stomping/banging issue in teacher's classroom

[DualvansMommy]

UPDATE: I met with teacher last Thursday and this time I decided to utilize the use an interpreter as part of the cultural talk. She only had met me/DH once with an interpreter in tow and that was the night of BTS, so probably wasn't even on her radar how it really works. Hence thought it'd be useful to see an interpreter in action up close and personal, if you will.

It actually went really well. The teacher was approaching this whole issue with her teacher cap totally on, which meant reminders, behavioral chart, etc etc. I get it. So I explained to her very nicely pretty much what I've said here and in addition of what some of pp said too which was in line with my thinking. The teacher did admit and apologize that while she had met some deaf people in the past, myself and DH weren't her typical expectations of what she remembered from other deaf people in the past. That was the perfect opening for me to explain that there is a huge range of deaf people out in the community; some can't talk at all, some prefer to rely on writing back and forth, and others prefer to use an interpreter all the time. That also applied to the range of "hearing" we have; whether we use hearing aids, Cochlear implant, or nothing at all. Same thing with the grasp and command of English language in the sense for some deaf people it is NOT their first language and as such, their command isn't what a native English language user be like, some with decent grasp only because years of hard work at it, and the rest excellent use of English.

I ended this by saying DS1 is only in 1st grade/6 years old, so it's still early years for him in terms of fully comprehening being a KODA is like for the rest of his life. His first language is really ASL and thinks like a deaf person but can hear. It's bound to bring endless questions, some confusion, maybe some anxiety, even to embarrassment, and the last thing I want for him to feel more singled out as it is over something that he still needs to do at home to function. We agreed DS1 can give a short presentation to the class, if he wishes to explain why he stomps and/or bang and is far from being annoying or intentionally bothering his classmates. The teacher already removed those 2 warnings. Thanks to all of you who chimed in!

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This might get bit wordy or long, so bear with me. I got an email from DS1's teacher advising me that DS1 got his 2nd warning in classroom today. 1st and today's 2nd warning is over the same issue; DS1 tend to stomp his feet on the floor to get his classmate's attention nearby when it was his turn to do the sharing activity with said classmate and banged on his teacher's table to get her attention whenever he sits on the teacher's roundtable for the daily reading activity.

Teacher knows WHY he does it as we've explained to her prior beginning of school year that DS1 lives with deaf parents and the stomping/banging is one of several ways in gaining mom/dad attention. Teacher is ok with that as long it happens AT HOME. I just got off the phone with her earlier and she's kind of telling me that DS1 should have it down pat doing it at HOME only since it's been several months since September. We're actively trying with teacher's help telling DS1 that it is NOT ok to do that in his classroom or any of the public outings with us.

But I was bit turned off with her attitude that it should be still not be ongoing issue, DH is siding with the teacher and I'm siding with my own Deaf identity. DH's point is DS1 is not deaf and listening, following classmate cues in gaining teacher's attention which is by raising their hand or calling her by name is automatic for him.

Honestly, I wanted that 2nd warning removed cuz teacher DID acknowledge that it is something we're still continuing working with DS1 re: particular behavior and we always reinforce it frequently every time we go out in public as a family.

I finished the call by saying I/we'll discuss with DH/DS1 this evening. But beyond actively reminding and reinforcing which we already do. What can we really do beyond that though?? give a consequence? (which I felt the teacher wanted us to do) which I think is wrong as it is part of his life living with deaf parents.

[PZMommy]

At the start of your post I was going to side with the teacher until you mentioned you were deaf and that is how he has to get your attention at home. In that case, I’m on your side. Your DS is young and I’m sure the pounding is a habit for him. I think it will be hard for him to stop. I would just continue to work with him at home and remind him not to do it at school. I would not punish him. I think his teacher needs to be more sensitive as this falls under cultural differences.

[AngB]

Yep. This is a habit. Your kid is like...6?
Teacher needs to get over herself and patiently remind him not to do it. Don't be a teacher if you can't handle being patient with kids learning. I don't really even think he should be getting "warnings" over it.

