Covid 19 info

[dogmom]

Updated:

So....thought it was time to bump this all up. I started this thread on the last day of February. As a former ICU nurse that got drafted back into the ICU with a Covid Surge unit (somewhat expected) I didn’t expect to live away fro my family for 6 weeks in while I was unsure of I killed my MIL who lives with us. I wasn’t emotionally prepare for how sick my patients would be and how little I can do to help them. Although I hoped not, sure I guess I was expecting us to have the highest death toll to date. I wasn’t expected my pleas on social media to where a mask would be met with “stop shaming people”. I wasn’t expecting people dying on their own away from their families. Thought others might want to reflect. And I still stand by “we are screwed” although for different reasons.
————————————————————

OK, so I read the thread about preparing for a Covid 19 virus outbreak and I felt compelled to put a few things out there about it because I felt there was some misinformation-misinterpretation in the thread

-It’s just like the flu.
Well, kind of. The flu has an average 1% fatality rate. Covid 19 has 3%. This year has about a 0.5% flu fatality, so you can gauge it by that. So on the surface it’s 6x more deadly that the flu. EXCEPT that the fatality rate of people who get the flu. There is no Covid 19 vaccine. So as a novel-no vaccine virus it’s going to have a higher body count if there is full scale outbreak.

-We have a better health system than China.
Once again, kind of. Sure, people come from China to get cutting-edge treatment here. But the US is a patchwork of for profit insurance with a mix of for profit and non profit hospitals. China says jump, and the regional health care system says “how high?” Not happening here. And quarantines? China shut a city of millions down. You see us being able to do that here? There will be people not complying.

-The stock market is just jittery.
It probably is. I maintain the Dow Jones is mostly an index of how many old, white dudes got laid last night. However, with just in time inventory and the shipping back and forth with parts from China we are screwed. Things were already stretched with the trade war. There were less container ships going back and forth do to that. Those are arrange weeks to months out. Now it’s hard to arrange transport. The only overland routes are through Russia (oh, yeah, they got Covid 19 if Italy has and they aren’t reporting it). I’m worried about a lot of things, including ALL THE MEDICAL SUPPLIES that come from there. (We are still getting over the heparin shortage due to the swine flu in China that cause have the pigs to be slaughtered there. Heparin is derived from pig intestine.)

-Just wear a mask.
Masks are needed for me, as a healthcare care provider. You need to stay away from people and wash your hands. A lot.

-We are prepared.
No, we aren’t. I work at a leading edge, have tons of resources hospital. A bad flu season almost sinks us. We don’t have enough beds. We have a population of the well/sick (people who aren’t that sick, but will show up scared), and people worried about testing bills who will avoid getting tested. And since there were a no mandatory sick time rules in the US people will go to work sick or they will go hungry/can’t make rent.

The media is hyping this
Yep, they are. But our fear and our need to feel safe then will make us feel that it’s ALL overblown. So when we do need to listen, we won’t. Also, it will become some political football where you will/will not believe the CDC depending on how your stupid FB feed looks.

We are screwed

[gatorsmom]

“We are screwed”, was NOT how I was expecting your well-worded, calm and realistic explanation of what’s happening! Lol. You’re not a prepper, are ya?

There is always hope. If we got through SARS and H1N1 (and you must have had a front-row view of those epidemics), then we can get through this. You must have some thoughts how YOU plan to prepare for this? Loading up the family on extra daily vitamins? Stocking the cupboards with Gatorade and chicken broth?

And what symptoms will we be battling when some of us come down with this? Trouble breathing? Hacking cough that won’t stop? Super-high fevers? Yesterday I tossed out my expired cold meds and bought AM & PM NyQuil, Delsem for the kids as well as Advil and Tylenol but it was a stab in the dark because I just don’t know what to expect for symptoms. Have you heard anything?

[essnce629]

I would assume that the actual death rate is overinflated and not really known since they're not really testing everyone. Like on the quarantined cruise ships in Japan, they did test everyone and there were 200 confirmed cases, but they were all mild or asymptomatic and there were zero deaths. As of now I'm assuming they're only testing people with moderate symptoms or those who came in contact with those known to have coronavirus, so the 3% death rate wouldn't be accurate. The death rate may be 3% of those with moderate or severe symptoms, but it's clearly not 3% for those with mild or no symptoms at all?

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[Reyadawnbringer]

As the mom of a toddler who touches everything this scares me. What’s frustrating though is that I haven’t really seen any practical information about what symptoms look like, what the incubation period is, or what to treat since clearly antibiotics won’t be a solution.

Basically, how do I know if someone has it, how how I know if my kids have it, and what do you do if you get it??


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[bisous]

Guys, listen to the Daily episode from yesterday! Lots of good information. Symptoms will include coughing and fever but not sneezing or congestion. They don’t really know yet about the incubation period.

It’s different from SARS in that it appears to be transmissible before (and without) symptoms. It was deadliest in adult men. Many in China (where one of the few studies was conducted) that died were adult men and there is a huge disparity in the smoking rate between men and women over there. So perhaps that can explain the death rate but really it’s too soon to know.

Regarding health care, the journalist interviewed on the Daily pointed out that in China severe cases were given supportive care, steroids, anti-vitals, antibiotics (for secondary infections), and respirators and some people still died. So it’s serious. But we don’t have all the information yet. It’s too soon to tell!

[o_mom]

I would assume that the actual death rate is overinflated and not really known since they're not really testing everyone. Like on the quarantined cruise ships in Japan, they did test everyone and there were 200 confirmed cases, but they were all mild or asymptomatic and there were zero deaths. As of now I'm assuming they're only testing people with moderate symptoms or those who came in contact with those known to have coronavirus, so the 3% death rate wouldn't be accurate. The death rate may be 3% of those with moderate or severe symptoms, but it's clearly not 3% for those with mild or no symptoms at all?

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The last report I heard on the cruise ship was 700-ish confirmed cases (including asymptomatic) and 6 deaths so far.

[dogmom]

“We are screwed”, was NOT how I was expecting your well-worded, calm and realistic explanation of what’s happening! Lol. You’re not a prepper, are ya?

There is always hope. If we got through SARS and H1N1 (and you must have had a front-row view of those epidemics), then we can get through this. You must have some thoughts how YOU plan to prepare for this? Loading up the family on extra daily vitamins? Stocking the cupboards with Gatorade and chicken broth?

And what symptoms will we be battling when some of us come down with this? Trouble breathing? Hacking cough that wonÂ’t stop? Super-high fevers? Yesterday I tossed out my expired cold meds and bought AM & PM NyQuil, Delsem for the kids as well as Advil and Tylenol but it was a stab in the dark because I just donÂ’t know what to expect for symptoms. Have you heard anything?

1) It is not a GI bug, so you would not need Gatorade or broth.
2) Vitamins are just stealing your $$$
3) Symptom relief. Acetaminophen & guaifenesin. Everything else is just wishful thinking. Facial tissues would be good to have.
4) there is no way to prep accept hand sanitizer and wash your %*%#! Hands.
5) H1N1 started in the US, not China. So the global economic impact was different. And it didnÂ’t really effect those >65 because they had already been exposed to a similar virus. And the death rate was 0.03%. SARS, and MERS and Avian flu (H5N1) has higher fatalities (up to 60%). Which sounds like good news for Covid 19, except more mild cases mean there are more people walking around spreading it.
6)H1N1 stilled sucked and it was better than we thought it could be. We had to knock down a wall in in our medical ICU so we could have one person running two ECMO circuits on two patients. We utilized every ECMO machine we had, we had to triage people we thought were past saving off the machine and put new patients on. Most hospitals don not have ECMO machines.

Honestly I have no idea how this will turn out. What I mean with “we are screwed” is the only way this isn’t going to suck is if people radically change their behavior. Changing their behavior will effect the economy. It is a bad position to be in.

[georgiegirl]

. Like on the quarantined cruise ships in Japan, they did test everyone and there were 200 confirmed cases, but they were all mild or asymptomatic and there were zero deaths.

Nope, last I heard there were 5 or 6 deaths from the diamond princess.

DH is a physician, and he’s worried. I’m freaked because I was hospitalized with H1N1, so I’m having a bit of PTSD. I have a decent amount of food stored and I’m prepared for a quarantine.

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[westwoodmom04]

Nope, last I heard there were 5 or 6 deaths from the diamond princess.

DH is a physician, and he’s worried. I’m freaked because I was hospitalized with H1N1, so I’m having a bit of PTSD. I have a decent amount of food stored and I’m prepared for a quarantine.

