How to word this...sports carpool dad stopping at Starbucks Upd Post 138

[jacksmomtobe]

The Dad driving my daughter’s sports carpool tomorrow night has developed a habit of taking the girls to Starbucks after practices. Practice ends at 9pm and the facility is about 25 min away with no traffic. Last time he drove, my daughter didn’t get home till past 10. My daughter is a 12 yr old 7th grader who is very conscious about getting enough sleep each night to the point where it sometimes makes her anxious and then she can’t sleep. She is also is the only one who has another late practice the following night. In the fall when they practiced outside and practice ended earlier I didn’t love the stopping at Starbucks but let it go. The getting the girls home unnecessarily late mid way through the school week is an issue to me. I don’t think the 3rd set if parents in the carpool know anything about these stops and the gist I get from their daughter is that they wouldn’t approve at all. I think the dad’s daughter is the only one who really wants Starbucks. I think the other two would prefer to get home earlier. A very rough draft:

Dear Dad V,

Thanks for driving this week. It has been very accommodating of you to take the girls to Starbucks after practices. With the current late practices C is eager to get home as she is very conscious of getting enough sleep especially where she has 2 relatively late nights in a row. I would appreciate it if you could skip these stops to get her home as early as possible. I hope the other girls won’t be disappointed.

Best
C’s Mom

I would appreciate any input or ideas on how to better get my request across. I do not know these parents well. Their daughter now goes to the same ms as dd but went to a different elementary school. They are new to the club this year and my daughter doesn’t play on the same team as theirs but both teams in the age group holds practices at the same time. We only carpool as we come from the same city and if my ds didn’t have potential conflicts with his sports schedule I would just take dd on my own.

[elbenn]

I was going to suggest that you ask him if he will be doing a Starbucks run and if so, you would just pick up your DD yourself to make sure she gets home a little earlier, however, it sounds like that might not be an option due to conflicting schedules. If so, maybe ask him if it would be at all possible to be home by 9:30 since she has homework or whatever and see how he responds?

[TwinFoxes]

How long are these Starbucks runs? I would probably be irritated too (and honestly if I were the dad I'd just want to get home), but if I really needed a carpool I'd probably let a 10 minute stop slide.

I would skip the "it's been very accommodating line" and get to the point, but I hate emails where I'm trying to figure out where it's going.

I hope it works out. I feel bad for your DD. What if she spoke up and said "Can we skip Starbucks tonight? I'm really tired." I think it would be more effective.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I was going to suggest that you ask him if he will be doing a Starbucks run and if so, you would just pick up your DD yourself to make sure she gets home a little earlier, however, it sounds like that might not be an option due to conflicting schedules. If so, maybe ask him if it would be at all possible to be home by 9:30 since she has homework or whatever and see how he responds?

:yeahthat:I don't really like your wording, OP. I think you are better off leaving the extra stop out of it and just asking to have her home close to 9:30 so she can finish her homework.
Maybe you can find transportation for ds instead?

[fauve01]

If picking your DD up isn't an option, I would ask the Dad to please drop your daughter off before the Starbucks run. I wouldn't bother to explain why, because it sounds like he wouldn't understand/care. "Dear Dad: Thanks for picking DD up later tonight. If you are planning to stop at Starbucks again, please drop DD off at home before you go there. Thanks!"

Really, I would try to arrange schedules so I could just pick her up myself.

[jacksmomtobe]

Ds doesn’t currently have a conflict right now but in the spring could potentially which is why I stick with the carpool. I could pick DD up but then would feel weird not offering to take all the girls home. When I drive I typically stay in the area as the drive there is 45 min to an hour so if I was picking up dd it would seem weird not to offer a ride to the rest since then the dad driving there could just come home after dropping them off. I will ask DD if she would bring ok asking not to stop. She probably would be ok with that but the other girl may make a big deal out if it.

[megs4413]

I've not done any sports carpooling, so maybe this is very typical, BUT

if carpooling isn't working for you, I'd find a way to drive her yourself. It seems like you're needing to choose the option that works best for your family and being in control of when she gets home sounds like it's most important.

[essnce629]

I hope it works out. I feel bad for your DD. What if she spoke up and said "Can we skip Starbucks tonight? I'm really tired." I think it would be more effective.

I think this is the best option since she's in middle school and should be learning to advocate for herself. If she was 8 then I would agree with you stepping in.

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[trcy]

Ds doesn’t currently have a conflict right now but in the spring could potentially which is why I stick with the carpool. I could pick DD up but then would feel weird not offering to take all the girls home. When I drive I typically stay in the area as the drive there is 45 min to an hour so if I was picking up dd it would seem weird not to offer a ride to the rest since then the dad driving there could just come home after dropping them off. I will ask DD if she would bring ok asking not to stop. She probably would be ok with that but the other girl may make a big deal out if it.What if you just did the carpool ride home for now and revisit the arrangement if there will be a conflict in the spring?

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[lil_acorn]

could you confirm the other parents also aren't on board with this so you could get a majority on this request?

[khm]

Does practice end promptly at 9? At that age, a lot of my kids' practices just don't end when they say they will end. Your DD might be adding all the time to Starbucks, but in reality they didn't leave the facility until 9:15 - 9:20 anyways?

How long does the Starbucks run add? I guess if we're talking 10 minutes or whatever, I don't think it's worth it to potentially have him decide to pursue different carpoolers next season.

I don't get why he doesn't run and get it during practice, but I can't think of a way to ask him to do that!

[Dayzy]

Maybe ask nicely if the dad could pick up the starbucks for his daughter and have it waiting for her when practice is over? It seems crazy to me that a starbucks stop takes half an hour for a 25 minute trip to last more than an hour.

[petesgirl]

:yeahthat:I don't really like your wording, OP. I think you are better off leaving the extra stop out of it and just asking to have her home close to 9:30 so she can finish her homework.
Maybe you can find transportation for ds instead?

I agree. Has your DD spoken up or is she nervous to say something?

[Melaine]

My daughters wouldn't feel comfortable asking an adult to forgo a coffee stop so they could get home earlier. I would say you should just ask him if he is planning on any stops after practice and if so you'd prefer to pick up your DD yourself so she can get home to bed.

Is he buying starbucks for a carfull of kids? That would be kind of expensive?!

[elbenn]

I don't get why he doesn't run and get it during practice, but I can't think of a way to ask him to do that!

If each girl is buying Starbucks, that's probably why he waits. Maybe you could mention that it's too late to drink caffeine/sweets for your DD (and the other girl if she feels the same) so he is welcome to get it just for his daughter. He might be thinking he's doing everyone a favor by waiting so they can buy something also.

[squimp]

I can totally relate and my DD would be the same way. Our practice ends at 9 and if we get a treat after I pick it up beforehand.

Does it really add a half hour or are there just many other kids to drop off?

I would try to talk in person (where you can smile and look people in the eye, much harder to stew over words), if you must send an email, just be really low key.

Thanks so much for driving and for the Sbux treat, but since practice ends so late, is it possible to bring DD straight home after practice? She really needs her sleep. Thanks, DD's tired mom

[mom2binsd]

I'll come at it from a single parent with two kids in travel sports, one of which is a team that practices an hour each way from home (highway driving). I rely on our carpool a lot, we each drive once a week (there are 3 boys).

Most practices don't end right at the end time usually, water bottles to empty/chalk talk/bathrooms, whatever. I'd be curious to know where the Starbucks is on the ride home (it may not be as easy to go during the practice/maybe he likes to watch practice, it may not be convenient to take your DD home first and then go. Maybe he wants to treat the other girls? Is he dropping your DD off last? Is this his "fun" thing to do, some parents just like to do this little social thing with their kids.

I am of the mind that if someone is doing me a favor I'm ok with a minor delay. My DS is also in 7th grade and on his hockey nights (3xweek) he gets home between 9:15 and 10:15 depending on the night and practice time. He's ok with it, has minimal homework if any and isn't worried about the late arrival at home.

If we're talking about a difference of really 20 min overall I'm not sure I'd say anything.

You need to figure out what is important to you and your DD, if it's really stressing her out then opt out, rather than asking him to alter his drive home. She's getting to the age that this kind of thing will be happening more and more. Kids who play sports go to bed later etc.

[TwinFoxes]

Reading most of these responses, I really think OP should just not be in the carpool. Everyone's trying hard to come up with a wording that's polite. But no matter what it just seems weird to tell someone who's doing you a favor that they're not doing it right.

[Dream]

If this dad is doing the carpool to help out I would not ask him to change his route to my DDs benefit. If I don't like the arrangement I'll pick her up my self, I feel its not my place to tell someone what to do when they're actually doing you a favor. Can you find out whether other parents are ok with this stop?

[jgenie]

I think you just have to grin and bear it or find alternate transportation.

[JamiMac]

I would not say anything at her age, especially if it wasn't every single time. If it bothers you that much, then pick her up on the nights that he drives. If you're in a 3 family rotation, it can't be that often. I look at carpools as a complete convenience though. If I wasn't in the carpool, I'd be doing all the driving anyway. I'd just let it slide. It sounds like he's doing something nice for them and teenage girls love Starbucks! I do think it will get expensive though. Maybe he'll just taper off on his own?

[bisous]

I can totally relate and my DD would be the same way. Our practice ends at 9 and if we get a treat after I pick it up beforehand.

Does it really add a half hour or are there just many other kids to drop off?

I would try to talk in person (where you can smile and look people in the eye, much harder to stew over words), if you must send an email, just be really low key.

Thanks so much for driving and for the Sbux treat, but since practice ends so late, is it possible to bring DD straight home after practice? She really needs her sleep. Thanks, DD's tired mom

I agree with this post. It’s how I would handle it.

It is SO weird to me that a parent would bring kids to Starbucks that late at night. Also agree with the poster who’s kids wouldn’t say anything to an adult.

And can I get clarity on this situation? This is a carpool. Do you drive any of the legs? Or does your DD just get a ride for “free”. If you’re part of the calculus then you have a right to make requests about the carpool (not to impose an iron will but surely to express your preferences. If you’re just tagging along, I think it’s fair game to request but in a casual way as Squimp says here and you can’t really expect the behavior to change.

I’m so out of step with the other parents on this board about carpooling though!

[California]

I’d just write:
“hey John Doe, DD is at an age where she really needs her sleep at night or she’s stressed out the next morning. If you are going to Starbucks tomorrow, would you mind dropping DD off first? Thank you- and thank you for driving! signed tired mom of a busy tween :-)”

[bisous]

I’d just write:
“hey John Doe, DD is at an age where she really needs her sleep at night or she’s stressed out the next morning. If you are going to Starbucks tomorrow, would you mind dropping DD off first? Thank you- and thank you for driving! signed tired mom of a busy tween :-)”

I like this too.

[TwinFoxes]

I’d just write:
“hey John Doe, DD is at an age where she really needs her sleep at night or she’s stressed out the next morning. If you are going to Starbucks tomorrow, would you mind dropping DD off first? Thank you- and thank you for driving! signed tired mom of a busy tween :-)”

Of all of the suggestions, I like this wording the best, except I would drop that "she's at an age" because presumably his daughter is the same age. I think "DD really needs her sleep or she's stressed out the next morning..." I'd sign it mom of a sleepy tween. :)

I think what's good about this is you're not asking him to stop, you're just asking that your DD not go.

[athompson]

I will be completely honest with you and say that I think you either take it or leave it when carpooling. If you don't want him to take her to Starbucks, then bring her home on your own. My children are 10, 12 and 14 and I would have probably said something like you are thinking when they were 8, 10 and 12. It does not go over well. Trust me. Don't be me;)

[smilequeen]

I’d just write:
“hey John Doe, DD is at an age where she really needs her sleep at night or she’s stressed out the next morning. If you are going to Starbucks tomorrow, would you mind dropping DD off first? Thank you- and thank you for driving! signed tired mom of a busy tween :-)”

This is probably best if you have to say something. I wouldn’t say anything if I appreciated the favor being done as it can’t add more than 10, maybe 15 minutes. I mean, I get it, my 6th grade needs his sleep too but we signed up for a sport that has later practices and it can be rough. He knows how to handle it (homework right after school, snack in the car, everything is ready for the next day so he can sleep a bit later) but it isn’t ideal.

[essnce629]

My daughters wouldn't feel comfortable asking an adult to forgo a coffee stop so they could get home earlier. I would say you should just ask him if he is planning on any stops after practice and if so you'd prefer to pick up your DD yourself so she can get home to bed.

I was thinking her DD would speak with the dad's DD who is her peer. Then the DD could ask her dad not to stop after practice.

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[DualvansMommy]

I don’t know. I’m not there yet with older kids and late practices, but you did sign up for those sports knowing practice end late.

It’s kinda of roll with it scenario, and especially if that carpool you have going saves you from additional logistics, I wouldn’t say anything. You have to decide if the late night Starbucks run is big enough of an issue for you to tell the dad, thanks but I’ll take over collecting DD myself.




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[georgiegirl]

I feel your pain. My DD (12.5) has swim practice late pretty much every night. I’d be very annoyed if the mom/dad who does pick up stopped at Starbucks on the way home. Sometimes they will stop somewhere special on a weekend. And I think sometimes they stop to pick up another child from ballet, but DD is usually back around 9:30 if practice ends at 9. (15 min in the shower and changing while chatting, and 10-15 to drive to my house.)


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[bisous]

Of all of the suggestions, I like this wording the best, except I would drop that "she's at an age" because presumably his daughter is the same age. I think "DD really needs her sleep or she's stressed out the next morning..." I'd sign it mom of a sleepy tween. :)

I think what's good about this is you're not asking him to stop, you're just asking that your DD not go.

I think the “she’s at an age” is kind of cheeky and I could see myself using lol.

[Kindra178]

I would be super annoyed if I were the driving parent and I got an email about my stops on the way home. Especially if I was one who consistently took the late pick up. My carpool, my stops. I imagine that the dad doesn’t have an overarching desire to accompany a gaggle of 12 year old girls to Starbucks at 9.15 at night. I bet he’s doing this to please his daughter.

I agree with other posters who said that my opinion on this has changed with time. Why don’t you volunteer for the late route and get a ride for your other child?


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[magnoliaparadise]

I agree with this post. It’s how I would handle it.

It is SO weird to me that a parent would bring kids to Starbucks that late at night. Also agree with the poster who’s kids wouldn’t say anything to an adult.

And can I get clarity on this situation? This is a carpool. Do you drive any of the legs? Or does your DD just get a ride for “free”. If you’re part of the calculus then you have a right to make requests about the carpool (not to impose an iron will but surely to express your preferences. If you’re just tagging along, I think it’s fair game to request but in a casual way as Squimp says here and you can’t really expect the behavior to change.

I’m so out of step with the other parents on this board about carpooling though!

I was just thinking this. I agree. If you are putting in your equal share of rides as the other parents, than by all means, I think you can send this email/text. BUT. If you are just in the lucky position of taking advantage of a generous dad/family driving your kid home, than IMHO you can not write a note like that.

But personally, OP, do I think it's weird for a parent to stop at a Starbucks on the way home from practice so late? YES. Unless it's a one off and rare. And wow, that practice is so late. My girls end a class at 8 pm once a week and that feels way too late for us!! But maybe your family is more efficient in getting to sleep!

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I would be super annoyed if I were the driving parent and I got an email about my stops on the way home. Especially if I was one who consistently took the late pick up. My carpool, my stops. I imagine that the dad doesn’t have an overarching desire to accompany a gaggle of 12 year old girls to Starbucks at 9.15 at night. I bet he’s doing this to please his daughter.

I agree with other posters who said that my opinion on this has changed with time. Why don’t you volunteer for the late route and get a ride for your other child?


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:yeahthat:

While I would never think of going to Starbucks that late at night with kids, it does come across as super annoying to make this request. The guy is doing you a favor (seems like there is no rotation, he does all the pickups?) and he just happens to be indulging his daughter in this situation.

I get the need for kids to get sleep, but As PP said, you and your DD agreed to that late practice time... I can’t imagine a stop at Starbucks (which maybe takes an extra 20-30 minutes?) is make-or-break in this situation. definitely not worth pissing another parent off, especially at this age.

