how to deal - classmate targeting my DD (updated on 2nd page)

[♥ms.pacman♥]

DD is 7.5 and in 2nd grade. She has selective mutism meaning she doesn't speak in class, or at school in general, only to a few close friends/classmates she trusts. she speaks a ton at home, has good friends at school and is overall a generally happy kid.

however for past several months (since school started) there is a classmate that sits next to my DD that has been bothering her, to put it mildly. Today, DD told me that this girl, "M", took DD's eraser and cut it up in several pieces. When the teacher saw the cutup eraser on DD's desk, she assumed DD had done it and reprimanded her. This made DD very upset as for her it is the worst thing to get in trouble (she is a major rule follower who never gets in trouble). my dd brought home the eraser to show us and indeed it was

Now, this alone i wouldn't think of a big deal at all, but this is part of a definite pattern of behavior with this kid. A few weeks ago, same kid M stole DD's math notebook from her desk, and wrote nasty things/drawings about my DD in it. Another time, she tried stealing DD's card with her "class dojo" points on it. There have been times too when she tries to get the other classmates to steal things from DD (saying "hey Bobby, i'll pay you xxx to take this from [DD].") Luckily most of the other classmates do not engage M. But There are tons of tons of examples. DD mosty was letting it roll of her back and venting to us when she got home, but is starting to get anxious about it.

anyway, i know a seperate issue is that i need to figure out how to help my DD's anxiety/selective mutism, but i feel like this needs to get nipped in the bud somehow. i'm guessing M seems very aware of DD's inability to speak up and exploits it to the Nth degree. My DD is also tiny (45 lbs). it is making my DD anxious that she is going to get in trouble for something that M did. DD also comments that M is not mean to everyone and only mean to her for some reason.


as an aside, i would love to know what makes a kid do these things to another kid?? my kids are actually quite puzzled/annoyed more than hurt, if that makes sense. the crazy thing is i actually do know M's mom, who is active in the PTA and who is a super nice person and who i imagine is a great, involved mom. So i'm kind of baffled as to why her kid would do things like this!! I feel like by 7yo, a kid should know better, and knows the concept of stealing, not taking things that aren't yours, etc. I understand things like impulsivity, ADHD but this just seems calculated and targeted. For example, when after she had took DD"s notebook, she said something like "hey [DD]! Don't you need your math notebook now??" and then DD got her math notebook, to find she had written nasty drawings about her ("DD is x,y,z.."). I mean, this is straight up catty middle-school behavior!! She is purposely trying to make my DD miserable and not sure why.

any advice welcome! I''m already going to email the teacher so she is aware. in my 8.5 years of parenting i have never "complained" to a teacher about another kid and never had to deal with a kid targeting my kids but i guess there is a first time for everything...

[SnuggleBuggles]

Is your dd willing to write notes to the teachers since she can’t speak up? She could then let the teacher know what’s going on in the moment vs having to live with it all day.


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[bisous]

DD is 7.5 and in 2nd grade. She has selective mutism meaning she doesn't speak in class, or at school in general, only to a few close friends/classmates she trusts. she speaks a ton at home, has good friends at school and is overall a generally happy kid.

however for past several months (since school started) there is a classmate that sits next to my DD that has been bothering her, to put it mildly. Today, DD told me that this girl, "M", took DD's eraser and cut it up in several pieces. When the teacher saw the cutup eraser on DD's desk, she assumed DD had done it and reprimanded her. This made DD very upset as for her it is the worst thing to get in trouble (she is a major rule follower who never gets in trouble). my dd brought home the eraser to show us and indeed it was

Now, this alone i wouldn't think of a big deal at all, but this is part of a definite pattern of behavior with this kid. A few weeks ago, same kid M stole DD's math notebook from her desk, and wrote nasty things/drawings about my DD in it. Another time, she tried stealing DD's card with her "class dojo" points on it. There have been times too when she tries to get the other classmates to steal things from DD (saying "hey Bobby, i'll pay you xxx to take this from [DD].") Luckily most of the other classmates do not engage M. But There are tons of tons of examples. DD mosty was letting it roll of her back and venting to us when she got home, but is starting to get anxious about it.

anyway, i know a seperate issue is that i need to figure out how to help my DD's anxiety/selective mutism, but i feel like this needs to get nipped in the bud somehow. i'm guessing M seems very aware of DD's inability to speak up and exploits it to the Nth degree. My DD is also tiny (45 lbs). it is making my DD anxious that she is going to get in trouble for something that M did. DD also comments that M is not mean to everyone and only mean to her for some reason.


