Friend who doesn't include one of my kids - WWYD?

[magnoliaparadise]

Do you have family friends who want to get together with you and one kid, but not the other, based upon their own family? Wondering if this is common or what others do.

This is the issue: I have an old friend (I'll call her Julie) who has one child. That child (11) is verrrrry put together and seems to sail through life (competent, gifted, well spoken, model-beautiful, resilient after lots of school changes, has many friends). IMHO, Julie views this as due to her own parenting more than I would, but that's partly because having more than one kid makes me believe that DNA shapes kids at least as much as parenting :)

One day, years ago, Julie talked about how put together her kid was (this was in a context, not exactly out and out bragging) and told me that she goes out of her way to eliminate friendships that don't absolutely support the growth/happiness of her kid, even if she likes/is friends with the parent... that comment stuck with me through the years because it seemed so... ungenerous... meaning, I have some old friends and relatives whose kids are struggling, but I love them, we still see them as a family, and it wouldn't occur to me to cut them off! (Nor could I emotionally afford it!) And also, I am OK with my kids knowing that there are different types of kids out there, some of whom they have to spend time with whom they might not love or are working on things. And we are all working on things!

Anyway, this is my issue: We moved to this state more than a year ago and since we have always kept in touch with Julie/her kid (and seen them when in town frequently), I thought we would become even closer. Last Fall, we went over to Julie's house and I remember her commenting that my youngest (now 7 yo) was a pistol. I get this comment a lot, as praise, so didn't think anything of it. I remember that my DD2 was desperately trying to be included with DD1 (now 10 year old) and Julie's (now) 11 year old daughter and doing funny skits so that the two big girls would give her attention and include her. It was loud and a bit chaotic, but DD2 behaved well. No upsets or temper tantrums.

After that night, Julie did not seem to want to get together again. I finally (very nicely) called her on it and asked if my kids or I had upset her. Julie said that she hadn't really thought about it until that moment, but that she really just wanted her DD and my DD1 to spend time together and not have my younger DD get in the way of their growing closeness.

I said ok and we made plans to have Julie's DD and my DD1 have a couple playdates.

Time went by and we both got busy. About 8 months later, I asked Julie if she wanted to get together with us (as families) and she was a bit resistant so I (stupidly) asked if she wanted me to get DD2 a playdate elsewhere. Julie instantly said "YES, let's do it a big girl night with just the two of us and our big girl tweens."

OK, so that was totally my bad since I suggested it! I take full responsibility. (We didn't end up going because my DD1 got sick). But now... I feel like I can ONLY suggest plans with Julie as a family if I somehow exclude DD2! I don't get the vibe that Julie wants to get together with her included. That's not cool to me.

I have NO issue making sure my DD1 and Julie's DD get together without my youngest. I'm HAPPY to support that friendship without DD2! My issue is that if Julie and I join as families with our kids, DD2 should be included.

This is all exacerbated by the fact that we don't have our own house (living with relatives for now) so I can't invite Julie and her kid over. That would be easier.

I should add that DD2, while spirited and true, desiring to be the center of attention, is a neuro-typical kid and very well liked by other kids and adults. She is pretty put together and competent, especially for her age, maybe because she has an older sister and so many older cousins. I am wondering if Julie doesn't like her, but honestly, I can't understand why or what conspired, especially because I was there the last time Julie was with my kid. If I felt my kid was misbehaving with Julie, was difficult, or did something to anger her, I would acknowledge it in this post! I just don't.

Have you ever been in this situation where it feels like one of your kids is being sidelined?

Would Julie's behavior annoy or upset you? Or is it fair (and/or common) to want to get together with a family and not one kid?

What would you do?

[magnoliaparadise]

A quick addition to my post:

After writing this, I think that from now on, I will get together with this family in all these ways:

1) Just my DD1 and Julie's DD alone;
2) or just me and Julie sans kids (Julie does not seem to want to do this :();
3) or all of us as two families, including my DD2

But I will *not* get together as two family units without DD2. That's what feels weird.