If sleep is really an major issue for your DD , I’d avoid sports practices that late. If occasionally deal with insomnia and I’d i exercise past 7 pm, I have a hard time sleeping.

[ahisma]

My kids are 10, 12 and 20. I've been through the carpool gamut. Other parents are not you. They don't do things like you do. You don't do things like they do.

When you're in a carpool, it's for convenience. You don't get to dictate. We have one parent who buys the kids crazy amounts of snacks (like a second dinner of all junk). If I want that to stop, I need to switch up carpool. I don't want to do that, so I live with it.

I would not email. I'd either pick her up myself or accept that I needed to be flexible.

[JBaxter]

My kids are 10, 12 and 20. I've been through the carpool gamut. Other parents are not you. They don't do things like you do. You don't do things like they do.

When you're in a carpool, it's for convenience. You don't get to dictate. We have one parent who buys the kids crazy amounts of snacks (like a second dinner of all junk). If I want that to stop, I need to switch up carpool. I don't want to do that, so I live with it.

I would not email. I'd either pick her up myself or accept that I needed to be flexible.

Same here If you don't like the situation pick her up yourself. The child of the driving parent may want to stop for something.

[HannaAddict]

I think you should just pick up your daughter. I would not appreciate the passive aggressive email draft, that is how it reads. And it is fairly common for carpools to make stops for things like a slurpee around here, as well as for practices to run long, and I don’t think you can request a return by “x” time. As a carpool driver I would not be thrilled by that tone and would not want to continue driving your child. And this is a 7th grader, not a third grader. If she is anxious, make other arrangements. He’s doing you a favor, it doesn’t sound like you are driving carpool at all (if I’m wrong, then you only have to worry about one trip to reschedule). Another reason I’m not a fan of most carpools. It has to be similar parenting styles, if one parent is less anxious or less controlling it seems to stress out the more structured parent and a car pool is a favor and not paid driver so you need to roll with things - as long as they are safe of course (not driving recklessly or stopping for a beer!). We are also on Starbucks central and very few Starbucks are open after 9 pm, very few. I really doubt that much time is spent at Starbucks. Far more likely practice runs slightly long, kids chat briefly after practice, and more things add up. It is life.


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[SnuggleBuggles]

My kids are 10, 12 and 20. I've been through the carpool gamut. Other parents are not you. They don't do things like you do. You don't do things like they do.

When you're in a carpool, it's for convenience. You don't get to dictate. We have one parent who buys the kids crazy amounts of snacks (like a second dinner of all junk). If I want that to stop, I need to switch up carpool. I don't want to do that, so I live with it.

I would not email. I'd either pick her up myself or accept that I needed to be flexible.

Exactly.



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[georgiegirl]

So this totally brings back bad memories from my first 1.5 years in high school. I was in CA, so no bussing unless you were 3+ miles away and we were at 2.5+ miles). My mom (divorced) worked full time and so we had to carpool until I was old enough to drive. My mom did all the morning legs (for a 7:25 start time, so pretty early) and the other mom (who was a SAHM) took home in the afternoon. She would often run errands before she dropped me off (or arrived 20 min late) and it really pissed me off because I’d often have to sit in the car an extra 30 min after school. My mom knew she didn’t have any other options so I just had to go along with it. I feel like the other woman knew she could get away with anything since my mom was desperate. We were all so thankful when I turned 16 and could drive myself.

[HannaAddict]

could you confirm the other parents also aren't on board with this so you could get a majority on this request?

I don’t think this is helpful and would be ganging up on the carpool person and seeding dissection. It isn’t a vote. They are driving carpool. If you don’t like it and can’t just ask directly and be honest, just opt out of the carpool.


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[specialp]

I would be super annoyed if I were the driving parent and I got an email about my stops on the way home. Especially if I was one who consistently took the late pick up. My carpool, my stops. Baby Bargains (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87652)

Yep.

Carpool isn't a paid service. You help each other out for safe, secure, reasonable group transport and in exchange, accept that it will not be done exactly as you would've done.

[HannaAddict]

I think you should just pick up your daughter. I would not appreciate the passive aggressive email draft, that is how it reads. And it is fairly common for carpools to make stops for things like a slurpee around here, as well as for practices to run long, and I don’t think you can request a return by “x” time. As a carpool driver I would not be thrilled by that tone and would not want to continue driving your child. And this is a 7th grader, not a third grader. If she is anxious, make other arrangements. He’s doing you a favor, it doesn’t sound like you are driving carpool at all (if I’m wrong, then you only have to worry about one trip to reschedule). Another reason I’m not a fan of most carpools. It has to be similar parenting styles, if one parent is less anxious or less controlling it seems to stress out the more structured parent and a car pool is a favor and not paid driver so you need to roll with things - as long as they are safe of course (not driving recklessly or stopping for a beer!). We are also on Starbucks central and very few Starbucks are open after 9 pm, very few. But it would not be unusual to stop at a Starbucks, they are a major part of life here and have clean bathrooms which I could even see as being a reason for the drop too. I really doubt that much time is spent at Starbucks. Far more likely practice runs slightly long, kids chat briefly after practice, and more things add up. It is life.


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[MMMommy]

OP, can you clarify whether you also drive in this carpool, or do you not drive at all and your DD just reaps the benefit of a ride home?

Either way, I would not ask the father to drop your DD off at home before going to Starbucks, as I am guessing it would be quite out of the way for him to do that and then go back to Starbucks. I also would not ask the father to forgo this Starbucks run just to get my daughter home earlier. In this scenario, I think you either need to pick up your own DD to get her home earlier, or let it lie and understand that the Starbucks run is part of the deal when he drives. I also would not get opinions of the other parents to convince him to skip his Starbucks stop. I think the father would be put off by all of this.

[roobee]

A good carpool is a dream come true and a bad carpool is a nightmare.

In a good carpool every member is generous and accommodating.

In a bad carpool you always feel like you're doing all the driving and making a lot of sacrifices.

I considered posting here about a problem carpool mom this fall. Instead I simply sent the mother a message letting her know that we'd need to bow out of carpooling going forward and wishing their family a great rest of the season. I do not need to be aggravated on a weekly basis by a family that I'm not otherwise friendly with so that I can provide 60%+ of the rides based on their needs and schedule.

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[bisous]

You guys think the dad would be put off? Why? You’re just asking. It’s a completely reasonable request. I don’t only have preschoolers and I’ve carpooled for a long time. I will say I’ve never done errands as part of a carpool. I try to respect what’s best for the kids I’m driving and so do (most) of the other carpool drivers that I cooperate with.

OP I’d try it. Using California’s wording. I think it would be weird to get upset about that. If he is upset, then you can try driving yourself. I don’t see any harm in asking.

[roobee]

You guys think the dad would be put off? Why? You’re just asking. It’s a completely reasonable request. I don’t only have preschoolers and I’ve carpooled for a long time. I will say I’ve never done errands as part of a carpool. I try to respect what’s best for the kids I’m driving and so do (most) of the other carpool drivers that I cooperate with.

OP I’d try it. Using California’s wording. I think it would be weird to get upset about that. If he is upset, then you can try driving yourself. I don’t see any harm in asking.Because when someone does you a favor you say "thank you, I will return this favor soon and I appreciate the help you've given me." Not "thanks, but I'd prefer that you perform this service in the manner I specify in the future."

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[AnnieW625]

I would either find your daughter another soccer league that meets earlier so she isn’t home so late or I would just drive herself. I would not complain about the Starbucks stops on the way home.


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[squimp]

Because when someone does you a favor you say "thank you, I will return this favor soon and I appreciate the help you've given me." Not "thanks, but I'd prefer that you perform this service in the manner I specify in the future."

But if everyone is doing their share, then it is not really a favor. Carpools are usually a team effort. I would have absolutely no problem asking someone if they can forgo a Starbucks stop on the way home. I would do it in person. I have no problem asking for things nicely.

[MMMommy]

But if everyone is doing their share, then it is not really a favor. Carpools are usually a team effort. I would have absolutely no problem asking someone if they can forgo a Starbucks stop on the way home. I would do it in person. I have no problem asking for things nicely.

But has OP confirmed that she is driving in this carpool? Based on the majority of posts, I think most can’t tell yet whether OP is or isn’t doing any of the driving in this carpool. Assuming she is, then she would have more standing to state her preferences. I personally wouldn't feel comfortable making an issue of it, but that's just me.

[bisous]

Because when someone does you a favor you say "thank you, I will return this favor soon and I appreciate the help you've given me." Not "thanks, but I'd prefer that you perform this service in the manner I specify in the future."

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Yeah, like others I’m assuming that OP is also driving do it doesn’t seem like a favor to me—rather it’s an arrangement. Even if the Dad is doing all the driving I just don’t see why OP can ask him if it would be a problem to drop her DD off first. If it is, OP can decide whether that’s a deal breaker or not. I just don’t see the harm in asking but like Squimp says I have no problem having these kinds of discussions with people.

[dogmom]

One year my DS did club soccer, there were three boys in the car pool. Me and another mother split the to the practice and one dad always did the pickup since it was near his work and he would just work late those nights. He would pick up McDonalds for his son and my son and the other boy would be on either side of his son eating his French fries, with that all so yummy smell filling up the car for 30 minute home. I only found out from the other mother after two months.

Yeah, it was bad. But it saved me an hour round trip while working full time. So our family just sucked it up for a year and never said anything. If you do send an email you have to prepared for all responses, and included getting kicked out of car pool. It’s a dice roll.

[JBaxter]

One year my DS did club soccer, there were three boys in the car pool. Me and another mother split the to the practice and one dad always did the pickup since it was near his work and he would just work late those nights. He would pick up McDonalds for his son and my son and the other boy would be on either side of his son eating his French fries, with that all so yummy smell filling up the car for 30 minute home. I only found out from the other mother after two months.

Yeah, it was bad. But it saved me an hour round trip while working full time. So our family just sucked it up for a year and never said anything. If you do send an email you have to prepared for all responses, and included getting kicked out of car pool. It’s a dice roll.

Thats mean! I always buy for everyone in the car if Im stopping. But we do stop frequently when I carpool kids. Usually its for either french fries or milkshakes.

[Corie]

One year my DS did club soccer, there were three boys in the car pool. Me and another mother split the to the practice and one dad always did the pickup since it was near his work and he would just work late those nights. He would pick up McDonalds for his son and my son and the other boy would be on either side of his son eating his French fries, with that all so yummy smell filling up the car for 30 minute home. I only found out from the other mother after two months.

Yeah, it was bad. But it saved me an hour round trip while working full time. So our family just sucked it up for a year and never said anything. If you do send an email you have to prepared for all responses, and included getting kicked out of car pool. It’s a dice roll.


That's horrible!!! Seriously, who does that?

[o_mom]

I'll add a slightly different option.

Can you introduce the dad to the Starbucks app?

Assuming the Starbucks is on the way home (which, around here, there are at least three between the big sports park and our house), then if he pre-orders, it should not be more than 5 extra minutes to pull in the parking lot, drop off his daughter to grab the order, and get back on the way.

That way they get their treat and minimize the extra time.



FTR, I would NEVER make a stop like that without asking other parents, especially at night, and that would be unthinkable for the carpool parents we have worked with around here. I had to stop at the pharmacy once to grab a refill (pre-ordered, but you never know how long the line will be), and I made darn sure to let the other parents know that we would be stopping and apologized for being late. I do think it is rude on the part of the dad, but he probably is just clueless.

[dogmom]

That's horrible!!! Seriously, who does that?

An engineer dad with poor social skills and a mother with 3 boys who she thought were all soccer stars at a young age?

There was a post about character building. I think things like this offer more changes to shape your kid that manufactured ones!

[westwoodmom04]

Count me in the don’t ask group, there is no way to do it without looking ungrateful.

My dd is roughly the same age. After every single game or practice, she wants to stop afterwards. I don’t every time, but will give in occasionally. I am sure it is his dd who wants the treat, not the dad who wants to stop. He’s trying to do something nice for the girls. If it’s too great an inconvenience for you, I would bow out of the car pool.

[bisous]

Thats mean! I always buy for everyone in the car if Im stopping. But we do stop frequently when I carpool kids. Usually its for either french fries or milkshakes.

Wow. I’ve never been part of a carpool that stops for treats. Also, my kids have never gotten a treat on the way home from an activity—even ones that don’t end so late at night. Maybe that’s where the different perspective comes in? My kids get milkshakes maybe once a year and French fries are part of dinner when we eat out on vacation. I’m glad for these postings because it helps me understand the dad in the OPs post a little better.

[Philly Mom]

Count me in the don’t ask group, there is no way to do it without looking ungrateful.

My dd is roughly the same age. After every single game or practice, she wants to stop afterwards. I don’t every time, but will give in occasionally. I am sure it is his dd who wants the treat, not the dad who wants to stop. He’s trying to do something nice for the girls. If it’s too great an inconvenience for you, I would bow out of the car pool.

I agree. (Well my kids are younger). My kids often want to stop for treats even after late things and my DH loves to stop with them. It’s his way of relating/bonding since he tends to work a lot. He would be incredibly annoyed and pissed if someone complained. I can see your POV but he would not.


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[ahisma]

I think treats become more common when kids are older and busier. It's not uncommon for tweens / teens to be out until after dinner and eat quickly on the go. Heck, I've driven home from school events where the school info says to send cash to stop for something to eat on the way home. My kids eat two dinners (and are active / fit). Our personal choice isn't fast food, but different folks have different approaches. My 10 yo's carpool used to stop for donuts on the way home. NOT what I would have done, but I'm not the one driving that leg, so whatever.

[jacksmomtobe]

OP here. Sorry if this is a bit jumbled I am trying to remember everyone's questions,etc To clarify a few things.. This is a carpool with equal driving. For the winter practices each family takes a night so it is not the same Dad picking up each week. In the fall one family out of the 3 (not this Dad) did not drive at all. I always drove to one practice and then usually alternated to and from on the 2nd one sometimes covering even more than that if the other family needed me to. I was more than wiling to do so that when I needed it someone could return the favor. With the fall and winter schedule I am able to drive dd to and from. The carpool is more of a necessity/convenience for the other families hence the one family who didn't drive at all in the fall. Because it can take 45 min to get to the practice facility and the winter practices are a bit shorter than the outside practices the one driver stays in the area. I talked with DD about this and she agreed that it would be weird for me to pick her up and not offer to drive the other two girls home.

The winter practices in particular end promptly as there is another group using the facility when we finish so the Club Director pushes the girls to get out of there quickly. There is no Starbucks directly on the route home (though ironically there is a Starbucks very close to the Dad's house). The one the Dad is choosing is a 10-15 min detour just to get there because you have to go onto a heavily traveled roads to get to the right side of a divided highway. On the night that he got dd home after 10 he was late to pick them up to start compounding the issue. Though the stop itself is not long I just find it unnecessary at that time of night and he is basically adding another 20 minutes to the trip. I believe the girls are buying their own drinks. Dd typically uses the app.

DD is committed so i have no issue with the practices being later. As both kids have gotten older we have adjusted to the fact that they will often get home later than sometimes ideal. In fact in the fall once a week when just she had practice at a different facility, we wouldn't get home until 10. That said when I drive home I try to get the girls home quickly to try to lessen the impact of the late schedule. Part of the sport is having healthy habits such as getting enough sleep.

DS does not have any current conflicts. In the spring he may but I am in a well working carpool for that team so I would only occasionally if at all need a ride for DD. As I mentioned above the other families would likely need the driving assistance more than I do so I would feel bad backing out as it would make it harder for the other 2 families. My intent in asking my original question was to not dictate what the other parent does but just to make a friendly request without sounding judgmental which based on the responses here isn't possible. In talking with Dd she said she will ask if they could pass on stopping at Starbucks tonight. She said that the other girls parents definitely do not know as the other girl leaves behind or hides her cup. I picked up on the other girl's parents parenting style from clues the other girl gave in conversation and personally would have asked if it was ok to stop. This Dad is a bit clueless so I don't think he really thinks it through. One time the girls were almost late for practice because he dropped something at someone's house on the way to practice and went in for 15-20 minutes with the girls sitting in the car waiting for him. His daughter is the one who is eager to stop whereas the other two want to get home.