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See above, 5 or 6 deaths out of 700 confirmed cases on the ship. There’s still room for hope this won’t be that bad.

[westwoodmom04]

I do wonder if it has already circulated here for a while. My dh, me and my ds all had an unusually strong virus a month ago, with a really bad cough and chill/aches. My ds and I both developed secondary bacterial infections that required antibiotics to get better. My dh has such severe chest pain that we called the paramedics thinking he had a heart attack. I haven’t felt so sick in a good 10 years, the dr. Also gave me abuterol because at it’s worse, my lungs just hurt. Both my ds and I were tested for flu and it was negative. We live in a major city and there are students from mainland China at my kids’ schools. Also my dh works at a well known academic medical center. No confirmed cases in our city yet though as far as I know.

[essnce629]

The last report I heard on the cruise ship was 700-ish confirmed cases (including asymptomatic) and 6 deaths so far.Ok, but a 3% death rate would be 21 people dead out of 700 confirmed cases. Only 6 deaths out of 700 would be less than a 1% death rate (0.86%). So yeah, seems like the actual death rate is lower than what we're hearing.

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[dogmom]

Ok, but a 3% death rate would be 21 people dead out of 700 confirmed cases. Only 6 deaths out of 700 would be less than a 1% death rate (0.86%). So yeah, seems like the actual death rate is lower than what we're hearing.

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Best study to date I could find was death rate was 2.5%. They are still trying to nail down the R0-how communicable it is.


https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762510
https://jamanetwork.com/journals/jama/fullarticle/2762130

[o_mom]

Ok, but a 3% death rate would be 21 people dead out of 700 confirmed cases. Only 6 deaths out of 700 would be less than a 1% death rate (0.86%). So yeah, seems like the actual death rate is lower than what we're hearing.

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Note the words "so far". The most recent death was yesterday. Even a 1-2% death rate is going to be more than what we see with flu

[JBaxter]

I don't doubt it is a serious virus especially to those with other medical issues the more I read the less I am worried. I'm going on with my regularly scheduled life. I'll pretend its hurricane season and call it a day.

[robinsmommy]

The issue with talking about the death rate is that it changes (R0 does, too- and it sounds like it can be reduced through behavior and containment measures.) It may be low in developed countries now, just at the start of spread. When hospitals get overwhelmed, which is likely if it becomes widespread given how transmissible it is, the death rate will go up- this is what happened in China. As PP’s have noted, beds in ICU’s, infectious disease units, or even in hospitals; respiratory equipment; healthy medical staff- those will all be in short supply, and likely some meds as well. Also timing- it can take some time to get sick enough to need the hospital, and even longer to die or recover. Too early to see much of the data.

https://mobile.twitter.com/HelenBranswell

https://mobile.twitter.com/MackayIM

Are sources that I have been using for info.

[bisous]

Note the words "so far". The most recent death was yesterday. Even a 1-2% death rate is going to be more than what we see with flu

In the Daily podcast that was explained as if you know 300 people, 6 of them will die. So it’s not even close to everyone but it’s still a scarier and more tragic scenario than what we are used to dealing with with infectious diseases. Again, I’m not panicked, but I think it’s good to have accurate information and to prepare for a sobering reality.

[dogmom]

In the Daily podcast that was explained as if you know 300 people, 6 of them will die. So it’s not even close to everyone but it’s still a scarier and more tragic scenario than what we are used to dealing with with infectious diseases. Again, I’m not panicked, but I think it’s good to have accurate information and to prepare for a sobering reality.

I agree. The Washington State person is a teenager. If it spreads we can write off the old and sick, even the middle age will be written down as “well only a few”. But if it effects a large number of young adults and kids people are not going to cope well once they let go of their denial.

To be clear, I am not advocating panic. But just pretending it’s like the flu or a hurricane if it turns into a pandemic that hits us isn’t helpful. There is little to do but really work in hygiene behavior changes in our own homes. If there is a large scale outbreak realistic assessments of when to go out in public.

It’s a virus, it doesn’t care if you are brave or scared or whatever. I think we all just need to sort out our emotional responses (to minimize or overblow it), acknowledges that’s our emotional side taking, and move on.

[twowhat?]

Also remember the death rate is likely to not be accurate at this time. Most testing is done on people who meet the CDC criteria to test (they can't manufacture enough tests for every single person, after all), so it is almost certain that there are many many cases which were mild/asymptomatic but were not confirmed as COVID-19 because those folks were never tested/never suspected of having this virus. That potentially brings the death rate WAY down.

I think worst case is that this virus becomes one of the many that circulates in the human population, part of normal life, and if it were a year-round threat vs a seasonal threat like the flu.

[KpbS]

Also remember the death rate is likely to not be accurate at this time. Most testing is done on people who meet the CDC criteria to test (they can't manufacture enough tests for every single person, after all), so it is almost certain that there are many many cases which were mild/asymptomatic but were not confirmed as COVID-19 because those folks were never tested/never suspected of having this virus. That potentially brings the death rate WAY down.

I think worst case is that this virus becomes one of the many that circulates in the human population, part of normal life, and if it were a year-round threat vs a seasonal threat like the flu.

:yeahthat:

We are already hand washing maniacs in our house, well, I am the enforcer.

This really is an unfortunate scenario with China deliberately lying to its own people and the world regarding infection, contagion, death rates, etc. Very little reliable information can be gleaned at this point since our data is so incomplete. It seems like test kits will continue to be in short supply, high demand for quite some time. I’m really hoping with the change of seasons here in North America the infection rates will slow, like influenza.

[dogmom]

I think worst case is that this virus becomes one of the many that circulates in the human population, part of normal life, and if it were a year-round threat vs a seasonal threat like the flu.

Argh, no! That’s not the worse case. Pandemics are bad because you get a novel virus without a large pool of immunity that spreads to a significant enough portion of the works population to have an effect on the Heath and economic systems globally. This will have a direct effect on our ability to take care of the sick. And I don’t just mean those with the virus. We have a finite number of hospital beds and ED slots, and they seam 90% occupied now.

[robinsmommy]

Argh, no! That’s not the worse case. Pandemics are bad because you get a novel virus without a large pool of immunity that spreads to a significant enough portion of the works population to have an effect on the Heath and economic systems globally. This will have a direct effect on our ability to take care of the sick. And I don’t just mean those with the virus. We have a finite number of hospital beds and ED slots, and they seam 90% occupied now.

Yep, worst case 40-70% of people get it globally and millions die, esp in third world countries. And/or there are waves over the next few years as happened with the 1918 flu.

People in hard hit areas of China could not get treatment for other health issues- difficult pregnancies, cancer, necessary things like dialysis. One man was sick, and could not care for his disabled child- without care, his son died.

[PZMommy]

And now we have the first corona virus death in the US.

[NCGrandma]

And now we have the first corona virus death in the US.

And no information released yet about whether this person was a traveler or if this was a community-acquired case or what. Trump is about to do a briefing... Hopefully he will at the very least correct his comment yesterday that coronavirus is a Democrat hoax...


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[PZMommy]

It was a female in her 50’s with prior health issues.

[NCGrandma]

It was a female in her 50’s with prior health issues.

So, more vulnerable. And the press briefing info seems to indicate that this was community-acquired, no history of travel or contact with recent travelers. That’s the scarier scenario.


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[KpbS]

It was a female in her 50’s with prior health issues.

Not the high school student reported to have the virus?

[KpbS]

And no information released yet about whether this person was a traveler or if this was a community-acquired case or what. Trump is about to do a briefing... Hopefully he will at the very least correct his comment yesterday that coronavirus is a Democrat hoax...


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Fat chance he will make any corrections or speak with knowledge about the situation.

[o_mom]

In the Daily podcast that was explained as if you know 300 people, 6 of them will die. So it’s not even close to everyone but it’s still a scarier and more tragic scenario than what we are used to dealing with with infectious diseases. Again, I’m not panicked, but I think it’s good to have accurate information and to prepare for a sobering reality.

Similar to that, what I have discussed with people locally, to put it in context... Our high school is about the size of the cruise ship. We typically have one death per year. If the infection rate is the same, then we could have 6+ deaths. If everyone was infected, it could mean a funeral every week. Maybe less because it is a younger population, but there are plenty of kids there with asthma and other conditions, so maybe not. Then there is the collateral damage, like kids with Type I diabetes rationing insulin if the supply chain collapses.

Am I panicked? No, but I do think this is more serious than seasonal influenza and does have potential for major disruption. We could probably eat for a few weeks off the freezer and pantry, but it would get creative by the end. Adding some staples over the next few weeks and making sure we have a reasonable supply of meds (not hoarding, but enough for 5 people) doesn't seem like an over-reaction.