[ellies mom]

I would allow the two older girls to get together without the youngest to do tween things or whatever. But family activities are family activities and I’m not going to exclude the youngest because a friend doesn’t get how great the stereotypical second child can be. And in all honesty, her attitude towards my second child would put a damper on the friendship. I would probably only encourage the older kids to hang out if they actually wanted too not just because my oldest passed some sort of test.


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[jgenie]

We have a similar situation with an only child friend. My DS2 is quite rambunctious. When the older boys were younger he fit right in but now that the olders have settled a bit the energy level of DS2 is noticeable. My friend will offer to take DS1 along with them places or invite DS1 over for play dates. I’m fine with it but they don’t generally come to mind when we do family things because I don’t want DS2 to feel excluded.

[SnuggleBuggles]

To me, your situation is complicated by being a single parent. Our family splits up a lot to do things (mostly due to scheduling but sometimes interest) so it’d be no big deal to just get part of the crew together. If Julie is married, she might not get it. Your family unit travels as one since it’s a lot harder to naturally break off. I think things will be so much easier when you move out too. You’ll have a better way to see how the chips really are falling if there’s resistance to coming to you for a visit. I think it’s fine though for some kids to want to just hang out together vs including little siblings. In this scenario, I might just give up on your families being buddy buddy and just support the older girl’s friendship.


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[klwa]

A quick addition to my post:

After writing this, I think that from now on, I will together with this family in all these ways:

1) Just my DD1 and Julie's DD alone;
2) or just me and my friend sans kids (Julie does not seem to want to do this :();
3) or all of us as two families, including my DD2

But I will *not* get together as two family units without DD2. That's what feels weird.

This is pretty much what I was thinking as I read the first post. You & Julie are friends. DD1 & JD are friends. Let those friendships be what they are. But don't force DD2 to the sidelines just because of Julie's reaction. If she's resistant, then just say "Oh, well, maybe a different time will work better." and make sure she knows you won't exclude the younger kid from family fun days.

[123LuckyMom]

Honestly, I don’t think Julie dislikes your DD2. It’s not unusual for big kids to somewhat resent having to entertain younger kids, and an only child whose friendships have been carefully cultivated would feel that even more so and not have developed the attitude that sometimes it’s the right thing to do to make sacrifices to include others and be kind. I bet you the desire to not have the younger child around is coming from Julie’s daughter. The impulse is understandable, but I absolutely agree with you that your DD2 should not ever be purposely excluded from family events. Do make sure the older girls get lots of big girl time together, but when it’s a family thing, DD2 needs to be part of the mix! I would try to get together outside of Julie’s home on those occasions if possible, and I also wouldn’t hesitate to say something to Julie like, “I know it’s not the same for the big girls when they have to find ways to include DD2 in their play, but they get lots of time together without a younger kid, and I can’t exclude my DD2 from family time, because I don’t think that would be sending the right message to either of my girls. I want both my girls to learn how to include one another in their play and be willing to sacrifice a tiny bit of their own pleasure to be kind to the other. I hope that will help them learn to do that in the wider world.”


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[magnoliaparadise]

I would allow the two older girls to get together without the youngest to do tween things or whatever. But family activities are family activities and I’m not going to exclude the youngest because a friend doesn’t get how great the stereotypical second child can be. And in all honesty, her attitude towards my second child would put a damper on the friendship. I would probably only encourage the older kids to hang out if they actually wanted too not just because my oldest passed some sort of test.


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Thanks. It's true that her attitude about DD2 (or at least her attitude excluding DD2) IS dampering my view of the friendship, but I'm trying to keep an open mind both because this is an old friend whom I really really like and because frankly, we are so new in the area, that we as a family all really need to nurture our friendships and increase them.

[magnoliaparadise]

We have a similar situation with an only child friend. My DS2 is quite rambunctious. When the older boys were younger he fit right in but now that the olders have settled a bit the energy level of DS2 is noticeable. My friend will offer to take DS1 along with them places or invite DS1 over for play dates. I’m fine with it but they don’t generally come to mind when we do family things because I don’t want DS2 to feel excluded.