[div_0305]

Not sure how we got to 6 pages on this, but it's an interesting topic. So the dad pays for all in the carpool to get something--is it a snack/bakery item or hot cocoa? What does he buy your daughter there? Maybe his daughter gets hungry after practice, so he pays for everyone to get something out of generosity? Maybe you could offer to send him some protein bars for the girls after practice if that's why they stop at Starbucks? ETA: just saw your new post--driving out of the way for Starbucks is not good. I think you could clarify why they stop, and if he's not paying for anyone else, ask if he'd stop at Starbucks before picking them up.

[westwoodmom04]

OP here. Sorry if this is a bit jumbled I am trying to remember everyone's questions,etc To clarify a few things.. This is a carpool with equal driving. For the winter practices each family takes a night so it is not the same Dad picking up each week. In the fall one family out of the 3 (not this Dad) did not drive at all. I always drove to one practice and then usually alternated to and from on the 2nd one sometimes covering even more than that if the other family needed me to. I was more than wiling to do so that when I needed it someone could return the favor. With the fall and winter schedule I am able to drive dd to and from. The carpool is more of a necessity/convenience for the other families hence the one family who didn't drive at all in the fall. Because it can take 45 min to get to the practice facility and the winter practices are a bit shorter than the outside practices the one driver stays in the area. I talked with DD about this and she agreed that it would be weird for me to pick her up and not offer to drive the other two girls home.

The winter practices in particular end promptly as there is another group using the facility when we finish so the Club Director pushes the girls to get out of there quickly. There is no Starbucks directly on the route home (though ironically there is a Starbucks very close to the Dad's house). The one the Dad is choosing is a 10-15 min detour just to get there because you have to go onto a heavily traveled roads to get to the right side of a divided highway. On the night that he got dd home after 10 he was late to pick them up to start compounding the issue. Though the stop itself is not long I just find it unnecessary at that time of night and he is basically adding another 20 minutes to the trip. I believe the girls are buying their own drinks. Dd typically uses the app.

DD is committed so i have no issue with the practices being later. As both kids have gotten older we have adjusted to the fact that they will often get home later than sometimes ideal. In fact in the fall once a week when just she had practice at a different facility, we wouldn't get home until 10. That said when I drive home I try to get the girls home quickly to try to lessen the impact of the late schedule. Part of the sport is having healthy habits such as getting enough sleep.

DS does not have any current conflicts. In the spring he may but I am in a well working carpool for that team so I would only occasionally if at all need a ride for DD. As I mentioned above the other families would likely need the driving assistance more than I do so I would feel bad backing out as it would make it harder for the other 2 families. My intent in asking my original question was to not dictate what the other parent does but just to make a friendly request without sounding judgmental which based on the responses here isn't possible. In talking with Dd she said she will ask if they could pass on stopping at Starbucks tonight. She said that the other girls parents definitely do not know as the other girl leaves behind or hides her cup. I picked up on the other girl's parents parenting style from clues the other girl gave in conversation and personally would have asked if it was ok to stop. This Dad is a bit clueless so I don't think he really thinks it through. One time the girls were almost late for practice because he dropped something at someone's house on the way to practice and went in for 15-20 minutes with the girls sitting in the car waiting for him. His daughter is the one who is eager to stop whereas the other two want to get home.


Nothing in this changes my original response that you should not write your proposed email. You probably aren’t aware of this, but your response oozes resentment towards the dad that goes to Starbucks. It also isn’t your place to decide what the other parents would want. I still think you should just drop out of you can’t live with the occasional stop at Starbucks.

[vonfirmath]

That's horrible!!! Seriously, who does that?

AGreed. The one year we picked up a third child to go to AWANA, I made sure the mom knew we do McDonald's for dinner that day, but I'd pick up something for her daughter there as well (and what would Reese like?). Thankfully she tossed some money my way here and there to help cover it but I'd have done it anyway. Because it's too helpful to our evening to buy McDonald's on the way to stop doing that.

[carolinacool]

Please forgive me if this has been mentioned, I think one of the issues might be the bedtime. Maybe his daughter doesn't go to bed until 11, so he's not thinking that he has to rush home. On the other hand, you know your daughter needs a certain amount of sleep, so you hurry home when it's your turn to drive.

[squimp]

Based on your post I definitely talk to the dad since you are sharing the responsibilities. I'm sorry, driving 15 minutes out of the way on a late night home just does not make sense. I wouldn't mind if you asked me, and I would definitely bring it up. But hey, clearly we all have different ways of interacting with people here!

[SnuggleBuggles]

Based on your post I definitely talk to the dad since you are sharing the responsibilities. I'm sorry, driving 15 minutes out of the way on a late night home just does not make sense. I wouldn't mind if you asked me, and I would definitely bring it up. But hey, clearly we all have different ways of interacting with people here!

:) to prove that point on differences...I just don't think an extra 15 minutes once a week is enough to warrant bringing it up. It's just not a big deal in the big scheme of things, imo.

[mom2binsd]

I think this comes down to the dad has his way of doing things, isn't always on top of schedules/being on time and is not tuned into the fact that your DD and the other might want to be home as soon as possible. This would be my XH if he were in a carpool. I'm guessing his DD knows that daddy will stop at Starbucks and she may be wanting the extra time with him as well.

As is evident on this thread different families have very different views on thing like bedtimes/fast food and treats. I have had kids in sports and activities their whole lives and we are very much a take it as it comes/less strict with bedtimes and food and it works for my kids to still be successful in school and not be grumpy the next day, they are night owls like me.

I'm not sure why he goes to the Starbucks so out of the way, but I have friends who are obsessed with the place and I don't get it all.

I don't think an email is the way to go, and suggesting that he use the APP is probably not the way to go, while it may seem helpful it will not be taken that way I assure you.

[squimp]

:) to prove that point on differences...I just don't think an extra 15 minutes once a week is enough to warrant bringing it up. It's just not a big deal in the big scheme of things, imo.

But it sounded like it turned into a half hour. And I do think it makes a difference in the scheme of things, and it's not necessary.

[DualvansMommy]

Even with the updated information, I still would stick by my original suggestion of not sending the dads an email. For me and my family, I try to look at the bigger picture and it's a once a week thing for the dad to stop by based on other parents doing the carpool as well, and that isn't a big enough of a reason for my family to drop out of a useful carpool ride.

Also, agree with pp that your OP just oozes resentment, even though it may not be clear. As an outsider without any filter, it's how I would read if I gotten an email like the one you're thinking of sending. You just have to decide on what is important to you as a parent and as a family; late night sleep once a week or a well valued carpool to give up.

[o_mom]

But it sounded like it turned into a half hour. And I do think it makes a difference in the scheme of things, and it's not necessary.

Yes, from what she wrote, it is 10-15 minutes out of the way, which adds 20-30 min of driving, plus time to get the drinks (5 min if they use the app, 15+ if they order there), plus 10 minutes late...yeah, 45 min extra because dad wants to do Starbucks first and not after drop off (and has one right by his house).

Sounds like he is just clueless.

[westwoodmom04]

There is no way complaining about treating the girls to Starbucks is going to end well.

Tween girls love Starbucks it is unlikely the other girls see this stop as a bad thing.

[div_0305]

There is no way complaining about treating the girls to Starbucks is going to end well.

Tween girls love Starbucks it is unlikely the other girls see this stop as a bad thing.

The OP said she thinks the girls are paying for themselves. I agree with you though, if the dad is treating them, I don't think it will go well with the other girls. I'm also curious what the girls are getting--a light snack, cocoa, decaf coffee--a light snack would make sense to me after practice, and asking the dad to pick these up BEFORE pickup time seems like the way to go.

[melrose7]

There is no way complaining about treating the girls to Starbucks is going to end well.

Tween girls love Starbucks it is unlikely the other girls see this stop as a bad thing.

Another example of different parenting styles/lives as my kids have never even been to a Starbucks and if they did they would go would have no idea what to order or what was offered.

It would not be my type of car pool because we rush home when we have late activities to get to bed at a reasonable hour and going out of the way for a treat late at night is pointless to me. And if I said something and they were offended, oh well. Then I guess I’ll be picking up my daughter from practice but at least I tried by asking. But as we tell our kids different families, different rules.

[Kindra178]

Another example of different parenting styles/lives as my kids have never even been to a Starbucks and if they did they would go would have no idea what to order or what was offered.

It would not be my type of car pool because we rush home when we have late activities to get to bed at a reasonable hour and going out of the way for a treat late at night is pointless to me. And if I said something and they were offended, oh well. Then I guess I’ll be picking up my daughter from practice but at least I tried by asking. But as we tell our kids different families, different rules.

I'm fascinated by this! How old are you kids?

I'm wondering if the dad knows his kid will be starving post practice so a Starbucks run, while fun, also saves him from preparing food when she gets home. My kid has dinner number 2 when he gets home from late practice.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

Given your additional info that this dad doesn’t drive every week, that makes me even more inclined to not say anything. I can’t inagine an extra 20 minutes every few weeks is that big of a deal, especially given the convenience of the carpool and that u don’t have to make the drive to pick her up

I agree with Pp who say there is no way to word it without it coming across badly. It’s not complaining , it’s more about judging parenting style that’s an issue here. You’re asking him to give up something he and his dd enjoy doing to make it more convenient for you, when he is the one driving.

The being late for practice due to running errands before would be annoying but if it only happened once i would let it slide, given the convenience.

[Snow mom]

If you truly do not need the carpool I would consider dropping out of it. I don't think your being their obliges you to drive everyone every week. "Sorry for the inconvienence but DD is getting very anxious about late bedtimes after practice. I'm going to start driving her home after practice so she can get to bed as soon as possible. Thanks!" Dropping off a carpool full of kids takes time so if the goal is home and to bed then it makes sense that you would just drive her.

[lovin2shop]

I totally get being annoyed, but I think I would just let it go since it is not all that often. I can sympathize though. We had a carpool situation recently, where the parents were hard to work with on the schedule, and always stopped to pick up dinner when they brought home. Most of the places they went were crowded, so it would take quite a bit of time. My 10 year old DS would be starving at 7:30 after 1.5 to 2 hours of soccer, they did not offer anything for him, and it made planning our dinner times at home unpredictable. Also, when we picked up, their son was always playing around on the play equipment and difficult to get to leave and head to the car. I was so relieved when that came to an end. Sometimes carpools are golden, and sometimes they really aren't worth it...and a lot of times, the apple just doesn't fall far. I just tried to use this as a teaching experience for my DS to understand how he should act in these situations since we all found it super annoying.

[georgiegirl]

How often is this happening? If it’s frequent, then I’d say something because the cumulative effects of 30 min less sleep a night are big. But if it’s once a month, I’d let it go. For the record, I’d be super annoyed. We have a late carpool, and the mom who drives home never stops to get treats (maybe on a Saturday afternoon but never at 9:15 at night).


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[bisous]

Another example of different parenting styles/lives as my kids have never even been to a Starbucks and if they did they would go would have no idea what to order or what was offered.

It would not be my type of car pool because we rush home when we have late activities to get to bed at a reasonable hour and going out of the way for a treat late at night is pointless to me. And if I said something and they were offended, oh well. Then I guess I’ll be picking up my daughter from practice but at least I tried by asking. But as we tell our kids different families, different rules.

Yep. I feel completely the same. My kids have never been to Starbucks. I’ve been like two times. (Coffee is against my religion but I’ve had herbal tea there).

[bisous]

Can someone explain to me why it’s rude to ask? Is it because you’re implying that the original behavior is rude? Because if that’s it than all the more reason for the Dad to stop doing it, right? Can someone who thinks this would be a rude question explain to me why it is rude? It’s mindboggling that the two options presented are to either suck it up or drive separately. When asking could solve the whole thing.

[nfceagles]

If you truly do not need the carpool I would consider dropping out of it. I don't think your being their obliges you to drive everyone every week. "Sorry for the inconvienence but DD is getting very anxious about late bedtimes after practice. I'm going to start driving her home after practice so she can get to bed as soon as possible. Thanks!" Dropping off a carpool full of kids takes time so if the goal is home and to bed then it makes sense that you would just drive her.

I think this is your best bet. And you may find he offers to head straight home instead of losing your help.

I totally get the annoyance. Starbucks isn’t even on our radar and Starbucks that late at night seems a strange choice. And the later arrival would annoy me too. My teen DS actually has a medical treatment that can’t be done before soccer but requires he eat first and then stay up at least 1 hour, preferably 2 afterwards. So every minute after soccer practice counts for us. I sometimes pick up fast food near the training facility so he has something ready to eat right away but I do so during practice and put it in the cooler out of sight until we get home because I’m sure his friend’s parents wouldn’t appreciate me feeding him Taco Bell every time I drive.

I get that that my DS’s medical needs are our issue to deal with. I would happily back out of the carpool, I don’t need it, but I know it is immensely helpful to this friend’s family so I don’t. I get that too. Just because the driving is shared equally doesn’t mean the need is equal.

Another option is to tell your DD not to order anything. If asked, she can say, “Drinking Starbucks right before going to bed isn’t working for me.” If they aren’t all into it maybe he’ll stop on his own.


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[gymnbomb]

Another example of different parenting styles/lives as my kids have never even been to a Starbucks and if they did they would go would have no idea what to order or what was offered.

I have been to a Starbucks in an airport or hotel a handful of times to get a muffin for breakfast when there were no other options, but aside from that I have never sought out a Starbucks to go to and wouldn’t have the first clue what to order other than said muffin. But then I think coffee is gross, so I am clearly in the minority there.

What appears to have been lost here is that it is the child who is upset/stressed out about the timing and delay of bedtime, not the Mom. To me that makes a big difference.


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[Kindra178]

Can someone explain to me why it’s rude to ask? Is it because you’re implying that the original behavior is rude? Because if that’s it than all the more reason for the Dad to stop doing it, right? Can someone who thinks this would be a rude question explain to me why it is rude? It’s mindboggling that the two options presented are to either suck it up or drive separately. When asking could solve the whole thing.

It’s rude to ask the dad to stop doing it because he’s clearly doing it because he and/or his daughter like going, for whatever reason. OP is not paying this dad and can’t dictate how he runs his leg of carpool. I don’t think stopping at Starbucks is rude - I think in this case it is odd given the distance travelled and the fact that it’s out of way.


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[basil]

Why doesn’t the OP’s DD ask the other kid not to stop for Starbucks, since she is the one requesting it? “Hey, can you tell your dad to skip coffee tonight? I want to get home early” or “hey, can you guys do the Starbucks after you drop me off?”

I can see why it would be hard for a tween to ask that if an adult, but it is good practice for her to be able to ask a friend/peer for something like that. Also then OP doesn’t have to seem ungrateful for the ride.

[California]

Bisous, I’m in agreement that I see no problem with bringing this up (though agree OP I wouldn’t use your original wording.) If you never ask, you never know how the dad will respond- everything here is just conjecture. Before I dropped out of a carpool I’d at least state my reason- DD needs to get straight to bed- and see if we can work it out.

[bisous]

It’s rude to ask the dad to stop doing it because he’s clearly doing it because he and/or his daughter like going, for whatever reason. OP is not paying this dad and can’t dictate how he runs his leg of carpool. I don’t think stopping at Starbucks is rude - I think in this case it is odd given the distance travelled and the fact that it’s out of way.


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He and his daughter may like going but they should do that on their own time and not in conjunction with the carpool. That's the way I was taught anyway. On the other hand, it can be conceived of as rude to dictate the terms of the carpool. I think ASKING about it is fair game though because the other party (the OP) is trying to determine if this is a deal breaker or not and without this piece of information how can she know?

