Ugh. what am i supposed to do?

[♥ms.pacman♥]

today dd (7) was upset after school. they have pumpkin patch (where kids can buy painted pumpkins) during lunch/recess and DD was upset bc she didn't have enough money for the pumpkin she wanted. she was telling her best friend about (one of maybe 3 friends she talks to) and this friend went to tell her teacher who happened to be on yard duty at the time. he then called dd over and asked her many questions. when DD didn't answer, her friend kept explaining that DD was very shy and didn't talk at school. Teacher got upset with DD and said if she didn't speak, he was going to tell her teacher and make her run ten laps tomorrow.

Um, WTF. First, i get that most teachers dont know of selective mutism, but WHY SAY THAT. why would any teacher want to threaten a student like that, who was OBVIOUSLY acting extremely shy, not being threatening at all. i am hoping he may have been joking ( i can't think of any decent teacher seriously threatening that to a student), but DD insists he was not.

I really hate this attitude here which focuses so much (excessively so, IMO) on formalities and punishment, and shy kids are often seen as disrespectful and somehow insolent. It just seems so 1950s to me.

to top it off, there is an aftercare teacher who for months has constantly threatening to punish DD for not speaking (often telling her she can't earn any of the "tickets" kids typically earn in aftercare for good behavior simply bc she doesn't speak to him). Few weeks ago, he commented to DS, after he mentioned they were leaving to go to swim class, to ask if DD was going as well. My DS answered "yes, [DD] is also going to swim lessons" to which he replied (in earshot of DD) "Oh wow. i'm surprised, i didn't think [DD] could do swimming lessons, because she can't even speak."

UGH. i am not sure what i am supposed to do. we have a campus intervention team in place at school that is her teacher and a SLP but that is it. do i need to tell them to send a mass note to every teacher she interacts with that she has selective mutism and doesn't usually speak, and what to do in emergency situations. i am not asking for special treatment, just not that they threaten her with punishments etc. Right now I can totally understand why DD would never ask a teacher for help with anything, out of fear that she will get in trouble for not speaking.

FWIW, i AM getting DD to see a therapist for her selective mutism, and i have an initial appt next week. I am really hopeful for it. But in the meantime, i need tips on how to best avoid/handle the crappy things teachers often say to her/about her. :(

[georgiegirl]

It sounds like she needs a 504 or IEP so that everyone at the school is aware of her selective mutism and doesn’t “punish” her for not talking. You would think the entire staff should be sensitive, but I guess not.


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[bisous]

It sounds like she needs a 504 or IEP so that everyone at the school is aware of her selective mutism and doesn’t “punish” her for not talking. You would think the entire staff should be sensitive, but I guess not.


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Yes to this! I know you’re starting that whole process but this incident shows that maybe you need to contact the administration immediately and have them notify all the staff and faculty of the school.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

thanks guys. i 'm not sure the difference between 504 and IEP but it sounds like a good idea. it would help avoid many situations. i will have to bring it up with her teacher.

[doberbrat]

so many things wrong with this scenario I dont even know where to start!

Things for sale during lunch/recess? Um, NO!
Threatening a student with physical discipline over not speaking? UM BIG NO!
over a pumpkin sale no less? I mean, speaking as a person who subs daily, not even on the range of things I need to 'discipline' for. If a kid were sad about not having enough $$ for a book sale I'd comfort them. Too upset to talk about it? I"m going to shrug and let them be. Offer support when and if they change their mind.
After school care making snide/belittling comments that can be overheard by other kids? HELL NO.

She NEEDS a 504/IEP in place ASAP. and it specifically needs to address these situations including after care. Its my understanding that the IEP will offer some protections there as well since the care is on school grounds even if it is not run by school staff. although really, thats just unprofessional!

I know we're just getting your side of the story but seriously it seems like she's being bullied by the teachers!!

[ett]

I agree she needs a 504 or IEP, but even without one I can't believe the teachers would "punish" her for not speaking. They should clearly be able to tell that she's not being defiant! I'd be asking to meet with the principal tomorrow morning!

