How to Know When It's Time (Old Dog- may be sensitive topic)

[Indianamom2]

This may be sensitive for some, but this is new territory for me with regards to our dog.

We have an almost 13 year old german shep mix dog who is definitely showing her age lately. She still moves relatively well, but she really can't jump at all, has a lot of trouble getting into our van to get to the vet/boarding. She has arthritis for sure. She has struggled with some pretty tough uti's in the last few months and though those are cleared, she is now rather incontinent (moreso by the day, it seems.) She is still eating and drinking, but her appetite is not great and it takes her all morning and into the afternoon to eat her breakfast when it used to be gone in 10 min or less. She has almost always followed me around the house and been my shadow and generally stays in the same room where I am working (I work from home), but lately she has been laying on the tile floor in the kitchen by her food bowl much of the day. Two days ago, I found her there, laying in a large puddle of her own urine. She had been out an hour or two before and has never been one to go in the house. I know she can't help it. Even when she is and has been laying down resting, she tends to have spells of pretty heavy rapid breathing, basically panting, and then makes a sound almost like she is clearing her throat (maybe coughing?) This happens quite frequently throughout the day.

So with all the info, for those who have walked this road before, how did you know when it was time? Is our girl showing signs of pain? (I tend to think so, but I can't tell whether it's annoying, but tolerable pain or approaching truly unbearable type of pain.) She is the sweetest, most gentle dog ever, and I do not want her to suffer. I just wonder if what I am seeing is normal aging issues or more end-of-life issues. Any advice would be much appreciated.

[doberbrat]

:hug: Its a sucky time for sure. Panting is often a sign of pain. The incontinence could be helped by diapers and poise pads.

Generally, when their appetite goes, I believe its time. My dogs have always been food hounds. The day Jake turned his nose up at a banana I knew. I called the vet in tears.

Only you and your vet can really know but I'd be very concerned if my dogs no longer wanted to be in the same room with me constantly. If its a comfort thing, I'd try and make them more comfortable in the room I'm in. IF its just too hard to get from 1 room to another, that might be a quality of life issue indicating its time.

I'm sorry. There's nothing worse about pet ownership.:hug:

[urquie]

I heard a great piece of advice from an animal behavior therapist... food, fun and follow... if your dog doesn’t have at least one of those, it’s time.

In hindsight, I’ve waited too long every time, it’s such a hard decision to make.

I’m so sorry. :grouphug:

[Kestrel]

If she is eating a normal amount, but it takes her a long time to do it... I would suspect she has tooth issues. Very common in an old dog to cause pain and feeding changes. Has your vet checked that?

If she has arthritis, that can be helped with supplements and/or pain medicine.

If you've tried everything, and she's still in pain and uncomfortable.. it might be time. Our vet told us to make a list of his ten favorite things, and when he can't/won't do them anymore, it's most likely time.

I'm sorry. It doesn't get any easier.

[niccig]

I’m sorry. Start preparing the family. We waited too long with our last dog and it was a shock to DH and DS when we came home one day and needed to call the emergency vet. I’d been the one having the conversations with the vet, so I was more prepared.


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[dogmom]

It certainly sounds like it is approaching the end. I think a lot of factors influence the decision including the dogs age, pain, ability to eat, etc. In my mind if I can’t see my dog having joy at any time over a week it’s time. I also think it’s OK to think about family life. We’ve had 5 dogs, and my decisions about when it was time before kids, with young kids and with older kids are different because it effects how much emotional and physical energy I have to give to the dog. One of my Labs has very bad arthritis and started falling down the stairs when my kids were young. I could not handle my dog getting hurt when my toddler was there. I also think whether you can be home during the day matters.

You might want to contact the vet and talk to them. My vet is good about talking over the phone. If it’s arthritis and lack of appetite a course of steroids might be worth trying first. You can always get some tramadol at night for the pain. This combo bought another week for another of my Labs and allowed him to eat and take a few outside walks and wag his tail before we made the decision.

[Indianamom2]

I appreciate all the thoughtful responses. With regards to possible tooth issues, she has been checked and is good there. Her teeth are actually in surprisingly good shape, according to the vet. She is still following me around some, but just not as much. She still wags her tail some and seems to like to be petted, but she doesn't roll over for belly rubs like she used to. She can still get up and down the stairs, but it's getting slower and harder. The rest of the family knows the situation and some of what I am hoping to avoid is waking up to find her unable to stand/walk because I know how upsetting that would be for her and my kids. I guess it's time to have a chat with the vet and see what she thinks. She's known Bella her entire life with us.