[icunurse]

Between my hospital experience and advanced degree in community health, I have been following this closely and getting info from various locations. So here are some things to consider, but NOT panic (yet)...

This virus is so new and so unknown, we are learning things as we go along. There isn’t a vaccine to even potentially help at this time. The flu tends to “run its course”, but there isn’t any reason that this virus will work that way, too. So we are still trying to figure out transmission methods, period of being contagious, etc.

What we do know - a patient has tested positive again after testing negative from a prior infection. So will people not build antibodies against this? Is this potentially something that can keep recurring? Or mutating? A dog of a person who tested positive has also tested as “mildly positive”. So can this be transmitted between people and animals? Which ones? Could this potentially affect food sources?

We do not have a social system set up for this. People don’t necessarily have access to healthcare, time off, or staying inside their house if needed to self-quarantine. Businesses can’t always close down or have people work from home. And if this could be a recurring illness, how many times before it affects a business enough to not be able to stay open? China is already shutting down certain sectors, which could affect the U.S. What necessary things might be affected (meds, etc)? Could this happen at some point here, too?

So how many deaths are ok? At least flu deaths might be preventable (or able to be minimized). But we live in a society with children who have medical conditions, elderly people with underlying issues, and sometimes just fluke stuff happens. This needs to be stopped and the cycle broken, but it’s already so fast, that is going to be very hard to do, maybe impossible. Look back at the flu pandemic of 1918. We learned a lot from it. But there are other things to take into account these days.

For right now, we listen to reputable sources. Personally, I am even hesitant to fully listen to our national reports because I don’t agree with how our government has chosen to disperse information. However, when national and world sources are saying to think ahead, I think ahead. I have extra hand sanitizer, Kleenex, isopropyl alcohol (it has been reported that it kills the virus), and personal medications. None of these will go bad or to waste. I always have plenty of food on hand (for which I am lucky and grateful). So wash your hands. Get hand sanitizer if your little ones aren’t great at hand washing. Stay home, if you can, if you are sick. Cover your mouth with sneezes. Keep your hands away from your face. Be prepared to check in on people if this advances.

That’s all we can do at this point.

[Myira]

I found this link very informative https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/well/live/coronavirus-spread-transmission-face-touching-hands.html

Apart from frequent and good hand washing, consciously stopping yourself from touching your face at all especially when outside the home. It made me think that wearing gloves are better protection when in public places than those masks which would actually cause you to touch your face a few times just to adjust it.


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[westwoodmom04]

Our waitress was wearing surgical gloves this weekend. It actually seems like a worthwhile precaution, although a little unsettling on first glance.

[BDKmom]

I don’t know that gloves are going to do much if they don’t stop you from touching your mouth, nose, and face.

Today our Walmart was wiped out of hand sanitizer but had most other things, at least to some extent. I have heard that our Costco is insane. I am just making sure that I’m not running low on anything, but not necessarily stock-piling. I tend to buy multiples of household items anyway, because I hate Walmart.

[wendibird22]

NY Dept of Health is saying R0 is 2.2 (but as was stated upthread, that's subject to change). They are sticking with quarantine guidance of 2 weeks post exposure to someone with symptoms OR travel to/from "hot bed" area (which now includes Italy). They are not recommending masks or gloves for anyone other than healthcare providers. They are not recommending even symptomatic people see a doctor unless symptoms are more severe than fever/cough. NY is only testing for covid if:
1. fever AND symptoms plus known exposure to covid 19
2. fever OR symptoms and history of travel to/from affected region in last 14 days
3. fever with severe lower respiratory illness requiring hospitalization and no other explainable diagnosis (such as neg flu test)

[Myira]

I don’t know that gloves are going to do much if they don’t stop you from touching your mouth, nose, and face.

The idea is that most people would not touch their face with gloves on and the virus is very less likely to survive on pieces of clothing for long.

[TwinFoxes]

The idea is that most people would not touch their face with gloves on and the virus is very less likely to survive on pieces of clothing for long.

And hopefully they're being changed often. A few weeks ago I was at a deli and a woman was making a sandwich platter, and picking up a pen to mark things on a clipboard, keeping her gloves on, and going back to make sandwiches! Luckily, I saw the guy helping me put on new gloves.

[gatorsmom]

I’ve been working especially hard lately to prevent my DS3 to stop chewing his nails. It is an uphill battle made much worse by the fact that his ADHD meds make him want to pick his skin and bite his nails ferociously. I have some of that bitter-tasting nail polish (can’t remember its name) but I think he would eat right through that. I hesitate to do the play on his natural anxiety but if he doesn’t even try to stop (she’s not concerned at all about the virus), I might make him watch Contagion. At least then he would know how viruses spread and how important it is to keep his fingers away from his mouth and open sores. The movie does a great job of explaining fomites and quarantines and maybe a little feat will make him think twice before chomping down.

[KpbS]

I’ve been working especially hard lately to prevent my DS3 to stop chewing his nails. It is an uphill battle made much worse by the fact that his ADHD meds make him want to pick his skin and bite his nails ferociously. I have some of that bitter-tasting nail polish (can’t remember its name) but I think he would eat right through that. I hesitate to do the play on his natural anxiety but if he doesn’t even try to stop (she’s not concerned at all about the virus), I might make him watch Contagion. At least then he would know how viruses spread and how important it is to keep his fingers away from his mouth and open sores. The movie does a great job of explaining fomites and quarantines and maybe a little feat will make him think twice before chomping down.

maybe he could wear gloves at home?

[KpbS]

NY Dept of Health is saying R0 is 2.2 (but as was stated upthread, that's subject to change). They are sticking with quarantine guidance of 2 weeks post exposure to someone with symptoms OR travel to/from "hot bed" area (which now includes Italy). They are not recommending masks or gloves for anyone other than healthcare providers. They are not recommending even symptomatic people see a doctor unless symptoms are more severe than fever/cough. NY is only testing for covid if:
1. fever AND symptoms plus known exposure to covid 19
2. fever OR symptoms and history of travel to/from affected region in last 14 days
3. fever with severe lower respiratory illness requiring hospitalization and no other explainable diagnosis (such as neg flu test)

This is really helpful, Wendibird.

[essnce629]

I’ve been working especially hard lately to prevent my DS3 to stop chewing his nails. It is an uphill battle made much worse by the fact that his ADHD meds make him want to pick his skin and bite his nails ferociously. I have some of that bitter-tasting nail polish (can’t remember its name) but I think he would eat right through that. I hesitate to do the play on his natural anxiety but if he doesn’t even try to stop (she’s not concerned at all about the virus), I might make him watch Contagion. At least then he would know how viruses spread and how important it is to keep his fingers away from his mouth and open sores. The movie does a great job of explaining fomites and quarantines and maybe a little feat will make him think twice before chomping down.I stopped biting my nails after 30+ years after listening to this Stop Nail Biting hypnosis 3 times! Have him listen to it every night before bed. I've had to relisten to it a few times when I was overly stressed and caught myself biting/picking again.
https://www.freehypnosissessions.com/stop-nail-biting-hypnosis-session.html

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[mikala]

NY Dept of Health is saying R0 is 2.2 (but as was stated upthread, that's subject to change). They are sticking with quarantine guidance of 2 weeks post exposure to someone with symptoms OR travel to/from "hot bed" area (which now includes Italy). They are not recommending masks or gloves for anyone other than healthcare providers. They are not recommending even symptomatic people see a doctor unless symptoms are more severe than fever/cough. NY is only testing for covid if:
1. fever AND symptoms plus known exposure to covid 19
2. fever OR symptoms and history of travel to/from affected region in last 14 days
3. fever with severe lower respiratory illness requiring hospitalization and no other explainable diagnosis (such as neg flu test)

Thanks for sharing. This is really helpful. My takeaway from this list is that they're acknowledging the horse is out of the barn and they aren't even trying to test/quarantine the non-hospitalized cases that weren't a direct connection to someone else who tested positive (under the same restrictive testing criteria, plus the added complication that they've had problems with the diagnostic tests...)