I would call a meeting with the principal and decide whether the teacher is going to relax about it or if you need a new teacher assignment. But I would not have my kid getting in trouble for something like this when it's an adaptation he has lived most of his life doing.

[hillview]

Yep. This is a habit. Your kid is like...6?
Teacher needs to get over herself and patiently remind him not to do it. Don't be a teacher if you can't handle being patient with kids learning. I don't really even think he should be getting "warnings" over it.

I would call a meeting with the principal and decide whether the teacher is going to relax about it or if you need a new teacher assignment. But I would not have my kid getting in trouble for something like this when it's an adaptation he has lived most of his life doing.
Something like this. I would also if anything offer an incentive that if he doesn’t do it for a day he gets something (a sticker or something). He is young. It is something you are all working on. I’d get someone else from the school to advise the teacher on this.

[mackmama]

I'm with you and would request a meeting with the teacher and principal asap. The teacher needs to understand that your DS is doing something he has naturally adapted to and that will take time (and likely age) to change.

[trcy]

I'm with you and would request a meeting with the teacher and principal asap. The teacher needs to understand that your DS is doing something he has naturally adapted to and that will take time (and likely age) to change.

ITA! The teacher needs to be a lot more understanding!


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[KrisM]

So he does it at home, on purpose. And he's forgotten TWICE since September and did it at school? I think that is fantastic. A habit is usually pretty hard to break and he's done a great job of only forgetting 2 times in 4 months!

If it were daily, I'd side more with the teacher. But a mistake made twice in 4 months? Nope.

[AngB]

So he does it at home, on purpose. And he's forgotten TWICE since September and did it at school? I think that is fantastic. A habit is usually pretty hard to break and he's done a great job of only forgetting 2 times in 4 months!

If it were daily, I'd side more with the teacher. But a mistake made twice in 4 months? Nope.

I don't *think* she meant today was the only day it happened. I think it sounds like an ongoing thing they are working on but that he did it twice today and teacher called today as a result.

[carolinacool]

I guess that's my question. I understand he was written up for it today. Is it a daily thing? Does he ever raise his hand to get her attention or does he always hit her desk?

[DualvansMommy]

I guess that's my question. I understand he was written up for it today. Is it a daily thing? Does he ever raise his hand to get her attention or does he always hit her desk?

At the very beginning, like from 1st day of school to November, it was more of 2-3x a week but he also raised his hand and called his teacher by name.

My guess is he gotten into his “new habit” of doing teachers way and was more automatic to him. Then we had the long Xmas break and 2 days of school closing due to weather last week, he just plain forgotten now.

The 1st warning was actually week before his Xmas dismissal and 2nd today.


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[Snow mom]

What is the punishment/consequence for the warnings? How is he handling the teacher being upset with him over this? Those things would affect whether this was something I would want to address more with the teacher/principal. If the warnings aren't high consequences and he's not feeling upset I wouldn't escalate it at this point. If it is affecting him I'd make sure he teacher understood that this should be reinforced but not punished. I wouldn't punish him further of course but I would keep working with him.

[carolinacool]

Got it. In this case, I do think she's being very unfair. It's hard to come back to anything after a two- or three-week break. She should cut him some slack, especially since he had been doing what she asked.

[KrisM]

Ah, okay. I still think he's probably doing well.

[DualvansMommy]

What is the punishment/consequence for the warnings? How is he handling the teacher being upset with him over this? Those things would affect whether this was something I would want to address more with the teacher/principal. If the warnings aren't high consequences and he's not feeling upset I wouldn't escalate it at this point. If it is affecting him I'd make sure he teacher understood that this should be reinforced but not punished. I wouldn't punish him further of course but I would keep working with him.

He’ll go down a level on their behavior chart. He always had maintained his “top” level so he would be upset losing his level as a rule follower kid. Per his words, my teacher says I need more reminding from you guys at home. He seems to be kinda nonchalant with his teacher comments to him, but was really focused on the fact he could down a level with the chart.


