Inside church services with precautions - am I crazy to still want to avoid this?

[ang79]

Our church has opened back up. They are taking precautions (50% capacity, mask wearing, hand sanitizer available, every other pew roped off and only families supposed to sit together in the same pew, no Bibles or hymnals in the pews, etc.), but because they are holding it inside, I am not comfortable with that. Probably because I read a lot and there are many cases where Covid has spread in church settings (Oregon now has a huge spike in cases due to an outbreak at a church). My church was pre-recording an online sermon and music earlier in the week and email the video so we could watch it on Sunday, but now they have decided to just record the live service, then send that video on Monday, so we won't have it to watch on Sunday, unless we skip a week and then are a week behind. They don't have wifi capability to live stream the service at this point (or the tech know-how I think). I'm upset with this, because i know there are people who are high risk and avoiding group settings and now they won't have a Sunday morning service to watch. While we are not considered high risk, DD2 did have an episode a few years ago where she spiked a very high fever very fast and ended up in the ER, then transferred to a children's hospital for the night because she was hallucinating, so the thought of having to watch her constantly for fever that could last for weeks causes me pause and makes me want to not have anyone here catch this! DH thinks I'm being overly cautious and he wants to return to his church service (at a different church). They are also taking precautions, but are inside. Our area is doing fairly well with cases right now in PA, but I also think now that things are opened up more people are taking more freedoms going out, not wearing masks, etc.

I guess I just feel like everyone else looks at me like I'm being overly cautious and crazy, but inside with 100 people or so makes me uncomfortable. Because while I can control my actions and to an extent my kids, I can't control others around me. I realize that we do need to get back to some normalcy and we are starting to meet up with small groups of family and friends outside (I feel like when I say outside only, again people think I'm odd). DD1 wants to start cross country practices this summer when they start up at local parks (still waiting for more info on this), but again, its outside, the kids can space out, and the practices are only for an hour a few times a week. DH and I have been to stores (masks are still required in most stores here) but the kids haven't. We have done take out but no plans to eat inside at restaurants for a long while. So we are not totally isolated. But I'd prefer to keep my exposure as limited as possible. Sorry, I guess this is more for the BP, but am also curious how others are handling things like church. I really wish they would do outside services but that doesn't seem to be an interest here.

[SnuggleBuggles]

I probably wouldn't go. I don't see the rush. Anyone judging you should take a step back and reflect on their judgmentalness. ;)

[MSWR0319]

I probably wouldn't go. I don't see the rush. Anyone judging you should take a step back and reflect on their judgmentalness. ;)

:yeahthat:

I would not go. We are not stepping inside of buildings for awhile other than to shop only when needed. Even my DH who does not worry about much is not ok going into buildings for group gatherings.

[Philly Mom]

I wouldn’t go either. PA numbers are really good right now. I just looked at my county and was shocked how much they dropped this month. Yet, I would not go back to synagogue. We do have streaming services but I can’t see myself there for a long time. It takes one person to cause a spike.

Outdoor small group activities, I am good with. Indoor activities I will skip other than when school starts again.


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[georgiegirl]

I don’t think you are crazy at all to avoid in person church services. (Quite the opposite...it’s crazy some churches are focusing on in person over distance/online services.)


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[BDKmom]

Our church opened back up this past Sunday with similar precautions as to what you mention. Seating was separated, two services to limit numbers, masks recommended. I decided to go to the earlier service, thinking there would be fewer people. I went alone, DH stayed home with the kids so I could check things out the first week. Ended up there were over 100 people there, with very few wearing masks. I was under the impression that there wouldn’t be congregational singing, however apparently I was mistaken, because the first thing they did was ask everyone to stand and sing. It was prefaced with a statement by the worship pastor to try to be considerate and not sing out, but it didn’t seem to make a difference. With so many people and few masks, I felt so uncomfortable that I left. I had been there all of about 10 minutes. Not to mention that before the service many people had been chatting and hugging, just like nothing was going on.

In your case, I would give it a week or two and see how it shakes out. Ask around of people who go what the atmosphere is like. If people had been wearing masks, social distancing before the service, and no congregational singing, I think I would have been fine with it. But with things going how they did, I will likely be sitting out at least another month. I am most certain that God understands. And I don’t really care what anyone else thinks. [emoji4]

[carolinamama]

I would not go to any gathering indoors. I've found that those venturing out now don't tend to participate in aggressive mitigation efforts and that's not a crowd I'm comfortable around right now.