[♥ms.pacman♥]

thanks. i looked it up and it looks like 504 is the way to go for her (IEP seems harder to obtain - looks like she must have one of 13 listed disabilities to qualify).

i don't get it either. i get that most people, evn teachers, are not trained in Selective Mutism but i'm just baffled at how so many immediately react to it with "you must be punished! I will threaten you with punishment if you do not speak to me right now!" it's crazy bc my DD is extremely well-behaved and is obsessed with following rules, and gets very upset when she thinks she is getting in trouble.

[ahisma]

This is so bizarre to me (the adults, not your DD). I have no educational or childhood development experience, but having volunteered in the classroom I cannot imagine taking that approach. Ever. Aren't adults supposed to make children feel comfortable?

A 504 sounds like a great path forward. And really, I'd meet with the principal and ask them to take the lead on educating the *entire staff* on how to interact with your DD.

[westwoodmom04]

thanks. i looked it up and it looks like 504 is the way to go for her (IEP seems harder to obtain - looks like she must have one of 13 listed disabilities to qualify).

i don't get it either. i get that most people, evn teachers, are not trained in Selective Mutism but i'm just baffled at how so many immediately react to it with "you must be punished! I will threaten you with punishment if you do not speak to me right now!" it's crazy bc my DD is extremely well-behaved and is obsessed with following rules, and gets very upset when she thinks she is getting in trouble.


I think many adults erroneously think she can talk if she wants to, and assume it is some kind of power play. I agree with the previous posters that you should request the principal advised the entire school staff about her selective mutism.

[teresah00]

https://adayinourshoes.com/difference-504-iep/

I would want anyone in contact w my kiddo to be aware of how to communicate w them. Wht the teacher said was not ok.

[niccig]

thanks. i looked it up and it looks like 504 is the way to go for her (IEP seems harder to obtain - looks like she must have one of 13 listed disabilities to qualify).



She may qualify for an IEP under OHI - Other Health Impairment once she gets a formal diagnosis of Selective Mutism. Get that outside diagnosis ASAP as it gives you more grounds to push for an IEP or a 504.

You have to get legal protections in place -the campus intervention team of the teacher and the SLP has no legal standing, and they can't enforce it with other staff, they can say whatever they want to you and if they don't do it, you can't enforce the agreement.

You've got to go to the principal or whoever administers special education and ask in writing for an IEP or a 504 based on her selective mutism. No more, "the teacher and the SLP can handle it" - they can't. The school psychologist MUST be involved. Selective Mutism is based in anxiety and is not a communication disorder for the SLP alone to deal with.

Even with an IEP or a 504 your DD could still have this situation happen with a teacher who is unaware of DD or a sub etc. But having the 504 or IEP means you can get help enforcing the agreement. This is also why getting her treatment ASAP is so important, as she gets older she will be dealing with more and more adults who won't know she won't verbally communicate and they could think she's deliberately ignoring them. She needs to become comfortable verbally communicating so she can advocate for herself. Hopefully the therapy goes well - it will take time, but she needs to get help as we know the longer a child is selectively mute, the more reinforcing it becomes.

[niccig]

to top it off, there is an aftercare teacher who for months has constantly threatening to punish DD for not speaking (often telling her she can't earn any of the "tickets" kids typically earn in aftercare for good behavior simply bc she doesn't speak to him). Few weeks ago, he commented to DS, after he mentioned they were leaving to go to swim class, to ask if DD was going as well. My DS answered "yes, [DD] is also going to swim lessons" to which he replied (in earshot of DD) "Oh wow. i'm surprised, i didn't think [DD] could do swimming lessons, because she can't even speak."

FWIW, i AM getting DD to see a therapist for her selective mutism, and i have an initial appt next week. I am really hopeful for it. But in the meantime, i need tips on how to best avoid/handle the crappy things teachers often say to her/about her. :(

Have you spoken with whoever is in charge of aftercare to tell them she's selectively mute and that this teacher MUST stop threatening to not give her tickets for not speaking?

You handle the comments from the teachers by calling them out on it, going to the administration and telling them what is happening and that they need to stop it immediately. Your DD and DS are telling you this happens, so you get on the phone/email immediately to bring it to someone's attention.

