Closure or just walk away?

[hbridge]

So I have a sibling with a long history of disappearing and/or losing connection with her family whenever she has a boyfriend/fiancé/husband... She is over 50 years old, this has been going on for as long as I can remember!

She married her first husband without any family at the wedding and disappeared for about 10 years until I reached out. This has happened with boyfriends as well, but usually only a few months before she came back begging for forgiveness. DH thought it important that I have a relationship with her for the sake of our children, which is the only reason she is back in the "family folds". She has since divorced her first husband with tons of family support (financial and otherwise). She is now in a relationship that moved very quickly from meeting, dating, moving in, to getting engaged. They met over the internet, not that that matters necessarily, but there are no common friends, ect. to give heads up/warnings/information.

Her fiancé just told off my elderly parents and is no longer going to have any contact with them. Sister did nothing when this was happening except stand there and let it happen. I was not witness to this. But know that my sister will never do anything without him or talk to anyone with his "permission"... I can't believe I just typed that, DH would laugh if I asked "permission" to make a phone call!!!!!

I have my own issues with my sister and her fiancé that are more related to her negative attitude about his kids, her opinion on everything, her lack of caring for anyone other than herself and him... The fact that she won't do anything without him there, is scary and ridiculous. Even when I am talking to her on the phone, he is making comments about the conversation in the background. She has been known to put the phone on speaker so that he can be part of the conversation.

We hosted them for Thanksgiving and Christmas...

I, honestly, can no longer handle the drama that she brings and cannot believe that she is letting everything happen AGAIN!!! We cannot bail her out again (financially, emotionally, ect.). I am done, but afraid to be done, since she honestly has NO ONE if this relationship fails or turns dangerous.

So my question is: what do I do? I very much want to just unfriend her on Facebook and in my head and just move on. However, should I tell her and have it out (it will be a blowout), so she knows that she is screwing up the relationships that support her? I can't have this toxic attitude in my world anymore...EVER! BUT, what if something happens to her, will I be able to live with that? Also, I am concerned about DC. I opened up this relationship for them with their aunt, now I'm slamming it shut!

Any suggestions?

[123LuckyMom]

I don’t think this has to be an all-or-nothing enterprise. Modeling good boundaries for your sister could be good for her, and certainly you should be able to construct boundaries that you feel protect you and your family. What would those boundaries be? Might they exclude the fiancé but include her? If it were me, I would draw boundaries that excluded him, and I would do that based on his choice to cut out your parents. You don’t want your children to form a relationship with someone who may sever that tie at any moment. I wouldn’t try to talk her out of the relationship or point out all his flaws or hers. That won’t be helpful. Rather, I’d tell her you love her very much, and you’d like to continue to have a relationship with her and for her to have a relationship with the kids, but that you do not want any relationship with her fiancé. That means you do not want him at your home or as part of your phone conversations. If she is willing and able to come to your home without him, meet you outside your home without him, or to make private telephone calls, you will be thrilled to receive them and her, but you don’t want to interact with her fiancé. Don’t get pulled into a debate about his character, hers, or yours. Just keep saying, “I love you, and I want to be in relationship with you, but I need for the relationship to be with you only and not with your fiancé/spouse.” This will most likely make her very angry, and she will probably withdraw from the relationship with you and the children, but it will leave the door open for her to come back when she needs you, and that’s very important. Also, who knows, she may take you up on the offer.

If your kids notice her absence, you can tell them the truth in an age-appropriate way. You can say, “I love your aunt. She’s my sister, and I’ll never stop loving her or wanting to have a good relationship with her, but I don’t think her fiancé is kind to your grandparents, and I worry he might not be kind to us and maybe even that he’s unkind to her, so I’ve told her we’d love to see her and talk to her as long as she comes by herself without him. I hope she’ll come some day soon, because I miss her.”


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[dogmom]

I think it would benefit from you to take a few steps back and look at her behavior as an outsider then reflect upon yourself and your family dyanimcs. I’m assuming she’s older than you? Do you have concern about mental health issues? What were the dynamics is the family that helps her stay in these controlling relationships? Could there have been trauma in the past that you are unaware of that contributes? Try to be very honest in your reflection. Especially if there is an age gap the experience of parenting can different widely. If not a big age gap the temperament of siblings differ enough to provide different experiences. I’m NOT trying to blame anyone in your family for this. But if you approach it from why is this person being this way instead of why is my sister being this way I think it will then help you decide how to move forward. My brother has several issues. He’s not a strong presence in my or my children’s life, but we still see him. Now that my children are older I’m open with his issues. I don’t try to hide it. Your kids are going to run into friends or coworkers with problems in the future. Modeling behavior that is both compassionate but realistic is a great gift to give them.

