. She isn't in trouble. This is to help everybody.
3. She just has to try it. If she hates the counselor after 6 sessions, you can look for a new one.
4. This is to support her and you. To find new ways to talk to each other. To try to figure out what's going on.

Again, phrase it as everybody's issue--not just hers. This isn't to "fix" her. It is to give everybody the tools to communicate better and get along better. Mom and Dad have to learn too. (hell, throw yourselves under a bus if you have to do so--just get her to go) Also--this isn't a question or a discussion. This is a " you will be going with us to see the counselor". End of story. She can gripe and moan but she's going. Just like you and DH are going.

It was my intention all along for DH and I to go as well. Obviously we're all in this together :)

[California]

Sounds like you are on the right path to finding a good counselor. I think we sometimes underestimate how much pressure kids can feel. Your DD is getting good grades, participating in track and soccer, keeping up a social life- this is a a lot to handle. She may feel like a walking pressure cooker and you, loving mom that you are, are her safe spot to let off a little steam. Which hurts!!! The counselor can help her manage that better.

If your DDs been doing this for a couple of years, you and your DH may appreciate finding a counselor for yourselves. It doesn't sound like you are getting many loving moments with your DD. More of a regular stream of little emotional hits. It's very possible DD's counselor will want you all to do some relationship re-building activities. And a part of you may hold back on that, because you've been rebuffed so many times by your DD. That's a perfectly normal response to being hurt repeatedly by someone. If you feel some negative feelings towards DD, don't beat yourself up about it- just talk it out with someone. Then you'll be in a better place to reconnect with your girl.

[cilantromapuche]

I was like that as a kid and the best thing that happened to me was going to boarding school. I know it isn't the conventional thing but I thrived. My DD (10) is a lot like how I was and I keep on telling her to think about boarding school. My problem was that I was (am still) very independent and too smart for my britches.
That being said, my parents were not very parental so I don't know how that would factor in. I have recommended the book Untangled before and if you haven't read it, go get it right now.

And yes, I did run away several times and the police brought me back. I would also offer the advice of giving your daughter some freedom. I backpacked around central america at 18, traveled alone to and from school (in another country) and while it isn't something that is culturally acceptable here it helped me appreciate my parents.

[StantonHyde]

It was my intention all along for DH and I to go as well. Obviously we're all in this together :)

Yes, but your DD needs to know this.

[bisous]

Lots of good thoughts above. I just wanted to say that I was really brutally mean to my parents when I was about your DDs age and I was a MODEL citizen at school and with my friends. I was just emotional and kind of unhappy. Thinking about it now it makes me just cringe inside. I will say that I was not involved in anything dangerous or illegal. I was just truly miserable and took it out most on the people that loved me. Counseling made a huge difference. I don't even know exactly what my counselor did for me other than provide a listening ear where I could process my thoughts and not lash out at my family. Good luck, OP!