[JBaxter]

It sounds like she needs a 504 or IEP so that everyone at the school is aware of her selective mutism and doesn’t “punish” her for not talking. You would think the entire staff should be sensitive, but I guess not.


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Yes you need to get a 504 but do you have an official diagnosis from a medical professional? I know you were talking about looking for a therapist. I know a year before we had an ADHD diagnosis for DS4 his teacher would offer the same accommodations as other kids with ADHD but didn't have too. Other staff often wouldn't.

[bisous]

Have you spoken with whoever is in charge of aftercare to tell them she's selectively mute and that this teacher MUST stop threatening to not give her tickets for not speaking?

You handle the comments from the teachers by calling them out on it, going to the administration and telling them what is happening and that they need to stop it immediately. Your DD and DS are telling you this happens, so you get on the phone/email immediately to bring it to someone's attention.

This kind of advocating is really essential! Call them each and every time. Your DD can't speak and needs you to protect her by contacting the adults in charge.

[MSWR0319]

Yes to the 504 or IEP if she qualifies for that. In the 504, you will want to have a statement that says "Entire staff (including aftercare staff) will be advised of DD's condition and instructed on how to interact with her" or something of that nature. If the staff isn't trained or things like this happen again, you have some stance on how the school reacts the next time, as it would then be a 504 violation. You have to be your daughter's advocate and can't expect that they know anything about her condition, unless of course you have already told them. Even with a 504 there may be issues, but then you can go to the school and have more of a legal standing. My son has a 504 for constipation/bladder issues and a food allergy. He was being made to use a bathroom pass to limit his visits like the rest of the kids despite him having open bathroom privileges. One quick conversation with the principal and that pass was in the trash can. Had I not had the 504, I am fairly sure it wouldn't have been that easy.

ETA: Forgot to add that I have a friend who's 3 children have all had selective mutism. Her youngest is going through it right now and I know they have weekly/monthly meetings with the teacher and anyone that comes into contact with her so they know how things are going. She has a 504 and I believe they do some sensory therapy to help ease her anxiety during the day. She told me that it's really helping her. For her kids, once they are able to start anxiety meds it really is a game changer. They do therapy as well. The older ones were able to wean off of their meds, but needed them for a few years.

[hbridge]

You need to call a meeting as soon as possible with the teacher and the principal. Bring any documentation of your child's condition. If you have discussed it with the pediatrician, have them write a letter. EVERY staff member who comes in contact with your child needs to know about her mutism. In my experience, school staff are very quick to assume that a child is being disrespectful, underlying causes are not often the first thing a staff member considers.

Make sure you child knows that she is not in trouble and she is not at fault.

[amyx4]

In my town, the aftercare program pays the high school athletes to teach the sports. So, the football players would teach flag football. The soccer players would teach soccer, etc. The afterprogram changes sports ever few weeks. My teens get hired for about 6 weeks each school year.

My teens have told me numerous times that they have a "hunch" that a student may have a learning disability. Not once has the aftercare director ever told my teens if a student is on a 504 or IEP. I don't know what causes the breakdown in communication but I know that my teens would do better knowing than not knowing.

[lizzywednesday]

It sounds like she needs a 504 or IEP so that everyone at the school is aware of her selective mutism and doesn’t “punish” her for not talking. ...

:yeahthat:

It's for her own protection, really.

I know OP you said that you don't want "special treatment" but she needs something other than a quiet word with her homeroom teacher or whatever to help her out.

Is this really any different from a child with ADHD who needs a certain kind of structure in the classroom or a child with dyslexia who needs extra help with reading? No.

[anonomom]

I don't have any experience with IEPs or 504s, but it seems like you're getting good advice on that front.

It sounds to me like you need to have a very pointed talk with the principal. Even if your DD doesn't have a 504 or didn't have selective mutism, it seems like the teachers at your school are dealing inappropriately with a young child, and that its happening regularly. It's not ok to denigrate a child. It's not ok to punish a child for matters beyond her control. You shouldn't have to invoke federal law to get them to stop mistreating your kid.