as an aside, i would love to know what makes a kid do these things to another kid?? my kids are actually quite puzzled/annoyed more than hurt, if that makes sense. the crazy thing is i actually do know M's mom, who is active in the PTA and who is a super nice person and who i imagine is a great, involved mom. So i'm kind of baffled as to why her kid would do things like this!! I feel like by 7yo, a kid should know better, and knows the concept of stealing, not taking things that aren't yours, etc. I understand things like impulsivity, ADHD but this just seems calculated and targeted. For example, when after she had took DD"s notebook, she said something like "hey [DD]! Don't you need your math notebook now??" and then DD got her math notebook, to find she had written nasty drawings about her ("DD is x,y,z.."). I mean, this is straight up catty middle-school behavior!! She is purposely trying to make my DD miserable and not sure why.

any advice welcome! I''m already going to email the teacher so she is aware. in my 8.5 years of parenting i have never "complained" to a teacher about another kid and never had to deal with a kid targeting my kids but i guess there is a first time for everything...

I think it is time to talk to the teacher. I don't know that it is complaining so much as making her aware of an issue for your DD. The teacher may be aware of more than you realize with this child. If she/he isn't, then it is especially important to make aware. Is DD's teacher good at working with your DD with her selective mutism? Is this a diagnosis that has a 504 or that you have met with the teacher to discuss? Some teachers are better than others about accommodating students without the official paperwork. If you don't have a 504, you might consider getting one. They usually are quite protective (I'm thinking of the other thread today so I admit they aren't perfect!) I think your DD will be a lot happier if you three (you, the teacher, DD) can work out a way for her to be able to communicate in the classroom with both her teacher and her classmates and advocate for herself in time though she may need a lot of adult help right now and that's ok too!

I'd make this more about how to help DD and less about the bully kid. I feel like in the course of your conversation that fact will become obvious and the teacher might be able to deal with that child better too. Talking to the teacher is in the best interest of all parties!

[TwinFoxes]

Ask for her to be moved. At that age my DDs’ teachers were moving kids a lot because of personality issues. I don’t think it’s a huge deal. And tell the teacher why so she can keep an eye on them. My DD had a girl that was mean to her for two years. Now they’re fine. Not besties, but friends. The other girls seems to have mellowed out. But I made sure the teachers were aware.

Seven is still really young. Kids act out because they are young.

What are you doing for your daughter’s mutism? That’s a huge issue, and it will only become a bigger deal as she gets older. There’s a girl in our school who has selective mutism and it’s really effecting her. Things that people accept in younger years have a negative impact in upper grades.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I agree- separate them.
Ds2 was being picked on by a kid last year and I emailed the teachers when I found out that it wasn’t getting better by ds2 trying to advocate for himself (the other kid was relentless). The teachers immediately acted and took it very seriously. They kept them apart for the remainder of the year and aren’t in the same homeroom now.


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[mackmama]

I would email the teacher ASAP, explain what’s happening, and request that they be separated. I’d also schedule an in-person meeting to discuss the issue further in addition to the selective mutism. You might also want to bring the school counselor in on that meeting too if your school has one because a counselor will have more experience brainstorming tools to help your child communicate with your teacher when help is needed.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

Is your dd willing to write notes to the teachers since she can’t speak up? She could then let the teacher know what’s going on in the moment vs having to live with it all day.


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Thanks! i had told DD to do this when this behavior first started happening, though DD seemed paralyzed on how to do it. My DS who is 1 year older says he frequently writes IMs to his teacher in class using their Chromebooks, so looking into if DD can do the same thing.


I did email the teacher tonight about it, and she responded right away. She was completely unaware of the issue, and was rather surprised that this particular student would do this. I'm not surprised and kind of suspected as much...from what iv'e seen, this kid is rather sneaky and is careful to not get caught, and is not a typical kid who gets in trouble. Actually, the worst behavior from this kid was the week they had a substitute, and every day DD was coming home telling us that M had tried to steal x,y, z from her, or tried to bribe other classmates to steal something from her, or threatened "if you don't do x,y,z, i will tell your brother on you." Finally on the last day the substitute caught on and caught her trying to take something of DD's.

A few weeks ago, we were at the playground at school and M happened to be there along with other kids. My DS (1 year older) immediately went up to her and confronted her and she totally denied everything and lied, etc. she seemed totally caught off guard and i thought maybe that would be the end of that of her harrassing DD (my DS is NOT shy and can be unrelenting, lol) but no.

re: my DD's selective mutism, we have a campus intervention team in place, have had it since Kinder. she has worked with a SLP too who occasionally observes her in the classroom. i have considered getting a therapist for her to help her more, though my concern is that she woudln't talk to a therapist ( she won't even talk to a teacher in public). i have looked on Selective Mutism network whcih therapists speciallize in treating SM, but there aren't any in my city. Iam wondering if i could see a therapist who is SLP, but not sure if that is approrpiate. still looking into this.