It may be helpful to seek a therapist for some short term help with this. I find routine of going someplace neutral every week or so for a couple of months to sort out something this emotionally laden very helpful to my thought process.

[musicalgrl]

I'd find ways to avoid him without necessarily stating that I'm doing so. I think that would make her very defensive and could damage your relationship with her. Can you call to connect with her when you know that she's out of the house, e.g. at work or with her kids at activities? Can you see her children after school, before he's home from work? (I don't know how close you live to them to know if this is feasible).

I'm a fan of steering clear of toxic people and relationships, however it's tricky when it involves close family members. Instead of unfriending her on FB, consider un-following her so that her posts are no longer in your feed, but you still have the ability to access them if you want to.

I'm sorry he was so crappy to your parents, especially since they are elderly. That is really unfair.

[hillview]

I would limit your interactions. Minimal phone calls. Maybe do one holiday if required. You can be friends on Facebook but not see her feed (there’s a setting for that ).

[hbridge]

OP here... Just to clarify, the kids are his. My sister does not have any children...

Also, sister has made it clear that she will not do anything without him involved. Years ago, when DC were little and my sister was newly divorced, my mother and sister started doing a day of Christmas cookie baking with my kids. Since she started dating this guy, my sister will not participated because he is not included...heck, I'm not included :) ! The kids have been really disappointed that their aunt won't be there... AND my sister actually critiqued them on Christmas day for not making her favorite kind of cookie!

I like the idea of unfollowing on Facebook... does that mean she can no longer see my posts as well?

In all honesty, I don't know if I want to continue a relationship with her. I can't trust her and never know when she is going to turn on me or my family. Honestly, this has been going on since I was a child... If this were a friend or even a cousin, I would have ended the relationship decades ago! Every instinct is telling me to RUN...AWAY...FAST! However, if anything happens to her...

Of course, all of this is on top of elderly parents, seriously ill in-laws, and a medically unstable child... There is so much in the world that cannot be controlled, I have ZERO patience for this drama!

[TwinFoxes]

I'm trying to figure out if she's local to you?

I'm with those who say minimize contact. I'd hide her on FB (she can still see your posts), stop with calling etc. But I don't see the point of a huge "I'm done with you" conversation. I mean, for one thing, are you really done? If she saw the light and dropped Mr. Controlling, wouldn't you let her back into your life. I just feel little good comes of those types of conversations.

One thing I will say, don't blow how much your kids like her out of proportion. My kids always say things like "Oh no! Auntie Blank won't be there? I love her!" And then 5 minutes later completely forget the conversation and don't even notice when Auntie Blank doesn't show up. So don't feel guilty about that, kids are resilient.

Do you need to take steps to protect your parents from this guy? That is one thing that concerns me.

[wendibird22]

Do you think this is a domestic violence situation? She doesn't have to be physically abused for it to be. Emotional abuse (such as controlling her and isolating her) counts. If so, do you think she needs family support to get her out of a harmful situation? That would change how likely I was to stay connected to her in some way. If the answer is no to those, then yes you can and should minimize contact for your own emotional well being IMO.

And on Facebook you can create a "group" or category that and then give that group specific access rights. So I have a courtesy friend group for people who I accept their friend request but don't want them seeing my posts. Everyone else is in a "full access" group and they can see everything. The no access group can only see cover photo and profile photo because FB doesn't let you lock those down. But any other pic, any other post, tags, etc can only be seen my my full access group. Any time a new friend request is accepted I go in and assign that friend to one of those two groups. So you could do something similar and put your sister in a no access group and then make your full access sharing the default and she won't see your posts. Unfollowing her only means you don't see her info, but she can still see yours. ETA: I think you can also make your post sharing to everyone except and then you select people you want to eliminate from seeing your posts. I'm just not sure if you have to change that every time you post or not.

