Career changes?

[twowhat?]

Well, I'm now at a point where my toxic boss has passive-aggressively abused me so much that I'm officially looking for a new job. I am so sad about it - I actually really like my job, but my boss is just awful and makes me feel like I cannot do anything right which has me gobsmacked because prior to this job I had been extremely successful and well-liked (and this same boss is the person who fought to get me hired!). I get chastised for not making enough of an effort to get to know people (I am trying, I really am - but I am an introvert and clearly I'm now being punished for that), I get questioned on every decision I make as if it's a bad decision, if I happen to not include my boss on an email that I didn't think was worth cluttering up an inbox for, it's assumed I was trying to hide something, I get comments like "you are making sure you get that done before the deadline, right?" and I have never missed a deadline and "you are going to this meeting, right?" as if I was planning on skipping it? I'm such a rule-follower that this really goes beyond anything I would ever have imagined that could have happened to me.

Anyway, I'm sad because the boss is the only problem!!! I love everything else about my job :( But I cannot go on like this.

I've been looking to see if I can move within the company (I generally like the company too) but nothing has come up and to be honest, I need to be as far away from this boss as possible. I'm looking at other companies to try to make a parallel move to a similar role but at the same time I'm contemplating changing careers completely. I am willing to take a great pay cut. I make a lot, and it's unreasonable to think anything else would make that much money unless I went back to school (which I don't want to do) or managed to start a very successful business (unlikely). I'm curious if anyone here has made a drastic career change...and how you went about it. I think I'm kind of struggling with what that might be (like, how could my skills set translate to something else? What else would I actually like?) and whether you sought professional help in making the transition.

[marymoo86]

Honest question as I just had extensive training on this. Sense this seems to be pervasice6 - have you contacted HR to understand what rights you may have?

[twowhat?]

Honest question as I just had extensive training on this. Sense this seems to be pervasice6 - have you contacted HR to understand what rights you may have?

I've thought about it but there is nothing solid to go on other than this kind of passive-aggressive communication. The only solid thing I have is that boss is almost always late for meetings and has canceled meetings with me frequently enough that I started to document. But that by itself isn't enough. And I really don't want to get boss in trouble...this person has been at the company for a while and based on the interactions I see, other people respect this person (at least outwardly). Sigh. I really don't know what else to do other than to jump ship and try not to burn any bridges. My thought is that even if HR does something about it, that wouldn't help me...that would just further worsen my relationship with this boss, right? I'll just look like some person stirring up trouble. This boss "gossips" a lot too about other people, it's never anything nice, so I would bet money that this boss already has plenty of other people thinking how terrible of an employee I am.

And to be fair - I have not communicated to my boss how this style of communication is impacting me, though I plan to.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

We should talk! My dh just made a decision to quit his job yesterday, thus going on to major career change (his second). Basically got tired of bureaucracy and is going to be doing fulll time consulting.

having a boss who isn’t great is draining... Having a bad boss who doesn’t appreciate you and makes you miserable is totally soul-sucking and life is too short.

i have sort of the opposite problem in that I sometimes contemplate changing jobs to make more $ or live somewhere more exciting but I have an amazing boss who is a great mentor so I stay for that reason.

[JustMe]

Hi! I have experienced having a toxic boss in the past, so I know how you feel! From my own experience, I can say it had a horrific effect on me that was even worse than I realized (and I came to understand after leaving). Based on my experience, my vote is to leave one way or another. It is worth the trade-offs although of course you don't want to go out of the frying pan into the fire/you want to move toward something better not just move.

I did not change careers. As you know, I am transitioning to private practice but I recognize some of my own feelings in your post. I loved many things about working in an agency and feel grief that I had to give them up due to boss issues. However, that was a very good reason. I am really struggling right now and feeling incompetent in areas I know I am competent in. So, I don't have much advice but do resonate with a lot of what you say. You ask if people sought professional advice. I was able to get a lot of what I needed from peers who made a similar transition. I also am utilizing facebook groups which, as recently discussed her,e is not ideal but is a support in some ways. I am just about to make some professional contact just to help my self-confidence as I think that would make a difference for me.

