Kids and Practicing Instruments -- Any BTDT

[anonomom]

DD1 has joined the school band this year. She claims to love it and has even asked for private lessons, but will not practice her instrument at home without repeated reminders. For example, yesterday, I reminded her about practicing when she got home from school, and she begged for some down-time first. An hour later I reminded her again and she assured me that she had a plan to practice in 15 minutes. An hour later, another reminder and "oh, I'll do it after dinner." I told her no, she needed to practice now. She wandered off upstairs and still didn't do it. Finally, I yelled at her, and she burst into tears and wept through dinner (and still didn't &**O%O&^%& practice!!!). It's been over a week since she picked up that da**d instrument, and I am furious.

(argh! Literally just noticed that she left it at home today too! Deep breaths.)

I know this is normal, but that doesn't make it any less infuriating. I'm wondering how y'all have handled it? Do you keep nagging? Pull them from band? Some other solution?

The only option I will absolutely not consider is allowing her to continue in band without practicing.

[icunurse]

At our house, instrument practice is considered along the lines of "homework" and there is a loss of other privileges if homework isn't done. Both kids also have to do assigned time sheets and get a grade in the class, so, yes, here it is homework.

For us, what works is making practice interesting. Buy a music book chosen by your DD that she can practice with AFTER practicing her school stuff. We also have found that both kids enjoy playing in a group, so we sign them up for private lessons and the local youth orchestra. Not only does that make them practice by going to these things, but that also gives them a wider variety of music to practice. We also have the kids or active in a central location in the house. Not only so that we can hear them play and appreciate the progress, but sometimes it's more fun to play for someone than to just sit alone.

But I refuse to nag (which is different than a reminder). And if they would keep skipping and refuse to do the work, then I would tell them they are on the verge of losing the instrument. Treat it like any other class and have consequences for not doing the work.

[sariana]

Does she know how to practice? Does she know how to make a practice plan? (Warm up with scales and arpeggios, focus on a difficult passage, whatever it happens to be.) Does she understand the concept of "Practice means mistakes"?

Good practice is not an intuitive concept--many music students think they just need to play over and over and it will get better each time. When it doesn't (because that's actually not how it works), they get frustrated and think they're doing something wrong.

She may need help establishing a productive practice routine. If you're not a musician, maybe ask her band teacher for some ideas. If you are open to providing private lessons, that teacher also can provide support in this area.

That being said, getting my children to practice is absolutely miserable. Lots of yelling here, too, so I understand your frustration.

[georgiegirl]

I will admit I have never pressured DD to practice. However, she plays percussion, so she can’t really even practice at home for some of her parts. (We don’t have timpani or crash cymbals...lol). Our band teacher had certain rewards for the kids if they practice. Each quarter had a different type of competition and rewards. The kids responded very well to that type of inventive.


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[emily]

Does she know how to practice? Does she know how to make a practice plan? (Warm up with scales and arpeggios, focus on a difficult passage, whatever it happens to be.) Does she understand the concept of "Practice means mistakes"?

Good practice is not an intuitive concept--many music students think they just need to play over and over and it will get better each time. When it doesn't (because that's actually not how it works), they get frustrated and think they're doing something wrong.

She may need help establishing a productive practice routine. If you're not a musician, maybe ask her band teacher for some ideas. If you are open to providing private lessons, that teacher also can provide support in this area.

That being said, getting my children to practice is absolutely miserable. Lots of yelling here, too, so I understand your frustration.

This. It took DD (and us) a while to figure out that DD didn’t know what practicing meant. She thought once did went through her assigned music for the week she was done, so ten minutes and she would be done. She didn’t understand that she had to keep doing it until it was perfect.

We try to treat instruments like anything else they just do (homework, reading etc) but it still sucks and I have more than once threatened to take the lessons away. I have a chart on the fridge for the tasks they must do daily. It’s helps some but still lots of yelling.


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[ahisma]

It's a non-negotiable here. Like PPs, music practice is just like homework. It took some effort from us upfront, but now they have good habits (although we do still have to remind). We also have practice journals that we have them bring to their private teachers, so they are accountable for their practice habits and it's all very transparent.

If they don't practice, they know that we'll take away lessons. I spend $300/month on music (harp for DS2, guitar/voice for DS1) and I am absolutely not willing to do that if they won't practice.

[twowhat?]

We pay for private piano lessons and my kids love (LOVE) their teacher so the deal is that they have to practice and improve in order to be allowed to continue taking lessons. And they want to continue taking lessons.