[hbridge]

Do you think this is a domestic violence situation? She doesn't have to be physically abused for it to be. Emotional abuse (such as controlling her and isolating her) counts. If so, do you think she needs family support to get her out of a harmful situation? That would change how likely I was to stay connected to her in some way. If the answer is no to those, then yes you can and should minimize contact for your own emotional well being IMO.
.

We have no idea about domestic violence with this guy. Her divorce was from a domestic violence situation. This relationship is suddenly feeling very similar. HOWEVER, I don't think I can support her through another divorce or domestic violence situation, other than find her a support hotline if she asks. The cost of the last divorce/domestic violence situation on our family is still being felt emotionally and financially. Also, now I have a fragile child and elderly parents to consider. My fear; though, that something will happen to her. HOWEVER, how many times can we bail her out of a situation, when we have pointed out the warning signs and she chooses these men over everything else, including herself? I just don't understand...

With our family background, I am sure she is looking for stability. We have a very stable family growing up, but moved long distance every few years; it affected her more than me.

She is local-ish to us. However, I have not been invited to her home or even seen any of her houses/apartments in over 20 years.

[California]

It doesn't sound like you have much contact outside of the holiday season? I know the holidays just happened and are very fresh on our minds. But we have over 10 months before they roll around again. In that time, how would you feel if you took steps to set boundaries, without confronting her? That could include setting it up so she can't see your FB posts (if you are concerned she might see GTGs), being less available for phone calls, and simply maintain your relationship with your parents without including your sister?

I'm wondering if maybe you're "real" concern here that you are worried your presence in her life makes her feel more comfortable pursuing unhealthy relationships. Are you thinking that if she knows, in the back of her mind, she has you to fall back on, she's less likely to protect herself? Therefor you want to give her a heads up that you won't be bailing her out again?

[hbridge]

My concern is about my sanity, my families sanity and everyone's health! She creates so much stress and drama, I need to get off the roller coaster... for good. I'm just not sure how.

My sister is making her decisions. She could care less if she has a fallback, until she needs money or a place to stay or help of any other kind. Then she will just expect us all to be there. She showed up one day, years ago, threatening to hurt herself and telling me she had no one to talk to. When I told her she had me, she essentially dismissed it; I wasn't important. Her family is never important to her...

I guess I am done... I feel heartless and cruel saying that. How many years of drama are enough? I guess there is no reason to tell her. It's not like she will miss my contacting her since she never responded anyway...

My heart breaks for my parents after all they have tried to do...after what we all did... She just does not care!

[Kindra178]

I’m with others, why all or nothing? No reason why you have to be in her business. Yet no reason you have to end contact. If she needs a meal or a friend, that’s fine, with limits. She doesn’t need your money and you should make that clear, if she asks. Other than that, who has time for family drama? Live parallel lives, checking in periodically. You can set the time frame for checkins. 6-8 weeks seems good to me. I like the, “at Trader Joe’s, saw your favorite tea, made me smile, hope you are well.” Don’t worry if she responds or not.


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[California]

OK, got it, sounds like you are wanting some closure. In your shoes I would write a letter pouring out all your pain and anguish, and then not mail it. Just, to paraphrase the famous song, let her go. Don't make contact, unfollow her on FB, continue making plans with your family without her, and if she texts or calls (sounds like she may not), send a brief quick response without engaging.

I like 123LM's response, and at the same time, think it could be healthy for you to have a conversation that is not with your sister. A letter. A therapist. A pet. Even a friend role playing with you. Get that pain and anger out without including your sister, who won't respond in a healthy way and will only bring drama.

[niccig]

I’m with others, why all or nothing? No reason why you have to be in her business. Yet no reason you have to end contact. If she needs a meal or a friend, that’s fine, with limits. She doesn’t need your money and you should make that clear, if she asks. Other than that, who has time for family drama? Live parallel lives, checking in periodically. You can set the time frame for checkins. 6-8 weeks seems good to me. I like the, “at Trader Joe’s, saw your favorite tea, made me smile, hope you are well.” Don’t worry if she responds or not.


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This is what I do with my sister. I'm middle of 3 girls. My older sister and younger sister do not get along, younger sister has lots of drama in her life, but not to the extent of your sister. They had a big fight and older sister basically says, "I don't like you and I don't want to spend any time with you." No coming back from that.