[KpbS]

I agree with you--life is too short. In your situation I would either do consulting (if that is an option in your specific field) or look for the same job at a different company or just retire if you can swing it. I'm sorry. I know you have been dealing with this so long! Glad you can get out though. :hug: :hug:

I have no btdt. I never went back after having kids and I don't regret that decision. I liked my job, didn't love it.

[marymoo86]

I've thought about it but there is nothing solid to go on other than this kind of passive-aggressive communication. The only solid thing I have is that boss is almost always late for meetings and has canceled meetings with me frequently enough that I started to document. But that by itself isn't enough. And I really don't want to get boss in trouble...this person has been at the company for a while and based on the interactions I see, other people respect this person (at least outwardly). Sigh. I really don't know what else to do other than to jump ship and try not to burn any bridges. My thought is that even if HR does something about it, that wouldn't help me...that would just further worsen my relationship with this boss, right? I'll just look like some person stirring up trouble. This boss "gossips" a lot too about other people, it's never anything nice, so I would bet money that this boss already has plenty of other people thinking how terrible of an employee I am.

And to be fair - I have not communicated to my boss how this style of communication is impacting me, though I plan to.

I understand that was part of the training I did today. About how one instance it isn't nice but pervasive makes it a hostile work environment/toxic work relationship. At a minimum - even if you do leave, I think it worthwhile to let your HR dept know how you are not thriving in your job. This scenario is exactly what was shown - it was called bullying and abusive. I'd take a look and see how your state views this type of conduct. Gossiping is considered pile-on adding to the toxic environment. I bet you use some of these buzz words you will get HR's attention. Maybe if it doesn't help you - it would help a future employee?

Again - several of the situations the offender had no clue of how the behavior affected the other person. I'd still go on record with HR - then have a conversation with your mgr.

As for as jobs - are the skills transferable to another industry? Such as going from a PM in pharma to tech?

[basil]

Boss sounds terrible, I don't blame you for wanting to get away from that, yet not having anything super specific to go to HR with. Hard to give more specific advice without knowing your field, I think?

Following your thread and the one a few weeks back about going part time as kids got older with a lot of interest. Seems like mid-life career shake up is not uncommon.

I have the opposite problem with a boss and colleagues that I really really like, but an overall organization which is bureaucratic and difficult. I have contemplated moving into a different organization, but then worry about not ending up with as great of a boss. So far, for me, inertia is winning for the moment, but every few weeks I have a moment where something dumb happens and I want to scream "I can't do this anymore!" so maybe it's just a matter of time.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

.

I have the opposite problem with a boss and colleagues that I really really like, but an overall organization which is bureaucratic and difficult. I have contemplated moving into a different organization, but then worry about not ending up with as great of a boss. So far, for me, inertia is winning for the moment, but every few weeks I have a moment where something dumb happens and I want to scream "I can't do this anymore!" so maybe it's just a matter of time.

OMG, this is so me, to a T!!!! Seriously.

i have learned over the past few years that having a great manager who takes time to mentor you and helps you grow in your career is *invaluable* and a RARE find. This is big reason why i'm staying at my current company in my current position. I do like my job as well, even though it can be stressful at times.

[twowhat?]

We should talk! My dh just made a decision to quit his job yesterday, thus going on to major career change (his second). Basically got tired of bureaucracy and is going to be doing fulll time consulting.

having a boss who isn’t great is draining... Having a bad boss who doesn’t appreciate you and makes you miserable is totally soul-sucking and life is too short.

i have sort of the opposite problem in that I sometimes contemplate changing jobs to make more $ or live somewhere more exciting but I have an amazing boss who is a great mentor so I stay for that reason.

I sometimes think I would be so much happier running a doggie daycare, LOL. I would just need a business partner!


Hi! I have experienced having a toxic boss in the past, so I know how you feel! From my own experience, I can say it had a horrific effect on me that was even worse than I realized (and I came to understand after leaving). Based on my experience, my vote is to leave one way or another. It is worth the trade-offs although of course you don't want to go out of the frying pan into the fire/you want to move toward something better not just move.