For those who think leaving is the best option how is that less rude than simply asking about it? Especially when it has the potential to very much disadvantage the third family. I guess I just think about those types of things and my behavior in a carpool is to advantage the other families as much as myself. FWIW, I don't think leaving a carpool that doesn't work is rude and I definitely don't think asking about it is rude. The only rude behavior is the behavior of the Dad IMO who takes kids on an extra trip late at night that is not pre-approved by the other parents. If the trip with the dad didn't somehow put the OP's DD in a difficult position I wouldn't say anything. But it does. I feel like adults ask about these things and then move on without taking offense to such questions. This is far and away not the most difficult conversation I've had to have with a fellow parent!

[TwinFoxes]

I think the “she’s at an age” is kind of cheeky and I could see myself using lol.

I wouldn't because the DDs are the same age..."our kids are at an age where they need sleep. It's fine if you want to deprive your kid of a good night's sleep, but please bring my kid home first." It just sounds judgy.

This thread makes me glad I've never been in a carpool other than one-offs. I'm adding carpools to my list of "not my thing". The list also includes potlucks. :) I will get my kids home as early as possible or do something as whacky as stopping at Starbucks. FWIW, my kids would looove to stop, and I would be annoyed that they were kept out late. :) They are all about Starbucks hot chocolate.

[jacksmomtobe]

OP again. My original post was just an attempt to figure out what to say. I was hoping to make a friendly request to make a small adjustment by not stopping at Starbucks to get my dd home just a bit sooner so that she can get to bed at a more reasonable hour. Clearly my draft did not do that. One clarification it is my belief that the girls pay so this is not the Dad treating them. They are getting drinks not food. The 3rd girl in the carpool usually has healthy snacks in her backpack. He was also stopping in the fall but the practice did not end so late so I didn't have as much of an issue with it.

At this point Dd is going to ask to the Dad to skip the stop tonight. As a prior poster mentions the Dad is a bit clueless. The stop at someone's house and almost making the girls late is one of a few things that have occurred which I have let go without saying anything. I find those things annoying but not worth mentioning. The carpool on this schedule lasts another few months (so probably 4 more drives from this Dad).

[SnuggleBuggles]

I wouldn't because the DDs are the same age..."our kids are at an age where they need sleep. It's fine if you want to deprive your kid of a good night's sleep, but please bring my kid home first." It just sounds judgy.

This thread makes me glad I've never been in a carpool other than one-offs. I'm adding carpools to my list of "not my thing". The list also includes potlucks. :) I will get my kids home as early as possible or do something as whacky as stopping at Starbucks.

Another that’s darned happy not to need carpools. I value my flexibility and independence plus not having to deal with the peculiarities of others. [emoji12]



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[AnnieW625]

There is no way complaining about treating the girls to Starbucks is going to end well.

Tween girls love Starbucks it is unlikely the other girls see this stop as a bad thing.

Yes to this! My daughter loves their caramel spiced cider which I can easily make at home and put in a Starbucks like cup, but nope it is not the same.

If my kid wants to spend $3 on Starbucks that is her choice. If someone else’s dad wants to spend $3 on Starbucks heated Apple cider with whip then that is their choice.

I still think if time is an issue then the OP needs to find another team and or stop carpooling.


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[AnnieW625]

Why doesn’t the OP’s DD ask the other kid not to stop for Starbucks, since she is the one requesting it? “Hey, can you tell your dad to skip coffee tonight? I want to get home early” or “hey, can you guys do the Starbucks after you drop me off?”

I can see why it would be hard for a tween to ask that if an adult, but it is good practice for her to be able to ask a friend/peer for something like that. Also then OP doesn’t have to seem ungrateful for the ride.

Because that would be completely uncool and put the daughter on the outside. No pre teen-adult girl/woman wants to be seen as an outsider; even the most introverted ones....I speak from experience (my own....I am not a total introvert, but I like to be involved and included), and from my introverted daughter’s experience (she is 12/1/2) who while shy and introverted still wants to be included and liked. It sounds dumb, but in the grand scheme of things the invites to Starbucks could mean something for the OP’s daughter.


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[speo]

OP, if it is only 4 more times on this schedule and he has consistently been going to Starbucks for months, then I wouldn't say anything. I do think it would be ok for your daughter to say something and see how it goes.

DS1 is in club soccer and we drive a lot. I have been in carpools with some parents. I have tried to avoid carpools when asked by others if I thought we weren't a good fit. I would never stop like this dad. I never buy treats after practices. I do try to stick to a schedule. I would be annoyed by the dad doing this. However, even with all of that, I would not say anything to the dad. I agree with many that it is his leg of the carpool, so he gets to decide how it goes down within reason. And I think this falls within reason, especially with the added info that this won't happen many more times. You might be interacting with this dad and family for many years to come. Who knows? I would not want to upset that situation by questioning his decision making.

[ett]

Honestly, if it's just 4 more drives, I wouldn't say anything. I wouldn't want to risk offending him in case I would need to carpool with him in the future.

[TwinFoxes]

It's making me giggle that people are saying they/their kids have never been to a Starbucks and wouldn't know what to order. Menus exist. I mean, what do you do when you go out to eat at a new restaurant? I rarely order Starbucks for myself, their "fun" drinks are too sweet, and caffeine really effects me. If I do decide to get something, I look on the menu board. And for snacks, they're literally in a case in front of you.

[Corie]

This thread makes me glad I've never been in a carpool other than one-offs. I'm adding carpools to my list of "not my thing".




I totally agree!! LOL

[bisous]

I wouldn't because the DDs are the same age..."our kids are at an age where they need sleep. It's fine if you want to deprive your kid of a good night's sleep, but please bring my kid home first." It just sounds judgy.

This thread makes me glad I've never been in a carpool other than one-offs. I'm adding carpools to my list of "not my thing". The list also includes potlucks. :) I will get my kids home as early as possible or do something as whacky as stopping at Starbucks. FWIW, my kids would looove to stop, and I would be annoyed that they were kept out late. :) They are all about Starbucks hot chocolate.

Aww. I don't know. I think most people use carpools because they need them. I wish I could get by on my own! But I help other people as much as I'm helped. I don't hate it but it is tricky sometimes (see my long post about my high school carpool!)

On a totally unrelated note, I don't know if I'd ever hang out with my adult friends if we didn't have potlucks! What do you do for dinner parties? The host provides all the food? I think you must be much fancier than I am.

[bisous]

It's making me giggle that people are saying they/their kids have never been to a Starbucks and wouldn't know what to order. Menus exist. I mean, what do you do when you go out to eat at a new restaurant? I rarely order Starbucks for myself, their "fun" drinks are too sweet, and caffeine really effects me. If I do decide to get something, I look on the menu board. And for snacks, they're literally in a case in front of you.

Sorry, not to keep responding to your posts but just to point out that although I hardly think this is the case for MOST people on the board, Starbucks is more problematic for us than another kind of snack/restaurant type place because it mostly serves various kinds of coffee drinks and my kids are not allowed to have coffee. I can see my kids accidentally getting a yummy "latte" at the recommendation of a friend and not realizing that they are drinking coffee. I guess I need to have a discussion in case other carpooling parent ever decides to stop by after a late night practice. ;) I'll recommend that they always stick with "hot chocolate". :)

[essnce629]

Why doesn’t the OP’s DD ask the other kid not to stop for Starbucks, since she is the one requesting it? “Hey, can you tell your dad to skip coffee tonight? I want to get home early” or “hey, can you guys do the Starbucks after you drop me off?”

I can see why it would be hard for a tween to ask that if an adult, but it is good practice for her to be able to ask a friend/peer for something like that. Also then OP doesn’t have to seem ungrateful for the ride.This is what I've been saying all along and it looks like the OP's DD is going to do next time. If you can't practice advocating for yourself amongst your friends then how will you ever learn? In high school you need to be able to speak up and talk to your teachers without a parent's help, etc. Middle school is the time to start.
Bisous, I’m in agreement that I see no problem with bringing this up (though agree OP I wouldn’t use your original wording.) If you never ask, you never know how the dad will respond- everything here is just conjecture. Before I dropped out of a carpool I’d at least state my reason- DD needs to get straight to bed- and see if we can work it out.Agree

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[SnuggleBuggles]

Sorry, not to keep responding to your posts but just to point out that although I hardly think this is the case for MOST people on the board, Starbucks is more problematic for us than another kind of snack/restaurant type place because it mostly serves various kinds of coffee drinks and my kids are not allowed to have coffee. I can see my kids accidentally getting a yummy "latte" at the recommendation of a friend and not realizing that they are drinking coffee. I guess I need to have a discussion in case other carpooling parent ever decides to stop by after a late night practice. ;) I'll recommend that they always stick with "hot chocolate". :)

Pull up a Starbucks menu. There are like a bazillion things on it besides coffee. My kids get chocolate milk and a pastry.


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[twowhat?]

OP let us know how it goes with your DD making the request!! I really hope she asks and that it works out.

I'd be miffed too if I found out a carpool parent was going 20 min out of the way for Starbucks after a late practice. I also have kids who really need their sleep so I feel for your DD! 20 minutes is a lot and a big deal when it comes to sleep. Most of our kids' friends don't prioritize sleep or have kids who don't completely fall apart when they don't get enough sleep and so they would never "get it".

[MMMommy]

They are all about Starbucks hot chocolate.

Not to digress, but have you seen the big tin of Starbucks hot chocolate at Costco? :)

[Green_Tea]

Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternate universe.

You cannot ask another parent to not stop at Starbucks. It’s obnoxious. If you need your child to be in a certain place at a certain time, you need to drive them yourself. Full stop.

As for the Starbucks awareness, it’s a totally normal place that the vast majority of the citizens of the US have at least a passsing familiarity with. Not knowing about Starbucks or being able to figure out how to place an order there makes one an outlier. It’s like not knowing what CVS or Target is or how they work. It’s fine to be an outlier, but it’s a bit disingenuous to act like the Starbucks fan is the weird one.

Signed,
someone whose kids were ordering at Starbucks as preschoolers

[MMMommy]

Four more drives in a period of a few months? I would let it go and not bring up the issue. Also, is this father someone who you foresee as driving the "late pickup" slot for seasons to come? Will this be a problem down the road for other seasons? Or is it really just four more drives within the next few months?

If I were a teen, I know I would not want to be the one to ask the father to skip the Starbucks trip. As a teen just riding in the car, I would feel embarrassed and rude to have to ask the father to skip his Starbucks run. If were a teen, I wouldn't even want to ask the daughter to skip the Starbucks run either. If it was my own parent driving, I would have no problem asking my parent to skip a Starbucks run.

DD2 loves some Very Berry Hibiscus drink at Starbucks, and DD1 loves their Vanilla Creme drink. My only objection to Starbucks is the high prices of their drinks, compounded over time! :ROTFLMAO:

Don't even get me started on boba/pearl tea drinks. Me and my girls LOVE this stuff. We live in Nor Cal, and these places are everywhere--TPumps, Sharetea, Cha Express, Cha Time, I-Tea, Quickly, Bobabia, the list is endless. Seriously addicted. :)

[bisous]

Pull up a Starbucks menu. There are like a bazillion things on it besides coffee. My kids get chocolate milk and a pastry.


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Apologies to OP, who sounds like she has worked out something that will work for her. (Yay!)

And honestly, not to belabor the point,but just to say that because I am a literate adult I can find things at Starbucks that I'm certain don't have coffee in them. But there are a host of other things that I would have to seriously research so if a friend said "get this xxx" *I* would not know if it had coffee in it. Like I know Frappucinos and Espressos have coffee but my kids wouldn't know that. I don't even know if a "refresher" has coffee. Or a bottled drink. I'm assuming "evolution fresh" does not but haven't read the fine print. But yeah, I'd be fine! It is probably good to read this thread because I didn't realize that other parents would take my kids to restaurants/coffee hourse without asking me first and I think my kids might very well pick the wrong kind of drink if I didn't prep them before. Like I said, hot chocolate is a pretty safe bet so we'll go with that--especially since y'all say it is good!

[nfceagles]

Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternate universe.

You cannot ask another parent to not stop at Starbucks. It’s obnoxious. If you need your child to be in a certain place at a certain time, you need to drive them yourself. Full stop.


Dictating the terms is not OK, but I don’t see how dropping out and leaving them and the other family in a lurch more than yourself is less rude than politely bringing up the problem that might lead you to back out first.


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[boolady]

You can order most Starbucks drinks creme style and they use the creme base and no coffee or cappuccino.

[boolady]

Not to digress, but have you seen the big tin of Starbucks hot chocolate at Costco? :)

We have one of them in our pantry. DD loves it.

[PZMommy]

Signed,
someone whose kids were ordering at Starbucks as preschoolers

Mine too!! I hate coffee and tea, but love Starbucks!!! I get their chocolate chip or vanilla frapacinos, and they do not have coffee. In the winter I get hot chocolate. My DH takes my kids there every Sunday to give me some free time.

As for the OP, I’m a stickler about bedtime, but would let it slide in this situation. I don’t think there is a polite way to ask. Your best bet is to just drop out of the carpool if it bothers you that much.

[scrooks]

Signed,
someone whose kids were ordering at Starbucks as preschoolers
My kids all love Starbucks too. The hot cocoa is sooooo good (my fav too, I don't drink coffee). They are in many Target stores now too. It's almost impossible to miss them!

[basil]

Because that would be completely uncool and put the daughter on the outside. No pre teen-adult girl/woman wants to be seen as an outsider; even the most introverted ones....I speak from experience (my own....I am not a total introvert, but I like to be involved and included), and from my introverted daughter’s experience (she is 12/1/2) who while shy and introverted still wants to be included and liked. It sounds dumb, but in the grand scheme of things the invites to Starbucks could mean something for the OP’s daughter.


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Yeah, but OP's DD is the one who doesn't want to stop at Starbucks! One thing if OP didn't want her kid getting Starbucks, or wanted her home earlier, but OP said it was her DD didn't want go. Sure, no one wants to feel like a party pooper if the other girl wants to do something, but balancing your needs (for sleep, health, work, etc) and social opportunities is just life. Sometimes you stay out a little late if the date is going really well, sometimes you have to tell your chatty friend that you have to get home and cook dinner...I think it's good practice for OP's DD to assert herself in something that she wants. And it sounds like carpool dad could pretty easily go to Starbucks after dropping off OP's DD, so she should just tell the other kid. Yeah, asking that of an adult male may be tough, but asking a peer ought to be something she's capable of. Either that, or OP's DD will decide that it's not worth losing that social currency and she'll deal with 20 min less sleep once a month :)

All the time my 7 yo DS's friends will say something to him like "can you ask your mom if we can play video games/go outside/have a snack/etc?" I think I would be completely unphased if my kid asked something like "hey, Johnny doesn't want the pirate booty, can he have goldfish?" and I see this as the 5 years in the future version of that.

[AnnieW625]

Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternate universe.

You cannot ask another parent to not stop at Starbucks. It’s obnoxious. If you need your child to be in a certain place at a certain time, you need to drive them yourself. Full stop.

As for the Starbucks awareness, it’s a totally normal place that the vast majority of the citizens of the US have at least a passsing familiarity with. Not knowing about Starbucks or being able to figure out how to place an order there makes one an outlier. It’s like not knowing what CVS or Target is or how they work. It’s fine to be an outlier, but it’s a bit disingenuous to act like the Starbucks fan is the weird one.

Signed,
someone whose kids were ordering at Starbucks as preschoolers

[emoji38]Yes to this! My 8 year old orders cake pops on a regular basis. You don’t have to be a coffee lover or drinker to go to Starbucks. There is some type of Starbucks, Dunkin Donuts, Dutch Bros., (another NorCal/PNW chain) Tim Horton’s, or Coffee Bean on almost every corner in the US. Even my smallish farm town city of 50k people in Nor Cal has a Starbucks, and a Dutch Bros., and many rest areas with truck stops in California have a Starbucks. There were none of these driving from Sacramento to LA when I was a kid, but now there are a few which is better for travelers.