That does mean there are days where we have horrible drama-ridden practice sessions but overall it works. We also keep practice sessions SHORT - 10-15 minutes tops. My kids are making progress, though slowly but that's OK with me as long as they are making progress and (overall) enjoying it. I will often sit down with them to help and guide how they're using their practice time. I'm SUPER rusty but I know enough of the basics to figure out what they are trying to do.

[daniele_ut]

DH is a professional cellist and youth orchestra conductor. Practicing is non-negotiable here and it happens before anything else. My kids attend the school where DH works so they go in early with him and spend 30 minutes practicing before they go to class. On non-school days they have to practice before they are allowed to play with friends, play video games, etc. Once it became routine, the whining ceased.

DH teaches private cello as well and his rule of thumb is that a child should be practicing daily for the length of their private lesson. DS13's violin lesson varies between 30 and 60 minutes depending on his teacher so DS practices 45 minutes daily. DH is teaching DD10 cello and she has to practice 20-30 minutes daily. They are both in orchestra so they are practicing lesson music as well as ensemble music.

[infocrazy]

We switched to choir the next year...

[lovingdenver10]

If she really wants to continue....then she needs to practice. Treat it as homework.

[hillview]

Honestly for DS2 who is 10 and has trumpet this year it ends up not being worth it to me. He has about an hour of homework a night and he practices rarely (he started off strong). He also had a palate expander put in his mouth and it makes it very hard for him to play. This is his first year doing an instrument and will be his last I am sure. We are not a musical family and DS2 is the most musically inclined. I also hate how the trumpet sounds. I accept that this makes me a crappy mother on this point. I’ve made my peace.

[AnnieW625]

I am not vigilant about it. Music is required from 4th-8th grade at my kids school, but their band grade isn’t part of their gpa. My Dd1 started playing the flute 2 yrs ago in the fourth grade and I would have her practice at home for at least 10-15 minutes but she was still awful not because she was new but because she didn’t know her notes as the teacher wasn’t teaching them notes in class. He would say practice B flat scale at home and then give them music to play in the next class. She would listen to the kid next to her and try and play the same note. Everyone else was new too so it didn’t really pick up on my radar even though I had played flute for four years in school as well. This went on for a month or two and then decided to enroll her in private lessons because I knew she needed some extra help and the lessons were 30 minutes a week and required 10-15 minutes of practice a day. She went to lessons for 18 months and they helped a lot. She stopped lessons this past fall and is in her second year of advanced band. She wouldn’t be where she is without the lessons. Advanced band practices 2 hours a week at school, and sometimes 3 or 4 hours a week if they have a performance that week. Practice logs have never been required. Dd1 only practices at home now right before a test or a performance. The band teacher/director is a bit of a dictator at times, has no problem playing and advertising who his favorites are, and it frustrates DD1. It makes me sad because I know that influences my DD1 to only do the bare minimum work for the class because she already knows she has almost a zero chance of ever moving up a chair (yes he has chair additions at the beginning of each year) or being called to play a solo and if given the chance she love to do the extra work to make it happen.

Once her grade counts if she continues band in high school (and I have told her that a good band director is not going to be like her current teacher) then yes practice will be required at home and will be treated like homework.


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[123LuckyMom]

I don’t know how old your child is. Mine is 9, and I was reluctant to let him begin playing an instrument because I knew practicing wouldn’t be a priority, and I don’t believe in taking something on if you’re not going to make a full commitment. When I spoke with the orchestra teacher, though, she said she had no expectation of daily practice, and, at this age, her goal was to teach the kids to learn to read, play, and love music and find their chosen instrument. Practicing was a bonus, but she didn’t want it to become a chore, so suggesting practice was fine, requiring it was not. My son takes a weekly lesson and does orchestra in school. He only practices when he feels like it. He’s doing beautifully, the music teacher is pleased, and he has learned to read music and loves playing his instrument. Of course he’s young, but my point is you’ve said joining band and not practicing isn’t an option, but is that expectation of practicing being a need coming from you or from the teacher/school? If it’s from the school, I’d work with your child to figure out a practice schedule that works for both of you, and if that can’t happen, band is out, because practicing is requirement of the class. If the expectation is from you, or if you haven’t checked with the teacher about requirements, daily practice may not be necessary.


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[doberbrat]

I keep it short - 10min/day every day including holidays and vacations. Until her violin is practiced there is no free time, computer/kindle/etc time.

Practice makes progress

[div_0305]

DS did not practice the instruments he did through school band/strings. He learned so little during class that it made no sense to practice at home. He picks up quickly so it was actually a waste of time and money spent on those instruments unless he wanted private lessons. He already gets private lessons in guitar, and so that's the only practice he does/did willingly because he knows he needs to before his next lesson or it will be a wasted lesson.