I did not change careers. As you know, I am transitioning to private practice but I recognize some of my own feelings in your post. I loved many things about working in an agency and feel grief that I had to give them up due to boss issues. However, that was a very good reason. I am really struggling right now and feeling incompetent in areas I know I am competent in. So, I don't have much advice but do resonate with a lot of what you say. You ask if people sought professional advice. I was able to get a lot of what I needed from peers who made a similar transition. I also am utilizing facebook groups which, as recently discussed her,e is not ideal but is a support in some ways. I am just about to make some professional contact just to help my self-confidence as I think that would make a difference for me.

OMG YES you have summed up a lot of how I feel!!! I feel SO incompetent right now as a result of the toxic boss despite the fact that I was previously very successful!!


I understand that was part of the training I did today. About how one instance it isn't nice but pervasive makes it a hostile work environment/toxic work relationship. At a minimum - even if you do leave, I think it worthwhile to let your HR dept know how you are not thriving in your job. This scenario is exactly what was shown - it was called bullying and abusive. I'd take a look and see how your state views this type of conduct. Gossiping is considered pile-on adding to the toxic environment. I bet you use some of these buzz words you will get HR's attention. Maybe if it doesn't help you - it would help a future employee?

Again - several of the situations the offender had no clue of how the behavior affected the other person. I'd still go on record with HR - then have a conversation with your mgr.

As for as jobs - are the skills transferable to another industry? Such as going from a PM in pharma to tech?

I might PM you if you don't mind...would love to know how to figure this out, what those buzz words are for HR, and I don't want to put identifying details out here in public! And yes, I do think my boss probably has no clue how this behavior is making me feel.


OMG, this is so me, to a T!!!! Seriously.

i have learned over the past few years that having a great manager who takes time to mentor you and helps you grow in your career is *invaluable* and a RARE find. This is big reason why i'm staying at my current company in my current position. I do like my job as well, even though it can be stressful at times.

Yes, having a great, or even just a good, manager is KEY. It's so important...I think most people don't realize how important it is to have a good, supportive manager. I would definitely stay at a not-great company but with a great manager.

[StantonHyde]

Just an FYI--you can complain to HR and to your boss's boss but you really have to have documented incidents. And it has to be really bad. I can think of several managers in the healthcare system where I work who should have been fired but were not. They were jerks, not nice, but never did anything illegal. Honestly, I would just look for another job. And I think you should consider seeing a therapist to help you with your feelings of inadequacy--PTSD from a bad boss will get in your way looking for your next job. I would want to process it with somebody and help pull myself together. I never stuck around with bad bosses.

[twowhat?]

Just an FYI--you can complain to HR and to your boss's boss but you really have to have documented incidents. And it has to be really bad. I can think of several managers in the healthcare system where I work who should have been fired but were not. They were jerks, not nice, but never did anything illegal. Honestly, I would just look for another job. And I think you should consider seeing a therapist to help you with your feelings of inadequacy--PTSD from a bad boss will get in your way looking for your next job. I would want to process it with somebody and help pull myself together. I never stuck around with bad bosses.

This is what my initial gut feeling is too. But I wonder whether it is worthy of mentioning anything during my exit interview that might potentially help other employees without burning my bridges? Conventional wisdom says to never say anything bad in your exit interview because if something bothered you and you didn't bring it up directly with your manager, then it's really on you. But what if I brought it up with my manager and nothing improved? Then should I say something during the exit interview? Or maybe I just keep it vague (e.g. "I wasn't thriving and not receiving the type of support I needed despite bringing it to others' attention" or something? I dunno. I guess I'll cross that bridge if I find a new job. It just really sucks because so far I really like the company, and I really like the job. It just sucks so hard that one person can ruin it all.

[JustMe]

This is what my initial gut feeling is too. But I wonder whether it is worthy of mentioning anything during my exit interview that might potentially help other employees without burning my bridges? Conventional wisdom says to never say anything bad in your exit interview because if something bothered you and you didn't bring it up directly with your manager, then it's really on you. But what if I brought it up with my manager and nothing improved? Then should I say something during the exit interview? Or maybe I just keep it vague (e.g. "I wasn't thriving and not receiving the type of support I needed despite bringing it to others' attention" or something? I dunno. I guess I'll cross that bridge if I find a new job. It just really sucks because so far I really like the company, and I really like the job. It just sucks so hard that one person can ruin it all.

It does suck that one person can ruin it all. OTOH, if you deny that to yourself you stay miserable.

