Travel/flight risks in the age of Covid?

[mikala]

We are trying to decide whether to cancel an upcoming vacation and I wanted to get a BBB wisdom reality check. I'm swinging wildly between let's go and heck no, we shouldn't even consider going.

How much risk do you consider flying to be right now? The vacation has a flight with one stop, unfortunately no direct flights. Unfortunately driving isn't really a viable option. I'm pretty comfortable assessing the risk once we get there, would plan for minimal public interactions. I'm mostly trying to assess the risk of actually getting sick on the way there or on the flight back.

What factors would you consider?

We'd be flying United so I'm especially interested in experiences with them. I know they have a mask requirement policy but I'm not sure how full their flights are right now.

Thanks!!

[Liziz]

Such a tough decision! We are absolutely not flying on airplanes right now. It's just too much out of control, too many variables that you can't plan for. However, I do recognize that choosing not to buy a plane ticket is very different from deciding whether or not to cancel existing flights. We did cancel flights earlier this summer, though -- but it was an easier decision as the location we were traveling would not have been easy to stay isolated.

Anecdotally, I do have a lot of military friends who have had to move this summer, and they've all done international flights with no bad effects (though tbh, I'd feel way safer on a flight originating from Europe than from a domestic US flight right now....). I've heard though that mask policy enforcement varies a lot just based on the flight crew, and most planes are pretty full.

Good luck -- I know it's a really hard decision!

[ang79]

I will not be stepping foot on a plane or in an airport for a long while! DH may need to fly to CO in the fall for work and even that is making me antsy thinking about it. I think it probably depends a lot the airline, the crew, and the location you are leaving from/going to (How large are the airports you will be in? Are they in states where people are not cooperating with wearing masks or where cases are exploding?) We canceled our trip to Jamaica in early summer (it ended up that Jamaica had closed borders still at that point anyways). We changed our reservation to next summer so as not to lose our deposit, fingers crossed the situation will be much better by then! We are planning a beach trip 3 hrs. away at the beginning of August but we can drive straight through with no or minimal stops and I won't hesitate to cancel it if cases start rising in NJ where we are going. I tend to be on the more cautious side though. Good luck with your decision!

[SnuggleBuggles]

Planes are outside of my comfort zone at the moment.

[Moneypenny]

We are also supposed to travel this summer. I have little fear for when we get to our destination as we can social distance easily, but I'm nervous about flying. I did ask a critical care pulmonologist I know about this and he said he considers flying right now (as long as you mask up in the airport and on the plane) is actually much safer than working in an office or eating in a restaurant, and he wouldn't hesitate to fly or put his family on a plane, but I still don't feel good about it.

[jgenie]

We canceled a summer full of flights. We won’t be flying for pleasure for quite some time.

[Jeanne]

We have to fly in August to deliver our oldest to her first year of college. I'm dreading it. I would not be flying if I didn't have to.

[georgiegirl]

Flying is outside of my comfort zone too. United is one of the airlines that fills the middle seat. I know Delta has committed to leaving the middle seat open, but not United (and American). We switched out summer plans and we really 11 hours and renting a house (Airbnb) bear a national park.

[dogmom]

Well, if I left my region I would need to quarantine for 2 weeks whenI got back and I don’t think my work would be that happy. So not an option for me.

I think we have to consider although quarantine is 14 (or 10) days the average time of symptom onset is 3-5. Do you want to be stuck on a plane with a virulent spreader and get sick on your trip? In a hospital there? It would have to be “I could die after this and be happy” trip for it to be worth it for me. But I am so jaded right now by people. I’m outside at lunch at work and staring at all these women with perfectly polished fingers and toes and thinking “your mani/pedi is worth me going back into Covid surge mode?” These aren’t people ar home that this is the one time they risk something. They work at a freaking hospital. I feel like everyone has gone stark raving mad.

[essnce629]

I wouldn't be comfortable flying right now either, especially since so many airlines are keeping flights full which means no distancing at all.