[JustMe]

You may want to talk to the band teacher. Dd practiced a lot her first year in band and then stopped her second year. The band teacher told me she was doing great, so if she didn't want to practice that was fine with him. Ds now has the same teacher, doesn't practice, and is doing great. I agree that the pace is probably very unchallenging for kids that naturally pick it up...so practice is boring and maybe even contraindicated unless someone was going to give them something more challenging to work on.

I would not do private lessons unless the child is willing to practice, though.

[anonomom]

I don’t know how old your child is. Mine is 9, and I was reluctant to let him begin playing an instrument because I knew practicing wouldn’t be a priority, and I don’t believe in taking something on if you’re not going to make a full commitment. When I spoke with the orchestra teacher, though, she said she had no expectation of daily practice, and, at this age, her goal was to teach the kids to learn to read, play, and love music and find their chosen instrument. Practicing was a bonus, but she didn’t want it to become a chore, so suggesting practice was fine, requiring it was not. My son takes a weekly lesson and does orchestra in school. He only practices when he feels like it. He’s doing beautifully, the music teacher is pleased, and he has learned to read music and loves playing his instrument. Of course he’s young, but my point is you’ve said joining band and not practicing isn’t an option, but is that expectation of practicing being a need coming from you or from the teacher/school? If it’s from the school, I’d work with your child to figure out a practice schedule that works for both of you, and if that can’t happen, band is out, because practicing is requirement of the class. If the expectation is from you, or if you haven’t checked with the teacher about requirements, daily practice may not be necessary.


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DD is 12, and the band director has been very clear that he expects practice. They also have assignments that they're responsible for (recorded on an ipad). Her grade in band is very high, which mystifies me because I succeed in getting DD to practice once a week, if that.

[abh5e8]

"only practice on the days you eat, " says my girls violin teacher. It's not negotiable at my house. They often choose to practice in the morning as mood and energy are a little better then. For piano lessons, I sit with them about halfway through the week and if they can play it well, practice is short. That motivates then to learn their lessons. But as a family we spend a lot of time on music practice. I'm hoping it improves as they get older.

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[twowhat?]

DD is 12, and the band director has been very clear that he expects practice. They also have assignments that they're responsible for (recorded on an ipad). Her grade in band is very high, which mystifies me because I succeed in getting DD to practice once a week, if that.

She might just be good at it or it comes easily to her, so she doesn't need to practice to make the grade:) Maybe that's part of her reluctance, LOL..."why practice if I'm already doing so well?" In that case it might actually be worthwhile talking to the teacher. Say you know DD does very well in band and you'd like some ideas to challenge her a bit more, and try to get the teacher's buy-in to challenger her (e.g. if she's doing that well, moving her to a higher chair position, telling her that she/he (the teacher) would like her to enter a competition, etc.

[rlu]

Our situation is different in that part of DS's grade is based on the amount of practice done each week. He did beginning band two years (different instruments) in which you need 100 (maybe it was 90?) minutes a week to get full credit. In intermediate he needs 120 minutes each week. Besides practice on the instrument a certain amount of time spent watching/listening to videos of concert songs is allowed.

DS needs to finish practice before 8pm (hopefully 7pm) as we have small children living beside us and he understands we don't want to keep the kid up.

DS wants to get full credit so that's his motivation to get it done timely. We had more issues his first year when he was still learning to read notes. Drill time (homemade flash cards) on that was counted in his weekly minutes.

[squimp]

DD is 12, and the band director has been very clear that he expects practice. They also have assignments that they're responsible for (recorded on an ipad). Her grade in band is very high, which mystifies me because I succeed in getting DD to practice once a week, if that.

My DD took band for one year and she did the same. I have no idea if she practiced. She also got good grades and did what she needed to do to succeed in the class. She didn't love band and did not take it the next year. Personally, there are battles to fight and I don't think band practice is one of them.

If she were taking lessons that I was paying for, I'd have a slightly different philosophy.

[anonomom]

My DD took band for one year and she did the same. I have no idea if she practiced. She also got good grades and did what she needed to do to succeed in the class. She didn't love band and did not take it the next year. Personally, there are battles to fight and I don't think band practice is one of them.

If she were taking lessons that I was paying for, I'd have a slightly different philosophy.