I disagree that this sort of behavior is normal for 7-8 years old, i'd put it on another level above just "acting out". My kids do stupid and immature things all the time, but i'd be beyond MORTIFIED if either of my DC was doing this kind of thing to another kid, especially on such a repeated basis. I honestly wish i knew what possesses kids to bully other kids at this age. i thought this nasty mean girl behavior wasn't supposed to start until middle school...

[niccig]

ms.pacman[emoji813];4312901]Thanks! i had told DD to do this when this behavior first started happening, though DD seemed paralyzed on how to do it. My DS who is 1 year older says he frequently writes IMs to his teacher in class using their Chromebooks, so looking into if DD can do the same thing.


I did email the teacher tonight about it, and she responded right away. She was completely unaware of the issue, and was rather surprised that this particular student would do this. I'm not surprised and kind of suspected as much...from what iv'e seen, this kid is rather sneaky and is careful to not get caught, and is not a typical kid who gets in trouble. Actually, the worst behavior from this kid was the week they had a substitute, and every day DD was coming home telling us that M had tried to steal x,y, z from her, or tried to bribe other classmates to steal something from her, or threatened "if you don't do x,y,z, i will tell your brother on you." Finally on the last day the substitute caught on and caught her trying to take something of DD's.

A few weeks ago, we were at the playground at school and M happened to be there along with other kids. My DS (1 year older) immediately went up to her and confronted her and she totally denied everything and lied, etc. she seemed totally caught off guard and i thought maybe that would be the end of that of her harrassing DD (my DS is NOT shy and can be unrelenting, lol) but no.

re: my DD's selective mutism, we have a campus intervention team in place, have had it since Kinder. she has worked with a SLP too who occasionally observes her in the classroom. i have considered getting a therapist for her to help her more, though my concern is that she woudln't talk to a therapist ( she won't even talk to a teacher in public). i have looked on Selective Mutism network whcih therapists speciallize in treating SM, but there aren't any in my city. Iam wondering if i could see a therapist who is SLP, but not sure if that is approrpiate. still looking into this.

I disagree that this sort of behavior is normal for 7-8 years old, i'd put it on another level above just "acting out". My kids do stupid and immature things all the time, but i'd be beyond MORTIFIED if either of my DC was doing this kind of thing to another kid, especially on such a repeated basis. I honestly wish i knew what possesses kids to bully other kids at this age. i thought this nasty mean girl behavior wasn't supposed to start until middle school...

I’d tell the teacher every time DD tells you what this girl does. She can’t speak up for herself and you need to be the one that informs the teacher.

Regarding selective mutism, I’m a school SLP and I am NOT the primary provider. I can be part of the team, but selective mutism is an anxiety disorder in the DSM, and SLPs are not trained to treat the anxiety component and we can do more harm by not knowing how to deal with anxiety. I consult with teachers, help to come up with ways to communicate, but the school psychologist provides therapy and she also refers out to a pediatric clinic.

Please don’t rely on a SLP alone, we’re only one part of the treatment options as this is not a communication disorder. We can’t treat the underlying anxiety component. You need to take her to a child therapist. Ask your Dr for referral to see someone for selective mutism or childhood anxiety.

DSM 5 on selective mutism
https://www.theravive.com/therapedia/selective-mutism-dsm--5-312.23-(f94.0)


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[magnoliaparadise]

Ugh, I'm sorry you are going through this. My one piece of advice is to be very proactive and nip this in the bud like it's your number one priority right now. Especially if your kid already has anxiety, as exhibited in the mutism (mine does not have mutism, but I get the anxiety part). I have experienced this. At 7 my kid kept saying little things that her BFF was doing... I kept disregarding it (I know you're not), mostly because the BFF was *also* a good kid and I was good friends with the mom. And my kid did say positive things sometimes about the friendship. But something seemed off. My kid started not wanting to go to school.

The social worker was completely unhelpful so I ended up going to another social worker at my then-younger daughter's school. I will never forget that that social worker did not skip a beat, saying that from what I was saying, my older kid was being bullied by her BFF. I was like 'whhhaat??' I thought she was so off. But she was right. Kid mistreating each other is insidious. I will just say that it went to the heart of how my kid learned to feel about herself and I feel the repercussions now, 3 years later and several states away (not why we left, but a bonus).

At this point, if I even whiff of a kid doing mean-girl things, I just go directly to the teacher and social worker and write everything down as it's happening. The kids in my kids' class are fine this year so I have not talked to the teacher, but last year, the dynamic repeated itself. A classmate who was friendly and then started just doing awful things, getting kids to talk about mine to each other and refuse to talk to her, etc. I was on top of it and the social worker point blank told me that she will make sure to keep that kid in a different class than mine without my asking

Because of the way this affects self esteem, it's so good you are nipping it in the bud as soon as possible. In my case with the BFF, I'm appalled that I couldn't see it and let it go on as much as I did... I know this is very attenuated, but after my DD1 BFF/bully debacle, I really truly understood the whole 'why women stay with abusive men in domestic violence situations' in a very clear way. My DD1 loved and still loves that BFF. And the friendship started out well. But the even as the good interactions decreased, she still waited and hoped for them, even as the really mean behavior grew. She also was isolated at that time and losing that friendship by reporting her (which she did) was really tough.