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[AnnieW625]

Yeah, but OP's DD is the one who doesn't want to stop at Starbucks! One thing if OP didn't want her kid getting Starbucks, or wanted her home earlier, but OP said it was her DD didn't want go. Sure, no one wants to feel like a party pooper if the other girl wants to do something, but balancing your needs (for sleep, health, work, etc) and social opportunities is just life. Sometimes you stay out a little late if the date is going really well, sometimes you have to tell your chatty friend that you have to get home and cook dinner...I think it's good practice for OP's DD to assert herself in something that she wants. And it sounds like carpool dad could pretty easily go to Starbucks after dropping off OP's DD, so she should just tell the other kid. Yeah, asking that of an adult male may be tough, but asking a peer ought to be something she's capable of. Either that, or OP's DD will decide that it's not worth losing that social currency and she'll deal with 20 min less sleep once a month :)

All the time my 7 yo DS's friends will say something to him like "can you ask your mom if we can play video games/go outside/have a snack/etc?" I think I would be completely unphased if my kid asked something like "hey, Johnny doesn't want the pirate booty, can he have goldfish?" and I see this as the 5 years in the future version of that.

Okay maybe I missed that, but then the daughter needs to tell the OP to pick her up and pull her from the carpool. I ha e missed a lot of these posts and don’t have the time to read them all so I apologize if this has already been suggested or is the final solution.


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[carolinacool]

My 9-year-old only drinks water from Starbucks. Won’t even try hot chocolate or one of the non-coffee fraps. I kind of don’t think he’s my child. :ROTFLMAO:

[PZMommy]

My 9-year-old only drinks water from Starbucks. Won’t even try hot chocolate or one of the non-coffee fraps. I kind of don’t think he’s my child. :ROTFLMAO:

My 9 yr old is the same. He always orders a grande ice water with his treat. lol He says they have the best ice water. lol

[MMMommy]

What if all the girls except for OP's DD wants the Starbucks run? Then what? Whether it be the dad or the other girls, if the majority riders want the Starbucks, does majority rule (irrespective of what the girls' parents want)?

Regardless, I don't think four late nights within a span of a few more months is worth haggling over. His drive, his prerogative.

[Philly Mom]

My 9 yr old is the same. He always orders a grande ice water with his treat. lol He says they have the best ice water. lol

Their ice water is really good. I think it is how they make their ice. I am a huge fan.


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[speo]

What if all the girls except for OP's DD wants the Starbucks run? Then what? Whether it be the dad or the other girls, if the majority riders want the Starbucks, does majority rule (irrespective of what the girls' parents want)?

Regardless, I don't think four late nights within a span of a few more months is worth haggling over. His drive, his prerogative.

I wondered this too. My guess is the third girl, who is hiding the cups from her parents, wants it to keep going!

[melrose7]

Sometimes I feel like I live in an alternate universe.


As for the Starbucks awareness, it’s a totally normal place that the vast majority of the citizens of the US have at least a passsing familiarity with. Not knowing about Starbucks or being able to figure out how to place an order there makes one an outlier. It’s like not knowing what CVS or Target is or how they work. It’s fine to be an outlier, but it’s a bit disingenuous to act like the Starbucks fan is the weird one.

Signed,
someone whose kids were ordering at Starbucks as preschoolers

I wasn’t saying that my children couldn’t read a menu they just have never been to one and wouldn’t even know what they serve. Then with so many things with coffee that I wouldn’t want them having they may not know what to get. I don’t drink coffee, we rarely eat out, and I have only been to a Starbucks to get my old boss her coffee. So I personally have never gotten anything from there either.

I am glad OP daughter is going to ask to skip the stop, even if it is 4 more times. It is something that bothers her.

[TwinFoxes]

Aww. I don't know. I think most people use carpools because they need them. I wish I could get by on my own! But I help other people as much as I'm helped. I don't hate it but it is tricky sometimes (see my long post about my high school carpool!)

On a totally unrelated note, I don't know if I'd ever hang out with my adult friends if we didn't have potlucks! What do you do for dinner parties? The host provides all the food? I think you must be much fancier than I am.

I'm not saying carpools should be outlawed, but they are really clearly not my thing. I've taken scouts to outings when their parents can't make it, but long term I don't need it and no one's ever asked (but we are walking distance to school, and the sports teams DDs play on are all close...we're strictly Rec league, no travel teams here.)

The host provides the food, but people often show up with a dessert or what not. Or, we do takeout and people split the cost for things like our book club.


Sorry, not to keep responding to your posts but just to point out that although I hardly think this is the case for MOST people on the board, Starbucks is more problematic for us than another kind of snack/restaurant type place because it mostly serves various kinds of coffee drinks and my kids are not allowed to have coffee. I can see my kids accidentally getting a yummy "latte" at the recommendation of a friend and not realizing that they are drinking coffee. I guess I need to have a discussion in case other carpooling parent ever decides to stop by after a late night practice. ;) I'll recommend that they always stick with "hot chocolate". :)

Again, there's a menu. Vegans, vegetarians, Jews who keep Kosher, Muslims, Celiac's patients, allergic people...they all have to be careful what they eat. Comparatively, not being able to drink coffee seems relatively simple. I know that not drinking coffee is a religious requirement for you, so I understand why you'd want to be extra careful. But, people other than you posted that they or their kids would have no idea what to order. My ten year olds don't drink coffee, and they figure it out. (As an aside because I'm curious, can you have decaf coffee? Not that I'm suggesting you ask for it at Starbucks).

One yummy non-caffeinated thing to drink is steamed milk with almond syrup added...especially on those post-practice Starbucks runs. :) It's a very relaxing drink.

[MontrealMum]

Sorry, not to keep responding to your posts but just to point out that although I hardly think this is the case for MOST people on the board, Starbucks is more problematic for us than another kind of snack/restaurant type place because it mostly serves various kinds of coffee drinks and my kids are not allowed to have coffee. I can see my kids accidentally getting a yummy "latte" at the recommendation of a friend and not realizing that they are drinking coffee. I guess I need to have a discussion in case other carpooling parent ever decides to stop by after a late night practice. ;) I'll recommend that they always stick with "hot chocolate". :)

My child has never had coffee at Starbucks or anywhere else. He has no trouble ordering there, however, and it's a favorite stop when we're in the States.

[mom2binsd]

What this thread has clearly illustrated is that there are vast differences in what folks consider normal, typical, stops on the way home during a carpool (which it appears that some of this board probably shouldn't participate in!).

As a single parent who relies on other parents taking my kids for entire weekends for hockey, I am reading this with interest, there is no way the original problem would even be on my radar, but each family has different issues.

All of us need to understand things like bedtime, food choices and and priorities are so different!

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[alootikki]

I think this thread is turning into the “Yoga Pants” thread of 2018! [emoji1787][emoji1787] So many strong opinions about carpool etiquette and Starbucks! [emoji1]


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[magnoliaparadise]

I think the question here is: When you assume one leg of a carpool, do you get to do extra things (go to Starbucks, and others have mentioned experiences in which carpooling parents stopped to pick up take out dinner or stopped to drop things off at a house).

IMHO, the driver of a carpool, on his/her shift does *not* have the right to do extra things like go to Starbucks, especially if it is late/not everyone wants to go/ he hasn't checked with parents.

A few things I am unclear about:
- You talk about 15 minutes out of the way, but I'm not clear if that's really 15 minutes, or more like 45 (15 to driver there, 15 to get food, 15 to driver back).
- I'm also not clear how often this dad drives.
- Also, it's not clear how long this carpool will go on for. If this class is ending at the end of Jan or Feb, I would suck it up. If this carpool were going on through Spring and I REALLY hated the dad going to Starbucks, then I would stop it. Spring is enough away.

You also talked about the other families and not wanting to leave and let them down, since they really need the carpool. I do see how this would matter, but I guess the question is how much the alternative (staying in a carpool that goes to Starbucks) matters to you. That goes back to the how long does it take/how frequent questions above. But... I guess if something were REALLY important to me, than I would leave the carpool even if it hurt the other families, as long as I first offered to take the other families...

I would absolutely say something - nicely, clearly, but say something. BUT I would only say something if I 1) was super annoyed by it - ie if it happened once a month, that would not be enough to annoy me to the point of saying something. More often or regularly, yes; and 2) I was absolutely fine with the alternative, which is that I would have to drive and leave the carpool.

Also, don't know if posters have suggested this, but another possibility is to approach dad with a 'can we talk about this' attitude, assuming that he is a kind person and not a jerk. SO you could say, 'hey carpooling dad, I wanted to talk to you about something. Can we brainstorm? I know that you want to go to Starbucks. My kid is having a problem, though, because she is EXHAUSTED at night and needs a lot of sleep and I'd like her home earlier. Is there some way that we can work this out? I understand your need for stopping, but I also want to get her home. We are in this carpool together and I want to make it work."

And then, frankly, if he is rude and can't brainstorm, then just leave the carpool politely. I just can't IMAGINE that a grown man would hear that and still say 'screw it, I'm sticking with my plan to go out of my way to get Starbucks anyway, I don't care about your daughter or sleep.'

[HannaAddict]

Wow. I’ve never been part of a carpool that stops for treats. Also, my kids have never gotten a treat on the way home from an activity—even ones that don’t end so late at night. Maybe that’s where the different perspective comes in? My kids get milkshakes maybe once a year and French fries are part of dinner when we eat out on vacation. I’m glad for these postings because it helps me understand the dad in the OPs post a little better.

All carpools we’ve ever done stop for treats. Not every time but totally common. And these are middle schoolers. People are clutching their pearls like he’s taking kindergartners to a strip club! (I’m joking!) It is Starbucks, well lit, clean, healthy options available and a social hub for kids in our circle. And who even knows why, I truly doubt he’s getting a latte at 9 pm unless he’s exhausted and needs to stay awake for the drive. I seriously think it could be a rest stop to avoid the parks bathrooms, but whatevs, if you don’t like it, drive your own child and then you can make sure they aren’t sullied by a fast food or Starbucks stop.


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[HannaAddict]

Yes, from what she wrote, it is 10-15 minutes out of the way, which adds 20-30 min of driving, plus time to get the drinks (5 min if they use the app, 15+ if they order there), plus 10 minutes late...yeah, 45 min extra because dad wants to do Starbucks first and not after drop off (and has one right by his house).

Sounds like he is just clueless.

I doubt it is that far out of the way. She said it was one time they were home at or just after 10 and that time he was late to pick up the girls. And the drive is 25 minutes. It might not be an exact straight shot, but oh well, once a week, part of compromising. If your daughter is fine asking to skip it one night, great. Maybe he will start asking and take a vote. But this is a middle schooler not a small child and once a week. If your parenting styles don’t mesh, skip carpool.


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[HannaAddict]

Apologies to OP, who sounds like she has worked out something that will work for her. (Yay!)

And honestly, not to belabor the point,but just to say that because I am a literate adult I can find things at Starbucks that I'm certain don't have coffee in them. But there are a host of other things that I would have to seriously research so if a friend said "get this xxx" *I* would not know if it had coffee in it. Like I know Frappucinos and Espressos have coffee but my kids wouldn't know that. I don't even know if a "refresher" has coffee. Or a bottled drink. I'm assuming "evolution fresh" does not but haven't read the fine print. But yeah, I'd be fine! It is probably good to read this thread because I didn't realize that other parents would take my kids to restaurants/coffee hourse without asking me first and I think my kids might very well pick the wrong kind of drink if I didn't prep them before. Like I said, hot chocolate is a pretty safe bet so we'll go with that--especially since y'all say it is good!

Many Frappuccinos don’t have caffeine or coffee at all. Some refreshers have quite a bit. And you can ask and they will tell you. It is a very normal place. Pellegrino and protein box. PB & J and more. Steamed milk or juice or regular water with ice. Much healthier options than the beloved Chick a Fil A and other chain restaurants frequented my many on those board and across America. You said he should do it on his own time, this might be part of his time. Someone said it is 15 minutes to get a drink there - never in any one I’ve been to except hell on earth upstate NY/NJ at a rest stop version. The busiest one in downtown can rock and roll and get you on your way with a huge line. And can’t imagine where soccer is that one is open after 9 pm, the only ones open late in our city, their bleeping HQ, are right by the university and have huge communal tables for studying. I think it is funny how Starbucks has been portrayed on this epic thread, coffee is really the least of what it is about.


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[magnoliaparadise]

All carpools we’ve ever done stop for treats. Not every time but totally common. And these are middle schoolers. People are clutching their pearls like he’s taking kindergartners to a strip club! (I’m joking!) It is Starbucks, well lit, clean, healthy options available and a social hub for kids in our circle. And who even knows why, I truly doubt he’s getting a latte at 9 pm unless he’s exhausted and needs to stay awake for the drive. I seriously think it could be a rest stop to avoid the parks bathrooms, but whatevs, if you don’t like it, drive your own child and then you can make sure they aren’t sullied by a fast food or Starbucks stop.


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Hahahaahaha about toddlers to strip clubs.

And interesting through about the latte for the drive (caffeine). I hadn't thought of that.

OP, I hadn't realized it was going to be only 4 more times over a few months as someone said in another post. If so, yeah, I would just let it go.

[Mommy_Mea]

I think the question here is: When you assume one leg of a carpool, do you get to do extra things (go to Starbucks, and others have mentioned experiences in which carpooling parents stopped to pick up take out dinner or stopped to drop things off at a house).

IMHO, the driver of a carpool, on his/her shift does *not* have the right to do extra things like go to Starbucks, especially if it is late/not everyone wants to go/ he hasn't checked with parents.


This is how I feel, when I provide carpooling, I wouldn't dream of making any sort of stop! I see it as my job to get the kids home, period.

But I am also in the camp of people who are annoyed by the endless stream of "special" snacks at all youth sports, starting at the preschool age. Little guys don't need a treat because they kicked a ball around for an hour. And I guess this feels like an extension of that. BUT, my kids aren't middler schoolers yet, and aren't doing sports yet beyond entry level, so I know not of what I speak :)

[dogmom]

I would absolutely say something - nicely, clearly, but say something. BUT I would only say something if I 1) was super annoyed by it - ie if it happened once a month, that would not be enough to annoy me to the point of saying something. More often or regularly, yes; and 2) I was absolutely fine with the alternative, which is that I would have to drive and leave the carpool.

Also, don't know if posters have suggested this, but another possibility is to approach dad with a 'can we talk about this' attitude, assuming that he is a kind person and not a jerk. SO you could say, 'hey carpooling dad, I wanted to talk to you about something. Can we brainstorm? I know that you want to go to Starbucks. My kid is having a problem, though, because she is EXHAUSTED at night and needs a lot of sleep and I'd like her home earlier. Is there some way that we can work this out? I understand your need for stopping, but I also want to get her home. We are in this carpool together and I want to make it work."

And then, frankly, if he is rude and can't brainstorm, then just leave the carpool politely. I just can't IMAGINE that a grown man would hear that and still say 'screw it, I'm sticking with my plan to go out of my way to get Starbucks anyway, I don't care about your daughter or sleep.'

I'm the one where the Dad bought McDonalds fries for a year for his son on the way home and didn't share with the other two boys in the car pool, lol, but I think this is good advice no matter where you fall on the stops/no stops debate. I think part of the discussion was about the OP sending an email because it just has too much disaster potential. Definitely an in person conversation. You are exactly right, if someone is going to be rude to your face if it tells you a lot about this issue. (That's assuming one can approach it in a very neutral way and not get then on the defensive right away. Which is probably why most of us would just suck it up and deal because we don't have the patience for that.

And this is why I shouted to the skies in joy when my DS announced he was going to quit sports in 8th grade.

[TwinFoxes]

Not to digress, but have you seen the big tin of Starbucks hot chocolate at Costco? :)

Uh, no! I may be adding it to my shopping list (if I'm brave enough to go in the next week or so.) Thanks for the tip.

[TwinFoxes]

Apologies to OP, who sounds like she has worked out something that will work for her. (Yay!)

And honestly, not to belabor the point,but just to say that because I am a literate adult I can find things at Starbucks that I'm certain don't have coffee in them. But there are a host of other things that I would have to seriously research so if a friend said "get this xxx" *I* would not know if it had coffee in it.