Interesting. I can see this. My tween is more tween-like and would like nothing more than to be left alone with Julie's DD to play on an iphone or listen to music, together. My DD2, on the other hand, loves playing and running around. So I can see how this would affect everyone involved.

[magnoliaparadise]

To me, your situation is complicated by being a single parent. Our family splits up a lot to do things (mostly due to scheduling but sometimes interest) so it’d be no big deal to just get part of the crew together. If Julie is married, she might not get it. Your family unit travels as one since it’s a lot harder to naturally break off. I think things will be so much easier when you move out too. You’ll have a better way to see how the chips really are falling if there’s resistance to coming to you for a visit. I think it’s fine though for some kids to want to just hang out together vs including little siblings. In this scenario, I might just give up on your families being buddy buddy and just support the older girl’s friendship.


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Julie is also a single parent. I agree with you, though, that married couples would react differently and if Julie were married, that would change this scenario. I don't think she would exclude my DD2. Generally, I find that married couples don't like hanging out with my family as a family (most usually just split up when we get together so that the mom and kids meet up with my family and the dad does his own stuff/errands/etc, which I totally understand).

I also think bigger families split up more, which makes sense. My small family of three does not split up as much as others, unless one or both of the kids are off with their grandparent(s). But as far as our nuclear me-and-two-kid family, we rarely split besides classes, parties, playdates.

YES, you said it perfectly about how good it will be when I move into my own home and can invite Julie's family and "have a better way to see how the chips really are falling if there’s resistance to coming to you for a visit." It will be anxiety-provoking, but telling. If Julie doesn't want to visit at that point, I have to decrease my expectations for our friendship, at least as families.

[magnoliaparadise]

This is pretty much what I was thinking as I read the first post. You & Julie are friends. DD1 & JD are friends. Let those friendships be what they are. But don't force DD2 to the sidelines just because of Julie's reaction. If she's resistant, then just say "Oh, well, maybe a different time will work better." and make sure she knows you won't exclude the younger kid from family fun days.

I like that response. Honestly, I don't know if Julie will then ever get together as two families, which would be a loss, but at least I haven't excluded my DD2 and I'll feel more ok about the whole thing.

[magnoliaparadise]

Honestly, I don’t think Julie dislikes your DD2. It’s not unusual for big kids to somewhat resent having to entertain younger kids, and an only child whose friendships have been carefully cultivated would feel that even more so and not have developed the attitude that sometimes it’s the right thing to do to make sacrifices to include others and be kind. I bet you the desire to not have the younger child around is coming from Julie’s daughter. The impulse is understandable, but I absolutely agree with you that your DD2 should not ever be purposely excluded from family events. Do make sure the older girls get lots of big girl time together, but when it’s a family thing, DD2 needs to be part of the mix! I would try to get together outside of Julie’s home on those occasions if possible, and I also wouldn’t hesitate to say something to Julie like, “I know it’s not the same for the big girls when they have to find ways to include DD2 in their play, but they get lots of time together without a younger kid, and I can’t exclude my DD2 from family time, because I don’t think that would be sending the right message to either of my girls. I want both my girls to learn how to include one another in their play and be willing to sacrifice a tiny bit of their own pleasure to be kind to the other. I hope that will help them learn to do that in the wider world.”


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I LOVE the words you have written to say. Thank you for them. I'm not sure I'd be able to say them so eloquently, but I will keep looking at them and maybe even can just use some of that language in a text.

[Globetrotter]

Julie’s general attitude bugs me because it sounds like she thinks her kid is perfect. Not only that, at times all of our kids act up and as friends we have to support each other through those changes. I’m not saying that you should force your kid to be friends with someone they dislike And sometimes friendships just don’t work out, but to weed out anyone different in such a systematic way.. that doesn’t Sit well with me.
As for not including your younger one, that could very well be her kid’s Choice. It’s hard to combine tweens with active younger siblings. At times I too have requested drop off play dates with just the older siblings because otherwise I end up having to babysit the younger ones. And the whole environment changes. Now in your case I would give you a pass because you are a single parent, but maybe Julie isn’t aware enough to think of that. You could mention it to her…

[khm]

I think some people are just crazy sensitive to (normal) low-level kid-chaos. I kind of fall in this boat, honestly, and I don't even have an only! The chaos of having extra kids in my space is just HARD for me even if they are having fun and are well behaved. Julie has one low-key kid. She doesn't have the dynamic of a sibling with that low-key kid.