One of my friends just returned from a large convention that had attendees from one of the US outbreak areas, and she traveled on a plane to get there surrounded by people coughing and sneezing from who knows what illnesses. Say she develops symptoms that match coronovirus in the next week or two, but as a relatively healthy adult to begin with isn't hospitalized. She'd never be tested or fully know whether to quarantine herself (and her family if they get sick next?), and would probably return to work after the fever breaks and she starts to feel human again because her employer gives her limited sick time and there aren't seperate self-quarantine for an undiagnosed virus days :)

I thought these were interesting and :facepalm: reads:

https://www.nytimes.com/2020/03/02/health/coronavirus-testing-cdc.html

https://www.washingtonpost.com/politics/2020/03/03/trumps-baffling-coronavirus-vaccine-event/?fbclid=IwAR0Rkcw2grY2QaeMhGoch_7RmlX7LMnn_p91oWEa ya3urtY75EKkg8_iI3o

[wendibird22]

One of my friends just returned from a large convention that had attendees from one of the US outbreak areas, and she traveled on a plane to get there surrounded by people coughing and sneezing from who knows what illnesses. Say she develops symptoms that match coronovirus in the next week or two, but as a relatively healthy adult to begin with isn't hospitalized. She'd never be tested or fully know whether to quarantine herself (and her family if they get sick next?), and would probably return to work after the fever breaks and she starts to feel human again because her employer gives her limited sick time and there aren't seperate self-quarantine for an undiagnosed virus days :)


Exactly. Just like influenza, or a cold, or norovirus...it's a trust your family/coworkers/neighbors to stay home if they are sick and, in this case, for 14 days. And given the status of health care and compensatory sick time and the proportion of hourly wage and pay-per-job workers in the US, you can see the handwriting on the wall. I see why countries like Japan and China have just shut everything down. But can you imagine the US ever doing so? Between the economic impact and the intrusion on personal liberty, there'd be a mutany!

[mikala]

Just posted this on the other thread too but here's an article about the stats. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/03/how-many-americans-really-have-coronavirus/607348/

[Kestrel]

What does the recovery time look like if someone does get sick? Everyone keeps talking about two weeks quarantine, but if you get sick, how long before you're not contagious? Is that clear yet?

[PZMommy]

What does the recovery time look like if someone does get sick? Everyone keeps talking about two weeks quarantine, but if you get sick, how long before you're not contagious? Is that clear yet?

Not that I have seen. I think the recovery time depends on how severe of a case you get, but it sounds like it could be 2 to 3 weeks. Also I know earlier reports said that you could get it a second time, and that just because you get it once doesn't mean that you are immune to it.

[NCGrandma]

Not that I have seen. I think the recovery time depends on how severe of a case you get, but it sounds like it could be 2 to 3 weeks. Also I know earlier reports said that you could get it a second time, and that just because you get it once doesn't mean that you are immune to it.

I think the main conclusion is that there are way more questions than answers at this point.


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[Myira]

Just posted this on the other thread too but here's an article about the stats. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/03/how-many-americans-really-have-coronavirus/607348/

Absolutely fascinating article and probably one that shed the most light on covid19, thanks much for sharing.


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[TwinFoxes]

Just posted this on the other thread too but here's an article about the stats. https://www.theatlantic.com/technology/archive/2020/03/how-many-americans-really-have-coronavirus/607348/

I'm still reading this, so maybe it's addressed in this article as well. But I can't help but wonder how many elderly people died because of COVID-19 that went undetected because they were elderly and pneumonia isn't unexpected. According to The Washington Post, in that nursing home in Kirkland there have been 26 deaths. But not all of them had been tested for COVID. So the number who died could be greater than reported. My aunt died of fast moving pneumonia a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure no one tested her for COVID-19. Maybe they would have now, but they didn't then. (Not saying she had it, just saying how easy it would be to overlook people with COVID-19 and attribute their deaths to something else.)

[JBaxter]

Interview with man quarantined at home with coronavirus texted positive 5x has been completely asymptomatic The reason they texted him was he is high risk because of a kidney transplant I now have to wonder how many positives are really out there https://video.foxnews.com/v/6139450670001#sp=show-clips

[Myira]

I'm still reading this, so maybe it's addressed in this article as well. But I can't help but wonder how many elderly people died because of COVID-19 that went undetected because they were elderly and pneumonia isn't unexpected. According to The Washington Post, in that nursing home in Kirkland there have been 26 deaths. But not all of them had been tested for COVID. So the number who died could be greater than reported. My aunt died of fast moving pneumonia a couple of weeks ago. I'm sure no one tested her for COVID-19. Maybe they would have now, but they didn't then. (Not saying she had it, just saying how easy it would be to overlook people with COVID-19 and attribute their deaths to something else.)

The pneumonia vaccine is something I hope all elderly people above 65 consider. My dad took it recently and plans to have my mom take it as well. He is 70 and was prompted into action after he lost a dear friend who was in great shape to pneumonia in a matter of days after being hospitalized.
https://www.cdc.gov/features/adult-pneumococcal/index.html

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[twowhat?]

The pneumonia vaccine is something I hope all elderly people above 65 consider. My dad took it recently and plans to have my mom take it as well. He is 70 and was prompted into action after he lost a dear friend who was in great shape to pneumonia in a matter of days after being hospitalized.
https://www.cdc.gov/features/adult-pneumococcal/index.html

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I agree that the elderly should consider the pneumococcal vaccine as it could be beneficial overall. But just to clarify - this protects against bacterial pneumonia. The new coronavirus causes viral pneumonia, which this vaccine will NOT protect against. However, it could potentially help if a coronavirus patient developed a SECONDARY bacterial pneumonia, but my understanding is that this is far less likely.

Consider the pneumococcal vaccine in elderly patients for their overall health but definitely be careful of scaring the elderly into thinking this vaccine is needed right now and will protect against coronavirus pneumonia, because it won't. (Myira, not saying you were implying this but since it's in a coronavirus thread, just wanted to clarify!!)

[NCGrandma]

I agree that the elderly should consider the pneumococcal vaccine as it could be beneficial overall. But just to clarify - this protects against bacterial pneumonia. The new coronavirus causes viral pneumonia, which this vaccine will NOT protect against. However, it could potentially help if a coronavirus patient developed a SECONDARY bacterial pneumonia, but my understanding is that this is far less likely.

Consider the pneumococcal vaccine in elderly patients for their overall health but definitely be careful of scaring the elderly into thinking this vaccine is needed right now and will protect against coronavirus pneumonia, because it won't. (Myira, not saying you were implying this but since it's in a coronavirus thread, just wanted to clarify!!)

Excellent points, twowhat! Yes, pneumococcal vaccines are important preventive measures for people over 65 but not directly relevant to the current virus situation.

By the way, there are 2 pneumonia vaccines: Pneumovax which has been around for a while, and the newer Prevnar which was widely advertised on TV when it came out. Because they protect against different bacterial strains, most recommendations now encourage folks over 65 to get both. (Each is a single dose, and they are done in a particular order, with a recommended interval in between.)


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[TwinFoxes]

Interview with man quarantined at home with coronavirus texted positive 5x has been completely asymptomatic The reason they texted him was he is high risk because of a kidney transplant I now have to wonder how many positives are really out there https://video.foxnews.com/v/6139450670001#sp=show-clips

I think there are a lot. The testing criteria was so small before. UC Davis requested a test 4 times before they got one from the CDC. It was for the woman who became California’s first confirmed case.

[mommy111]

I think there are a lot. The testing criteria was so small before. UC Davis requested a test 4 times before they got one from the CDC. It was for the woman who became California’s first confirmed case.
Where are you guys getting all this news from? I am looking for more info but don’t know where to look, esp local info

[Myira]

I agree that the elderly should consider the pneumococcal vaccine as it could be beneficial overall. But just to clarify - this protects against bacterial pneumonia. The new coronavirus causes viral pneumonia, which this vaccine will NOT protect against. However, it could potentially help if a coronavirus patient developed a SECONDARY bacterial pneumonia, but my understanding is that this is far less likely.

Consider the pneumococcal vaccine in elderly patients for their overall health but definitely be careful of scaring the elderly into thinking this vaccine is needed right now and will protect against coronavirus pneumonia, because it won't. (Myira, not saying you were implying this but since it's in a coronavirus thread, just wanted to clarify!!)

Sorry if I made it sound confusing, my dad got vaccinated before the covid19 outbreak and I certainly didn’t mean to imply this would be any protection against it. It was just something that came up when I was talking to him yesterday and I thought I’d mention it. It does seem to be one precaution the elderly could take among others to stay healthy.