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[California]

As a teacher, I would try to ignore the noise-making and consistently respond to the raised hand (or whatever appropriate cue I wanted the child to use.) And probably it would drive me crazy after a while- not that he kept doing it, but that I couldn't stop responding! I wonder if she's partly frustrated with herself. I would probably use some sort of star chart to catch him using the right cues. But not punish.

What I'm wondering is how exactly are YOU supposed to help DS break this habit? This is something that is completely appropriate for him to do at home. You can remind him in the morning before he leaves for school. Maybe a visual reminder- Write it on his hand, tape a note to his desk, give him a bracelet, have him wear a glove Michael Jackson style or ??? :-) Ask your DS. He may have some ideas.

[HannaAddict]

Based on being a functional tool he uses at home with deaf parents, he should not be getting yellow cards or official warnings. Period. It can be an ongoing thing and reminding him, but it isn’t done to annoy or in anger but is part of his life and not so easy for a child to turn on and off. They need to accommodate this and be more understanding. Yes, remind him but also let his classmates know why he does this, that he doesn’t mean to be disrespectful and that he is working on it. It is a teachable moment and also a way to talk about differences if they want to frame it that way. But I would not accept it as punishment at all in this situation. I would advocate for him and emphasize that it serves a purpose in the other part of his life.


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[Philly Mom]

Based on being a functional tool he uses at home with deaf parents, he should not be getting yellow cards or official warnings. Period. It can be an ongoing thing and reminding him, but it isn’t done to annoy or in anger but is part of his life and not so easy for a child to turn on and off. They need to accommodate this and be more understanding. Yes, remind him but also let his classmates know why he does this, that he doesn’t mean to be disrespectful and that he is working on it. It is a teachable moment and also a way to talk about differences if they want to frame it that way. But I would not accept it as punishment at all in this situation. I would advocate for him and emphasize that it serves a purpose in the other part of his life.


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I agree with this.


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[123LuckyMom]

Based on being a functional tool he uses at home with deaf parents, he should not be getting yellow cards or official warnings. Period. It can be an ongoing thing and reminding him, but it isn’t done to annoy or in anger but is part of his life and not so easy for a child to turn on and off. They need to accommodate this and be more understanding. Yes, remind him but also let his classmates know why he does this, that he doesn’t mean to be disrespectful and that he is working on it. It is a teachable moment and also a way to talk about differences if they want to frame it that way. But I would not accept it as punishment at all in this situation. I would advocate for him and emphasize that it serves a purpose in the other part of his life.


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I absolutely, 100%, agree!!! The banging your child is doing is part of his home culture. He still needs to do it at home, so it’s not even a behavior he can completely eradicate. To learn to do this behavior at home only but not at school is going to be even more difficult than learning to eradicate the behavior entirely. Punishing him for this would be like punishing a student whose home language is Spanish for mistakenly starting to speak or write in Spanish in the classroom rather than in English. That wouldn’t be something you’d punish. You would gently remind the child to use English. This banging is a communication tool for your child. It’s language, and it’s necessary and appropriate language in his home. He’s not seeking to be disruptive, and even though the banging is disruptive, the teacher needs to treat it as she would any other cultural or linguistic difference that is appropriate in the child’s home but not normative or appropriate in a school environment, not as a behavioral problem or a punishable offense. I suspect that in our school, the whole class would receive some education about the behavior and figure out how to understand and accept it while your son was learning the different culture of the school. I’d go to the mat on this one, because I think the teacher is missing an educational opportunity for the class and thinking of the behavior only in terms of its disruption to her rather than in terms of its necessity to him as a means of communication and a cultural difference. He’ll learn to stop banging in school, but it’s going to take time and effort, and the school needs to be understanding.


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[StantonHyde]

So I can get why she doesn't want him to do this in school. But to say that you are supposed to remind him at home???? He has to do this at home. He canNOT stop doing this at home. Period. End of story. Eventually, he has to figure out that he can't do this outside of home. But is he in 1st grade? And this is after break? Nah, she needs to cut him some slack. I think you can remind him, like a PP said, in the morning before he leaves, but that's it. I would email the teacher and say that you talked to Dh and that you will remind DS, but he can't be expected to completely extinguish this behavior that is NECESSARY to his functioning at home. (or I would be tempted to have a meeting with the teacher and face away from her for a moment so that she was forced to pound the desk to get your attention......) If the teacher is not receptive, then chat with the principal.

