Updated:Question for anyone in an academic career- should I ask to be first author?

[daisyd]

I recently co-wrote a book chapter. My colleague was invited to edit the book and write some of it's chapters. She asked me to collaborate with her on this particular chapter. She had said at the outset that she would be first author as she was going for an academic promotion and needed this on her CV. She probably did 40 at the most 50% of the creative writing. I did the rest including most of the legwork (creating figures, obtaining permission to use copyrighted material).

She suggested that we do a concise version of this chapter for an academic journal to improve on her promotion chances. Can I ask to be first author? Or is she automatically the first author because we're basing it off the original where she is the lead author?

For background, my colleague is my age and in a more senior teaching post but I have more publications/writing experience. In the rest of my papers, the senior author providing direction has been the lead author while I did most of the actual work. I typically don't advocate for myself but I don't want to be unreasonable either. I respect this colleague and she could be a useful career resource so I don't want to seem out of line.

I'm posting here because my professional world is very small and everybody knows everybody. I'd really appreciate your perspective. Thanks!

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So, I asked and my co-author got back with a request to be first author as she needed it for a promotion but she did acknowledge that I deserved to be the first author. She said she would take a secondary role in future collaborations. It felt good to get that validation and I'm glad I asked. I tend to get into "doormat" mode and not speak up for myself and then of course I get mad at myself in the end. I'm trying to make changes to that style.

[gymnbomb]

I think this one varies somewhat by field and culture of the person/group you are working with. In my field in the scenario you described at the end, the person who did most of the leg work would be the first author and the "senior author" who started/guided the process would be the last author. Part of this is to help young academics careers, it it is also just the culture of my field where it is understood that often times the last author is in fact the senior author. If she initiated it for purposes of helping get herself promoted I would probably go with whatever you agreed with at the beginning. Though I don't think it would always necessarily be the case that she should be first author on the paper just because she was first author on the chapter.


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[gymnbomb]

I forgot to say that yes, regardless of what you decide with this one, I do think advocating for yourself in terms of authorship placement early on in the process is important and not something you should feel guilty for doing :)


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[daisyd]

Thanks a bunch for posting. This is so helpful!

[cvanbrunt]

My initial read of this without knowing your field or how the lab works, she strikes me as the legitimate first author. So much politics in these issues!

[SnuggleBuggles]

My initial read of this without knowing your field or how the lab works, she strikes me as the legitimate first author. So much politics in these issues!

Me too


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[westwoodmom04]

My dh is in academic medicine. He always puts the junior person who did the legwork first and himself last, or in the middle if he played a smaller role. He also typically allows them to present.

[squimp]

It really depends. Since she was the first author of the first paper, and this is very much based on the first paper, I would expect that she would be first author on the second paper.

I am in a research environment and have been a journal editor. In my experience it is best to decide authorship up front and stick to that plan. With students and post-docs I try to outline my expectations early. My expectation is that the person who takes the lead on the writing and editing is the first author. Just getting the data together is not justification for being first author in my view. But there is still variation within that. My organization has a formal policy on what constitutes authorship, and it's nice to have that. Many professional societies have authorship guides as well.
I have found that it is even more important to be clear up front when interacting with peers and more senior folks. I agree that it's important for you to stand up for yourself in future instances.

[twowhat?]

It really depends. Since she was the first author of the first paper, and this is very much based on the first paper, I would expect that she would be first author on the second paper.

I am in a research environment and have been a journal editor. In my experience it is best to decide authorship up front and stick to that plan. With students and post-docs I try to outline my expectations early. My expectation is that the person who takes the lead on the writing and editing is the first author. Just getting the data together is not justification for being first author in my view. But there is still variation within that. My organization has a formal policy on what constitutes authorship, and it's nice to have that. Many professional societies have authorship guides as well.
I have found that it is even more important to be clear up front when interacting with peers and more senior folks. I agree that it's important for you to stand up for yourself in future instances.