[WatchingThemGrow]

I would not go to any gathering indoors. I've found that those venturing out now don't tend to participate in aggressive mitigation efforts and that's not a crowd I'm comfortable around right now.

:yeahthat:

[Liziz]

You are not alone! We used to go every Sunday before the pandemic. Our church opened back up about 2 weeks ago, with similar precautions -- maybe even more cautious than yours (they're only allowing 25% capacity). We did not attend, and will not be attending for the foreseeable future. Like you, we're slowing opening ourselves up, but anything that involves prolonged time indoors with a group of people is still a hard no for me. I honestly am not sure when we will go back in person -- sad as it makes me, it's not going to be for a long time, I think. I fully believe that God cares more about our health and our behavior than where my butt happens to be sitting on Sunday morning. It does stink that you're not able to access the service online in the same way anymore, though. If it's important to you to participate every Sunday, then I'd find another Church's service for this Sunday (luckily, there's still TONS out there that are streaming services), then just do the week-behind thing from your own Church after this week. It stinks your church isn't able to livestream!

[gymnbomb]

I would not go, and I would be fine watching the service online on Monday or Tuesday or whatever day for your schedule best.


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[Melaine]

I am also not ready to face going back to church. It just feels like more do a risk and honestly less reward because the intimacy of church is already limited by social distancing so I just feel like it’s not really worth it. Our cases are really rising right now almost a hot spot.

[doberbrat]

I would not go to any gathering indoors. I've found that those venturing out now don't tend to participate in aggressive mitigation efforts and that's not a crowd I'm comfortable around right now.

Exactly! And I honestly feel calmer when I go to church - (I do not go nearly regularly enough!) I could really benefit going now but nope. And singing is a big risk factor so double Nope. Could you look around at other churches and find one that has online services on Sundays? Or drive through ones? -

[ang79]

Thanks for letting me know I'm not crazy and that there are similar thoughts to mine! Another local church is doing live stream services, so we can watch that this week on Sunday morning and then be a week "late" to watching our own service. I did watch part of the live service taped from last week, there is congregational singing, though everyone is supposed to be wearing masks. From my experience in attending church the last Sunday before things were shut down here, I'm just not sure if people will really distance appropriately. That last week I had to decline shaking hands and giving hugs and other kids were running up and hanging on my kids. It just feels easier (and safer) to worship from my house with my family for now, even though I do miss the singing and fellowship of being in church. We are actually getting a new pastor in a few weeks (current pastor was set to retire before Covid became a thing). I have heard that he is more tech savy, so maybe they will be able to eventually live stream services. I know I will have to get over all of this if/when school starts up again, but that is at least a month and half away, so things can change a lot in that time frame.

[zukeypur]

We are not going back anytime soon. We are enrolling the kids in online RE classes, but no church services.

[Jeanne]

Echo this

[Melaine]

We may try going around the corner to a church with outdoor services. I saw pics and they were doing an awesome job of distancing, each family brought their own tailgate set up and they had a big stage and sound equipment. I wonder if they are getting more attenders than usual since they are providing the outdoor option.

[gatorsmom]

You are not crazy. Until 2 weeks ago we were doing outside services which was wonderful. For the past 2
weeks everyone has been excited to start celebrating mass inside. Except us. We would rather be outside. There was some discussion about overflow seating being outside which would mean we could just stay outside for the entire service but so far, they haven’t arranged for that.

Don’t let anyone pressure you. For goodness sake, Christians are not suppose to judge! Shame on us when we do judge others! You have to make the best decisions you can for your family. No one can do that better than YOU.

[MSWR0319]

I just read an article about the places with the highest risk of infection based on what four epidemiologists felt was risky and what they would be avoiding. It included bars, churches, and large gatherings. The authors said that they ranked churches right up there with bars as the last place you want to be if all members were singing and not all were masked.

[bisous]

I just read an article about the places with the highest risk of infection based on what four epidemiologists felt was risky and what they would be avoiding. It included bars, churches, and large gatherings. The authors said that they ranked churches right up there with bars as the last place you want to be if all members were singing and not all were masked.

Was it this one?