[jenstring95]

I absolutely, 100%, agree!!! The banging your child is doing is part of his home culture. He still needs to do it at home, so it’s not even a behavior he can completely eradicate. To learn to do this behavior at home only but not at school is going to be even more difficult than learning to eradicate the behavior entirely. Punishing him for this would be like punishing a student whose home language is Spanish for mistakenly starting to speak or write in Spanish in the classroom rather than in English. That wouldn’t be something you’d punish. You would gently remind the child to use English. This banging is a communication tool for your child. It’s language, and it’s necessary and appropriate language in his home. He’s not seeking to be disruptive, and even though the banging is disruptive, the teacher needs to treat it as she would any other cultural or linguistic difference that is appropriate in the child’s home but not normative or appropriate in a school environment, not as a behavioral problem or a punishable offense. I suspect that in our school, the whole class would receive some education about the behavior and figure out how to understand and accept it while your son was learning the different culture of the school. I’d go to the mat on this one, because I think the teacher is missing an educational opportunity for the class and thinking of the behavior only in terms of its disruption to her rather than in terms of its necessity to him as a means of communication and a cultural difference. He’ll learn to stop banging in school, but it’s going to take time and effort, and the school needs to be understanding.


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I totally agree with all of this, and I will say that I think this is a teachable moment not just for the students but for the teacher as well. You can remind your DS at home, but you cannot re-enforce the behavior the teacher wants since it is at odds with what your family needs to do to communicate. This is your hill, IMO. I am thinking maybe the school counselor needs to be involved as well - to communicate with the teacher. While I can see the desire to stop the behavior at school, that's going to take time, and there is no way a phone call home was warranted at this time- especially so soon after the holiday break.

[infocrazy]

We're actively trying with teacher's help telling DS1 that it is NOT ok to do that in his classroom or any of the public outings with us.
Snip
we're still continuing working with DS1 re: particular behavior and we always reinforce it frequently every time we go out in public as a family.

I absolutely agree that if it is necessary at home the teacher needs to cut your kid a break...particularly since it sounds like he has done a great job in trying to follow the classroom rules.

That said, it seems like you might be wanting him to also not do it in public when with you. If that is the case, then I would maybe see if there is a different way that he can get your attention at home that is more in line with what you want in public and at school. It will be easier to break the habit if it is more consistent....I totally get that things are OK at home though that wouldn't be in public so feel free to ignore.

[Pear]

I would suggest the teacher take a more positive approach. It would be simple to let her know which days he doesn’t engage in

[Pear]

I would suggest a positive approach from the teacher. From the teacher, she can praise him for each good day. For home, Maybe a sticker chart where he gets a sticker for each successful day. Teacher either let’s you know which days were good or not perfect (can’t say bad here) and you can fill in the chart. Once he fills it, do a small reward.

[magnoliaparadise]

At the start of your post I was going to side with the teacher until you mentioned you were deaf and that is how he has to get your attention at home. In that case, I’m on your side. Your DS is young and I’m sure the pounding is a habit for him. I think it will be hard for him to stop. I would just continue to work with him at home and remind him not to do it at school. I would not punish him. I think his teacher needs to be more sensitive as this falls under cultural differences.

I haven't read any further posts than this one so this might have been already said, but I completely agree. I am on your side here. This teacher is being insensitive. This is one of those 'walk a mile in my shoes' kind of situations. She just doesn't get it. She should not be punishing your kid. She should go for positive rewards. If she doesn't and it goes further and you feel like she is being too tough on your kid, I would personally involve someone else in the school (assistant principal, etc).