Why wouldn't you just ask? I don't get why you're making it into something difficult involving research. "Hi, does the mocha Frappuccino have caffeine?" Research complete. I'm assuming your older kids know the religious laws and wouldn't want to break them...wouldn't they ask, knowing they're in a coffee place? I don't think you're giving them enough credit. Even if their friend says "try a latte, they're good" you don't think their thought process would be "I'm in a cafe, I don't know what's in a latte, maybe I should ask, or buy a lemonade instead." And again, you weren't the only one who made the comment about "not knowing what to order".

[Jeanne]

I've been in sports car pools for 8 years now involving anywhere from 3 to 6 kids. I'll have another 2 years of it before my youngest can drive herself to these club practices that are 3-4 times per week.

The way to to alleviate any aggravation is to have a meet up point where kids are picked up and dropped off. There is no way that I or any other parent is picking up or dropping off multiple kids. Even when everyone is in the same area, that is a huge time suck and none of us have time for that. We all meet at the same place and go from there both ways. And if a parent can't get their kid there, there is always another parent who can get them there with the favor repaid along the line. On the way home, all kids text their parents when 10 minutes out from the meet up point since practice can run late or kids are just slow moving getting into the car to come home.

We are blessed to have a stellar convenience store chain here and these stores are everywhere. They have everything food and drink wise including gas. Kids and parents will sometimes go into the store for dinner or snacks but meeting there ensures you do what you want for your family.

Perhaps suggest this type of arrangement next year? I wouldn't ask this Dad to stop the Starbucks run. It's not occurring with any great frequency and it could illicit an eye roll situation to your DD from the other kids and to you as a high maintenance parent - even if that's not the situation.

FWIW, my kids have been in Starbucks since they were little because I'm a coffee lover. I never allowed them to have caffeinated drinks prior to HS. It's a stimulant and I use it as such and know what is does. I just didn't feel it appropriate to them. There are also a ton of other drinks that have no caffeine so it's never been an issue. Additionally, I am not one for the high maintenance drink order. I get a coffee. $3-6 for a specialty drink is a lot of money and while I have it to spend, I don't indulge my kids with it much. Trying to teach fiscal responsibility and all.

As for the concern of coffee vs. religion, I believe Mormon's have rules about coffee and hot caffeinated beverages. This doesn't apparently extend to soda though. Or at least it doesn't to my Mormon coworkers. They drink plenty of Diet Coke.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I find this thread hilarious. I cannot drink coffee at all (makes me physically ill) and DH does not drink it either. My parents did not drink coffee at all and neither do my in-laws so neither DH or I grew up with it. I am extremely sensitive to caffeine so I rarely have it.

Yet i I find this whole “wouldn’t know what to do at Starbucks” puzzling and funny. If you have never been to one then I would not make assumptions of what you think it is like (I think that is a huge disconnect here).There are probably a dozen things off the top of my head that I can think of to get at Starbucks that do not have coffee or caffeine at all. Hot chocolate is an obvious choice, and they have many frappucinos that dont have coffee. Herbal tea. People go there for lunch all the time (there is one across my work) . When u walk in, there are pastries, croissants, sandwiches and packs of nuts, cookies , orange juice , fruit etc.

I live in area where many parents would be grateful if carpool parent took their kids for a treat after practice (even if they had to pay their own). So this dad maybe thinks he same thing, that the other girls want to have it too. I imagine most middle schoolers would love going to Starbucks even if it was late. He is not being rude, even though you wouldn’t do the same thing. Not every one is super strict about bedtimes (I’m not) or if their kids eat out at certain place. The problem is the sense is judgy-ness that comes across, even if unintentional. I personally think if u are on the stricter side of these things then the onus is on you to handle it and not expect others to be so accommodating. I’m with TwinFoxes here- we don’t do carpools or potlucks either! 😅 I recognize that compared to others in my area I’m a bit more strict re:food and other things and thus it’s just easier for me for DH and I to handle everything on our own.

My kids have maybe been in a Starbucks 4 times, mostly while we were on vacation or at an airport. I can tell u that if amother carpool parent took my 8yo Ds to Starbucks woth other kids, he’d be in 7th heaven, and would absolutely have no problem figuring out something to order. 😉 my kids are old enough to know that kids aren’t supposed to have coffee or caffeine (plus they hate the taste) but theyd be all up cake balls, scones, hot chocolate and the thousand other treats they have there that have nothing to do with coffee.

[bisous]

Why wouldn't you just ask? I don't get why you're making it into something difficult involving research. "Hi, does the mocha Frappuccino have caffeine?" Research complete. I'm assuming your older kids know the religious laws and wouldn't want to break them...wouldn't they ask, knowing they're in a coffee place? I don't think you're giving them enough credit. Even if their friend says "try a latte, they're good" you don't think their thought process would be "I'm in a cafe, I don't know what's in a latte, maybe I should ask, or buy a lemonade instead." And again, you weren't the only one who made the comment about "not knowing what to order".

My kids probably wouldn’t ask the right questions. It’s not caffeine—it’s coffee. If it didn’t say “coffee” I can see my kid getting tripped up. I drank tea in 6th grade when a classmate did a presentation on Japan because.... I drank herbal tea at home and assumed because it look the same color it was fine. Maybe that’s not the brightest thing in the world but I wasn’t terribly Street smart as a kid and neither are my own children. It wasn’t a big deal at all for me and if my kids skipped up it wouldn’t be a big deal for them either. But I wouldn’t assume that kids could navigate the menu easily when trying to avoid coffee at Starbucks.

Funny and true story. As a 21 yo sister missionary in France we stopped into a patisserie to buy a cake to celebrate a birthday. I bought a Black Forest cake. It tasted kinda weird. Had no idea it was soaked in liquor and didn’t recognize that flavor, lol. I was with my companion. Two college aged women who have lived on their own for years made that mistake. Yeah, I can see my 11yo LOVING a mocha Frappuccino (that’s a thing right?) from Starbucks. And hey—maybe there’s no coffee in it at all (I don’t even know).

It’s not a huge deal. But it’s a thing. Maybe if you (General you) know Mormon kids and have a thought to bring them into a Starbucks try just talking to their parents first or make sure their selection doesn’t have coffee or tea. We’re not forbidden from Starbucks or anything but it’s NOT that easy to tell what’s ok to order and what isn’t. I’ve seen a couple of “cheat sheets” going around Pinterest for finding non-coffee drinks there but I haven’t really read up on them.

[marymoo86]

As for the concern of coffee vs. religion, I believe Mormon's have rules about coffee and hot caffeinated beverages. This doesn't apparently extend to soda though. Or at least it doesn't to my Mormon coworkers. They drink plenty of Diet Coke.

I had to look this up b/c it's all news to me about diet restrictions beyond the obvious alcohol.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41351251

And seems like it isn't "caffeine" per se? Hot drinks seems to indicate any type of hot tea?
https://www.mormon.org/blog/do-mormons-drink-coffee

[bisous]

I had to look this up b/c it's all news to me about diet restrictions beyond the obvious alcohol.

https://www.bbc.com/news/world-us-canada-41351251

And seems like it isn't "caffeine" per se? Hot drinks seems to indicate any type of hot tea?
https://www.mormon.org/blog/do-mormons-drink-coffee

It’s coffee or black tea. Herbal tea is ok. Caffeinated soda is ok but a lot of Mormons abstain from it anyway.

[westwoodmom04]

In my mind, once you agree to a car pool, you really can’t complain about the behavior of other parents unless they forget to get the kids or there is some other safety issue. You just can’t tell other adults how to handle their responsibilities like they are your employees. How would you feel if the other parents complained you never stopped when the kids were hungry? You would be super annoyed and would not want to change your routine because you are handling your turns in the way you believe appropriate.

It also seems to be a big deal about what seems to be no more than an extra 15 to 20 minutes. One of my kids has practice until 9 and it is less than 10 minutes away. We don’t car pool or stop for snacks and we are never home before 9:30, because it takes time to pack up, chit chat with teammates on the way out, and then walk to car. One reason people chose not to car pool is that it always adds extra time if each kid is dropped off at their house.

Stopping for snacks with a tween/teen is different than a younger kid. Adolescents can be hungry all the time. My kids are always asking for more food and my older child walks to Starbucks with her friends after school not infrequently. One of the teachers takes their small home room there at the end of each semester. I know every area is different but it would not occur to me that Starbucks is viewed as a weird treat given that it can be found in so many airports, hotels, and even Targets and grocery stores.

[jacksmomtobe]

OP Here....as someone mentioned this is starting to be like the old yoga pants thread. To clarify when I originally posted I did not calculate that there would only be 4 more of these winter practices where this Dad would drive. I will let it go.

Last night DD said she would be ok not going to Starbucks when the Dad brought it up and girl #3 echoed this but his Daughter wanted to go so they went. DD said she pays for herself however per my DD the Dad pays for his daughter and girl #3 as girl #3's parents do not know that the girls are stopping (per DD the girl's parents would not be ok with them stopping because they want her to eat healthy). I picked up on girl #3's parents being a bit more strict in this area and confirmed it with my DD but I don't believe the Dad driving realizes this. To also clarify the girls are only getting drinks that are more like treats not getting things to eat because they are hungry. I know that the Dad is just trying to do a nice thing. They were originally getting a drink that contains caffeine but did not realize it. In the fall they were stopping up to 2xs a week but the practices did not end as late and were at a different location so the Starbucks was not so much off route. It is hard to explain but for the winter practices the Starbucks is 15 minutes out of the way to get there due to traffic and road configuration but then not so much time to get back to the regular route. The location is open until 9:30. Meeting for a centralized pick up would not solve this as they are stopping in the area of the practice. I also think family 3 would have a harder time with this. They have younger and more kids. As far as an in person conversation...I do not see these parents except from afar as they drop off my daughter to have any kind of in person conversation. I think to approach them then or via a separate phone call would be harder to pull off in a low key way as I never converse with them in these fashions. All of our conversations are via email. My daughter is not on their daughter's team so when the outdoor season resumes I will not see them at games. It felt it would be more awkward for me to drop out of the car pool then try to address this issue in a low key manner however not everyone here agreed that I could make this request without appearing to be judgmental so as I said above I will let it go. At this point I will see what the spring schedule ends up being and then decide what to do.

[squimp]

Good luck OP. I am still with you on saying something to the parent, although I'd probably also give up this late in the season.
Good for your DD for speaking up, sounds like the Dad chose his kid over the wishes of the other two.

[almostmom]

We do lots of carpools to sports practices and activities. Definitely makes everyone's lives easier, especially with the longer distance places. Occasionally I'll stop, or another parent will stop, to get the girls a treat. I think it makes my dd feel good that I'm doing that, fun for the group, etc.

But every time, after such a late practice? I would absolutely say something. I'd email and say something similar to what others said - It's been so nice of you to take the girls to starbucks after practice, but my dd gets a little anxious about getting to bed so late on a school night, and I know how much she needs her sleep, so I was wondering if it would be ok to request you not stop so they can get home sooner? Thanks so much, and sorry to have to make this request!"

[bisous]

OP Here....as someone mentioned this is starting to be like the old yoga pants thread. To clarify when I originally posted I did not calculate that there would only be 4 more of these winter practices where this Dad would drive. I will let it go.

Last night DD said she would be ok not going to Starbucks when the Dad brought it up and girl #3 echoed this but his Daughter wanted to go so they went. DD said she pays for herself however per my DD the Dad pays for his daughter and girl #3 as girl #3's parents do not know that the girls are stopping (per DD the girl's parents would not be ok with them stopping because they want her to eat healthy). I picked up on girl #3's parents being a bit more strict in this area and confirmed it with my DD but I don't believe the Dad driving realizes this. To also clarify the girls are only getting drinks that are more like treats not getting things to eat because they are hungry. I know that the Dad is just trying to do a nice thing. They were originally getting a drink that contains caffeine but did not realize it. In the fall they were stopping up to 2xs a week but the practices did not end as late and were at a different location so the Starbucks was not so much off route. It is hard to explain but for the winter practices the Starbucks is 15 minutes out of the way to get there due to traffic and road configuration but then not so much time to get back to the regular route. The location is open until 9:30. Meeting for a centralized pick up would not solve this as they are stopping in the area of the practice. I also think family 3 would have a harder time with this. They have younger and more kids. As far as an in person conversation...I do not see these parents except from afar as they drop off my daughter to have any kind of in person conversation. I think to approach them then or via a separate phone call would be harder to pull off in a low key way as I never converse with them in these fashions. All of our conversations are via email. My daughter is not on their daughter's team so when the outdoor season resumes I will not see them at games. It felt it would be more awkward for me to drop out of the car pool then try to address this issue in a low key manner however not everyone here agreed that I could make this request without appearing to be judgmental so as I said above I will let it go. At this point I will see what the spring schedule ends up being and then decide what to do.

Sounds like a good plan OP!

[TwinFoxes]

My kids probably wouldn’t ask the right questions. It’s not caffeine—it’s coffee. If it didn’t say “coffee” I can see my kid getting tripped up. I drank tea in 6th grade when a classmate did a presentation on Japan because.... I drank herbal tea at home and assumed because it look the same color it was fine. Maybe that’s not the brightest thing in the world but I wasn’t terribly Street smart as a kid and neither are my own children. It wasn’t a big deal at all for me and if my kids skipped up it wouldn’t be a big deal for them either. But I wouldn’t assume that kids could navigate the menu easily when trying to avoid coffee at Starbucks.

Funny and true story. As a 21 yo sister missionary in France we stopped into a patisserie to buy a cake to celebrate a birthday. I bought a Black Forest cake. It tasted kinda weird. Had no idea it was soaked in liquor and didn’t recognize that flavor, lol. I was with my companion. Two college aged women who have lived on their own for years made that mistake. Yeah, I can see my 11yo LOVING a mocha Frappuccino (that’s a thing right?) from Starbucks. And hey—maybe there’s no coffee in it at all (I don’t even know).

It’s not a huge deal. But it’s a thing. Maybe if you (General you) know Mormon kids and have a thought to bring them into a Starbucks try just talking to their parents first or make sure their selection doesn’t have coffee or tea. We’re not forbidden from Starbucks or anything but it’s NOT that easy to tell what’s ok to order and what isn’t. I’ve seen a couple of “cheat sheets” going around Pinterest for finding non-coffee drinks there but I haven’t really read up on them.

I agree, your family is clearly not cut out for Starbucks and should avoid them if you're not willing to ask "does ___ have coffee in it?" I don't equate asking "does this have coffee in it" with being street smart, but okay. I guess my kids have learned a lot on the mean streets of Virginia.

But for the other people who don't have religious restrictions, I don't understand why they wouldn't be able to figure out what to order.


I find this thread hilarious. I cannot drink coffee at all (makes me physically ill) and DH does not drink it either. My parents did not drink coffee at all and neither do my in-laws so neither DH or I grew up with it. I am extremely sensitive to caffeine so I rarely have it.

Yet i I find this whole “wouldn’t know what to do at Starbucks” puzzling and funny. If you have never been to one then I would not make assumptions of what you think it is like (I think that is a huge disconnect here).There are probably a dozen things off the top of my head that I can think of to get at Starbucks that do not have coffee or caffeine at all. Hot chocolate is an obvious choice, and they have many frappucinos that dont have coffee. Herbal tea. People go there for lunch all the time (there is one across my work) . When u walk in, there are pastries, croissants, sandwiches and packs of nuts, cookies , orange juice , fruit etc.

My kids have maybe been in a Starbucks 4 times, mostly while we were on vacation or at an airport. I can tell u that if amother carpool parent took my 8yo Ds to Starbucks woth other kids, he’d be in 7th heaven, and would absolutely have no problem figuring out something to order.  my kids are old enough to know that kids aren’t supposed to have coffee or caffeine (plus they hate the taste) but theyd be all up cake balls, scones, hot chocolate and the thousand other treats they have there that have nothing to do with coffee.

I'm so glad you understand what I'm saying. It's a restaurant. It has a menu...like every other restaurant.

[mom2binsd]

If the girls are that hungry, pack a snack for the drive home. Easy solution to the hunger problem.