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[TwinFoxes]

Where are you guys getting all this news from? I am looking for more info but don’t know where to look, esp local info

My local paper is the Washington Post. This is one article about UC Davis. This one said they had to wait four days after asking the CDC for a test, but I think I read elsewhere that they asked for times (which makes sense, once a day.) https://www.washingtonpost.com/health/new-us-coronavirus-case-may-be-1st-from-unknown-origin/2020/02/26/1d4d7e8e-5902-11ea-8efd-0f904bdd8057_story.html

[dogmom]

Right now many large cities have people in ICU pretty sick that are waiting to be tested. I’m of trying to freak anyone out. The reality is with any widespread communicable disease outbreak confirmed numbers or going to be weeks if not months away from reality on the ground. My hospital’s underground ambulance bay that we designed to be used in emergencies got taken over for mass testing of a conference where people were exposed. I’m not sure how long it will take those numbers to come out.

[westwoodmom04]

Right now many large cities have people in ICU pretty sick that are waiting to be tested. I’m of trying to freak anyone out. The reality is with any widespread communicable disease outbreak confirmed numbers or going to be weeks if not months away from reality on the ground. My hospital’s underground ambulance bay that we designed to be used in emergencies got taken over for mass testing of a conference where people were exposed. I’m not sure how long it will take those numbers to come out.
The biogen conference infections have already been widely reported.

[mommy111]

And this
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-experts-worst-case-scenario-224941707.html
Most healthcare professionals are way more scared than the general public

[robinsmommy]

And this
https://www.yahoo.com/news/coronavirus-experts-worst-case-scenario-224941707.html
Most healthcare professionals are way more scared than the general public

Ditto even with moderate epidemiologists and virologists.

[westwoodmom04]

Ditto even with moderate epidemiologists and virologists.
Most of the doctors I know are less worried than what I see on this board. My dh works at a academic medical center and they be been preparing since January. His patient population is at risk. They are communicating to their patients what to do. Follow the guidelines but also look at the actual number of deaths, even on a global level, they are still extremely low.

[JBaxter]

Most of the doctors I know are less worried than what I see on this board. My dh works at a academic medical center and they be been preparing since January. His patient population is at risk. They are communicating to their patients what to do. Follow the guidelines but also look at the actual number of deaths, even on a global level, they are still extremely low.

Not everyone is crazy worried. I did buy cold meds and 2 bottles of hand sanitizer because I had zero in my house and we are planning a 10 day trip to the U.K. with tickets to attend 2 pro soccer matches. We are definitely not germophobic. I’ll pack some Lysol wipes but I usually do for flights

[wendibird22]

I'm traveling domestically for work later this week. DH is worried and wishes I would stay put. I'm not any more concerned than I would be about colds, flu, and other gunk this time of year and will wipe down my arms rests and seat belt buckle on the plane.

[chlobo]

Now I'm confused. Some people connected to the medical community on this board are worried and some are not. This seems a lot like other news we are getting. Nothing is clear.

[hbridge]

Do people really have 2 weeks worth of food in the house? I have one friend who could live for months on the stash they have, but we have, maybe a weeks worth.

[AnnieW625]

I'm traveling domestically for work later this week. DH is worried and wishes I would stay put. I'm not any more concerned than I would be about colds, flu, and other gunk this time of year and will wipe down my arms rests and seat belt buckle on the plane.

I am traveling as well on Friday to Portland for a baby shower for my SIL and I am not super worried; neither is DH. I have never wiped down an airplane seat or buckle, but for this trip I just might.

Within the last 24 hours both Alaska Airlines, and Southwest have issued statements regarding Corona Virus and I am not worried.


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[gatorsmom]

Do people really have 2 weeks worth of food in the house? I have one friend who could live for months on the stash they have, but we have, maybe a weeks worth.

Well, yeah but we always have probably 3-4 weeks worth of food at our house although we would be getting creative on week 4. Mainly that’s because my house has a large pantry, 2 refrigerators and a freezer. I didn’t stock up especially for this virus on food. I did go through our canned food, tossed the expired stuff and restock that.

[gatorsmom]

I am traveling as well on Friday to Portland for a baby shower for my SIL and I am not super worried; neither is DH. I have never wiped down an airplane seat or buckle, but for this trip I just might.

Within the last 24 hours both Alaska Airlines, and Southwest have issued statements regarding Corona Virus and I am not worried.


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I got an email from Delta this morning about how they are handling COVID19. It’s nice to see the airlines taking it so seriously. I don’t remember them sending out statements with H1N1.

We flew 2 days ago to Steamboat Springs. It feels quieter here than the last 2 years. Dh says there the advanced runs are almost empty but the other slopes seem just as crowded as always. It’s weird there aren’t more people here because skiing is an activity where your face and hands are covered and most people try to stay several feet away from others! We stay in at night and don’t really go anywhere other than trips to the grocery store and church.

eta- I always wipe down the armrests and tray tables and did it this time too.

[westwoodmom04]

I got an email from Delta this morning about how they are handling COVID19. It’s nice to see the airlines taking it so seriously. I don’t remember them sending out statements with H1N1.

We flew 2 days ago to Steamboat Springs. It feels quieter here than the last 2 years. Dh says there the advanced runs are almost empty but the other slopes seem just as crowded as always. It’s weird there aren’t more people here because skiing is an activity where your face and hands are covered and most people try to stay several feet away from others! We stay in at night and don’t really go anywhere other than trips to the grocery store and church.

We leave for Scottsdale on Saturday. Mostly going to be a chill and spend time outdoors trip, so still going unless recommendations change,

[carolinamama]

Now I'm confused. Some people connected to the medical community on this board are worried and some are not. This seems a lot like other news we are getting. Nothing is clear.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this. Nothing seems clear and concise. I'm an ICU nurse at a large academic medical center and our unit will get the positive cases. We've been preparing since January and I was trained weeks ago. I'm hearing that it is droplet transmission - wash hands, avoid sick people - but at the same time, healthcare workers are being trained for airborne transmission. So do we truly not know or is it a matter of being overly cautious?

I still haven't done anything extra to prep our family. We could probably eat for 2 weeks off our food but it wouldn't be anyone's choice foods after a week or so. We haven't changed our routines. Trying to encourage my kids to wash hands more often but they are still gross. :) DH flies out tomorrow as his company hasn't halted travel, while others have. I believe that the lack of straightforward action list from one credible source (CDC?) is driving the uncertainty and panic.

[squimp]

Do people really have 2 weeks worth of food in the house? I have one friend who could live for months on the stash they have, but we have, maybe a weeks worth.

We do, we have a half cow, a half lamb and a ton of fish in our freezer. It would definitely be hard because it is all freezer meat and beans and rice. But we could do it. We live in a wildland-urban interface area with potential natural disasters (fires and earthquakes) so we have been working with our community about being prepared for several years now.

[khm]

Do people really have 2 weeks worth of food in the house? I have one friend who could live for months on the stash they have, but we have, maybe a weeks worth.

We totally do. We have canned goods that we don't use enough of, so there is always soup or whatever. We have several boxes of pasta. Taco shells and flour tortillas. We buy a quarter of a cow from a farmer, so there is always always beef. Frozen chicken from Costco.

I'd have to stock up on the fresh stuff (fruits, veggies, bread, eggs) but for sure we'd have enough basics to muscle through. It might get a bit weird, but we'd not starve.

[wendibird22]

I got an email from Delta this morning about how they are handling COVID19. It’s nice to see the airlines taking it so seriously. I don’t remember them sending out statements with H1N1.
.

I’m flying delta. What’s unfortunate is they are only waiving change fees on flights booked after March 1. My travel on Wednesday via delta was booked in January. Southwest on the other hand is not charging any fees for travel booked any time.


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[o_mom]

Do people really have 2 weeks worth of food in the house? I have one friend who could live for months on the stash they have, but we have, maybe a weeks worth.

At any one time, we could probably go 2 weeks with decent main dishes, though it would get really creative for side dishes by the end.

The biggest question in my mind is if we have enough for everyone to eat 3 meals a day at home - typically the kids buy lunch at school and DH goes out for lunch 2-3 days per week.

Mainly we are buying double of our normal staples as a buffer, and making sure we are stocked on things like milk and butter, so instead of buying milk when the gallon is nearly empty, we have a full one in reserve at all times (it will not go to waste here).

[div_0305]

I have 2 weeks worth now, but each week, I'd need to stock up to have 2 weeks' worth. Although, we do have lots of beans, jarred tomatoes, rice, and pasta in the pantry, and I have a deep freezer that I should probably get some frozen veg and fruits to fill with.

[TwinFoxes]

Do people really have 2 weeks worth of food in the house? I have one friend who could live for months on the stash they have, but we have, maybe a weeks worth.

I do now. I didn't before the CDC said "have two weeks of supplies on hand."

Look, I'm really not worried about the virus itself. But I am worried about getting quarantined. I live in a county that tends to do things "out of an abundance of caution." If the schools close and they recommend people stay at home, I want to be able to feed my kids something other than canned soup and rice.