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/06/from-hair-salons-to-gyms-experts-rank-36-activities-by-coronavirus-risk-level.htmlI almost linked it the other day. I find it fascinating. I am particularly surprised at how risk public pools seem to be (riskier than a casino?) and the level of disagreement among the experts over flying. But yeah, everyone thought church was dangerous!

OP, if helps at all our worldwide church is starting to open in some select areas but they've been clear that anyone who is concerned about their health is more than welcome to continue worshipping at home until they feel safe.

[Melaine]

Was it this one?

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/06/from-hair-salons-to-gyms-experts-rank-36-activities-by-coronavirus-risk-level.htmlI almost linked it the other day. I find it fascinating. I am particularly surprised at how risk public pools seem to be (riskier than a casino?) and the level of disagreement among the experts over flying. But yeah, everyone thought church was dangerous!

OP, if helps at all our worldwide church is starting to open in some select areas but they've been clear that anyone who is concerned about their health is more than welcome to continue worshipping at home until they feel safe.

Can’t open that article....it said public pools are high risk? I had literally read the opposite. I’m not happy to hear that!

[bisous]

Can’t open that article....it said public pools are high risk? I had literally read the opposite. I’m not happy to hear that!

It DEFINITELY did! It made me think of the BBB and I almost posted the article here. I thought the argument was interesting if a little strange. One key factor is the inability to wear masks in the water...

I'd love to see an article that refutes that because I too was operating under the assumption that outdoor swimming situations were relatively safe!

Let me try posting the article again.

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/06/from-hair-salons-to-gyms-experts-rank-36-activities-by-coronavirus-risk-level.html

Just google "36 activities by coronavirus risk level" if you can't access it. It is worth a read.

[SnuggleBuggles]

We likely will only be going to our pool on chilly, rainy days because it was uncomfortably crowded in the pool on a nice, sunny day. We basically staked out a tiny socially distant nook for ourselves and stayed there. Ds2 was uncomfortable with all of his peers playing together like a normal summer. In the pool, especially in the deep end, everyone is pretty much face to face. The whole time it felt like germs were going right to your face. I’m not a big germaphobe but I thought it was a pretty risky situation. Spacing poolside was lovely and I’d be fine chilling poolside with a drink and a book with an occasional dip in the water. But ds2 doesn’t want to go and play. And I am also missing pulling up a chair next to a friend to chat. It’s a weird year. Ds1 is there most every day lifeguarding. Of all jobs it seems pretty safe. They wear masks when not in the chair. In the chair, they’re well distanced.


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[carolinacool]

Can’t open that article....it said public pools are high risk? I had literally read the opposite. I’m not happy to hear that!

Because these "expert" articles are all over the dang place. One article I read said flying was high-risk, but this one puts it at a 5.

[MSWR0319]

Was it this one?

https://www.mlive.com/public-interest/2020/06/from-hair-salons-to-gyms-experts-rank-36-activities-by-coronavirus-risk-level.htmlI almost linked it the other day. I find it fascinating. I am particularly surprised at how risk public pools seem to be (riskier than a casino?) and the level of disagreement among the experts over flying. But yeah, everyone thought church was dangerous!

OP, if helps at all our worldwide church is starting to open in some select areas but they've been clear that anyone who is concerned about their health is more than welcome to continue worshipping at home until they feel safe.

This was the article it referenced. The article I read just summarized the top 5. I did think the top 5 made sense. Reading the full article I don’t fully agree with, but understand where they’re coming from. I don’t think riding a pontoon boat is riskier than having a dinner party, for example.

[bisous]

This was the article it referenced. The article I read just summarized the top 5. I did think the top 5 made sense. Reading the full article I don’t fully agree with, but understand where they’re coming from. I don’t think riding a pontoon boat is riskier than having a dinner party, for example.

I'm glad that others think some of the suggestions are just as hokey!

[mikala]

OP, not crazy at all. There have been several documented cases of virus spread in churches.

A friend just shared this from a friend who works at the WI Council of Churches.

https://www.facebook.com/pastorkerri/posts/10222761212400472
Kerri Parker
16 June at 17:28 ·
I spent a good part of my afternoon following up on a phone call about a church-based COVID cluster in Wisconsin. (Let the reader understand: even more phone calls, emails, and texts).

A significant number of people associated with this church have been sickened. The name and location and denomination don’t matter. Please don’t spend your time researching; it’s not the point of this message. The reality is: it could have been your church. I pray that it will not be.