I pack my DS a sandwich, chocolate milk for muscle recovery, and a cheese stick. It's an hour drive and he's been in the ice for 1.5 hours. The other parents do the same.

Occasionally we stop at McDonald's (gasp!) before hitting the road because it's cheap, fast and convenient and I or the other parent buy for all 3 boys.

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[westwoodmom04]

If the girls are that hungry, pack a snack for the drive home. Easy solution to the hunger problem.

I pack my DS a sandwich, chocolate milk for muscle recovery, and a cheese stick. It's an hour drive and he's been in the ice for 1.5 hours. The other parents do the same.

Occasionally we stop at McDonald's (gasp!) before hitting the road because it's cheap, fast and convenient and I or the other parent buy for all 3 boys.

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That’s one solution. Another is stopping for a snack. Both address the same issue. Different parents are going to have different solutions to the same isssue, and generally in life one adult doesn’t get to tell another which to choose.

[nfceagles]

I agree, your family is clearly not cut out for Starbucks and should avoid them if you're not willing to ask "does ___ have coffee in it?" I don't equate asking "does this have coffee in it" with being street smart, but okay. I guess my kids have learned a lot on the mean streets of Virginia.

I find this unnecessarily snarky to someone just trying to participate politely in a discussion.

Out of curiosity I went to the Starbucks menu online. All 8 of the juicy drinks shown here contain coffee. I would never have thought to ask if Mango Dragonfruit Lemonade Starbucks Refresher Beverage contains coffee. Certainly we can all imagine a kid or adult ordering such a drink without realizing it had coffee or thinking it necessary to ask.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/6461087ed7df76f31e9a8b79b352262d.jpg

Many of the drinks pictured below also contain coffee. Perhaps not surprising, except for the fact that it is not limited to the ones that include coffee in the name. It’s not crazy to think someone might conclude that the Frappuccinos labeled Coffee include coffee and the Frappuccinos labeled Blended Beverage don’t. But some of the Blended Beverages do include coffee.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/46349399a2cc70ac58509a42565b641d.jpg

It’s not crazy to think the Starbucks menu is confusing especially for someone hoping to avoid coffee and/or caffeine for religious or health or sleep-related reasons.



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[MMMommy]

I think the Starbucks Refresher drinks don't have coffee, but they have caffeine. I do wish they had the Refresher flavor type drinks, but without caffeine. That would be a nice alternative.

[nfceagles]

I think the Starbucks Refresher drinks don't have coffee, but they have caffeine. I do wish they had the Refresher flavor type drinks, but without caffeine. That would be a nice alternative.

They contain coffee extract.


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[Kindra178]

Nfc- I don’t think Tf was trying to be snarky, I think she was trying to combat the sentiment that a 12 year old could not handle a Starbucks order even if she was never there before (clearly op’s dd has the Sb app like 90 percent of middje schoolers in the nation).

My ds has nut allergies and has been ordering himself there for years. And yes, he has the app.


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[bisous]

I find this unnecessarily snarky to someone just trying to participate politely in a discussion.

Out of curiosity I went to the Starbucks menu online. All 8 of the juicy drinks shown here contain coffee. I would never have thought to ask if Mango Dragonfruit Lemonade Starbucks Refresher Beverage contains coffee. Certainly we can all imagine a kid or adult ordering such a drink without realizing it had coffee or thinking it necessary to ask.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/6461087ed7df76f31e9a8b79b352262d.jpg

Many of the drinks pictured below also contain coffee. Perhaps not surprising, except for the fact that it is not limited to the ones that include coffee in the name. It’s not crazy to think someone might conclude that the Frappuccinos labeled Coffee include coffee and the Frappuccinos labeled Blended Beverage don’t. But some of the Blended Beverages do include coffee.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/46349399a2cc70ac58509a42565b641d.jpg

It’s not crazy to think the Starbucks menu is confusing especially for someone hoping to avoid coffee and/or caffeine for religious or health or sleep-related reasons.



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Thanks. :) That's a great illustration.

We don't go to Starbucks and perhaps you can see why. But it would be an issue if my kids were brought there against my knowledge which is kinda what I was speaking to.

Not all (or most) will have religious issues there but there are so many dietary issues these days too. Having a kid with type 1 diabetes I am sensitive to that aspect too. I'm sure the parents on here that carpool and bring their kids friends along for treats are most likely more conscientious than the Dad in this post but I do think it is something to consider.

[MMMommy]

They contain coffee extract.


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My mistake! Wow, that is nuts! Is it necessary to have coffee in those kinds of fruity drinks? I guess people really want the pick-me-up! Good to know!

[gymnbomb]

Why wouldn't you just ask? I don't get why you're making it into something difficult involving research. "Hi, does the mocha Frappuccino have caffeine?" Research complete. I'm assuming your older kids know the religious laws and wouldn't want to break them...wouldn't they ask, knowing they're in a coffee place? I don't think you're giving them enough credit. Even if their friend says "try a latte, they're good" you don't think their thought process would be "I'm in a cafe, I don't know what's in a latte, maybe I should ask, or buy a lemonade instead." And again, you weren't the only one who made the comment about "not knowing what to order".

When I commented about not knowing what to order, I didn't mean that I couldn't read the menu and find something I was willing to eat or drink. I meant it as an example of how much Starbucks is not on my radar. If someone mentioned it I wouldn't think "Oh, a _____ sounds good!" I would think "Eh, whatever" or "no thanks."

[DualvansMommy]

Thanks. :) That's a great illustration.

We don't go to Starbucks and perhaps you can see why. But it would be an issue if my kids were brought there against my knowledge which is kinda what I was speaking to.

Not all (or most) will have religious issues there but there are so many dietary issues these days too. Having a kid with type 1 diabetes I am sensitive to that aspect too. I'm sure the parents on here that carpool and bring their kids friends along for treats are most likely more conscientious than the Dad in this post but I do think it is something to consider.

But twin foxes point is ask though. It’s not hard. DH and I teach our boys to order for themselves since they could talk.

Starbucks is just like any other cafes, quick stop gap stores, etc. I’m a FA mom so I ask tons of questions if I go in a place 1st time or unfamiliar to us as a family, and make my allergic DS2 to advocate for himself and ask questions.

It’s a good practice regardless of religion non withstanding.


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[bisous]

But twin foxes point is ask though. It’s not hard. DH and I teach our boys to order for themselves since they could talk.

Starbucks is just like any other cafes, quick stop gap stores, etc. I’m a FA mom so I ask tons of questions if I go in a place 1st time or unfamiliar to us as a family, and make my allergic DS2 to advocate for himself and ask questions.

It’s a good practice regardless of religion non withstanding.


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I agree with you on this point. I just haven't really taken the time to instruct my kids about it because it hasn't come up for us before. Honestly with regard to Starbucks I'll probably just tell them to get a snack or else ask for hot chocolate. That's easy enough. And I'll warn them something along the lines of "the drinks look really tasty but most of them have some kind of coffee in them so just get hot chocolate or water".

I guess MY point is that I haven't had this conversation with my kids. We don't eat out often (we probably NEED to with the older kids just so they aren't awkward!) and we don't do a lot of treats so we haven't had this conversation yet. This thread has been eye opening for me because it would never occur to me that my child would be brought to a Starbucks without my permission. So I guess now I know I need to do this!

So I just need to have the right kind of conversation. Even the "does this have coffee in it?" question needs to be at least introduced to the kids so they know what to ask for. They've never really been any place before where that was even on their radar (akin to my lack of asking the patissiere if there was alcohol in my cake, lol).

So I'll have this talk with them. Again, not a huge deal. It seems like people are pretty defensive about it. I do think it is good to be aware that this isn't so straightforward for everyone.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Thanks. :) That's a great illustration.

We don't go to Starbucks and perhaps you can see why. But it would be an issue if my kids were brought there against my knowledge which is kinda what I was speaking to.

Not all (or most) will have religious issues there but there are so many dietary issues these days too. Having a kid with type 1 diabetes I am sensitive to that aspect too. I'm sure the parents on here that carpool and bring their kids friends along for treats are most likely more conscientious than the Dad in this post but I do think it is something to consider.

Do you really need to have plans for your big kids run by you first? Maybe this thread is s good chance to talk with your kids about what to do on an impromptu treat stop? I send my teen out with some money and say, “have fun!” Even ds2, when I send him out with his friends parents, I don’t always know all the stops they’ll make on an outing. I’ve certainly taken their friends out for a bonus treat and never thought I’d have to clear it first.


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[nfceagles]

[QUOTE=DualvansMommy;4320270]But twin foxes point is ask though. It’s not hard. DH and I teach our boys to order for themselves since they could talk.
[\QUOTE]

Up post she said “I’m in a cafe, I don’t know what’s in a latte, maybe I should ask, or just order a lemonade instead.” My point being that at Starbucks even that approach could land you with a drink with coffee since several of their lemonade-type beverages contain coffee.

I have a child with several life threatening food allergies too. It’s probably the reason we’ve been to Starbucks so infrequently as he’d have to stick to bottled beverages for the most part.


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[westwoodmom04]

My mistake! Wow, that is nuts! Is it necessary to have coffee in those kinds of fruity drinks? I guess people really want the pick-me-up! Good to know!


They use green coffee extract because it is a natural source of caffeine. The drinks don’t taste at all like coffee and have around 55 mg of caffeine (compared with a cup of coffee which is around 330 mg). It’s also less caffeine than a can of soda which is 90mg plus, depending on brand.

[MSWR0319]

I agree with you on this point. I just haven't really taken the time to instruct my kids about it because it hasn't come up for us before. Honestly with regard to Starbucks I'll probably just tell them to get a snack or else ask for hot chocolate. That's easy enough. And I'll warn them something along the lines of "the drinks look really tasty but most of them have some kind of coffee in them so just get hot chocolate or water".

I guess MY point is that I haven't had this conversation with my kids. We don't eat out often (we probably NEED to with the older kids just so they aren't awkward!) and we don't do a lot of treats so we haven't had this conversation yet. This thread has been eye opening for me because it would never occur to me that my child would be brought to a Starbucks without my permission. So I guess now I know I need to do this!

So I just need to have the right kind of conversation. Even the "does this have coffee in it?" question needs to be at least introduced to the kids so they know what to ask for. They've never really been any place before where that was even on their radar (akin to my lack of asking the patissiere if there was alcohol in my cake, lol).

So I'll have this talk with them. Again, not a huge deal. It seems like people are pretty defensive about it. I do think it is good to be aware that this isn't so straightforward for everyone.

This is a great time to have a conversation with them about drinks/food in general since there are things they should avoid. I'm another FA mom and my son knows to ask questions and read labels. He's still not super comfortable and worried he's asking the wrong questions, because a mistake could kill him, but he tries. And we keep helping him learn. Even if your kids may never go into a Starbucks, they could go into a convenience store and what if someone suggests a cold coffee drink to them? Do they know to check labels? Or at their friends house? They could run into coffee anywhere so it's a good conversation to have with them. You could even take them to the grocery store and show them how to read the labels and what to look for if need be.

[Kindra178]

Hmmm, I never clear stops with other parents. No one clears them with me either.


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[georgiegirl]

Hmmm, I never clear stops with other parents. No one clears them with me either.


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If there’s a late night stop involved, the parent will usually text the others in the carpool (or have the kids text their parents). Otherwise, extra stops in the afternoon are fine. Granted I’ve been carpooling with the same couple of people for 2.5 years (4-5 times a week). And our night carpool is pretty late (practice ends anytime between 8:45 and 9:15 with an extra 15 min of showering/locker room time.)


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[Momit]

Hmmm, I never clear stops with other parents. No one clears them with me either.


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This is what I was thinking too. When the kids were in first and second grade, maybe. But now no.

[trcy]

Can I just say, this thread is cracking me up.

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[Melaine]

I agree with you on this point. I just haven't really taken the time to instruct my kids about it because it hasn't come up for us before. Honestly with regard to Starbucks I'll probably just tell them to get a snack or else ask for hot chocolate. That's easy enough. And I'll warn them something along the lines of "the drinks look really tasty but most of them have some kind of coffee in them so just get hot chocolate or water".

I guess MY point is that I haven't had this conversation with my kids. We don't eat out often (we probably NEED to with the older kids just so they aren't awkward!) and we don't do a lot of treats so we haven't had this conversation yet. This thread has been eye opening for me because it would never occur to me that my child would be brought to a Starbucks without my permission. So I guess now I know I need to do this!

So I just need to have the right kind of conversation. Even the "does this have coffee in it?" question needs to be at least introduced to the kids so they know what to ask for. They've never really been any place before where that was even on their radar (akin to my lack of asking the patissiere if there was alcohol in my cake, lol).

So I'll have this talk with them. Again, not a huge deal. It seems like people are pretty defensive about it. I do think it is good to be aware that this isn't so straightforward for everyone.

I am totally in the same boat as you. I think of Starbucks as an adult treat, and I only go there myself maybe 2 times a year. My 12 daughters have never been to starbucks and I can easily see them accidentally ordering caffeine which they wouldn't do on purpose. They also do not typically carry cash, certainly not to sport practice. I am with you, I would be very surprised for them to be taken to starbucks instead of home right after practice.

[squimp]

LOL, this thread really does illustrate how different people are! And who knew Sbux was so controversial! Last night I texted the mom of one of my carpool girls what Jamba Juice smoothie she liked. Mom responded in about 3 minutes, I picked up the smoothies on my way to pick up the girls, her DD was pleasantly surprised, everyone is happy, win-win-win-win. IME it's good to keep those communication channels open.

[TwinFoxes]

I find this unnecessarily snarky to someone just trying to participate politely in a discussion.



I was trying to be funny, not snarky. Or as Bisous said earlier, "cheeky".

[nfceagles]

I was trying to be funny, not snarky. Or as Bisous said earlier, "cheeky".

My bad then. I read it in the wrong tone.


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[athompson]

The horse is dead. Yoga pants. Why do I keep looking at this thread:rotflmao:

[trcy]

The horse is dead. Yoga pants. Why do I keep looking at this thread:rotflmao:[emoji23]

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[essnce629]

Wait, doesn't hot chocolate have caffeine??? All chocolate does.

Bisous it's no coffee or teas with caffeine, but soda and chocolate with caffeine is fine??? [emoji848] What about decaf coffee? Green and white teas?

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[bisous]

Wait, doesn't hot chocolate have caffeine??? All chocolate does.

Bisous it's no coffee or teas with caffeine, but soda and chocolate with caffeine is fine??? [emoji848] What about decaf coffee? Green and white teas?

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Yeah, I don’t know the “why” of it all but I do follow it. Chocolate is ok. Diet Coke (and others) is ok. Red tea (rooibos) is ok. White, green, and black are not ok and neither is coffee. I don’t know the rule on decaf. I don’t drink it. I think it’s not ok.

[Kindra178]

Yeah, I don’t know the “why” of it all but I do follow it. Chocolate is ok. Diet Coke (and others) is ok. Red tea (rooibos) is ok. White, green, and black are not ok and neither is coffee. I don’t know the rule on decaf. I don’t drink it. I think it’s not ok.

I checked - it seems to be a ban on hot drinks.


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[bisous]

I checked - it seems to be a ban on hot drinks.


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Not all hot drinks. See my post above. :)

[HannaAddict]

I agree with you on this point. I just haven't really taken the time to instruct my kids about it because it hasn't come up for us before. Honestly with regard to Starbucks I'll probably just tell them to get a snack or else ask for hot chocolate. That's easy enough. And I'll warn them something along the lines of "the drinks look really tasty but most of them have some kind of coffee in them so just get hot chocolate or water".

I guess MY point is that I haven't had this conversation with my kids. We don't eat out often (we probably NEED to with the older kids just so they aren't awkward!) and we don't do a lot of treats so we haven't had this conversation yet. This thread has been eye opening for me because it would never occur to me that my child would be brought to a Starbucks without my permission. So I guess now I know I need to do this!