Anyway... yes, be in close touch with the teacher and IMHO, I would make a meeting with the teacher and social worker (and your kid if you/they want it). Especially because she has mutism and can't speak up for herself. Good luck with it all!!!!!

[JBaxter]

I agree with the others to call / email the teacher. I'm sure the other child thinks they can get away with this behavior because your child doesn't speak. The teacher needs to be aware of the behaviors. I would have had her in therapy when it started. Private not associated with the school.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

Thanks all! Appreciate all the responses!! I emailed the teacher last night and she told me she would talk with the other student this morning. I got an update from her a little while ago saying she talked with the other student who seemed to recognize whst she was doing was wrong and seemed remorseful. So hopefully that will put an end to that! I am still just baffled as to why this kid was even doing this for so long— in abscence of things like abuse, neglect etc i don’t get why a kid would choose to do this... I thought the whole exclusion, bullying thing didn’t take off until middle school. My dd seemed mystified as well.

Teacher also said she will set up something that dd Can use tonsend her instant messages during class

Also I am looking into getting dd a therapist that specializes in selective mutism.

[mackmama]

Thanks all! Appreciate all the responses!! I emailed the teacher last night and she told me she would talk with the other student this morning. I got an update from her a little while ago saying she talked with the other student who seemed to recognize whst she was doing was wrong and seemed remorseful. So hopefully that will put an end to that! I am still just baffled as to why this kid was even doing this for so long— in abscence of things like abuse, neglect etc i don’t get why a kid would choose to do this... I thought the whole exclusion, bullying thing didn’t take off until middle school. My dd seemed mystified as well.

Teacher also said she will set up something that dd Can use tonsend her instant messages during class

Also I am looking into getting dd a therapist that specializes in selective mutism.

I would urge you to still insist that the kids be separated in all classes for the foreseeable future. From how you describe it, it would not surprise me if this other child acted apologetic to the teacher but continues or escalates the behaviors to your child. Your child would also likely feel less anxious not having this person sitting next to her.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I would urge you to still insist that the kids be separated in all classes for the foreseeable future. From how you describe it, it would not surprise me if this other child acted apologetic to the teacher but continues or escalates the behaviors to your child. Your child would also likely feel less anxious not having this person sitting next to her.

:yeahthat: moving seats is a good idea. :)

[Momit]

Glad the teacher is on top of it and that you are looking into therapy. Our friend’s DS has selective mutism and he has made great progress since starting therapy.

I agree that asking for the girls to not be seated together for the rest of the year is a good idea, and asking that they not be placed in class together in the future.

[doberbrat]

I would also insist they be moved.

And fwiw, there was a boy who was selectively mute in dd1's k class. I remember not hearing him speak 1st or 2nd grade .... and I was in that class at least weekly. Fast forward to 7th grade and he chats nearly as much as any other boy in his grade. I know he was in therapy at school .... guessing private as well but such an amazing turn around.

[ezcc]

I will say that mean girl behavior with my daughters' friends actually peaked at a very young age (around 7 was bad as I recall) and this same group of friends has had pretty smooth sailing through middle school. Not sure if that is typical or not.

[AngB]

I will say that mean girl behavior with my daughters' friends actually peaked at a very young age (around 7 was bad as I recall) and this same group of friends has had pretty smooth sailing through middle school. Not sure if that is typical or not.

I have totally seen 'mean girl' behavior with preschoolers! "You aren't my friend anymore" type junk that was mostly amongst the girls (3 and 4). Not that the boys all got along perfectly but they tend to smack or kick each other and move on.

[jgenie]

I will say that mean girl behavior with my daughters' friends actually peaked at a very young age (around 7 was bad as I recall) and this same group of friends has had pretty smooth sailing through middle school. Not sure if that is typical or not.

The girls here started in Kinder. “We’re not talking to her anymore” and “I don’t know why we have to play with her” etc. I remember thinking it was super early.

[sunshiney]

There should be a sit down and discussion on this...with the teacher too.

[westwoodmom04]

I will say that mean girl behavior with my daughters' friends actually peaked at a very young age (around 7 was bad as I recall) and this same group of friends has had pretty smooth sailing through middle school. Not sure if that is typical or not.

I agree with this, third grade was the most drama filled year for my daughter (she is now in eighth).