[PunkyBoo]

I would absolutely not go near an airport or airplane right now. However one of my coworkers (fortunately we are telecommuting so I am not in her daily physical presence anymore) just went on vacation with her family to Mexico, on a cross-country flight, with changing planes. I love and respect this woman, but I frankly think she's nuts for going on this trip. I'm praying she doesn't actually get sick. Our work requires her to be on 2 week quarantine (not going into the office, theoretically staying home), but that's no big deal since we're telecommuting. She said she felt very safe with the safety and sanitary conditions they experienced.

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[Jeanne]

Well, if I left my region I would need to quarantine for 2 weeks whenI got back and I don’t think my work would be that happy. So not an option for me.

I think we have to consider although quarantine is 14 (or 10) days the average time of symptom onset is 3-5. Do you want to be stuck on a plane with a virulent spreader and get sick on your trip? In a hospital there? It would have to be “I could die after this and be happy” trip for it to be worth it for me. But I am so jaded right now by people. I’m outside at lunch at work and staring at all these women with perfectly polished fingers and toes and thinking “your mani/pedi is worth me going back into Covid surge mode?” These aren’t people ar home that this is the one time they risk something. They work at a freaking hospital. I feel like everyone has gone stark raving mad.

In fairness, I am one of those people with perfectly polished upper and lower digits but I never get them done. I do them myself. I think I've gotten 3 manicures in my life and never a pedicure (grosses me out). But I get your shade. There are far too many people who aren't prioritizing.

[Myira]

A friend’s family recently(before July 4th and numbers rising in some hot spots) flew to the East coast. She dwindled on whether to go ahead or cancel for some time and even emailed Erin Bromage(the prof and researcher,I know someone posted 2 good articles by him here) and in his opinion he did not consider flying as high risk as congregating in a small space. He said airplanes have the best hepa filtration systems, most airlines are mandating masks, and airports aren’t crowded. Her experience has been very positive, and she felt it involved less planning than a long drive with what hotel to stop at etc.
That said, I don’t think I’d personally feel comfortable boarding a flight right now. I know I’d drive myself crazy with all the possibilities and finally would not be able to have a good time.

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[carolinamama]

Not in our family's comfort zone and I don't think that will change for a very long time.

[SnuggleBuggles]

We have to fly in August to deliver our oldest to her first year of college. I'm dreading it. I would not be flying if I didn't have to.

Do you think move in will actually happen? Are her classes happening in person? Ds1's school has switched almost every class over to be online only and they pushed back the housing info yet another week (no dorm assignment, roommate info...). We're just hanging out here in limbo. More and more people are cancelling their housing contracts and choosing to either defer or study from home.

[zukeypur]

I’m not even driving past the point that might require a stop at a gas station, so definitely no planes.

[Jeanne]

Do you think move in will actually happen? Are her classes happening in person? Ds1's school has switched almost every class over to be online only and they pushed back the housing info yet another week (no dorm assignment, roommate info...). We're just hanging out here in limbo. More and more people are cancelling their housing contracts and choosing to either defer or study from home.

So far, yes. All of her classes will be hybrid with limited bodies in the classroom. Details continue to come in from each professor daily. A two day class will be 4 days now. 20 kids in the room, 20 online on alternate days. Weather and material permitting, some lectures may be held outside. She's an earth science major so there's great enthusiasm for that.

Moving her into the dorm is not going to be fun. Each kid is given a 30 minute max window to get everything into the room. Only 1 or 2 parents are allowed to help and once it's all in, parents have to leave immediately. We don't get to help her set up. If everything isn't in the room, it has to sit somewhere until there's an allotted time to get it to the room. They've already got everyone scheduled back to back over a 5 day period. Our time is on Day 2 at 8:30 am so at least we won't be waiting around all day. Good luck to us though...

She's in a pod of two rooms (2 girls per room) and a bathroom. They will be considered a "unit" so that contract tracing can be established. There will be an isolation dorm/s for anyone feeling sick or undergoing testing/testing positive. They have a testing center. There are a million rules as can be expected with this around dining, gathering, events, etc...

We are not going to defer. We don't see the point in that. She can't travel during this and we see absolutely zero value in having her defer to work a low paying part time job. We did look into keeping her home to take classes online for a year or two with our CC but the funding she gets is based on 4 year attendance. If she doesn't go for all 4 years, we loose that and then risk not having all classes transfer. Ends up costing us more in the long run in addition to the other big issues like zero enthusiasm for it, stuck at home waiting to start life, etc... She's already lost everything that goes with Senior year. Sucky in an understatement.