As far as the exit interview, I agree with feeling it out a little, but being cautious. I would also first want to know what their policy on reference checks is (If another company calls do they give out details about how they think you did, just confirm the dates you worked their while refusing to give details as is some companies' policy, or something else). Either way I would still be cautious. This sucks too as places can't change without feedback, but I have known people who gave honest feedback in order to help others and ended up regretting it as they were bad-mouthed by the company after that. Of course, part of it depends upon how small your community is and what their policy on references it.

[mommy111]

Have you had a conversation with your boss about what’s going on? I’m assuming that already happened and didn’t help?
Outside of that, I would do a lateral move and not change careers. It sounds like you like your work so why change?

[hellokitty]

I'm sorry that you are going through this. I went through a similar situation about 3 years ago at a job that I loved. It went from a bullying situation from my supervisor's end (she became jealous of the attention I was getting due to my work), and when I reached out to HR, it turned into a mobbing situation and in the end I quit. I made what would be seen as a lateral move, but I miss that particular sector that I was in and am trying to get back into it again. Unfortunately, it means that I have to seek organizations of the type of the toxic organization I quit, meaning they are all located farther away, requiring me to commute. I would not suggest going to HR, IMO they escalated the situation, bc they want to protect their manager, otherwise if they admit that their manager did something wrong, they think that's a liability, they are certainly not there to protect the employee, but the interests of the organization and management.

If you can hire someone who can help you through this professionally, whether that is a career coach or therapist, I would suggest it. Although it's been almost 3 years since I went through the horrible experience that I went through I still feel like I am trying to recover. Yes, it did affect my career trajectory. I was on track for a director position, and lost that momentum, plus my work history now looks odd (I quit, so had a 5 mo job gap, I was desperate to get out). And I often wonder how doing everything "right" resulted in such a horrible outcome. This was my first experience where performing so much better than my peers put a target on my back (for the most part my peers really liked me, it was my supervisor and her favorite employee who was the lowest performer who were a problem). I now realize how important it is to be able to play office politics and it is not really at all about how good of an employee you are, it's about who can play the game and kiss up to the right people. It's left me bitter and confused and due to having standards of my own integrity I find it difficult to play office politics, which is probably another layer of why I feel like I've hit a stagnation in my momentum. My current organization is not as toxic as the one I had left, however it is ginormous and difficult to navigate. I have a weak manager who is not willing to mentor or advocate. So, I am still trying to find someone who I would consider a good mentor, but that has been difficult to do, bc I am not a fan of the majority of the managers at my location.

If you're willing to make a lateral move, your network in your sector will be your best avenue. I got lucky in that I was a liaison who built and maintained partnerships with other organizations and when my now coworker (who I adore) found out I quit, she convinced her leadership to create a job for me. The bright spot in this situation is that she has been a joy to work with, but as I said, we have a weak manager and that has made career advancement difficult. I am basically so good at my job, I could do it with my eyes shut, I need a bigger challenge and am at the point where I am looking outside of the organization.

Anyway, I wanted to offer you some support, it is so hard to be in this situation where your career can be thrown off simply by a person who has determined that they no longer like you. I was shocked, I made my supervisor look awesome and she happily soaked all of that in, but looking back now I also see how insecure she was and bc she knew that I could technically do her job and run circles around her doing it, she no longer saw me as a person, just a threat.

[twowhat?]

Have you had a conversation with your boss about what’s going on? I’m assuming that already happened and didn’t help?
Outside of that, I would do a lateral move and not change careers. It sounds like you like your work so why change?

I have had short conversations with my boss and have expressed my frustration, and boss agreed with me that boss needed to let go of every minute detail. So there's that. And I think boss has been making an effort but it's not really making a big enough difference at this point. It's also difficult to find time to bring stuff up because my boss is constantly late for, or cancels, meetings with me.


I'm sorry that you are going through this. I went through a similar situation about 3 years ago at a job that I loved. It went from a bullying situation from my supervisor's end (she became jealous of the attention I was getting due to my work), and when I reached out to HR, it turned into a mobbing situation and in the end I quit. I made what would be seen as a lateral move, but I miss that particular sector that I was in and am trying to get back into it again. Unfortunately, it means that I have to seek organizations of the type of the toxic organization I quit, meaning they are all located farther away, requiring me to commute. I would not suggest going to HR, IMO they escalated the situation, bc they want to protect their manager, otherwise if they admit that their manager did something wrong, they think that's a liability, they are certainly not there to protect the employee, but the interests of the organization and management.

