magnoliaparadise
04-26-2018, 07:00 AM
I would love your view on an issue that has really upset me. It's convoluted, but basically, my mother, my two kids, and I went on a trip and my mom (and my) friend wanted to join last minute. My mother declined and now that friend is upset. The question is: If a friend asks to be included in a family event - in this case a vacation - should they be? Is it extremely unkind if they are not?
I'm single and there was no spouse, which I think my tip the scales to saying that a friend should not be included.
My mother has a BFF "Jane" whom I have known for at least 30 years now. My mother and Jane share a lot together and talk almost daily. Jane was a therapist and now approximately 70 years old or a little older. Although she lives many states away, through the years, Jane has been extraordinarily generous with her time and energy to me. Although I talk with my mother, I also talk to Jane. I can call her about anything and she really listens to me, gives wise advice, has helped me. Although Jane shares basic facts about her life, she has almost never wanted to share much about herself emotionally or seek emotional support from me, so it's mostly a one-sided friendship of her helping me. Jane is kind of like a cross between a friend and second mother to me. Even though it's unusual, it's worked and my mom has supported it and was the one to suggest I call Jane when I first started to.
So... my mom, me, and my kids planned on going on a cruise. (My dad didn't want to go). I decided to do it to give my kids a treat of a 'real' vacation after some hard transitions this year. My mom wanted to come and I was happy to have her. However, my mom had another motive I only now learned, which is that she was hoping that the cruise would give us a chance to re-ignite our mother/daughter relationship. Our living together this past 9 months has really negatively impacted our relationship, unfortunately.
The day (or maybe two) before we were to leave for the cruise, Jane wrote a text to my mom and me saying that she was in very bad shape and there were a couple of cabins left on the ship. Would we mind if she bought a ticket on the cruise and she would see us on it? I don't have the text in front of me, but it wasn't exactly asking to be included in everything as much as that seeing us on the ship periodically and doing something together.
The request was very last minute for me and I didn't have much wiggle room for big decisions. I took my kids to an ill-timed "family weekend" camping trip at my oldest kid's summer sleepover camp the weekend before the cruise (I don't recommend it :) ) and the day that I received the text, I was exhausted. I had just spend all week finishing things up/packing up, then drove several hours to the camping trip, then several hours home to repack again for the cruise.
My mom asked me in those three hours between the two trips whether I thought Jane should come. I basically said... She is your BFF and I don't feel like it's fair for me to make the final decision so I will defer to you. However, if you want my opinion, I would invite her. We love her, she has been a great friend to you and more than helpful and wonderful to me in my life and she is asking to be included. I felt Jane would not have asked unless she really needed it. I said that it is a small sacrifice for my mom and I to lose the time we would spend together, but a big thing for her. And we can always go on a trip alone together another time with the kids.
My mom thought about it and talked to my dad and her sister, who both basically said that they felt Jane was violating basic boundaries asking to come on a family holiday and this was about a mother/daughter/grandchild. My mom also felt that, notwithstanding what Jane said about not doing things with us on the ship, she would of course hang out with us the whole time if she were on the ship. She also said that Jane always says that she feels comfortable asking for anything and if people want to decline, they can, so her request wasn't an indication of desperation.
My mother told Jane no (kindly) and we went on our trip. I had a bad feeling about it, but tried to forget about it and enjoy the trip.
When we returned home, Jane was both very angry, upset and very very hurt. For the last several days, she has given limited text responses ('sure' 'ok' 'yes') and returned only one call. It's all a mess. I feel so upset.
Jane's view... is that she was desperate, very depressed, felt she had no one in life at that moment and the lowest point of her life, and we weren't there for her. I did not quite understand how low she was, but now question whether it was my misunderstanding or that she wasn't clear.
Jane really sees this as a revelation about how we feel about her. She feels that friends (us in this case) matter more to her than she matters to them. She said it was a big ship (4500 guests) and all she wanted was to know we were on board and maybe see us and was amazed that we would exclude her - in fact, she shouldn't have had to even ask given the size of the ship, never mind being declined. She said, 'when I raised my kids, there was always an extra empty plate on the table, and I told them to always invite friends over for dinner and the more the merrier."
For my mother's part, she felt sad, but also angry that she was put in an awkward position last minute of having to decline when the vacation was meant for her to be with me doing mother/daughter/grandchild things and to spend some time with me to hopefully get our relationship back on track. She also felt that if Jane felt that she could make the request, she should also accept when the answer is no and shouldn't punish my mother for an honest answer.
Jane senses that I left this decision up to my mother, but is extremely hurt that I wouldn't push back on any decision and stand for having her come.
I feel... sad. I can see both views. I think I feel a lot more guilty than my mom because of how much Jane has helped me. I hate that Jane is hurting right now. I also fear that we have done irreparable harm to our individual relationships with Jane for a silly four night cruise.
I also feel - this is my very selfish part - that by not insisting that Jane come, I really hurt myself and future with Jane. I rely on talking to Jane as much as my mother, especially when I am going through difficult times. I fear I may have lost that now. If I really need to talk with her, she might think in the back of her mind, perhaps rightfully so, "Yes, but where were you when I needed you?"