Interestingly, she very badly wants private lessons. We told her in mid-December that we would be happy to pay for private lessons, but first she needed to get 30 consecutive days of practice to show that she was serious. She has gotten 3, non-consecutively. It's something of a pattern with her -- she is very, very happy to spend our money and time on activities/lessons/camps/teams, but the second she's asked to put some of her own effort in, she's done. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

She's also the only kid in the band playing her particular instrument. She's actually practicing right now (after a mere three reminders today), and based on what I'm hearing I'm going to go ahead and assume she isn't a prodigy. I think the Band teacher must not actually be listening to the kids' videos (to be fair, she isn't dreadful. She just sounds like a kid who's been playing sporadically for a few months.)

[squimp]

Interestingly, she very badly wants private lessons. We told her in mid-December that we would be happy to pay for private lessons, but first she needed to get 30 consecutive days of practice to show that she was serious. She has gotten 3, non-consecutively. It's something of a pattern with her -- she is very, very happy to spend our money and time on activities/lessons/camps/teams, but the second she's asked to put some of her own effort in, she's done. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

She's also the only kid in the band playing her particular instrument. She's actually practicing right now (after a mere three reminders today), and based on what I'm hearing I'm going to go ahead and assume she isn't a prodigy. I think the Band teacher must not actually be listening to the kids' videos (to be fair, she isn't dreadful. She just sounds like a kid who's been playing sporadically for a few months.)

If she really wants lessons, I would ask that she practice every day for the next month (or as much as your schedule allows) and document it. If she's willing to do this then I would talk about lessons. My DD is old enough that she should be responsible for her own practicing. The analogy for my DD is sports - if she started complaining about having to go to practice, well that would save me a lot of money, LOL. At this age, they need to want to do it. Otherwise it is a waste.

ETA - I see that you tried this! I would not give in to lessons at this point.

[icunurse]

If you can find a tutor within reasonable distance and for a decent price, I would encourage lessons. Both of my kids flourished with private lessons because the focus was solely on them and their difficulties. My DD was starting to hate her instrument, but then, with the help of her tutor, she had a turning point and just started to "get it". Now she loves her cello and has even joined an outside youth orchestra. She does need more reminding and prompts to practice, though, but that's also how she is with a lot of things.

At school, they attend orchestra 2-3 times/week and get pulled out of classes 1 day/week for sectionals (small group instruction with only their instrument). But they have to share that limited time with kids who may have bigger/different needs. I know that, for my DS, sectionals used to be almost useless because he was the only one actually practicing and taking private lessons, so the other kids needed more help. Now most kids playing the same instrument have tutors and are moving along nicely and sectionals has become a fun way to learn advanced techniques.

The students get grades starting in 5th grade and in junior high, it goes into gpa as a half credit. Honestly, if you show up and do your time sheet, you are practically guaranteed an A. Chair auditions are the hardest thing scored and I think the director is pretty generous because some kids....just aren't good at all. But if you turn it in on time and have half effort, you get an A of some kind. I have heard HS grading is harder, which I support.

[sariana]

Interestingly, she very badly wants private lessons. We told her in mid-December that we would be happy to pay for private lessons, but first she needed to get 30 consecutive days of practice to show that she was serious. She has gotten 3, non-consecutively. It's something of a pattern with her -- she is very, very happy to spend our money and time on activities/lessons/camps/teams, but the second she's asked to put some of her own effort in, she's done. Not that I'm bitter or anything.

She's also the only kid in the band playing her particular instrument. She's actually practicing right now (after a mere three reminders today), and based on what I'm hearing I'm going to go ahead and assume she isn't a prodigy. I think the Band teacher must not actually be listening to the kids' videos (to be fair, she isn't dreadful. She just sounds like a kid who's been playing sporadically for a few months.)

Now I want to know what she plays! Bassoon? Bass clarinet?

[sariana]

She didn’t understand that she had to keep doing it until it was perfect.

I didn't say anything about being perfect. I don't expect perfection, just progress over time.

[sariana]

Practice makes progress

Love this!

[magnoliaparadise]

My DD took band for one year and she did the same. I have no idea if she practiced. She also got good grades and did what she needed to do to succeed in the class. She didn't love band and did not take it the next year. Personally, there are battles to fight and I don't think band practice is one of them.

If she were taking lessons that I was paying for, I'd have a slightly different philosophy.

This. DD took viola at school and didn't like it and didn't want to practice. I decided to pick my battles and not make her. When she wanted to quit, I let her. Had I been paying for lessons or bought the instrument, I would have felt differently. I did tell her that she needs to try another instrument eventually (I like guitar and piano, but I'm open to anything she wants). It's kind of ironic, because I played an instrument through high school and was very into it - went to 'all state' events and traveled internationally playing with orchestras. But... I just saw that my kid didn't like viola and I didn't want to push with other priorities we have going on, at least now.