I stay out of the drama with my younger sister by unfollowing on facebook so I don't see the posts that drive me crazy, I call and chat occasionally, she came and stayed at Christmas (5 days, and I won't do longer than that). I suggested she go see a therapist when she was getting divorced from Husband #2 and again when she was upset about what older sister said or on how to deal with our mother. There's a whole tonne of issues that she needs to sort out from our family, her work issues, Husband #1 and Husband #2. I can't be her emotional support, so when she starts on something I listen for a bit then suggest she see a therapist again.

If you want closure, then see a therapist to talk about your sister and how to deal with her. You won't get it by telling her you're done with her. If you don't see her often anyway, you don't' have to tell her you won't see her, just carry on with your life and deal with her as your paths cross. If things fall apart with this fiancee, then she's a grown up and can figure out how to deal with it. I'm the only family my sister has in the USA, when she got divorced from Husband #2 I didn't go to help her. She eloped and married him without telling family, she figured out how to get unmarried as well. I did talk with her on the phone and check in, but directed her to her therapist and lawyer about most things. Those people are the professionals, not me.

[niccig]

She showed up one day, years ago, threatening to hurt herself and telling me she had no one to talk to. Call the police if she's threatening to harm herself. If she is serious about saying that, she'll get professional help she needs.

[jacksmomtobe]

OK, got it, sounds like you are wanting some closure. In your shoes I would write a letter pouring out all your pain and anguish, and then not mail it. Just, to paraphrase the famous song, let her go. Don't make contact, unfollow her on FB, continue making plans with your family without her, and if she texts or calls (sounds like she may not), send a brief quick response without engaging.

I like 123LM's response, and at the same time, think it could be healthy for you to have a conversation that is not with your sister. A letter. A therapist. A pet. Even a friend role playing with you. Get that pain and anger out without including your sister, who won't respond in a healthy way and will only bring drama.

I agree with the above approach. It seems like OP needs to be done with this relationship right now. She has too much other stress in her life to deal with her sister’s drama. I think she should let it go. Just because someone is related to you doesn’t mean you have to keep them in your life if they are toxic. It sounds like their relationship is a one way street with OP giving and sister taking with sister not appreciating or valueing OP. The above approach will lift a burden for op emotionally but doesn’t involve a dramatic proclamation to her sister that she can’t come back from. OP sometimes you need to put yourself and your sanity first.

[BDKmom]

It sounds to me like you are already done with her but feel too guilty to admit to yourself that it's for good. I think that you should see a therapist to help you move past the guilt. If something happens to your sister, it is not your fault. She is very much a grown woman making her own choices and has been for a long time. It's not like she's a 20-something still finding her way and she will come around eventually. She is what she is. Stop letting her issues drag you down. You are saying that you are worried that something will happen to her, but what exactly? Someone physically harms her? Could you really stop that? She harms herself? Could you stop that either, if she really wanted to make it happen? It sounds like the last time she talked about harming herself, she at least reached out first, so maybe she would again. But even if she didn't, you need to realize that she isn't your responsibility and you don't need to feel guilt even if the worst happened. I think having a therapist talk you through the guilty feelings will allow you to move on in the way that you clearly want to.

[gamma]

Wow! This exactly! This applies to so many issues, which hold us back in life!
It sounds to me like you are already done with her but feel too guilty to admit to yourself that it's for good. I think that you should see a therapist to help you move past the guilt. If something happens to your sister, it is not your fault. She is very much a grown woman making her own choices and has been for a long time. It's not like she's a 20-something still finding her way and she will come around eventually. She is what she is. Stop letting her issues drag you down. You are saying that you are worried that something will happen to her, but what exactly? Someone physically harms her? Could you really stop that? She harms herself? Could you stop that either, if she really wanted to make it happen? It sounds like the last time she talked about harming herself, she at least reached out first, so maybe she would again. But even if she didn't, you need to realize that she isn't your responsibility and you don't need to feel guilt even if the worst happened. I think having a therapist talk you through the guilty feelings will allow you to move on in the way that you clearly want to.

[hbridge]

OP here...

Thank you ALL for your advice. I have chosen to extract my sister from my life... I do not have the capability to handle the drama that follows her and I need to protect myself and my family.

You do not know how much each and every comment means to me. Honestly, if I thought this relationship would ever be a positive one for me, I would not be doing this... Sometimes it's better to let go!