[marinkitty]

Good advice about the 504 - and it becomes increasingly important as they get older.

From experience with a different but similarly misunderstood issue, you HAVE to go directly to each teacher as these things happen. Even with a 504 in place (now, after learning we needed it) I'm always so surprised (1) how little is communicated to the teachers and (2) even when it is, how little they understand what it actually means. And also, even if she didn't have selective mutism, the comment made about the swimming was degrading and NOT okay for a teacher to say in any situation. I found after being very hands on that once the administration was aware that I was not going to let things pass and the teachers were truly clued in about the situation - my DD no longer had these types of issues. People thought before they spoke and reached out to us rather than trying to muddle through with her on their own. VAST improvement. Good luck!

[specialp]

You handle the comments from the teachers by calling them out on it, going to the administration and telling them what is happening and that they need to stop it immediately. Your DD and DS are telling you this happens, so you get on the phone/email immediately to bring it to someone's attention.


This kind of advocating is really essential! Call them each and every time. Your DD can't speak and needs you to protect her by contacting the adults in charge.


^ Yes. Each and every time so it isn't going on for weeks and whether the issue is coming from a peer or a teacher. You have to address it. DD doesn't have the tool. It's not that she won't communicate, but she literally can't (due to anxiety, not ability). I do think each and every person who is likely to need to communicate with her needs to be aware.

I'm sorry she's dealing with this. That's got to be tough on a rule follower. What a great friend she has!

[niccig]

ms.pacman[emoji813];4313534]i am not asking for special treatment

You need to. Your DD is selectively mute, you must ask for special treatment to get her the help and accommodations she needs at school.

I may be wrong, but it feels like you don’t want to make waves at school and you’re hoping that with enough time, DD will start to talk at school. It’s already been some time, I think I remember you saying it’s been since K, so it’s 2 years and there’s no change, but the situation has gotten worse at school - you’ve posted about a peer targeting your DD and now a teacher and an after school staff member not understanding she can’t verbally respond at school.

It’s time to make it official and get the specialist help at school as well as seeing therapist outside of school.




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[legaleagle]

You need to. Your DD is selectively mute, you must ask for special treatment to get her the help and accommodations she needs at school.


We have different issues (ADHD and related stuff) but our school seemed really really happy to get an official 504 in place once we had an official diagnosis though they had been making more informal accommodations anyway. I know the feeling of not wanting to rock the boat but your daughter needs you to speak up for her, literally and figuratively. Intervening before she grows to hate & fear school really is critical.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I think once you start the treatment for her real issue you’ll have a better understanding of how to work with her and the school. First though is to refer to it as anxiety (or the term your care provider prefers) vs being shy. You seem upset at others for not appreciating shy kids but shyness isn’t the problem. A good care provider will help you label it in a way that will best help dd’s true self shine. :)


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[bisous]

I think once you start the treatment for her real issue you’ll have a better understanding of how to work with her and the school. First though is to refer to it as anxiety (or the term your care provider prefers) vs being shy. You seem upset at others for not appreciating shy kids but shyness isn’t the problem. A good care provider will help you label it in a way that will best help dd’s true self shine. :)


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I think this is really well said. Good luck OP. I know you can make it much better for your DD!

[AngB]

I totally agree with the others about getting either a 504 plan or IEP.

IF you can get an IEP, which may be a longshot, (you would also have to show that it affects her learning, I believe- but I'm not a sped teacher), that would actually be better as it is more enforceable and easier to hold the school accountable.

A 504 plan would definitely be better then nothing, though, and would be easier to get.

You can always try to get a 504 plan for the immediate time being and work on getting her evaluated for an IEP in the meantime.

ETA: I just googled IEP for selective mutism and came up with this link which looks like it has some helpful suggestions for the IEP process. It does look like they recommend getting her an IEP, and having it as an "OHI- other health impaired" diagnosis.
https://www.selectivemutism.org/wp-content/uploads/2016/06/IEP-Classifications.pdf

In my experience as a teacher, schools take IEP's more seriously then 504's, so I do think if you can get one, that is the way I would go.