[twowhat?]

I'm sorry you're in this transition!! It's so hard! I would consider gating off the stairs (we have a 15-16yo dog and we have gated off the stairs since it's no longer really safe for her to go up and down). If she still follows you a bit and still wags her tail a bit and eats, maybe it's not quite time but it's time to definitely start thinking, like you're doing. I would make modifications to make her comfortable. Old dogs want to be near you but may not have the energy to get up and move every time, so if that means spending more time in the room that's comfortable for the dog, then do that. Diapers would help with the incontinence, as well as taking her outside more frequently, as dogs get older they just can't hold as long. Our dog was showing signs of canine cognitive dysfunction (and dogs compensate for this so well that by the time you notice, it's likely been going on for a while). SAM-e supplements have turned her into a different dog! I was quite shocked...it got rid of the panting and pacing and inability to settle and sleep through the night. That might be something to try if you think there's a cognitive component.

I think I would just watch carefully for any continued decline and then make a decision if she continues to decline. For me, being there when it happens is important (our other dog died unexpectedly when I was away on a business trip, and that really tore me up, so I think I have a little PTSD from that). Don't feel bad to make a decision that would "conveniently" ensure that you and family members are able to be with her in her last moments. Big hugs.

[BunnyBee]

There’s a medicine called Proin that can be helpful for incontinence in spayed females. That being said, when you start to wonder, you’re probably getting close. Comforting thoughts for you and your pup.

[keh602]

Hugs to you. We just said goodbye to our 16/17-year-old dog exactly two weeks ago. Our sweet girl had been declining for months, and we talked to the vet many times about it. We'd go in for an appointment, and the vet would just hand me the tissues as soon as I started talking. She knew how much I was struggling. In July she said that we were in a gray area where she couldn't say it was definitely time, but that I should remember that it was going to be a gift for Zoey no matter when we made the decision. I told her at that time that Zoey had been eagerly eating, but the vet asked if she was eating for enjoyment or survival. I think she was still enjoying it at that time, but I think I also noticed the point where that changed. I agonized about what to do and what to tell the kids for probably too long. Ultimately, I decided Zoey had had enough when she stopped eating all of her food (it was chicken and rice at that point, so she loved it), she lost the ability to get herself around, and she couldn't control her bowels. I know in my heart it was the right decision, but it was not an easy one.

[maydaymommy]

ok, I can't read the prior responses, because we just went through this (less than a week ago and I'm more emotional than I expected to be) so I apologize if I'm redundant and if I go on way too long.

Our dog was 14. Everyone told me I would know when it was time. I didn't believe them because we spent six months thinking he'd just died, or was about to, and he always perked back up.

<I just deleted all the individual specifics, because, I just can't...and the universal stuff is more useful, anyway.>

Seven months ago, I thought we needed to do the very difficult thing, and put the dog down because he was suffering. I made an appointment to have the animal hospice people come over to our house. Yep, that's a thing! There are vets who come to your house and they will help develop a plan to keep your pet comfortable or they euthanize right in your home, where your dog is most comfortable, avoiding the anxiety some animals get just going into the vet's office. In our area, the service is called Lap of Love. I think it's all over, with local affiliates. In the end (ugh, no pun intended) we didn't use this service, but everyone I know who did only has wonderful things to say about it. That sounds weird, like how could your pet's death in your house be good? But again and again, that is what I have heard.

As I said, we didn't end up using this service, but I learned some things in the process of consulting with them and talking to a lot of people. I can share those things with you. I think most people who are dealing with this hope that when their pet has to go, it is serene and peaceful, like as if the pet just curled up in a favorite spot, or right by a loved ones feet, and didn't wake up. I don't know how often that actually happens. But I do know that one of the few things we can control is the way in which our pet dies. We have the ability to make it happen peacefully. The other thing people say, along with that, and the thing about "you'll know when it's time," is that people only regret not putting their pet down sooner. As awful as it is, they don't regret that they did it, just that they had to. We tried hard to monitor our dog's quality of life. They say that in addition to noting if your dog still does the things he likes, pay attention to whether or not your dog still does things he/she doesn't like. (ex. If your dog goes nuts if bell rings, then they start being non-reactive as they lay there, it's an additional indicator of quality of life.)

