You can't expect to still get paid if you refuse to work!!!

[smiles33]

I'm feeling so annoyed and protective of my DH right now. Basically, DH is planning on reopening his orthodontic office as soon as the County confirms dentists are essential (our state already did, but the County is stricter). So he reached out to the woman who cleans his office once/week (on the weekend when no one is there). She's not tech-savvy so he usually texts her daughter (and the daughter texts him when her mom needs something, like extra garbage bags).

NOTE: DH has been paying the cleaner full pay during this 2+ month shutdown. That is a KEY fact. Most people are NOT getting full pay from the employer while sitting at home since she can't clean his office remotely. Anyhow, the daughter replies that her mom isn't comfortable returning to work and she understands if he has to hire someone else. DH replies with a long text saying he understands her concerns, he's nervous about the health risks to his family, too, and he's sad about ending their employment relationship, but he needs someone to clean his office. He explains that he has an obligation to his patients to reopen and make sure their treatment plans are on track. Not seeing the orthodontist for a few months can put them at risk.

The daughter texts back a curt reply about how she understands he has a duty to his patients, about how her mother is "so sad about this abrupt end" and promises to mail the office key back to him. If she hadn't used the word abrupt, I don't think DH would feel so terrible right now. It felt like a deliberate poke and an insinuation that DH did something wrong!

DH is now feeling so guilty and I know he isn't going to sleep well tonight. I'm so annoyed on his behalf. I tried to reassure him that the daughter was just being a little passive aggressive, but I know this is going to gnaw at him. He's a good man. He always tries to do what is right. This just SUCKS that her off-hand text is going to make him upset and stew over this for hours. That's the problem with text/email. Maybe she intended to be passive-aggressive, maybe she didn't.

Ugh. I guess I'll try to go to bed now since it's almost midnight and I still have to work from home tomorrow.

[SnuggleBuggles]

That sucks. Could be a miscommunication too which is even worse. Is there anyway to get the employee on the phone?


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[Liziz]

That totally sucks that your DH feels guilty. FWIW, I don't think there's anything passive aggressive or even ill-intentioned about using the word "abrupt". It's just reality. This is all abrupt. Two (or maybe three) months ago many of us were living our normal lives with ZERO idea what was about to hit us. Zero idea how our entire lives would shift to this quarantine-everywhere-is-dangerous-we-can't-even-send-kids-to-school mentality. Honestly, everything feels abrupt to me right now. My kids just ended school, a month early. No goodbyes, no last day festivities -- just doing video learning one day, and no school the next. Abrupt. Our vacation plans for the summer went from awesome to non-existent pretty much overnight. Abrupt.

For all you know, this cleaner feels super guilty right now -- guilty that she's "abruptly" abandoning your husband, who has been a great employer to her, because she doesn't feel safe working yet. She might feel terrible for taking his very generous pay over the past two months, and then not being willing to come back when he needs her. She might feel like she's "abruptly" abandoning him, and feel bad about it.

Anyways -- just wanted to frame it a little differently -- I really don't think your DH is doing ANYTHING wrong in this situation, and I honestly really don't think the cleaner/her daughter think he is, either. I'd hate for yall to be thinking negatively of them right now when it's unlikely they're thinking negatively of you.

[nfceagles]

I agree with previous poster. I wouldn’t read too much into this. I was waiting for the rest of the story before realizing the reference to an abrupt end was the issue. Hard times all around. I agree, she may feel terrible that she’s been accepting pay and suddenly won’t return to work. My guess is there is going to be a huge demand for cleaning services before long. Your DH will probably need a lot more than what she was doing before. Maybe he can tell her to check with him if she gets to the point where she would like to return to work.


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[Melaine]

I'm sorry. This is very frustrating. I would feel the same as you. I do think it's possible when she said Sorry for the abrupt end, she was expressing regret to drop her client abruptly, rather than the other way around. I think when communicating with a go-between there is a lot of room for misunderstanding, especially with text so I would try to assume the best. But for him to have paid her for this time and now have her quit, is honestly pretty unprofessional IMO. She should have been prepared for this and perhaps communicated ahead of time that she was uncomfortable returning. Accepting the money and then quitting is not honest.