[JustMe]

Is there any kind of multicultural/diversity/inclusion specialist in your district? Or even someone who is like a deaf specialist (sorry I don't know the correct name for that)? I think this teacher needs some education related to living with deaf parents, and IMHO many school personnel don't take this type of education well from parents (sorry to those of you who are teachers or in a related field and are able to hear parents in this way, but that is my experience). It would be great to have some kind of advocate/knowledgeable person with credibility explain to the teacher why this is difficult for your son. A principal or assistant principal may be able to help as well, as others have mentioned, but this other type of person would be ideal.

[DualvansMommy]

I would suggest a positive approach from the teacher. From the teacher, she can praise him for each good day. For home, Maybe a sticker chart where he gets a sticker for each successful day. Teacher either let’s you know which days were good or not perfect (can’t say bad here) and you can fill in the chart. Once he fills it, do a small reward.

After several emails all week with the teacher who suggested the very same thing you suggested. I shut it down quickly by asking for face to face meeting since I want to explain to the teacher that I did NOT want any behavior rewards; color chart, sticker chart or any of it’s kind to be tied with that particular behavior for DS1.

Within the Deaf families, it’s a natural necessary function. To try to correct it by tying it with rewards will only set up for further confusion, anger, and feeling perhaps inferior or “different” in the long run. So the teacher was open to the meeting after briefly telling her that.


Is there any kind of multicultural/diversity/inclusion specialist in your district? Or even someone who is like a deaf specialist (sorry I don't know the correct name for that)? I think this teacher needs some education related to living with deaf parents, and IMHO many school personnel don't take this type of education well from parents (sorry to those of you who are teachers or in a related field and are able to hear parents in this way, but that is my experience). It would be great to have some kind of advocate/knowledgeable person with credibility explain to the teacher why this is difficult for your son. A principal or assistant principal may be able to help as well, as others have mentioned, but this other type of person would be ideal.

Actually there is a teacher of the Deaf covering 3 different schools in my district. I’ve met her before on unrelated issue with DS2 and have asked for her presence at my meeting with the teacher this evening. Will see what happens then!



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[PZMommy]

How do you normally communicate with teacher? I know in my district when I had a student whose parents were deaf, they could request an interpreter for open house, parent teacher conferences, etc. I’m wondering if there is someone like that in your district who could talk to the teacher and explain how this is a cultural thing.

My student (who was in kindergarten) didn’t bang on things, but would put her hand in front of other kids’ faces and wave to get their attention, because she did that at home a lot to get her parents’ attention. Also, since at home she really didn’t have anyone to talk with vocally at home she wanted to talk non stop in class. It was something we worked on throughout the year, but it was never something she was punished for.

[trcy]

Good luck with your meeting!


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[California]

I am so curious why you wouldn't want the teacher to use a sticker chart? For me, as a teacher, catching a student using the appropriate signal and recognizing it is one of the most concrete reinforcement tools I have. I work with older kids so I don't actually use sticker charts as it's not age appropriate for them. But I do make sure to do physical reinforcements- a touch on the shoulder and a quick, "Hey, you raised your hand!" or a short chat that the end of class to let them know that I'm noticing that they are trying.

If you could help me learn more about your viewpoint I would really appreciate it. I just finished an eight week basic ASL class and will start a second one in February, but am between classes now and can't ask the instructor.

[musicalgrl]

This really bothers me, as I don't see it as misbehaving. He's trying to communicate, not act out. I understand that he needs to learn to respond differently at school than at home, but changing habits for a 6 year old isn't easy! I current have one that "hums". All the time. I've asked him many times not to do it so loud or around others, but it's not something he's doing consciously and he often reverts to it when reading or focusing intently on something. I've thanked his teachers for their patience, as I know that it can be distracting when he does it repetitively and they don't seem to have an issue with it. I hope your son's teacher has some empathy rather than looking to punish.

[boogiemom]

I don’t think your DS should be punished for not immediately changing what has been a lifetime of behavior for him and for his family. I understand that he needs to realize this is not the proper way to get attention in the hearing world but he’s so young, it’s going to take time. Present it to the teacher as a cultural issue because this is consistent with deaf culture, which is the only thing DS knows.