[carolinacool]

Do people really have 2 weeks worth of food in the house? I have one friend who could live for months on the stash they have, but we have, maybe a weeks worth.

Same here. When I got to the grocery store, I really shop week to week. I have a basic side-by-side fridge and a cabinet-style pantry, so I'm somewhat limited by space.

ETA: We do have several cans of soup, tuna, canned meats, etc, but they definitely would not be our top choice for meals. However, unless my paycheck has somehow increased (lol), I also don't really have the money to buy double the meat, veggies, fruit, etc. that I would normally buy in one trip.

[khm]

I do now. I didn't before the CDC said "have two weeks of supplies on hand."

Look, I'm really not worried about the virus itself. But I am worried about getting quarantined. I live in a county that tends to do things "out of an abundance of caution." If the schools close and they recommend people stay at home, I want to be able to feed my kids something other than canned soup and rice.

I guess I don't REALLY think, in my area, we'll be formally quarantined for two weeks. So, I'm not really going full-prepper on the whole deal. But, if I'm wrong, we do have enough food to get by. Not to eat lavishly or maybe even coordinated meals (I mean, it could be tacos and Mac & Cheese or something weird), but we'd be able to eat well enough.

We're BAD about "shopping the pantry/freezer", so, we have lots of odds and ends we could burn through. I just guess most kitchens I see, are like mine. Plenty full of random stuff, so I'm not feeling the need to shove MORE stuff in there.

[TwinFoxes]

I guess I don't REALLY think, in my area, we'll be formally quarantined for two weeks. So, I'm not really going full-prepper on the whole deal.

We are notorious for having schools canceled for "inclement weather" when there's zero-1" of snow. :) We have 20 snow days left this year, I am convinced the school system will use them at the drop of a hat.

[khm]

We are notorious for having schools canceled for "inclement weather" when there's zero-1" of snow. :) We have 20 snow days left this year, I am convinced the school system will use them at the drop of a hat.

Lol, yeah, we live in very different areas. ;) Hoping for the best in all our far-flung areas.

[westwoodmom04]

We are notorious for having schools canceled for "inclement weather" when there's zero-1" of snow. :) We have 20 snow days left this year, I am convinced the school system will use them at the drop of a hat.

Haha, I know where you are and that’s true. I think schools may close but Instacart most likely will still be available if we are sick and need to stay home.

[scrooks]

I definitely have 2 weeks worth of food but that is just because I always keep a lot on hand. We have an extra upright freezer and a spare fridge in our basement.

[TwinFoxes]

Haha, I know where you are and that’s true. I think schools may close but Instacart most likely will still be available if we are sick and need to stay home.

I read an interesting article about "flattening the curve". Basically, I *can* stock up, so I did (I didn't hoard, I didn't buy more than 1-2 of anything). Thus, I'm freeing up the Instacart people to deliver to people who couldn't stock up. And I'm not exposing the delivery people, or me, to extra germs. This article really made me consider my actions. I don't think everyone needs to stock up. But I put thought into my decision to do so. Before this and the CDC recommendation I hadn't done anything.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/preparing-for-coronavirus-to-strike-the-u-s/

[o_mom]

I read an interesting article about "flattening the curve". Basically, I *can* stock up, so I did (I didn't hoard, I didn't buy more than 1-2 of anything). Thus, I'm freeing up the Instacart people to deliver to people who couldn't stock up. And I'm not exposing the delivery people, or me, to extra germs. This article really made me consider my actions. I don't think everyone needs to stock up. But I put thought into my decision to do so. Before this and the CDC recommendation I hadn't done anything.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/preparing-for-coronavirus-to-strike-the-u-s/

Exactly. We have the means to buy ahead and space to store it. If it isn't used in a few months we will donate to the food pantry.

We also didn't buy excessive amounts of anything. I bought one 3-pack of wipes, not four like the guy in front of me.

[PZMommy]

Exactly. We have the means to buy ahead and space to store it. If it isn't used in a few months we will donate to the food pantry.

We also didn't buy excessive amounts of anything. I bought one 3-pack of wipes, not four like the guy in front of me.

Some people buying large amounts could be buying for work. Our principal bought a bunch of wipes out of her own money for the teachers to use in our classrooms since the district won’t give us anything. I also have had parents buying wipes and soap to donate to the classroom.

[AngB]

I read an interesting article about "flattening the curve". Basically, I *can* stock up, so I did (I didn't hoard, I didn't buy more than 1-2 of anything). Thus, I'm freeing up the Instacart people to deliver to people who couldn't stock up. And I'm not exposing the delivery people, or me, to extra germs. This article really made me consider my actions. I don't think everyone needs to stock up. But I put thought into my decision to do so. Before this and the CDC recommendation I hadn't done anything.

https://blogs.scientificamerican.com/observations/preparing-for-coronavirus-to-strike-the-u-s/

Thank you for this. This seems one of the best articles I've read. All the condescending "don't panic, I'm a doctor, wash your hands"-type articles are frustrating. I don't disagree with them but I think making reasonable preparations is wise when possible!

[zukeypur]

I agree that the elderly should consider the pneumococcal vaccine as it could be beneficial overall. But just to clarify - this protects against bacterial pneumonia. The new coronavirus causes viral pneumonia, which this vaccine will NOT protect against. However, it could potentially help if a coronavirus patient developed a SECONDARY bacterial pneumonia, but my understanding is that this is far less likely.

Consider the pneumococcal vaccine in elderly patients for their overall health but definitely be careful of scaring the elderly into thinking this vaccine is needed right now and will protect against coronavirus pneumonia, because it won't. (Myira, not saying you were implying this but since it's in a coronavirus thread, just wanted to clarify!!)
A large number of the deaths from the 1918 flu were from secondary pneumonia, so this is a great recommendation. I made sure my parents all had theirs before the beginning of this flu season.

This pretty much sums up my thoughts on this. Nothing seems clear and concise. I'm an ICU nurse at a large academic medical center and our unit will get the positive cases. We've been preparing since January and I was trained weeks ago. I'm hearing that it is droplet transmission - wash hands, avoid sick people - but at the same time, healthcare workers are being trained for airborne transmission. So do we truly not know or is it a matter of being overly cautious?

I still haven't done anything extra to prep our family. We could probably eat for 2 weeks off our food but it wouldn't be anyone's choice foods after a week or so. We haven't changed our routines. Trying to encourage my kids to wash hands more often but they are still gross. :) DH flies out tomorrow as his company hasn't halted travel, while others have. I believe that the lack of straightforward action list from one credible source (CDC?) is driving the uncertainty and panic.
In one of my lab nerd newsletters yesterday, there was a study that suggested possible fecal-oral transmission as well. There is, according to this article, gastrointestinal symptoms as well. "In one study, researchers said that many patients with COVID-19 experienced GI symptoms before respiratory symptoms and scientists have isolated the live virus in patients' stool suggesting the virus might be spread through fecal-oral transmission."

We are already super vigilant about handwashing, especially before meal prep or eating, and we really try to instill this in our kids. We usually have a pretty stocked pantry, but DH went to Costco and restocked the freezer and bought a little extra last week. I hate going to the store, so I like to keep lots of food on hand so that I can minimize my trips. I usually just go for fresh fruits and veggies. In the case of a quarantine, we will just forego fresh fruits and veggies. I already make our bread, so I made sure we had plenty of flour. We may get sick of PB&J's but we won't starve. I also made sure I had enough flour to bake some bread for the neighbors so they don't have to get out.

I talked to an ER doc friend last week, and she is worried about the healthcare system's ability to cope, and the ridiculous quarantines of everyone who may have come in contact with an infected patient in the hospital. (I'm talking about healthcare workers, not the general public). If we quarantine everyone who comes in contact with a patient, we are going to run out of hospital staff pretty quickly. One positive patient will take out the registration clerk, triage nurse, primary nurse, and physician for two weeks. That is unsustainable. Hopefully they will come up with a better strategy before it gets bad. Our hospital is screening all visitors at the entrance. There are already patients who are testing negative for everything else (we have a molecular panel that tests for over 20 of the most common causes of respiratory illness), but they are not confirmed cases because it's so hard to get a test for SARS-CoV2. I keep watching the news to see if they are getting tested, but nothing yet. I am not worried about my family getting it, but I do worry about my elderly neighbors. In the meantime, I am spending my spring break working on converting all of my classes to online classes in preparation for the likely close of my campus after spring break.