So I just need to have the right kind of conversation. Even the "does this have coffee in it?" question needs to be at least introduced to the kids so they know what to ask for. They've never really been any place before where that was even on their radar (akin to my lack of asking the patissiere if there was alcohol in my cake, lol).

So I'll have this talk with them. Again, not a huge deal. It seems like people are pretty defensive about it. I do think it is good to be aware that this isn't so straightforward for everyone.

It would never occur to me to ask permission to take a kid to a Starbucks. We take elementary kids for a snack before play dates sometimes and totally normal. People aren’t defensive about Starbucks but I think flabbergasted at how it is controversial or something odd to do. In my social circle McDonalds would be met with gasps of horror vs Starbucks. Babies go and get steamers of milk, moms talk, it is a regular meeting place. Kids can walk from our house to get a cookie. It is just funny to see how much consternation it causes. But the Starbucks people aren’t forcing anyone to hang out or drink coffee, or is just a stop. I’d rather Starbucks than a gross minimart. This seems more about the control factor and again wanting to impose stricter things on others and having the non-driving parent dictate the terms of the other driver parents. And why I hate most carpools and potlucks too.


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[HannaAddict]

I am totally in the same boat as you. I think of Starbucks as an adult treat, and I only go there myself maybe 2 times a year. My 12 daughters have never been to starbucks and I can easily see them accidentally ordering caffeine which they wouldn't do on purpose. They also do not typically carry cash, certainly not to sport practice. I am with you, I would be very surprised for them to be taken to starbucks instead of home right after practice.

I’ve been to Starbucks multiple times in one day, many time. And kids here have the Starbucks app or Apple Pay so they don’t carry cash. Our local cupcake shop doesn’t even accept cash, something I find troubling as a barrier for those without means and exclusionary on many levels. But I’m seeing it more and more.


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[nfceagles]

Wait, doesn't hot chocolate have caffeine??? All chocolate does.

Bisous it's no coffee or teas with caffeine, but soda and chocolate with caffeine is fine??? [emoji848] What about decaf coffee? Green and white teas?

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It’s no coffee or tea, no mention of caffeine specifically. The revelation was written in the early 1800s so it doesn’t mention stuff like Diet Coke. Prophets have said it means coffee and tea from the tea plant (not herbal tea). People are advised to pray and use their own relationship with God to make decisions on the less clear stuff. As many Mormons are prone to be strict and believe it is about taking care of the body God have us, some also refrain from caffeinated sodas as well which isn’t going to hurt anyone.

ETA: Oh and alcohol too of course.


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[♥ms.pacman♥]

It would never occur to me to ask permission to take a kid to a Starbucks. We take elementary kids for a snack before play dates sometimes and totally normal. People aren’t defensive about Starbucks but I think flabbergasted at how it is controversial or something odd to do. In my social circle McDonalds would be met with gasps of horror vs Starbucks. Babies go and get steamers of milk, moms talk, it is a regular meeting place. Kids can walk from our house to get a cookie. It is just funny to see how much consternation it causes. But the Starbucks people aren’t forcing anyone to hang out or drink coffee, or is just a stop. I’d rather Starbucks than a gross minimart. This seems more about the control factor and again wanting to impose stricter things on others and having the non-driving parent dictate the terms of the other driver parents. And why I hate most carpools and potlucks too.


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:yeahthat:
I agree it is about the control factor.
I guess what gets me is the assumption that we know all about what our kids do and what they don’t understand, especially for middle schoolers. I think we don’t give kids enough credit. Kids know waaaay more than we think they do.

We don’t have any sort of video games at home but one day I asked ds about fortnite and he knew everything about it and was telling me various things about it, as if he had played it many times. Kids talk to other kids and absorb lots of info.

Where we live people are pretty lax about eating out and staying up late and that sort of thing. People are also pretty lax about car seats too which is a big reason why no one else has ever driven my kids. :). Now that they are older though I think it’s different , they have their own personal responsibility and I try not to sweat these kinds of things. It think is important for my kids to form social relationships and they’d be recluse if I imposed such strict rules on other parents. Aroundhere all middle schoolers have phones. Ive seen many kids (4th or 5th grade) at Starbucks with their parents (dad gets coffee, kids gets a pastry) working on their homework or school project (free Wi-Fi).

[California]

Control? What I am seeing is an avoidance of having a conversation. Have we really lost the art of simply talking with each other? I mean that seriously- because to me I’m sensing underneath all the reasons given an underlying anxiety over having authentic communication. Maybe we need a bigger vision of what is possible. If kids should be able to ask about caffeinated beverages at Starbucks, then two adults should be able to discuss carpool arrangements! I agree that the original statement needed some help. But I hope we can all give each other enough credit to trust that we can talk with other parents. Especially if done with a kind attitude (a little cheekiness helps too, for sure.) We are each other’s best allies in this not-so-easy job of raising kids.

[marymoo86]

It would never occur to me to ask permission to take a kid to a Starbucks. We take elementary kids for a snack before play dates sometimes and totally normal. People aren’t defensive about Starbucks but I think flabbergasted at how it is controversial or something odd to do. In my social circle McDonalds would be met with gasps of horror vs Starbucks. Babies go and get steamers of milk, moms talk, it is a regular meeting place. Kids can walk from our house to get a cookie. It is just funny to see how much consternation it causes. But the Starbucks people aren’t forcing anyone to hang out or drink coffee, or is just a stop. I’d rather Starbucks than a gross minimart. This seems more about the control factor and again wanting to impose stricter things on others and having the non-driving parent dictate the terms of the other driver parents. And why I hate most carpools and potlucks too.


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Interesting the "respect" Starbucks gets. There are some excellent choices there - sous vide egg bites is one. However, given the gross amount of sugar in most of the non coffee drinks and in the food treats - not like it is winning any health awards here. I'm doubting kids are picking the best nutrional items when visiting. A hot chocolate has 43grams of sugar for pete's sake. Fraps can have 50+grams - no better than your average soda and still contain artificial ingredients. Why wouldn't that be the best option right before bedtime??

So probably not the nutrition aspect driving the location preference.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

Control? What I am seeing is an avoidance of having a conversation. Have we really lost the art of simply talking with each other? I mean that seriously- because to me I’m sensing underneath all the reasons given an underlying anxiety over having authentic communication. Maybe we need a bigger vision of what is possible. If kids should be able to ask about caffeinated beverages at Starbucks, then two adults should be able to discuss carpool arrangements! I agree that the original statement needed some help. But I hope we can all give each other enough credit to trust that we can talk with other parents. Especially if done with a kind attitude (a little cheekiness helps too, for sure.) We are each other’s best allies in this not-so-easy job of raising kids.

I think this is a really good point, though I think it is very hard to discuss this sort of thing via email. I don’t know , I often think emails like this can come across as passive- aggressive and can often be misinterpreted or taken the wrong way. I think op did right thing at the end with her DD bringing it up and asking if they could not stop there. I personally would rather that than get email from another parent that could be perceived as judgment.

[Myira]

Interesting the "respect" Starbucks gets. There are some excellent choices there - sous vide egg bites is one. However, given the gross amount of sugar in most of the non coffee drinks and in the food treats - not like it is winning any health awards here. I'm doubting kids are picking the best nutrional items when visiting. A hot chocolate has 43grams of sugar for pete's sake. Fraps can have 50+grams - no better than your average soda and still contain artificial ingredients. Why wouldn't that be the best option right before bedtime??

So probably not the nutrition aspect driving the location preference.

I could not agree more! I cannot tolerate the overly sweet chai tea latte even after asking for the lightly sweetened version! As a vegan, I’ve never found it easy to grab a bite there for myself!
My kids 10 and 7 of course love Starbucks and would not pass up any opportunity to visit one! The cakes and madeleines are their favorites.


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[mommy111]

I love how this thread has evolved from carpools to religion to strip clubs. This is the new yoga pants/lululemon thread!!

[essnce629]

I love how this thread has evolved from carpools to religion to strip clubs. This is the new yoga pants/lululemon thread!![emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23] [emoji23]

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[♥ms.pacman♥]

I love how this thread has evolved from carpools to religion to strip clubs. This is the new yoga pants/lululemon thread!!

Lol yes!! That thread was from 2011, 2012? I can’t remember. There was also that other thread about bringing outside food to a movie theater, and taking your shoes off inside someone’s house. Good times ... :lol:

[abh5e8]

I'm also amused at the approval of starbucks and the disapproval of McDonald's on a nutrition or health basis. Starbucks is loaded with sugar, in almost every item they sell. I do frequent Starbucks and even take kids on occasion to do some school work, but I only drink decaff coffee and let the kids get herbal tea. I use it as a teaching moment, too help then make the most nutritious choice possible, even in what is basically a candy store.

[ett]

I'm also amused at the approval of starbucks and the disapproval of McDonald's on a nutrition or health basis.

:yeahthat: I definitely wouldn't consider Starbucks healthy, unless you get something like the herbal tea and I doubt most kids would order that on their own.

[calebsmama03]

I find this unnecessarily snarky to someone just trying to participate politely in a discussion.

Out of curiosity I went to the Starbucks menu online. All 8 of the juicy drinks shown here contain coffee. I would never have thought to ask if Mango Dragonfruit Lemonade Starbucks Refresher Beverage contains coffee. Certainly we can all imagine a kid or adult ordering such a drink without realizing it had coffee or thinking it necessary to ask.

https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/6461087ed7df76f31e9a8b79b352262d.jpg

Many of the drinks pictured below also contain coffee. Perhaps not surprising, except for the fact that it is not limited to the ones that include coffee in the name. It’s not crazy to think someone might conclude that the Frappuccinos labeled Coffee include coffee and the Frappuccinos labeled Blended Beverage don’t. But some of the Blended Beverages do include coffee.
https://uploads.tapatalk-cdn.com/20181220/46349399a2cc70ac58509a42565b641d.jpg

It’s not crazy to think the Starbucks menu is confusing especially for someone hoping to avoid coffee and/or caffeine for religious or health or sleep-related reasons.



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I have no desire to wade into the debate here but have to say thank you for pointing that out! I am not a Starbucks novice- I’m a gold member and have the app (both mainly because I buy stuff for my DH and kids ) and I had NO idea those fruity drinks contain coffee/caffeine! I am super sensitive to caffeine- can’t drink even decaf coffe because it gives me palpitations and Makes me incredibly dizzy to the point I can’t function. I have to be careful with too much chocolate and no colas etc. if I accidentally ordered one of those and got the caffeine infusion I’d be physically ill and would have no idea why. Lesson learned- always ask about caffeine at Sbx!

[mom2binsd]

I love how this thread has evolved from carpools to religion to strip clubs. This is the new yoga pants/lululemon thread!!

I missed the mention of strip clubs, I mean if the dad in the original post was stopping at a strip club, I'd send the email for sure !!!!

[mommy111]

All carpools we’ve ever done stop for treats. Not every time but totally common. And these are middle schoolers. People are clutching their pearls like he’s taking kindergartners to a strip club! (I’m joking!) It is Starbucks, well lit, clean, healthy options available and a social hub for kids in our circle. And who even knows why, I truly doubt he’s getting a latte at 9 pm unless he’s exhausted and needs to stay awake for the drive. I seriously think it could be a rest stop to avoid the parks bathrooms, but whatevs, if you don’t like it, drive your own child and then you can make sure they aren’t sullied by a fast food or Starbucks stop.


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Here ya go!! 🤣 Although, arguably, kindergartners probably see more skin than they would see in strip clubs, I’d be more concerned about middle schoolers in strip clubs 🤣
But maybe that should best be left for a strip clubs thread

[mom2binsd]

I think I have a great idea for a poll, but usually Annie is the one to do the polls :ROTFLMAO:

[magnoliaparadise]

OP Here....as someone mentioned this is starting to be like the old yoga pants thread. To clarify when I originally posted I did not calculate that there would only be 4 more of these winter practices where this Dad would drive. I will let it go.

Last night DD said she would be ok not going to Starbucks when the Dad brought it up and girl #3 echoed this but his Daughter wanted to go so they went. DD said she pays for herself however per my DD the Dad pays for his daughter and girl #3 as girl #3's parents do not know that the girls are stopping (per DD the girl's parents would not be ok with them stopping because they want her to eat healthy). I picked up on girl #3's parents being a bit more strict in this area and confirmed it with my DD but I don't believe the Dad driving realizes this. To also clarify the girls are only getting drinks that are more like treats not getting things to eat because they are hungry. I know that the Dad is just trying to do a nice thing. They were originally getting a drink that contains caffeine but did not realize it. In the fall they were stopping up to 2xs a week but the practices did not end as late and were at a different location so the Starbucks was not so much off route. It is hard to explain but for the winter practices the Starbucks is 15 minutes out of the way to get there due to traffic and road configuration but then not so much time to get back to the regular route. The location is open until 9:30. Meeting for a centralized pick up would not solve this as they are stopping in the area of the practice. I also think family 3 would have a harder time with this. They have younger and more kids. As far as an in person conversation...I do not see these parents except from afar as they drop off my daughter to have any kind of in person conversation. I think to approach them then or via a separate phone call would be harder to pull off in a low key way as I never converse with them in these fashions. All of our conversations are via email. My daughter is not on their daughter's team so when the outdoor season resumes I will not see them at games. It felt it would be more awkward for me to drop out of the car pool then try to address this issue in a low key manner however not everyone here agreed that I could make this request without appearing to be judgmental so as I said above I will let it go. At this point I will see what the spring schedule ends up being and then decide what to do.

OP, just saw this. My one thought is do *not* carpool with the dad family in the Spring. No matter what, this will be him MO. The fact that he did *not* listen to your daughter and the other daughter when they didn't want to go? That's insane. Frankly, if I wanted to make an errand and even *one* kid said they didn't want me to, I would not do it (unless it was a legit emergency and I felt my needs overrode theirs, but this would not count as one). I'm kind of shocked by the dad. Please please take care of yourself and do not go to the carpool again in the Spring.

[magnoliaparadise]

But twin foxes point is ask though. It’s not hard. DH and I teach our boys to order for themselves since they could talk.

Starbucks is just like any other cafes, quick stop gap stores, etc. I’m a FA mom so I ask tons of questions if I go in a place 1st time or unfamiliar to us as a family, and make my allergic DS2 to advocate for himself and ask questions.

It’s a good practice regardless of religion non withstanding.


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What's an FA mom? I googled and still can't find it... I just found "fat admirer" or "f***ing awesome". Is that what it means?

[magnoliaparadise]

Interesting the "respect" Starbucks gets. There are some excellent choices there - sous vide egg bites is one. However, given the gross amount of sugar in most of the non coffee drinks and in the food treats - not like it is winning any health awards here. I'm doubting kids are picking the best nutrional items when visiting. A hot chocolate has 43grams of sugar for pete's sake. Fraps can have 50+grams - no better than your average soda and still contain artificial ingredients. Why wouldn't that be the best option right before bedtime??

So probably not the nutrition aspect driving the location preference.

Yes, this is spot on. The sugar factor is as important as the caffeine (hot chocolate, mentioned as an option sometimes here, obviously has both). This may not upset all parents, but I can see it upsetting some. I try very hard to keep my kids away from sugar a set amount of time before bed. Not only because I've generally been guided to do that, but because one of my kids has a very tough time going to sleep. Like very.

The kids in the carpool can just go to Starbucks and decline the sugar-y drink, which they would be able to suss out, even more so than caffeine. But if it were my kid, I'd rather not put her in that position late at night.

And, an aside, I feel really sad for that third girl in the car who basically *asked* the carpooling dad not to go to Starbucks and had to go anyway, and is basically lying to her parents through omission that the carpooler is going to Starbucks. And it sounds like she is not comfortable with it. That' sad and feels not right.

Anyway, I'm super unimpressed with the dad and as I said before, I would stay way away from that family for carpools. And I would do my best to save the third girl's family from joining, too, somehow.

[essnce629]

What's an FA mom? I googled and still can't find it... I just found "fat admirer" or "f***ing awesome". Is that what it means?

FA = Food Allergy

[magnoliaparadise]

FA = Food Allergy

Oh, LOL, that makes more sense!