I asked people for details about what it would like, when I would suddenly know it's time. No one had anything for me to go on, but they were right. In our case, I thought it would be another "regular" morning, comforting our dog while he seemed weak, followed by a few hours of staring to see if he was still breathing while he was napping, until later, when he'd wake up, shake it off, and want to play or go out on a walk (that he would want to make much longer than I intended), tail up high, wagging all the time. My husband had gone to work, kids were at school, and very quickly I could tell there was some qualitative difference. At first it was subtle, just looking a little more stunned. I took him out, and he stood there, didn't really go anywhere. We went in and he collapsed. As bad as that sounds, it wasn't actually rare. Our dog had a benign brain tumor from old age that caused seizures, and heart failure. Belabored breathing was normal at times, and he kind of passed out now and then, too, especially after playing. (I guess around the clock care and medication for heart failure and seizures can only do so much for so long.) Sounds crazy, but seizures or fainting didn't usually phase him. But this time, it was obvious that he wanted to get up and he couldn't. He wanted to get up to go poop, but he couldn't manage it and he went right there, laying on his side. For me, that was the big sign of knowing it was time - clearly wanting to do something and not being able to make himself do it

It seemed like a lot of time passed between that moment and ending up in the vet's office, but it was less than an hour. There were frantic, hysterical texts and phone calls of asking my husband if he should come home, and demanding that he get home, and screaming that I didn't want him to come home anyway. I managed some things rationally, like calling to see if "our vet" was in the office, and then a long call with the dog hospice. If they could have had someone at my house at 9:00am, we would have done that. The soonest they could do was 1:00pm. I scheduled it but cancelled later because a few moments after hanging up the phone, we knew we had to go to the vet's office right then, rather than put us or our dog through 4 more hours of what was happening. Keep in mind, we have this dog who has gone from looking like he's on the brink of death to demanding to play fetch or bounding through snow in just a few minutes, at least a hundred times in the past 7 months! In the back of my mind I was thinking of all those times, because it's conceivable that it could happen yet again. Luckily (?) I felt strongly that even if that happened, we couldn't risk a return to the state he was in right then. Plus, kids would get home from school at some point that afternoon.

I'm sure the way I felt is common - the last thing I wanted was to watch our dog struggle to hold onto life, flop around or gasp for breath, and not be able to help him, or have to rush him to the vet, where they would not be able to do anything either. It wasn't that bad. It was relatively quick, and our boys weren't home. So I'm grateful for those things. I am so much sadder than I thought I would be. Our dog's death had been a topic almost every day, in almost cavalier ways, because it had to be. Nothing prepared me for how much it would suck to come home to an empty house, even if it's easier because I'm not checking to see if he's breathing or rushing to get the next set of meds.

I didn't intend to share a sob story, I swear. But maybe it will help someone to hear it and decide to move the process along, like I wish I had done, even though it's awful. A few months ago, our vet said, "look, if you decided to put your dog down now, I wouldn't judge you, or think it's the wrong thing to do..." but he didn't think it *had* to be done yet, or needed to be, for the dog's sake. Realistically, I couldn't have done it then with a lead up like that from the vet. I don't know if there was a clear time between then and last week when I would have known it was time. I wish there had been. I wish I had recognized some interim sign between then and the moment I heard would come, when I'd "know it was time."


The truth is that I wish I had done it sooner for the sake of the people, not for our dog. A dog on the brink of death (but, then...not!) took a big emotional toll on my family. My husband would say it was just a "brief season" of our lives, revolving around staying close to home to care for our dog and sleepless nights (largely for my husband). While the dog truly enriched our lives and seemed to have quality, happy times for six or seven months after we first thought we'd lose him, the cost was very high. I guess that's a double entendre because certainly there was a big financial cost, but I meant the effects it had on my family, mainly me and my kids. Everyone in the house, even those who just visit, felt the weight of uncertainty about whether our dog took his last breath or whether he'd perk up and run around like a puppy in a few minutes, or an hour, as he always seemed to do.