Thank you for reading this. I'd love any very honest views you have. (But please no flaming). Do you think this is a no brainer and one way to look at this is correct (she should have been included vs. she was wrong to ask?) My mother and Jane both believe it's a no brainer to their view. I wonder it's not so clear cut in how people would respond in my mom and my shoes.
I'm single and there was no spouse, which I think my tip the scales to saying that a friend should not be included.
My mother has a BFF "Jane" whom I have known for at least 30 years now. My mother and Jane share a lot together and talk almost daily. Jane was a therapist and now approximately 70 years old or a little older. Although she lives many states away, through the years, Jane has been extraordinarily generous with her time and energy to me. Although I talk with my mother, I also talk to Jane. I can call her about anything and she really listens to me, gives wise advice, has helped me. Although Jane shares basic facts about her life, she has almost never wanted to share much about herself emotionally or seek emotional support from me, so it's mostly a one-sided friendship of her helping me. Jane is kind of like a cross between a friend and second mother to me. Even though it's unusual, it's worked and my mom has supported it and was the one to suggest I call Jane when I first started to.
So... my mom, me, and my kids planned on going on a cruise. (My dad didn't want to go). I decided to do it to give my kids a treat of a 'real' vacation after some hard transitions this year. My mom wanted to come and I was happy to have her. However, my mom had another motive I only now learned, which is that she was hoping that the cruise would give us a chance to re-ignite our mother/daughter relationship. Our living together this past 9 months has really negatively impacted our relationship, unfortunately.
The day (or maybe two) before we were to leave for the cruise, Jane wrote a text to my mom and me saying that she was in very bad shape and there were a couple of cabins left on the ship. Would we mind if she bought a ticket on the cruise and she would see us on it? I don't have the text in front of me, but it wasn't exactly asking to be included in everything as much as that seeing us on the ship periodically and doing something together.
The request was very last minute for me and I didn't have much wiggle room for big decisions. I took my kids to an ill-timed "family weekend" camping trip at my oldest kid's summer sleepover camp the weekend before the cruise (I don't recommend it :) ) and the day that I received the text, I was exhausted. I had just spend all week finishing things up/packing up, then drove several hours to the camping trip, then several hours home to repack again for the cruise.
My mom asked me in those three hours between the two trips whether I thought Jane should come. I basically said... She is your BFF and I don't feel like it's fair for me to make the final decision so I will defer to you. However, if you want my opinion, I would invite her. We love her, she has been a great friend to you and more than helpful and wonderful to me in my life and she is asking to be included. I felt Jane would not have asked unless she really needed it. I said that it is a small sacrifice for my mom and I to lose the time we would spend together, but a big thing for her. And we can always go on a trip alone together another time with the kids.
My mom thought about it and talked to my dad and her sister, who both basically said that they felt Jane was violating basic boundaries asking to come on a family holiday and this was about a mother/daughter/grandchild. My mom also felt that, notwithstanding what Jane said about not doing things with us on the ship, she would of course hang out with us the whole time if she were on the ship. She also said that Jane always says that she feels comfortable asking for anything and if people want to decline, they can, so her request wasn't an indication of desperation.
My mother told Jane no (kindly) and we went on our trip. I had a bad feeling about it, but tried to forget about it and enjoy the trip.
When we returned home, Jane was both very angry, upset and very very hurt. For the last several days, she has given limited text responses ('sure' 'ok' 'yes') and returned only one call. It's all a mess. I feel so upset.
Jane's view... is that she was desperate, very depressed, felt she had no one in life at that moment and the lowest point of her life, and we weren't there for her. I did not quite understand how low she was, but now question whether it was my misunderstanding or that she wasn't clear.
Jane really sees this as a revelation about how we feel about her. She feels that friends (us in this case) matter more to her than she matters to them. She said it was a big ship (4500 guests) and all she wanted was to know we were on board and maybe see us and was amazed that we would exclude her - in fact, she shouldn't have had to even ask given the size of the ship, never mind being declined. She said, 'when I raised my kids, there was always an extra empty plate on the table, and I told them to always invite friends over for dinner and the more the merrier."
For my mother's part, she felt sad, but also angry that she was put in an awkward position last minute of having to decline when the vacation was meant for her to be with me doing mother/daughter/grandchild things and to spend some time with me to hopefully get our relationship back on track. She also felt that if Jane felt that she could make the request, she should also accept when the answer is no and shouldn't punish my mother for an honest answer.
Jane senses that I left this decision up to my mother, but is extremely hurt that I wouldn't push back on any decision and stand for having her come.
I feel... sad. I can see both views. I think I feel a lot more guilty than my mom because of how much Jane has helped me. I hate that Jane is hurting right now. I also fear that we have done irreparable harm to our individual relationships with Jane for a silly four night cruise.
I also feel - this is my very selfish part - that by not insisting that Jane come, I really hurt myself and future with Jane. I rely on talking to Jane as much as my mother, especially when I am going through difficult times. I fear I may have lost that now. If I really need to talk with her, she might think in the back of her mind, perhaps rightfully so, "Yes, but where were you when I needed you?"
Thank you for reading this. I'd love any very honest views you have. (But please no flaming). Do you think this is a no brainer and one way to look at this is correct (she should have been included vs. she was wrong to ask?) My mother and Jane both believe it's a no brainer to their view. I wonder it's not so clear cut in how people would respond in my mom and my shoes.