Friends, shall I say it again? God can be worshipped without putting lives at risk.
PLEASE do not rush to gather in person in our church buildings.

This is not politics. This is not repression of your rights. This is a disease process that does not care about political or religious affiliation, pride, independence, financial concern, faithfulness or any other measure you care to apply here.

The conditions of viral spread do not yet merit gathering large groups. Small groups that gather would require major precautions to mitigate risk. I say this after countless hours of consulting with public health professionals whose PRIMARY CONCERN is keeping you and your community safe and healthy.

Friends, is it worth it to gather if one of these precious people in our beloved communities is lost because we insisted on a certain form of being together, in a certain place, on our preferred timeline? Is it holy, just, righteous, worthy of the kindom of God?

We cannot rush through wilderness.
We cannot rush through a time of exile.

Try as we might, we cannot hasten the fulfillment of the promised day. Watch for what is provided today. Seek the welfare of the community, today. Watch what God is doing with us here and now. God is shaping us. If you rush, you will miss it.

Dear Church, dear people, we want and need you healthy on the other side of this. There is no doubt that God has dreams for you. Take good care. Make sound choices. You are loved, more than you dare imagine.

[squimp]

Church services appear to be leading to large numbers of people being exposed. A church in a rural area of my state is the epicenter of a huge outbreak - 236 people testing positive.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/eastern-oregon-la-grande-church-union-county-states-largest-covid-19-outbreak/

I don't go to church, but I am avoiding my gym and any other indoor gatherings. For my job, my bread and butter is meetings. Face to face meetings, community meetings, etc. These have all gone online.

These are tough times, and we have to be patient and kind.

[ang79]

Church services appear to be leading to large numbers of people being exposed. A church in a rural area of my state is the epicenter of a huge outbreak - 236 people testing positive.

https://www.opb.org/news/article/eastern-oregon-la-grande-church-union-county-states-largest-covid-19-outbreak/

I don't go to church, but I am avoiding my gym and any other indoor gatherings. For my job, my bread and butter is meetings. Face to face meetings, community meetings, etc. These have all gone online.

These are tough times, and we have to be patient and kind.

Is that the case in Oregon? I read about that earlier this week, which makes me feel even more strongly about avoiding in person services for now.

[ang79]

OP, not crazy at all. There have been several documented cases of virus spread in churches.

A friend just shared this from a friend who works at the WI Council of Churches.

https://www.facebook.com/pastorkerri/posts/10222761212400472
Kerri Parker
16 June at 17:28 ·
I spent a good part of my afternoon following up on a phone call about a church-based COVID cluster in Wisconsin. (Let the reader understand: even more phone calls, emails, and texts).

A significant number of people associated with this church have been sickened. The name and location and denomination don’t matter. Please don’t spend your time researching; it’s not the point of this message. The reality is: it could have been your church. I pray that it will not be.

Friends, shall I say it again? God can be worshipped without putting lives at risk.
PLEASE do not rush to gather in person in our church buildings.

This is not politics. This is not repression of your rights. This is a disease process that does not care about political or religious affiliation, pride, independence, financial concern, faithfulness or any other measure you care to apply here.

The conditions of viral spread do not yet merit gathering large groups. Small groups that gather would require major precautions to mitigate risk. I say this after countless hours of consulting with public health professionals whose PRIMARY CONCERN is keeping you and your community safe and healthy.

Friends, is it worth it to gather if one of these precious people in our beloved communities is lost because we insisted on a certain form of being together, in a certain place, on our preferred timeline? Is it holy, just, righteous, worthy of the kindom of God?

We cannot rush through wilderness.
We cannot rush through a time of exile.

Try as we might, we cannot hasten the fulfillment of the promised day. Watch for what is provided today. Seek the welfare of the community, today. Watch what God is doing with us here and now. God is shaping us. If you rush, you will miss it.

Dear Church, dear people, we want and need you healthy on the other side of this. There is no doubt that God has dreams for you. Take good care. Make sound choices. You are loved, more than you dare imagine.