This is how I feel but it does get tricky when the work is split 50/50 which is what it sounds like in your case. I would ask to be co-lead author, but that she can be listed first. In my field, an asterisk is added to the first 2 authors' names with a footnote that both authors contributed equally to the work in the publication. That way, you can still list it on your CV and have it count as a "first author publication" but for her, her name will be listed first which is really what she wants. I have multiple publications where I'm co-lead author just because of the nature of the work (collaborative). And on my CV I absolutely bold my name and add that asterisk!

[daisyd]

Thanks everyone for weighing in. I was on the fence about this and it was good to hear your thoughts.
I hadn't heard of co-lead author before, so I definitely learned something in this discussion.
The chapter we co-wrote was a review rather than original research. I felt I ended up doing a lot of the creative writing, the leg work and the editing. I had agreed at the outset though that she'd be first author so I didn't say anything though I felt I was being asked to do more than I signed up for.
I've asked whether she'd be okay with my being first author on this one to practice standing up for myself but I suspect that the answer is going to be no. I'll be okay with that and look on this as an opportunity to write and publish even if the answer is no.

Thanks again!

[jent]

So glad you got useful advice! Are any of you by any chance on the Academic Research Moms group on Facebook? People post questions like this all the time there and the group is really helpful. I think you can just search for the group and request to be added.

[daisyd]

Thanks for posting Jen. I hadn't heard about this group. Will check it out.

[daisyd]

Updated in OP.

[niccig]

If she wants to be first author on the version for the journal, then she needs to put more work into it. She can't ride on your work.


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[twowhat?]

I just read your update and I'm a little more than miffed for you that you asked and she gave you THAT answer??? "You're right, you did more of the work so you deserve to be first author. But I need a first author publication so I can get a promotion. So screw you. But you can be first author next time! Who knows if there will be a next time, but it's not my problem."

Ugh. Why couldn't she just have said "I'm sorry, but as we discussed before, the plan was for me to be first author."??

But I agree there's not much you can do now, especially since you did have a prior agreement that she'd be first author.

[daisyd]

Thanks for your input nicci and twowhat. I'm going to ask her to do more for the journal article.

When I went into this, I was happy to be writing. I know that I only got the invite to do the chapter because of her (she was co-editor). It was more in hindsight that I realized I was doing the bulk of the work. It was a sneaking suspicion initially and then a slight resentment, which is why I posted. It felt good to get an honest answer.

I struggle with just going with the flow and being more assertive in these situations. Sometimes when I stand up for myself I might come across as overly aggressive especially since I'm ordinarily mild mannered. Sigh.

[twowhat?]

Thanks for your input nicci and twowhat. I'm going to ask her to do more for the journal article.

When I went into this, I was happy to be writing. I know that I only got the invite to do the chapter because of her (she was co-editor). It was more in hindsight that I realized I was doing the bulk of the work. It was a sneaking suspicion initially and then a slight resentment, which is why I posted. It felt good to get an honest answer.

I struggle with just going with the flow and being more assertive in these situations. Sometimes when I stand up for myself I might come across as overly aggressive especially since I'm ordinarily mild mannered. Sigh.

As a fellow doormat, I totally get it and feel for you. I hate confrontation in any way and the fact that you did speak up (even if it was too late) is a HUGE step, so way to go!!! And hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20 :)

[mommy111]

Thanks for your input nicci and twowhat. I'm going to ask her to do more for the journal article.

When I went into this, I was happy to be writing. I know that I only got the invite to do the chapter because of her (she was co-editor). It was more in hindsight that I realized I was doing the bulk of the work. It was a sneaking suspicion initially and then a slight resentment, which is why I posted. It felt good to get an honest answer.

I struggle with just going with the flow and being more assertive in these situations. Sometimes when I stand up for myself I might come across as overly aggressive especially since I'm ordinarily mild mannered. Sigh.
I would let it go at this point. My experience with this is that these situations almost never end well and may sour future collaborations. I would mention all of this upfront in the future. Something along the lines of 'if I am doing the writing, I would like to be first author, would you be OK being senior author?'

[niccig]

Yeah, it is what it is now. I'd be wary about future collaboration with this person and make sure you get credit your work deserves.


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[daisyd]

Thanks everyone.