[petesgirl]

A large number of the deaths from the 1918 flu were from secondary pneumonia, so this is a great recommendation. I made sure my parents all had theirs before the beginning of this flu season.

In one of my lab nerd newsletters yesterday, there was a study that suggested possible fecal-oral transmission as well. There is, according to this article, gastrointestinal symptoms as well. "In one study, researchers said that many patients with COVID-19 experienced GI symptoms before respiratory symptoms and scientists have isolated the live virus in patients' stool suggesting the virus might be spread through fecal-oral transmission."

We are already super vigilant about handwashing, especially before meal prep or eating, and we really try to instill this in our kids. We usually have a pretty stocked pantry, but DH went to Costco and restocked the freezer and bought a little extra last week. I hate going to the store, so I like to keep lots of food on hand so that I can minimize my trips. I usually just go for fresh fruits and veggies. In the case of a quarantine, we will just forego fresh fruits and veggies. I already make our bread, so I made sure we had plenty of flour. We may get sick of PB&J's but we won't starve. I also made sure I had enough flour to bake some bread for the neighbors so they don't have to get out.

I talked to an ER doc friend last week, and she is worried about the healthcare system's ability to cope, and the ridiculous quarantines of everyone who may have come in contact with an infected patient in the hospital. (I'm talking about healthcare workers, not the general public). If we quarantine everyone who comes in contact with a patient, we are going to run out of hospital staff pretty quickly. One positive patient will take out the registration clerk, triage nurse, primary nurse, and physician for two weeks. That is unsustainable. Hopefully they will come up with a better strategy before it gets bad. Our hospital is screening all visitors at the entrance. There are already patients who are testing negative for everything else (we have a molecular panel that tests for over 20 of the most common causes of respiratory illness), but they are not confirmed cases because it's so hard to get a test for SARS-CoV2. I keep watching the news to see if they are getting tested, but nothing yet. I am not worried about my family getting it, but I do worry about my elderly neighbors. In the meantime, I am spending my spring break working on converting all of my classes to online classes in preparation for the likely close of my campus after spring break.

Ugh, GI symptoms too? Every time my kids get sick now I'm going to think its Coronavirus! And they frequently get coughs and runny noses this time of year. I guess it doesn't matter though, as long as they can breath ok.

One of our hospitals set up a negative air pressure tent outisde the ER, so they can screen patients before they go inside.

[marymoo86]

Ugh, GI symptoms too? Every time my kids get sick now I'm going to think its Coronavirus! And they frequently get coughs and runny noses this time of year. I guess it doesn't matter though, as long as they can breath ok


This is my concern. We are entering on prime allergy season and now everyone is going to freak out over any cough or sneeze.

[zukeypur]

I have had a dry cough for several days, although not too bad and no fever. Still, the thought has crossed my mind that it might be CV after going to Disney last week. I'm sure it's not, but it's funny how that thought creeps into your head.

[mikala]

I read the same "flattening the curve" article. A friend who works for our local health department is generally easy going but suggested a full month of supplies just I case. I stocked up onalkof the stuff we use anyway and figure we'll work through Amy excess or donate to the food pantry if this is nothing. We have lots of frozen meat, vegetables, fruit for smoothies, black beans, tomato products, frozen bread, pasta, oatmeal/pancake mix, chicken broth, extra bag of flour and sugar, coffee, dog food, etc. Plus Gatorade and some of our go to sick foods like saltines and popsicles.

[smilequeen]

Wrong thread...

[squimp]

This is the most useful article I have read in the last few days. Thank heavens for the public health professionals.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/opinions/osterholm-coronavirus-interview-bergen/index.html

[mikala]

This is the most useful article I have read in the last few days. Thank heavens for the public health professionals.

https://www.cnn.com/2020/03/10/opinions/osterholm-coronavirus-interview-bergen/index.html

Thanks for sharing. This is a useful perspective.

[squimp]

Thanks for sharing. This is a useful perspective.

It helped me think about some of my upcoming travel for sure.

[DualvansMommy]

This is my concern. We are entering on prime allergy season and now everyone is going to freak out over any cough or sneeze.

It’s already happening at our middle school district. A mom posted in our local FB group saying she was told her kids can’t come in school until verified by the allergist. That it is allergies her kids is having now instead of cold/cough. And allergist charge 50 co pay just to write a note. The health care should start waiving those fees, otherwise people won’t come in.


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[ang79]

It helped me think about some of my upcoming travel for sure.

DH and I are supposed to go to Jamaica with close friends in mid-June, a no-kids trip for our anniversary. When we booked the trip, we did buy travel insurance but not the "cancel for any reason" kind, as it was super pricey. And we knew that was the only way to back out of the trip but it was early February and the disease was really only impacting China at that point and they thought it would die out with warmer weather come April and May. But now it is sounding like it could stick around for awhile (or come back). Which makes makes me worry a bit about the trip. Not so much about catching the virus, but more about being stuck there or not being allowed back in the country.

[petesgirl]

It’s already happening at our middle school district. A mom posted in our local FB group saying she was told her kids can’t come in school until verified by the allergist. That it is allergies her kids is having now instead of cold/cough. And allergist charge 50 co pay just to write a note. The health care should start waiving those fees, otherwise people won’t come in.


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That's completely ridiculous to ban a student who hasn't tested positive and who hasn't had contact with a positive person, IMO. Ugh.

[westwoodmom04]

Interesting news, a promising new anti-viral is being used in Washington State to treat coronavirus. https://fortune.com/2020/03/10/gilead-coronavirus-treatment-remdesivir-being-used-washington-cdc/

[Tenasparkl]

Interesting news, a promising new anti-viral is being used in Washington State to treat coronavirus. https://fortune.com/2020/03/10/gilead-coronavirus-treatment-remdesivir-being-used-washington-cdc/

This is pretty fascinating. I have to wonder why on earth the company is called Gilead though!

[MSWR0319]

This is my concern. We are entering on prime allergy season and now everyone is going to freak out over any cough or sneeze.

DS is sneezing like a crazy man the last few days. I know it's allergies because it's suddenly warmed up and daffodils are starting to sprout. I keep telling him someone is going to freak out he has coronavirus.

[wendibird22]

DS is sneezing like a crazy man the last few days. I know it's allergies because it's suddenly warmed up and daffodils are starting to sprout. I keep telling him someone is going to freak out he has coronavirus.

DH has a sinus infection (was sneezing all day one day and then had bloodshot eyes and sinus pain the next) and DD1 has a sore throat and cold. DH of course has a man cold response and said "This isn't a symptom of covid is it?!" No husband, fever and dry cough. You have sneezing and sinus pain. You are fine. You aren't going to die!

[smilequeen]

DH has a sinus infection (was sneezing all day one day and then had bloodshot eyes and sinus pain the next) and DD1 has a sore throat and cold. DH of course has a man cold response and said "This isn't a symptom of covid is it?!" No husband, fever and dry cough. You have sneezing and sinus pain. You are fine. You aren't going to die!

I have a similar thing, painful clogged sinuses, mild fever, sore throat. No cough, no shortness of breath. I know it's not Covid19 but I feel like I have to hole up in the house so as not to freak people out. I had to go buy myself some saline and Nyquil and I went to Target super early (after school drop off) and super fast. Meds and Starbucks and back home to bed.

[Kestrel]

Any news on treatment measures? I have some cough medicine and fever reducer if needed, plus the humidifier. Wondering what else I should have on hand? Zinc? Cough drops? Decongestant like Sudafed or similar?

[Myira]

Okay I just read this, made me tear up. It’s scary that however small the percentage may be, in a small number of cases young people have died in Wuhan.

https://www.nytimes.com/interactive/2020/03/13/world/asia/coronavirus-death-life.html


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[PZMommy]

That story is so sad and so scary! I don’t know why people aren’t taking this seriously!!

[dogmom]

Update in first post.

[Philly Mom]

You saw this. Amazing to read your thoughts from back in February.

[essnce629]

Dogmom, I have a question. Are you personally seeing people with asthma having an increased risk of severe Covid? I see that type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, etc all increase your risk of severe disease, but I'm seeing mixed things on asthma. I have a friend who has mild asthma, barely ever uses her inhaler, and thinks she's high risk. I'd think not. Maybe if she had severe asthma and used a steroidal inhaler regularly?

[Liziz]

Wow - February doesn't seem that far away, but it also seems like a lifetime ago. Dogmom, I credit you for helping me realize earlier than I might otherwise have realized how serious this was and being just a bit more prepared. My heart breaks for you to hear how emotionally draining this is and the stress of worry over family members. It breaks for everyone who has lost someone to COVID19. Thank you for the care you are giving to others, and for continually taking the time to come on here and share with us. Your reality is definitely not the reality most of us are seeing, and it's helpful (in an awful way, but important) to hear this perspective.

