Help me understand tween (mean) girl dynamics...

[alootikki]

...and best way to help/coach DD!

We are at the community pool right now. DD is almost 11, heading into 6th grade. There are 4 girls from her school here, all playing together. One girl used to be a very good friend (has been over for multiple sleepovers) but they were not in the same class last year and didn’t really hang out. (I think the friend found other friends in her new class, and moved on from DD). Another of the girls sat at the same lunch table as DD all of last year, has been over to our house to play (but hasn’t reciprocated). DD has always been shyer/reserved, and struggles with joining/breaking into groups. She will consider certain girls to be her good friends, but I don’t think those girls consider DD to be at the same level - which breaks my heart!

She is pretty tight lipped about social interactions in general, but I’m sure it’s hurtful some of these girls that she considers friends kind of moved on and don’t reach out any more.

Anyway, I pointed out to her that the girls were here and asked if she wanted to say hi. She said “nah” and moved on to another part of the pool. I’m sure that if one of them came over and asked, she would immediately join in. But none of them are.

I wish she were confident enough to go up to them and say “hi guys, what are you doing? Can I play?” I feel like it’s a vicious cycle, interactions like this keep undermining her confidence and make me feel like there are deeper issues at play. I don’t want to meet her feel bad about feeling shy, or intimidated, but I do want to encourage her to try!


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[alootikki]

Update: “sleepover” friend said hi to her, as the girls ran past into the bathroom. I encouraged DD to go into the bathroom for a minute, say hi and ask what they were up to. DD refused [emoji849] I told her she didn’t have to necessarily hang out with them, but at least say hi and make conversation for a minute or two. Stuff like this frustrates me!!


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[cvanbrunt]

Nothing you are describing is "mean". Friendships change and will change throughout middle school. Your daughter seems to be handling it fine. Don't force her to try and break into conversations if she doesn't want to. What just transpired is totally normal. The girls weren't being mean, they were hanging out together.

[AnnieW625]

Nothing you are describing is "mean". Friendships change and will change throughout middle school. Your daughter seems to be handling it fine. Don't force her to try and break into conversations if she doesn't want to. What just transpired is totally normal. The girls weren't being mean, they were hanging out together.

Yes to this. I don’t think what you are describing is mean girl behavior at all. Where you expecting these girls to invite DD and now she feels left out? If that was the case and there was talk among the group about going to the pool and then they didn’t include your DD then I worried about that, but yes what the op described is totally normal for an 11 year old age set and up.


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[alootikki]

I totally agree that the other girls are not being mean. Sorry, let me clarify! I don’t understand why DD is so intimidated to join them, when two of the girls are girls that she was either friends with or sat with all year long. Which makes me wonder if “mean girl” behavior took place at school or something!


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[alootikki]

Updated again! DD eventually joined them and played for a while. From what I could see, a sleepover friend was being nice and including her, the other two girls were tolerating her if not overly friendly. That’s fine! It was just freaking me out that she seemed too intimidated to even say hello to the group, when she knows at least two of them very well…


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[elbert]

OP, I hear you loud and clear. My daughter is very similar, and I can imagine a situation like that playing out and it being painful to watch. Glad it wasn’t so bad in the end.

What was very interesting to me to see was when DD was at a local play with a group of girls and a friend of hers from school came, too, with her parents. When I commented that DD was “over there” and the mother suggested the other girl join them, she got the tween glare and the other girl asked that they go sit on the opposite side of the theater. It was a bit of a wake-up call that sometimes it’s hard for other kids, too, to be somewhere alone or with family and then see a group of their peers together. For those of us with kids who have struggled a little more, it hurts...but I do think it’s a normal thing...


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[alootikki]

Thanks for commiserating elbert! As an extrovert, it's hard to watch sometimes but I try to be super conscious of not projecting my feelings onto DD or making her feel self-conscious! I do feel that she comes across as either not confident or unfriendly in these situations sometimes!

[TwinFoxes]

One thing social skills groups teach is wait and observe a group before leaping in. They also teach that not every group should be joined. I think your DD did great!

[HannaAddict]

It won’t help her to try and force her way in, I’m glad it worked out and she interacted with them. Girls, not all but many, do this exclusionary stuff and ignore girls they have been friends with and it is hurtful and especially hard to watch, even if it isn’t active bullying or what others would call mean. There are lots of subtleties and passive aggression with girls in middle school and beyond. It sounds like your daughter did great. I wouldn’t try and make her contact them if it happens again. Saying hi is fine, but they know full well she is there. The kiss of death is a kid who tries too hard or a parent who intervenes. Pleasant but not desperate or trying to be included works better. And glad it worked for your daughter. The book Queen Bees talks about the frustrating and often painful world of girl adolescence.






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[hbridge]

As you described, this is not "mean girl" behavior. HOWEVER, that does not mean there is not something going on under the surface...

That being said, one of the best things about "town pools" is that the kids can work on social skills at their own comfort level. I would just assume that you daughter did not really want to "break into" the social group when you first arrived. However, I would ask her about it a day later. A simple "I notice you didn't go right over and play with X,Y,Z at the pool yesterday. Is something going on?". With my DD, I would probably get a "I wanted to work on my diving" or something...

You can advise her, but please do not get involved in the moment unless she asks you to.

[TwinFoxes]

I encouraged DD to go into the bathroom for a minute, say hi and ask what they were up to. DD refused [emoji849] I told her she didn’t have to necessarily hang out with them, but at least say hi and make conversation for a minute or two.


I somehow missed this 2nd post earlier. I'm definitely more of an extrovert but I'm with your daughter here. It would have been super awkward IMO for her to just pop up in the bathroom. Following people to the bathroom is not a way to make friends!