In conclusion, I can say that if you have a trusted vet, talk to them, and consider how your family will be effected. After that, when you think about the dog's quality of life, think about the dog's quality of death, too. We have more control over that than the course of aging or illness.
Good luck.

[wendibird22]

I heard a great piece of advice from an animal behavior therapist... food, fun and follow... if your dog doesn’t have at least one of those, it’s time.

In hindsight, I’ve waited too long every time, it’s such a hard decision to make.

I’m so sorry. :grouphug:


ok, I can't read the prior responses, because we just went through this (less than a week ago and I'm more emotional than I expected to be) so I apologize if I'm redundant and if I go on way too long.

Our dog was 14. Everyone told me I would know when it was time. I didn't believe them because we spent six months thinking he'd just died, or was about to, and he always perked back up.

<I just deleted all the individual specifics, because, I just can't...and the universal stuff is more useful, anyway.>

Seven months ago, I thought we needed to do the very difficult thing, and put the dog down because he was suffering. I made an appointment to have the animal hospice people come over to our house. Yep, that's a thing! There are vets who come to your house and they will help develop a plan to keep your pet comfortable or they euthanize right in your home, where your dog is most comfortable, avoiding the anxiety some animals get just going into the vet's office. In our area, the service is called Lap of Love. I think it's all over, with local affiliates. In the end (ugh, no pun intended) we didn't use this service, but everyone I know who did only has wonderful things to say about it. That sounds weird, like how could your pet's death in your house be good? But again and again, that is what I have heard.

As I said, we didn't end up using this service, but I learned some things in the process of consulting with them and talking to a lot of people. I can share those things with you. I think most people who are dealing with this hope that when their pet has to go, it is serene and peaceful, like as if the pet just curled up in a favorite spot, or right by a loved ones feet, and didn't wake up. I don't know how often that actually happens. But I do know that one of the few things we can control is the way in which our pet dies. We have the ability to make it happen peacefully. The other thing people say, along with that, and the thing about "you'll know when it's time," is that people only regret not putting their pet down sooner. As awful as it is, they don't regret that they did it, just that they had to. We tried hard to monitor our dog's quality of life. They say that in addition to noting if your dog still does the things he likes, pay attention to whether or not your dog still does things he/she doesn't like. (ex. If your dog goes nuts if bell rings, then they start being non-reactive as they lay there, it's an additional indicator of quality of life.)

I asked people for details about what it would like, when I would suddenly know it's time. No one had anything for me to go on, but they were right. In our case, I thought it would be another "regular" morning, comforting our dog while he seemed weak, followed by a few hours of staring to see if he was still breathing while he was napping, until later, when he'd wake up, shake it off, and want to play or go out on a walk (that he would want to make much longer than I intended), tail up high, wagging all the time. My husband had gone to work, kids were at school, and very quickly I could tell there was some qualitative difference. At first it was subtle, just looking a little more stunned. I took him out, and he stood there, didn't really go anywhere. We went in and he collapsed. As bad as that sounds, it wasn't actually rare. Our dog had a benign brain tumor from old age that caused seizures, and heart failure. Belabored breathing was normal at times, and he kind of passed out now and then, too, especially after playing. (I guess around the clock care and medication for heart failure and seizures can only do so much for so long.) Sounds crazy, but seizures or fainting didn't usually phase him. But this time, it was obvious that he wanted to get up and he couldn't. He wanted to get up to go poop, but he couldn't manage it and he went right there, laying on his side. For me, that was the big sign of knowing it was time - clearly wanting to do something and not being able to make himself do it

It seemed like a lot of time passed between that moment and ending up in the vet's office, but it was less than an hour. There were frantic, hysterical texts and phone calls of asking my husband if he should come home, and demanding that he get home, and screaming that I didn't want him to come home anyway. I managed some things rationally, like calling to see if "our vet" was in the office, and then a long call with the dog hospice. If they could have had someone at my house at 9:00am, we would have done that. The soonest they could do was 1:00pm. I scheduled it but cancelled later because a few moments after hanging up the phone, we knew we had to go to the vet's office right then, rather than put us or our dog through 4 more hours of what was happening. Keep in mind, we have this dog who has gone from looking like he's on the brink of death to demanding to play fetch or bounding through snow in just a few minutes, at least a hundred times in the past 7 months! In the back of my mind I was thinking of all those times, because it's conceivable that it could happen yet again. Luckily (?) I felt strongly that even if that happened, we couldn't risk a return to the state he was in right then. Plus, kids would get home from school at some point that afternoon.