[DualvansMommy]

Thank you for all you do, dogmom. It really infuriates me to see how people are not appreciating the toll and sacrifices nurses and doctors have. Even when it may not be *your* reality for them, it’s also isn’t a time of shame or talking about taking away the freedom nonsense talk when masks requirement or/any other town rules you have, just do it! Otherwise feel free to volunteer yourself on the frontlines.


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[wendibird22]

Wow - February doesn't seem that far away, but it also seems like a lifetime ago. Dogmom, I credit you for helping me realize earlier than I might otherwise have realized how serious this was and being just a bit more prepared. My heart breaks for you to hear how emotionally draining this is and the stress of worry over family members. It breaks for everyone who has lost someone to COVID19. Thank you for the care you are giving to others, and for continually taking the time to come on here and share with us. Your reality is definitely not the reality most of us are seeing, and it's helpful (in an awful way, but important) to hear this perspective.

Absolutely agree.

[dogmom]

Dogmom, I have a question. Are you personally seeing people with asthma having an increased risk of severe Covid? I see that type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, etc all increase your risk of severe disease, but I'm seeing mixed things on asthma. I have a friend who has mild asthma, barely ever uses her inhaler, and thinks she's high risk. I'd think not. Maybe if she had severe asthma and used a steroidal inhaler regularly?

1) I don’t think we have the data and analysis to get down to the granular level of mild to moderate to severe asthma.
2) I ONLY see severe cases, there is a lot of in between. You can not have any symptoms, something like a flu (where you are flat on your ass for a week, then tired for a week then over), to sick for 2 weeks and a month plus no energy, to in the hospital for 1-2 weeks, to 3-4 weeks in hospital and rehab, to dead. There is a nurse that got it early (not from work) out for two weeks, back for 2-3, then she had cardiac symptoms and has been out since. It’s a tricky disease.
3) From my observations, which is not worth much, the youngest groups are all obese (20-30s) or severe asthma, once you get past 40 it’s a grab bag, there are a lot of people in their 50s with just high blood pressure well controlled on meds which is healthy for the most part. I mean that’s me even when I was running half marathons and in great shape. Then there is the elderly that have other conditions, they are doing the worse. However, they aren’t making up s big of the ICU population as I would think. Anecdotally I think that is because some of them are making decisions not to come in, are staying in assistant living arrangements and trying to tough it out there, or coming in and refusing to be on a ventilator after conversations. So I think more of them are showing up in deaths than ICU census. Don’t get me wrong, over 65 is still the majority of the hospital patients won’t Covid, I just think there are less than you would think from death reports. Of course the flip side is the 80 yo demented person that the family is insisting we do everything for, it’s heartbreaking.
4) Whether your friend is high risk or not I would not speculate on and would urge you not to get involved. Between her and her doctor.

[ErinMC]

Wow - February doesn't seem that far away, but it also seems like a lifetime ago. Dogmom, I credit you for helping me realize earlier than I might otherwise have realized how serious this was and being just a bit more prepared. My heart breaks for you to hear how emotionally draining this is and the stress of worry over family members. It breaks for everyone who has lost someone to COVID19. Thank you for the care you are giving to others, and for continually taking the time to come on here and share with us. Your reality is definitely not the reality most of us are seeing, and it's helpful (in an awful way, but important) to hear this perspective.

Yes, this. As someone who has had the relative luxury of working from home right now (granted, with 3 kids here doing school work too), and safely isolated, it's a good reminder to hear how those on the front lines are struggling too. Thank you - for that reminder and for all that you're doing.

[MSWR0319]

Thank you dogmom for warning us and giving the update, as well as serving on the front lines. You are a hero!

[JustMe]

Thank you, dogmom. I know you are far from the only one who has been impacted so strongly and directly, but you are a BBB member and we care about you. I take Covid 19 very seriously and am not taking unnecessary risks.

[Globetrotter]

It’s chilling to read these posts and see where we are now. Thank you dogmom and others for the early warning!
I too have been wondering about asthma since DS and I have mild asthma. It does not appear to be a huge risk for him, though I suppose I am at risk because of my age, anyway.

[Philly Mom]

I just reread the entire thread. It is fascinating to read the commentary and thoughts of two months ago with the hindsight of over 90,000 people dead in that time frame.

[twowhat?]

Yes, a BIG thank you to Dogmom!!! I still think this could become (or already is) part of our regular rotation of viruses, obviously with more severe consequences, until (and if) we get a vaccine and it's exactly that huge range of severity that scares me...apart from the obvious comorbidities (obesity, diabetes, etc), there doesn't seem to be much to tell us why an otherwise healthy person could get seriously ill and die.



Dogmom, I have a question. Are you personally seeing people with asthma having an increased risk of severe Covid? I see that type 2 diabetes, high blood pressure, obesity, etc all increase your risk of severe disease, but I'm seeing mixed things on asthma. I have a friend who has mild asthma, barely ever uses her inhaler, and thinks she's high risk. I'd think not. Maybe if she had severe asthma and used a steroidal inhaler regularly?

We have a range of asthma in our family, from mild (doesn't need daily steroid inhaler but needs steroid inhaler and rescue meds only when she gets sick) to moderate (needs daily steroid inhaler) to me (has been using her rescue meds way too often due to allergies? and needs to get in to see my doctor about starting daily steroid inhaler). I tell everyone we are high risk and until we know more, I don't think it's a dishonest exaggeration. I feel like anyone with asthma could potentially be at a high risk for a severe respiratory infection. We just don't know enough yet. As a person with asthma, the thought of getting severely ill/dying from this virus is a terrifying thought and I am more than happy to keep the "high risk" label to help protect us (in terms of work-related things like continuing to allow us to work from home/not travel, etc) and even as an excuse if needed to turn down playdates if we're not yet comfortable with the idea. DH has HBP (well controlled with meds for now) and is over 50 and I lump him into our "high-risk" descriptor. :)

[bisous]

Yes, a BIG thank you to Dogmom!!! I still think this could become (or already is) part of our regular rotation of viruses, obviously with more severe consequences, until (and if) we get a vaccine and it's exactly that huge range of severity that scares me...apart from the obvious comorbidities (obesity, diabetes, etc), there doesn't seem to be much to tell us why an otherwise healthy person could get seriously ill and die.




We have a range of asthma in our family, from mild (doesn't need daily steroid inhaler but needs steroid inhaler and rescue meds only when she gets sick) to moderate (needs daily steroid inhaler) to me (has been using her rescue meds way too often due to allergies? and needs to get in to see my doctor about starting daily steroid inhaler). I tell everyone we are high risk and until we know more, I don't think it's a dishonest exaggeration. I feel like anyone with asthma could potentially be at a high risk for a severe respiratory infection. We just don't know enough yet. As a person with asthma, the thought of getting severely ill/dying from this virus is a terrifying thought and I am more than happy to keep the "high risk" label to help protect us (in terms of work-related things like continuing to allow us to work from home/not travel, etc) and even as an excuse if needed to turn down playdates if we're not yet comfortable with the idea. DH has HBP (well controlled with meds for now) and is over 50 and I lump him into our "high-risk" descriptor. :)

I appreciate your perspective on this. DH has asthma and we're in our 40s. Our age alone makes us a little more afraid. The asthma really scares me. DS1 has type 1 diabetes. His endo doesn't think it should be a big deal with COVID 19 but I am not convinced. (I would love to be, but I'm afraid). For now, it gives us comfort to say that we are high risk. We don't know for sure that we are, but it seems foolhardy to risk it when we really don't know (I would venture to say that nobody knows enough right now!)

[Kestrel]

Thank you for your viewpoint, Dogmom.

While I was never one of those who thought this would be just a bad flu season, I did not think it would ever get this bad. Your point of view is helpful because most people don't see what you see.

[bisous]

Thank you for your viewpoint, Dogmom.

While I was never one of those who thought this would be just a bad flu season, I did not think it would ever get this bad. Your point of view is helpful because most people don't see what you see.

I agree that this is especially useful right now! Unfortunately I know people who were a bit spooked by the virus in March but as our area has not seen a giant surge they are now back to being skeptics. We need witnesses who can tell us what it’s really like and why we need to still be cautious!

[AnnieW625]

Thanks to all of the nurses, doctors, and other first responders (and spouses if they are one as well) on this board.

Also my prayers and thoughts are with anyone who has lost a loved one during this time.


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