[smiles33]

Thanks everyone. Perhaps we are overreacting and being too sensitive here. Yet my base feeling is that she wasn't very gracious in that reply text. I thought the daughter would say something more along the lines of, "I'm so sorry my mom isn't comfortable working and we appreciate your understanding. Thanks for all your support. We'll mail the key in." That would have acknowledged that DH isn't the asshole here and she appreciates him. Instead, the references to "yes, we understand you have a duty to your patients" and "my mom is so sad about this abrupt departure" make it sound to me like "we grudgingly accept that you're firing her because your patients are more important."

I don't think DH is going to call her, as there's nothing more to say. She decided she can't work right now, he's already said he has to look for someone new, and there's no way he's going to continue to pay her while he's paying a new person.

Anyway, now he has to find a new cleaning crew. This woman was recommended by another tenant in a neighboring unit in the same building. For the record, his staff cleans the patient operatory after every patient, so the weekly cleaner is more for general surfaces. Her role is emptying the garbage, mopping the floor, cleaning the bathrooms, etc. I agree he'll likely need a new crew who comes more than once/week, as I can't see his staff cleaning the bathroom daily and it likely needs that now.

Thanks for letting me vent. We'll see how DH is this morning (he's still in bed as he likely didn't sleep well).

[sariana]

My very paranoid self thinks your husband should look into changing the locks at his office.

I'm sorry that this happened. This whole situation has been so hard on everyone. :-(

[smiles33]

UPDATE: DH texted the daughter again to say he will keep the job open for the mom if/when she feels comfortable returning. He will let the replacement cleaning crew know they are temporarily filling in until she returns. I think he's being so overly nice about this, but he feels it's the right thing to do.

The daughter replied something to the effect of thank you because "my mom was extremely distraught last night at the loss of a long-time client." Isn't that laying it on thick? I still find that annoying but at this point I'm walking away from this. DH proposed a solution that he feels more comfortable with and I'm letting it go.

[AnnieW625]

UPDATE: DH texted the daughter again to say he will keep the job open for the mom if/when she feels comfortable returning. He will let the replacement cleaning crew know they are temporarily filling in until she returns. I think he's being so overly nice about this, but he feels it's the right thing to do.

The daughter replied something to the effect of thank you because "my mom was extremely distraught last night at the loss of a long-time client." Isn't that laying it on thick? I still find that annoying but at this point I'm walking away from this. DH proposed a solution that he feels more comfortable with and I'm letting it go.

As someone who works in workers compensation and sees people try to file claims all of the time for this kind of thing (employment ends due to some issue while there has been no report of any kind of injury) and often language is due to a miss communication I think your husband is doing the right thing. I also think he should extend the offer in writing just in case she does try to file or her daughter tries to file a claim on her behalf. It looks good on your husband that he is keeping the job for her.


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[niccig]

I think that’s a compromise your husband is happy with, especially if he’s been happy with her work. The pandemic has upended everyone. Some people are more at risk and can’t return to work as others can. If he insists on her returning and she gets ill, she could blame his insistence. It’s a tricky spot for all employers and employees.


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[wallawala]

As someone who works in workers compensation and sees people try to file claims all of the time for this kind of thing (employment ends due to some issue while there has been no report of any kind of injury) and often language is due to a miss communication I think your husband is doing the right thing. I also think he should extend the offer in writing just in case she does try to file or her daughter tries to file a claim on her behalf. It looks good on your husband that he is keeping the job for her.


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This!! He should also document he the dates he paid her that she was not working. Our nanny from LAST YEAR filed for unemployment, and as we are her last employer it will affect our unemployement insurance rates (mandatory). Yay! She hasn't worked for us in 8 months, but since we are her last job, we are on the hook. It was a nasty "breakup" -she quit on the spot after working for us for a year, and I thought we were done. I wish I'd sent her a termination letter documenting her quitting for the records. She is still listing us as a reference for new nanny jobs. I just don't respond to the reference requests to keep us out of any interaction.