[anonomom]

This. DD took viola at school and didn't like it and didn't want to practice. I decided to pick my battles and not make her. When she wanted to quit, I let her. Had I been paying for lessons or bought the instrument, I would have felt differently. I did tell her that she needs to try another instrument eventually (I like guitar and piano, but I'm open to anything she wants). It's kind of ironic, because I played an instrument through high school and was very into it - went to 'all state' events and traveled internationally playing with orchestras. But... I just saw that my kid didn't like viola and I didn't want to push with other priorities we have going on, at least now.

I would be fine with her dropping band -- in fact, that is the threat we're hanging on her head -- practice, or find a different elective. But she professes to love playing (Sariana, it's Oboe) and is horrified by the thought of having to quit. I'm hoping that horror will spur her to start practicing, but I still don't like the multiple daily reminders.

We've imposed a "no screen time on weeknights" rule for all of the kids, as of this week. I think it was badly needed, and I hope it will solve a few issues we've been having.

[sariana]

I would be fine with her dropping band -- in fact, that is the threat we're hanging on her head -- practice, or find a different elective. But she professes to love playing (Sariana, it's Oboe) and is horrified by the thought of having to quit. I'm hoping that horror will spur her to start practicing, but I still don't like the multiple daily reminders.

We've imposed a "no screen time on weeknights" rule for all of the kids, as of this week. I think it was badly needed, and I hope it will solve a few issues we've been having.

Okay, so oboe is REALLY hard, and not much fun to play alone at first. Is there any way you can do a few "trial" lessons with a private teacher? Someone who could assess her skill level and provide a proposed lesson structure? I'm not sure how many teachers would be willing to do this, but i know my parents once got me a single session with a professional (I play bassoon), and it was amazing. Beyond the star-struck aspect (yeah, I'm a geek--I was in awe of a professional bassoonist), he gave me really good advice about my playing (and in my case choosing an instrument to buy--they're not all the same!).

Even a session or two with a private teacher could get your daughter on track to figure out how to make practice time work for her.

Also, if you don't know about Forrests Music, it's worth getting to know. THE definitive source of double reed supplies.

https://www.forrestsmusic.com/

[citymama]

BTDT. Definitely breathe deeply...

DD1 (almost 12) was horrible about practicing when she was younger but now in 6th grade, they're required to turn in weekly practice logs etc and she's pretty diligent.

DD2 (7.5) started piano at 6, and it's been excruciating until a few months ago when a) DH, who plays piano, was the parent who would sit with her and he could actually help/understand and b) he started to give her a minute of time on his phone for every repetition of a song she did. She would happily do 20 reps to get 20 minutes of "phone time." It's not a reward I would have dangled but now she runs to practice after school so she can get 20 minutes of time playing games on his phone! Bad parenting, maybe, but there we are.

I do think it's an age issue in part, and an incentives issue as well. And as they get better, practice becomes easier and more fun. Hang in there!

[KHF]

DD just started on French horn this year. In the schools we're in, they don't start band until 6th grade. DD picked horn because when she tried all the instruments, it was her favorite, plus I play horn so I can help her. That being said, she rarely practices at home. I do work with her when she's learning new things or before concerts, but she goes to school early and practices in the band room with other kids and then her band director stays after school for 2 hours twice a week so the kids can stay and work together if they want to. It's ended up well, she's getting in the practice and we don't have to bug her much. When she does need extra help, I can practice with her at home. I feel like the ability to practice with others is helpful. Even if they aren't on the same instrument, they don't feel so alone. That said, if we decide to continue on and she goes in to private lessons, she'll have to play at home then.

[bisous]

Lots of good advice so far.

I will say that my two oldest have wanted to play instruments at various times. With DS1 it was a major struggle and with DS2 it is a delight and it is easy. He WANTS to practice. It is a completely different experience doing a musical instrument with him!

OP, I think your idea of reducing screen time might help (we are not screen free but we are a "reduced screen" family) but you also might be able to use them strategically. For my kids I find it helpful to have a deadline of a sorts for doing something desirable and then I can put a lot of conditions into it. For my kids I turn on the TV at 5:00 while I cook dinner. Only kids who have done their homework and their practicing (and whatever tasks I want to add to their list) are permitted to watch shows at that time. It helps us to get everything done without argument.

Other posters have had fantastic advice about teaching HOW to practice too!