If you can hire someone who can help you through this professionally, whether that is a career coach or therapist, I would suggest it. Although it's been almost 3 years since I went through the horrible experience that I went through I still feel like I am trying to recover. Yes, it did affect my career trajectory. I was on track for a director position, and lost that momentum, plus my work history now looks odd (I quit, so had a 5 mo job gap, I was desperate to get out). And I often wonder how doing everything "right" resulted in such a horrible outcome. This was my first experience where performing so much better than my peers put a target on my back (for the most part my peers really liked me, it was my supervisor and her favorite employee who was the lowest performer who were a problem). I now realize how important it is to be able to play office politics and it is not really at all about how good of an employee you are, it's about who can play the game and kiss up to the right people. It's left me bitter and confused and due to having standards of my own integrity I find it difficult to play office politics, which is probably another layer of why I feel like I've hit a stagnation in my momentum. My current organization is not as toxic as the one I had left, however it is ginormous and difficult to navigate. I have a weak manager who is not willing to mentor or advocate. So, I am still trying to find someone who I would consider a good mentor, but that has been difficult to do, bc I am not a fan of the majority of the managers at my location.

If you're willing to make a lateral move, your network in your sector will be your best avenue. I got lucky in that I was a liaison who built and maintained partnerships with other organizations and when my now coworker (who I adore) found out I quit, she convinced her leadership to create a job for me. The bright spot in this situation is that she has been a joy to work with, but as I said, we have a weak manager and that has made career advancement difficult. I am basically so good at my job, I could do it with my eyes shut, I need a bigger challenge and am at the point where I am looking outside of the organization.

Anyway, I wanted to offer you some support, it is so hard to be in this situation where your career can be thrown off simply by a person who has determined that they no longer like you. I was shocked, I made my supervisor look awesome and she happily soaked all of that in, but looking back now I also see how insecure she was and bc she knew that I could technically do her job and run circles around her doing it, she no longer saw me as a person, just a threat.

Your situation definitely sounds even worse!!! I have the same fears - if I bring it up, I will get mobbed. I'm the "new person" and everyone else has been at the company for YEARS. Whose side are they gonna take? The odds are definitely stacked against me. Thanks for your support!!! It really helps to know I'm not the only one that has to go through crap like this!

[mommy111]

I have had short conversations with my boss and have expressed my frustration, and boss agreed with me that boss needed to let go of every minute detail. So there's that. And I think boss has been making an effort but it's not really making a big enough difference at this point. It's also difficult to find time to bring stuff up because my boss is constantly late for, or cancels, meetings with me.
!
You sure he’s not on his way out of the company or his position? In which case maybe you can stick in there? This sounds like a boss who is dis-invested

[Philly Mom]

I work with HR a lot in my practice. I find that the majority of HR professionals care about how and in what way a manager manages.


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[twowhat?]

You sure he’s not on his way out of the company or his position? In which case maybe you can stick in there? This sounds like a boss who is dis-invested

Definitely not! This person seems very invested...in other people. When my meetings are delayed or canceled, it's because this person is working on something with someone else, or gets a phone call from someone else. It's SUPER irritating because it's gotten to where I think my boss is actually disinvested in ME.


I work with HR a lot in my practice. I find that the majority of HR professionals care about how and in what way a manager manages.


Sent from my iPhone using Baby Bargains (http://r.tapatalk.com/byo?rid=87652)

Yeah I would like to think that this is true. I am still torn though, since I'm the new person and my boss is very established within the company. I'm leaning towards cutting my losses...in the end I guess I have to look out for myself. Maybe HR would want to get involved but I only see bad things coming from it - defensive reactions and offended reactions and, at worst, my boss finding ways to make my work life miserable because I went "behind boss's back to complain"...basically I feel very alone and have not been able to confide in a single person within the company so I really just have NO leverage and NO good sense on if anyone else has ever has similar problems with this person. At least it seems that way. But perhaps I am just really bitter right now!