[bisous]

Your DH DEFINITELY did not do anything wrong. And I'm so sorry that this is stressful for him. I can tell you it is probably more stressful for her though. I can't imagine being in a position whereby you have to choose between being able to afford rent or food and being exposed to germs that will take your life. I think like a PP stated, this is hard for everyone right now. I think your DH's offer is more than fair and I also think documenting is a really good idea. I want to reiterate that you guys should not feel like you are doing anything wrong. Whether the daughter intended to convey disdain or passive aggressiveness or not, she is also expressing her disappointment in the situation that is also hard for them. But at the end of the day your DH already went above and beyond and there isn't any more that you can do at this time.

[almostmom]

I know this is bugging you, but I don't think she's laying it on thick. I would take that at face value that she was distraught. Just like your husband felt bad all night, so did she. Neither is in a winning position - she doesn't feel safe going to work (totally understandable), but doesn't want to lose her job (good employer, and money!). Your husband doesn't want to fire her, but needs a cleaner. I think he found a great solution, which is to save her job for when she is ready to return.
This whole thing is difficult for everyone, on so many levels. I would give her the benefit of the doubt and don't blame her for text messages that aren't even hers. I'm sure it's stressful to think of not having an income moving forward. And hopefully when your husband first started paying her even though she wasn't working, she said thank you.

Hang in there, breathe, and let this go. And hope your husband can find another cleaner--

[♥ms.pacman♥]

I know this is bugging you, but I don't think she's laying it on thick. I would take that at face value that she was distraught. Just like your husband felt bad all night, so did she. Neither is in a winning position - she doesn't feel safe going to work (totally understandable), but doesn't want to lose her job (good employer, and money!). Your husband doesn't want to fire her, but needs a cleaner. I think he found a great solution, which is to save her job for when she is ready to return.
This whole thing is difficult for everyone, on so many levels. I would give her the benefit of the doubt and don't blame her for text messages that aren't even hers. I'm sure it's stressful to think of not having an income moving forward. And hopefully when your husband first started paying her even though she wasn't working, she said thank you.

Hang in there, breathe, and let this go. And hope your husband can find another cleaner--
:yeahthat:
i think you are overreacting /overthinking this. you husband has gone above and beyond, not much else he can do. you cannot let your/his sense of guilt trump the circumstances other people are dealing with. i think y'all just need to give grace at these times. could the daughter have been more polite or appreciative in her reply? OF COURSE. But her reality and you/your DH's reality is not remotely the same, and i think you need to give some grace here. I think bisous put it very well - while you guys are bothered at someone possibly acting ungrateful, and your DH having to deal with finding a new cleaner - while on the other side, they are likely worried about loss of income and how to get food on the table without putting themselves at risk. maybe she has an elderly relative at home that is immunocompromised. Bottom line - while you are frustrated (and have every right to be, this situation is hard on everyone), remember that this it's not about you or your DH. your DH has done the best and most considerate thing in this situation, and that's enough.

also: the whole texting the daughter thing - lots of things gets lost in translation, it's like a game of telephone. text is probably the worst way to infer things in these kinds of communications.

eta: i have a DH that sounds similar to yours (very strong sense of what is right morally, agonizes over things liek this)- he was a university lecturer and would spend evenings fretting over certain situations students would find themselves in, and feeling so helpless about doing the right thing in the situation, if he did all he could, whether or not the student realized how much he had to do to help, etc.. e.g. students finding themselves in really bad situations due to COVID, DH trying to make arrangements/exceptions to help them, but then students still frustrated they still couldn't do x, y, z, going AWOL, or whatever. based on all this i would just say you just have to give grace and trust you/your DH did all you could and leave it at that. also- a reminder that kids in their early 20s , 1) grew up in a different era technology-wise, 2) their brains are still not developed yet and don't have the best communication style or way to show appreciation, especially in times of trauma. they often are going through very difficult/awful personal situations at home but don't have the maturity to explain it, or feel embarrassed doing so, especially to an authority figure like an employer or a professor. i honestly would never have realized this if not for the countless situations my DH found himself in with dealing with various student situations over the years.