[123LuckyMom]

You are so right, OP, to recognize that you need to stop projecting your feelings or opinions into your DD! She handled herself perfectly, and it worked out as it should. She knows the dynamics in her peer group better than you do, and you’re right to realize it’s important for you to trust her instincts and resulting behavior. You want her to recognize that not everyone will want to be her friend, and that that’s okay. People are allowed not to like her, and she’s allowed not to like others. In neither instance is that something that needs to be overcome or corrected, and in neither instance does that mean that there’s anything wrong with the unliked person. Liking is simply a matter of taste, and not everyone likes every food, or every movie, or every person, and sometimes there are periods of time when that item is a favorite and other times when they’re the opposite. It doesn’t mean others won’t like them or that they are unlikable or that the disfavor is permanent. The last thing you would want to do, OP, is suggest to your daughter that the reason these other girls are not her BFFs is because of something she is or isn’t doing right. That shifts the message from “It’s okay if you’re not everyone’s cup of tea. Look for the people who appreciate you” to “If only you would be friendlier or different than you are and overcome your instincts and try to convince them otherwise, those girls would be your friends.” Of course, I’m exaggerating, but it’s always better not to reinforce the idea that if people don’t like you, you’re the problem. Sometimes that may be true if your behavior is unkind, but most of the time, it’s not. It’s just a matter of taste. Your daughter had good instincts, and the situation resolved in the best possible way. Keep trusting her to know how to navigate her social world. She’s got this!


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[westwoodmom04]

You are so right, OP, to recognize that you need to stop projecting your feelings or opinions into your DD! She handled herself perfectly, and it worked out as it should. She knows the dynamics in her peer group better than you do, and you’re right to realize it’s important for you to trust her instincts and resulting behavior. You want her to recognize that not everyone will want to be her friend, and that that’s okay. People are allowed not to like her, and she’s allowed not to like others. In neither instance is that something that needs to be overcome or corrected, and in neither instance does that mean that there’s anything wrong with the unliked person. Liking is simply a matter of taste, and not everyone likes every food, or every movie, or every person, and sometimes there are periods of time when that item is a favorite and other times when they’re the opposite. It doesn’t mean others won’t like them or that they are unlikable or that the disfavor is permanent. The last thing you would want to do, OP, is suggest to your daughter that the reason these other girls are not her BFFs is because of something she is or isn’t doing right. That shifts the message from “It’s okay if you’re not everyone’s cup of tea. Look for the people who appreciate you” to “If only you would be friendlier or different than you are and overcome your instincts and try to convince them otherwise, those girls would be your friends.” Of course, I’m exaggerating, but it’s always better not to reinforce the idea that if people don’t like you, you’re the problem. Sometimes that may be true if your behavior is unkind, but most of the time, it’s not. It’s just a matter of taste. Your daughter had good instincts, and the situation resolved in the best possible way. Keep trusting her to know how to navigate her social world. She’s got this!


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This is excellent advice! Having recently gone through this stage with my oldest, friendship groups are very fluid in middle school. I wouldn’t put too much thought as to why dd might want to be with a certain girl one month and not be interested a month later, or vice versa. Kids are also starting to care more about compatibility and shared interests than in elementary. Lastly, kids mature at different rates and that can affect friendships.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I somehow missed this 2nd post earlier. I'm definitely more of an extrovert but I'm with your daughter here. It would have been super awkward IMO for her to just pop up in the bathroom. Following people to the bathroom is not a way to make friends!

So true! OP- you need to let your dd figure out how she wants to navigate things. Don't push her. She'll find the people she's comfortable with. And it might evolve and change these next few years! Ds1's social group really evolved between 6-8th grade.


You are so right, OP, to recognize that you need to stop projecting your feelings or opinions into your DD! She handled herself perfectly, and it worked out as it should. She knows the dynamics in her peer group better than you do, and you’re right to realize it’s important for you to trust her instincts and resulting behavior. You want her to recognize that not everyone will want to be her friend, and that that’s okay. People are allowed not to like her, and she’s allowed not to like others. In neither instance is that something that needs to be overcome or corrected, and in neither instance does that mean that there’s anything wrong with the unliked person. Liking is simply a matter of taste, and not everyone likes every food, or every movie, or every person, and sometimes there are periods of time when that item is a favorite and other times when they’re the opposite. It doesn’t mean others won’t like them or that they are unlikable or that the disfavor is permanent. The last thing you would want to do, OP, is suggest to your daughter that the reason these other girls are not her BFFs is because of something she is or isn’t doing right. That shifts the message from “It’s okay if you’re not everyone’s cup of tea. Look for the people who appreciate you” to “If only you would be friendlier or different than you are and overcome your instincts and try to convince them otherwise, those girls would be your friends.” Of course, I’m exaggerating, but it’s always better not to reinforce the idea that if people don’t like you, you’re the problem. Sometimes that may be true if your behavior is unkind, but most of the time, it’s not. It’s just a matter of taste. Your daughter had good instincts, and the situation resolved in the best possible way. Keep trusting her to know how to navigate her social world. She’s got this!


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Really great advice!


This is excellent advice! Having recently gone through this stage with my oldest, friendship groups are very fluid in middle school. I wouldn’t put too much thought as to why dd might want to be with a certain girl one month and not be interested a month later, or vice versa. Kids are also starting to care more about compatibility and shared interests than in elementary. Lastly, kids mature at different rates and that can affect friendships.

The maturity thing is big, especially in middle school. Some kids will start to be more interested in dating while others still aren't. Groups tend to splinter off and reform based on things like that but also just interests and personality. It's hard as an extrovert to parent an introvert- btdt. But, I've let him chart his course as best I can (not saying I don't have occasional suggestions from the peanut gallery...) and he has developed such a fantastic group of friends. Hang in there. Know that introverts can be plenty happy on their own too- being alone doesn't mean lonely.