I'm wondering if both she and the kid are just slightly overwhelmed when DD2 is there, to no fault of DD2. I don't think Julie gets a pass to be rude, but I think she might just be hardwired to have a hard-time with multiple kids in her space. Her kid might also just not enjoy a younger kid clamoring for their attention, as it is very far out of her experience.

Julie doesn't have the insight into how radically different a kid2 can be from a kid1, but you also don't have the insight into how having a DD2 has allowed your bandwidth to gradually expand to accept your normal of having 2 kids. If you did only have DD1, someone like DD2 might overwhelm you in your space too. Does that make sense? The same evening can feel different to each of you because of your different realities.

I think when you have your own place, the older girls can do their thing and the younger can have a friend of hers over and it'll be fine. :)

[Globetrotter]

Oh I didn’t realize she was singie. I agree with PP that Julie isn’t used to having a second younger kid around and possibly her kid also doesn’t like the dynamic, But I agree that when you are meeting as a family that needs to be all five of you together.

[gymnbomb]

My question was does Julie view this as "family" time or as "moms and tweens" time? For her those things look the same if it's just the two of them, but for you they are different.

[trcy]

I don't know, I guess I may be over sensitive, but if I were in your shoes I would distance myself from Julie. I am not saying that's what I think you should do, but what I would do if I were in your situation. At one point before DD was dx with ADHD, I was really struggling. A friend made a comment about DD's behavior and it honestly felt like a kick in the gut when I was already down. Her kid seemed absolutely perfect and I felt like a total failure. I distanced myself from that friendship. Fast forward a few years, her kid isn't perfect and she isn't so judgemental about my kid and we have become closer again. I never said anything about her comments. DD is still a handful, but things are better. But I don't need that kind of negativity in my life and I am not going to exclude her from family activities because she doesn't fit into someone's perfect plan. Kids aren't dumb, they can pick up when someone doesn't want them around. It's bad enough when it comes from other kids, but an adult? Unacceptable!
Ok, off my soapbox now.

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[ged]

For me, as a single mom with 2 girls (8,13), I don't view playdates/get-togethers with anyone as family time. Family time is me and my two girls. All other gatherings are just that, and usually with multiple permutations of who is where and with whom. There is only one friend family of mine in which both my girls have a good fit to play with, so to speak. But usually, they get split up, and sometimes, if I'm lucky, I get my own downtime! Perhaps you can try to find a good playmate for DD2 (from school, for example), and that way you may feel a little less concerned. And another "yes" to it being easier when you have your own place. I lived with my parents for 3 years and it was hard to have anyone over. Now, I can invite friends of either, and then the one "left out" is still fine in her own space.

[AngB]

Julie’s general attitude bugs me because it sounds like she thinks her kid is perfect. Not only that, at times all of our kids act up and as friends we have to support each other through those changes. I’m not saying that you should force your kid to be friends with someone they dislike And sometimes friendships just don’t work out, but to weed out anyone different in such a systematic way.. that doesn’t Sit well with me.


Agreed! Honestly Julie doesn't sound like someone I would make much of an effort to maintain a friendship with anyway.

[newnana]

You & Julie are friends. DD1 & JD are friends. Let those friendships be what they are.
I agree with this.

we have one DD. One of DD's best friends is one of 2 and the mom always asks me if she can have another friend over for her DD2. She has always done this and I think it's brilliant and would have never occurred to me because we adore her younger DD as well. Odd numbers can be tricky for kids (and some adults) to navigate, especially with different ages/interests.

We have another set of friends who have an older DD and when we have family get togethers encourage their older DD to bring a friend so she isn't bored. We love their older DD too but want to make sure she's comfortable and entertained to keep it more fun for everyone.

Maybe give it another go with another friend their to occupy DD2? Worth a shot