Thanks, that was a good way to put how I'm feeling. I miss worshiping in person with others. Church is part of my community. But I also feel it is our duty as Christians to take care of each other, watch out for each other, protect each other. Even with safety measure in place, this virus has a mind of its own and all it takes is one person to make it spread. Now that people are out shopping, vacationing and doing summer recreation together, the potential for more infected people just grows. Which is why I am still only comfortable in venturing out with one or two families at a time, in an outdoor location. Got ice cream with family friends today. Kids sat closer than I wanted while eating, but it was breezy and we weren't near any other families. It certainly cheered all of us up just to walk around and talk with someone other than each other for a change!

People aren't being mean when I say we aren't ready to meet inside spaces together just yet. But I feel like they give me an odd look like they don't quite get why. Had to tell my IL's last night that if it is raining on Sunday, we will reschedule a visit for Father's Day because there are just too many of us to sit on their front porch with appropriate space between us. They said that is fine but I think they think I'm taking this way too seriously.......Oh well!

[squimp]

Is that the case in Oregon? I read about that earlier this week, which makes me feel even more strongly about avoiding in person services for now.

Yes, and our state was doing really well, we closed early and were avoiding lots of cases, but then we started re-opening and people were not following guidelines - now stuff like this happens! Large indoor gatherings are going to be a problem. Also it's hard because although there is contact tracing, there are a lot of privacy issues coming up so we don't really know exactly how the transmissions occured. But what we are hearing is that there was perhaps one big event that spread it to the majority of these people, so they think it had to do with a church service. But I haven't seen the details yet.

[westwoodmom04]

Yes, and our state was doing really well, we closed early and were avoiding lots of cases, but then we started re-opening and people were not following guidelines - now stuff like this happens! Large indoor gatherings are going to be a problem. Also it's hard because although there is contact tracing, there are a lot of privacy issues coming up so we don't really know exactly how the transmissions occured. But what we are hearing is that there was perhaps one big event that spread it to the majority of these people, so they think it had to do with a church service. But I haven't seen the details yet.

It isn’t hard to reopen if a state mandates mask use. My state’s numbers are half what they were before we started reopening because masks are required whenever indoors in a business or other public place.

[ang79]

It isn’t hard to reopen if a state mandates mask use. My state’s numbers are half what they were before we started reopening because masks are required whenever indoors in a business or other public place.

I thought this was the case in PA as well, and most stores have it posted on their doors when you enter that you need a mask to shop there. I walked into a local Ace Hardware the other day to pick up something DH needed and it was only myself and one other shopper wearing a mask, no one else had one on, not even employees. A friend went to the grocery store last week and was surprised that about half of the shoppers did not have masks on. The guy beside me at the ATM at the gas station (inside) did not have a mask on today. People are getting lazy about following the rules now that our area has moved the the green reopening phase.

[squimp]

It isn’t hard to reopen if a state mandates mask use. My state’s numbers are half what they were before we started reopening because masks are required whenever indoors in a business or other public place.

Yes that is what our governor has now mandated. I sure hope it will help.

[Philly Mom]

I thought this was the case in PA as well, and most stores have it posted on their doors when you enter that you need a mask to shop there. I walked into a local Ace Hardware the other day to pick up something DH needed and it was only myself and one other shopper wearing a mask, no one else had one on, not even employees. A friend went to the grocery store last week and was surprised that about half of the shoppers did not have masks on. The guy beside me at the ATM at the gas station (inside) did not have a mask on today. People are getting lazy about following the rules now that our area has moved the the green reopening phase.

In my part of PA, masks are definitely being worn inside. Our numbers have really dropped. I hope people don’t get complacent.


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[Melaine]

Literally just got an email that a member of our church tested positive. Now I am grateful we have not been.

[JustMe]

Yes that is what our governor has now mandated. I sure hope it will help.

I'm in Oregon also. I think our governor has done an incredible job in general. Unfortunately, the mask mandate is only the counties that are showing the big increases. I get this in some ways as it is hard to mandate something new in places that are doing well. Still, I wish it would be mandated in my county, as I worry it sends the wrong message to people here and its not like people from other counties are not going to come here (especially since we are further along in the phase process and there will be more they are able to do).

OP, I agree that large groups indoors are not a good idea. I do want to clarify that I am pretty sure the church here that has been in the news for its outbreak was a result of them having a service when we were still on stay at home orders and they took no precautions at all. I have seem videos of it. FWIW, a group or churches here sued our governor for her stay at home orders preventing them from meeting. I know not all churches are like this and that is exactly my point.