I'm sure the way I felt is common - the last thing I wanted was to watch our dog struggle to hold onto life, flop around or gasp for breath, and not be able to help him, or have to rush him to the vet, where they would not be able to do anything either. It wasn't that bad. It was relatively quick, and our boys weren't home. So I'm grateful for those things. I am so much sadder than I thought I would be. Our dog's death had been a topic almost every day, in almost cavalier ways, because it had to be. Nothing prepared me for how much it would suck to come home to an empty house, even if it's easier because I'm not checking to see if he's breathing or rushing to get the next set of meds.

I didn't intend to share a sob story, I swear. But maybe it will help someone to hear it and decide to move the process along, like I wish I had done, even though it's awful. A few months ago, our vet said, "look, if you decided to put your dog down now, I wouldn't judge you, or think it's the wrong thing to do..." but he didn't think it *had* to be done yet, or needed to be, for the dog's sake. Realistically, I couldn't have done it then with a lead up like that from the vet. I don't know if there was a clear time between then and last week when I would have known it was time. I wish there had been. I wish I had recognized some interim sign between then and the moment I heard would come, when I'd "know it was time."


The truth is that I wish I had done it sooner for the sake of the people, not for our dog. A dog on the brink of death (but, then...not!) took a big emotional toll on my family. My husband would say it was just a "brief season" of our lives, revolving around staying close to home to care for our dog and sleepless nights (largely for my husband). While the dog truly enriched our lives and seemed to have quality, happy times for six or seven months after we first thought we'd lose him, the cost was very high. I guess that's a double entendre because certainly there was a big financial cost, but I meant the effects it had on my family, mainly me and my kids. Everyone in the house, even those who just visit, felt the weight of uncertainty about whether our dog took his last breath or whether he'd perk up and run around like a puppy in a few minutes, or an hour, as he always seemed to do.

In conclusion, I can say that if you have a trusted vet, talk to them, and consider how your family will be effected. After that, when you think about the dog's quality of life, think about the dog's quality of death, too. We have more control over that than the course of aging or illness.
Good luck.

Yes to both of these posts. Mayday, thank you for sharing as I know how raw and emotional that was for you.

We put our dog down almost 2yrs ago. He had a benign fatty lipoma on his side that eventually grew to the size of a small nerf football. It didn't impeded his ability to walk, move around, get up stairs or onto the couch, etc but it did rob his body of nutrition. He basically was eating to feed the growth and the rest of him continued to look skinnier and skinnier. We knew sometime that summer that we would likely need to say goodbye to him soon. I was ready. DH was not. Then sometime in early November I had the dog groomer come to groom him (we had a mobile dog groomer that came to your house with a grooming trailer!) and he respectfully declined to groom him and said he worried it would put too much stress on his body. The groomer hadn't seen our dog since the summer and immediately saw what we couldn't/didn't want to see...how frail he had become and how large the mass looked in comparison to his body (he was a 55lb dog). My heart sank that day but I knew the groomer was right and I thanked him profusely for being so honest with me. DH waited a few more weeks to reach a decision and then scheduled the appointment for a Friday late afternoon, giving us the weekend to grieve our loss.

Like stated above and by others, our vet had told us that no one ever regrets putting their dog down too early, only regretting that they waited too long.

While I don't have regrets, FB timehop pics illuminate for me now just how frail our dog had gotten and how big the mass was. We couldn't see it back then. We saw him day-to-day and therefore the change seemed much subtler to us. Seeing those pictures does show me that we wouldn't have been wrong to say goodbye sooner.

I wish you the best as your family reaches the decision that is best for you all and your dear pup. Saying goodbye is never, ever easy.

[doberbrat]

hugs to you maydaymommy :hug:

[Indianamom2]

For those who have replied over the weekend, I really appreciated your responses as well. Bella is doing relatively well right now, but I very much appreciate Maydaymommy's experience because that is kind of where my mind is going right now. I'm not sure we are quite there yet, but probably in the next few months for sure, unless something drastically changes. Since I am with her all day, I can keep a close eye on her and watch for changes. I am truly sorry for all those who have lost their pets....it's tougher than it seems.