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[SAHMIL]

I would definitely find out if there is an advocate that you can use be it a counselor, a special education teacher , or social workers. I would talk with them about this because i agree with everything that has been said on here. Good luck!


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[DualvansMommy]

How do you normally communicate with teacher? I know in my district when I had a student whose parents were deaf, they could request an interpreter for open house, parent teacher conferences, etc. I’m wondering if there is someone like that in your district who could talk to the teacher and explain how this is a cultural thing.

My student (who was in kindergarten) didn’t bang on things, but would put her hand in front of other kids’ faces and wave to get their attention, because she did that at home a lot to get her parents’ attention. Also, since at home she really didn’t have anyone to talk with vocally at home she wanted to talk non stop in class. It was something we worked on throughout the year, but it was never something she was punished for.

If it were just the teacher and myself or with DH, it's normally just ourselves. BTS night we did use an interpreter as the classroom was gonna have 19 plus parents plus teacher which is near impossible for me to follow conversations in that large setting. The max i'm comfortable alone is usually 3-5 people, beyond that I usually ask for an interpreter. DH, on the other hand is comfortable following 10-15 people on his own.


I am so curious why you wouldn't want the teacher to use a sticker chart? For me, as a teacher, catching a student using the appropriate signal and recognizing it is one of the most concrete reinforcement tools I have. I work with older kids so I don't actually use sticker charts as it's not age appropriate for them. But I do make sure to do physical reinforcements- a touch on the shoulder and a quick, "Hey, you raised your hand!" or a short chat that the end of class to let them know that I'm noticing that they are trying.

If you could help me learn more about your viewpoint I would really appreciate it. I just finished an eight week basic ASL class and will start a second one in February, but am between classes now and can't ask the instructor.

I see it as a cultural norm, the teacher saw it as a behavioral norm/issue, and right now DS1 is ONLY just realizing the limitations/ignorance from community at large for his deaf parents that we face daily ourselves. It's pretty common for KODAS to struggle with their protection role ie by shielding us by comments from hearing people we come across, they see me signing to the boys or signing with DH, most often people assume the boys are deaf too. They're not. That is when they get to overhear ignorant or hurtful comments being said about his parents. That often puts a huge emotional toll on KODAS, and as a parent I try to minimize those chances. It'll never NOT happen, as I'm realistic enough to recognize some people are just stupid, mean or just all round ignorant. I don't want that to come from his safe place; school and particularly from his teachers. The teacher may mean well, but I don't know her intention behind suggesting in trying a behavioral chart, but I see more harm over the long run with that approach.

[DualvansMommy]

Update in original posting.

[NCGrandma]

Update in original posting.

Sounds very encouraging!


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[StantonHyde]

Great update! I am sorry that you have to explain all of this to the teacher--you will probably be doing this for many years to come and that thought can be exhausting. Good point on DSs first language being ASL and that he thinks like a deaf person. It really is hard for people to understand how the "other" person thinks. I remember changing a hotel reservation to an internal building room vs. a motel room with door to the outside. The trip leader couldn't find me in my new room and wondered why in the world would I change rooms. I had to explain that, as a woman, I was not comfortable in that other room. He got it immediately and apologized to me but it just didn't occur to him to think that way. It sounds like his teacher got it too, but you will need to keep reminding. Good work mama!!!

[jenstring95]

YES! I really kept thinking that this was such a great teachable moment (for the teacher and the students), so I'm glad that will happen. Does your school do anything for disability awareness? We have a week in early March that we used to call Disability Awareness but changed to Ability Awareness a few years ago to highlight that everyone has different abilities. The kids have a day in PE where they get blindfolded and do a trust walk, put gloves on and try to button a shirt, practice using wheelchairs, etc. Sometimes students and parents will give presentations about different abilities they have. The kids love it and (I think) learn tolerance and understanding from it. Your situation would be a perfect topic for something like that.

Thanks for the update!

[PZMommy]

Thanks for the update! I was wondering how things went. I’m glad it sounds like the teacher is going to be more sensitive to these issues.