The school will send them home if it gets too bad as they did early last March. In doing it this way, should they send all the kids home, she will end up back here to take those classes online and still retain her funding until it's safe to return to school. We are nervous of course but we will try it and see what comes of it since we have to live with this virus for God knows how long.

[gatorsmom]

Do you think move in will actually happen? Are her classes happening in person? Ds1's school has switched almost every class over to be online only and they pushed back the housing info yet another week (no dorm assignment, roommate info...). We're just hanging out here in limbo. More and more people are cancelling their housing contracts and choosing to either defer or study from home.

After looking at the numbers of cases of COVID19 going up in this country and the number of deaths going down, I’m gonna take a wild guess that the colleges in the fall become a breeding ground for COVID19. Probably kids will get it and not even know it. If they can get it, stay in their rooms, heal and become immune (without overwhelming local hospitals), would that be terrible? It might affect them very little since young people (without comorbidities) aren’t suffering nearly as much as the the elderly, according to the studies I’ve read. Just thinking out loud.

[gatorsmom]

Oops, dbl post

[essnce629]

After looking at the numbers of cases of COVID19 going up in this country and the number of deaths going down, I’m gonna take a wild guess that the colleges in the fall become a breeding ground for COVID19. Probably kids will get it and not even know it. If they can get it, stay in their rooms, heal and become immune (without overwhelming local hospitals), would that be terrible? It might affect them very little since young people (without comorbidities) aren’t suffering nearly as much as the the elderly, according to the studies I’ve read. Just thinking out loud.

Well the studies are showing that antibodies are only lasting for 2-3 months so that's not really "immune." My DH's friend back home was extremely sick for 3 weeks with Covid back when the cases were skyrocketing in NY and he was devastated by this news.

[hillview]

we recently flew as DH needed a hip replacement. The plane was ok lots of masks and no one in the middle seat (JetBlue). That said we would not have done that for a vacation only for his medical requirement.

[dogmom]

After looking at the numbers of cases of COVID19 going up in this country and the number of deaths going down, I’m gonna take a wild guess that the colleges in the fall become a breeding ground for COVID19. Probably kids will get it and not even know it. If they can get it, stay in their rooms, heal and become immune (without overwhelming local hospitals), would that be terrible? It might affect them very little since young people (without comorbidities) aren’t suffering nearly as much as the the elderly, according to the studies I’ve read. Just thinking out loud.

My BF 21 yo daughter just got Covid. She’s had it for 10 days and my friends exhausted. She’s trying to keep her quarantined. Back sure she has pain meds, hydration, checking in her, checking her oxygen levels. Had to take her to the ED for an X-ray because no urgent care center would do it. The WP just has an article about student health services at colleges. They can’t handle the normal stuff at at all of them well enough a pandemic. Who’s going to make sure a dorm full of kids stay hydrated, fed and breathing? What will a parent do when their kid says they don’t feel well then doesn’t answer their phone? Glad I don’t have to deal with this.

[Jeanne]

After looking at the numbers of cases of COVID19 going up in this country and the number of deaths going down, I’m gonna take a wild guess that the colleges in the fall become a breeding ground for COVID19. Probably kids will get it and not even know it. If they can get it, stay in their rooms, heal and become immune (without overwhelming local hospitals), would that be terrible? It might affect them very little since young people (without comorbidities) aren’t suffering nearly as much as the the elderly, according to the studies I’ve read. Just thinking out loud.

Our DD's college has been planning this return since May. We're on weekly update calls and have the opportunity to ask questions, make suggestions, contribute ideas, etc... But as careful as they plan to be, exposure can't be eliminated. With all the protocols they have in place, they hope to reduce spread. The kids can't be anywhere other their room without a mask. They can't walk freely into buildings as before. Nothing in large numbers. A complete reduction in the overall campus life experience. It's so sad.

This gives me a little hope that the spread will be kept down on campus.

Boston hospital worker study shows masks are effective in preventing spread of coronavirus
https://www.bostonglobe.com/2020/07/15/metro/boston-hospital-worker-study-masks-work-fight-against-coronavirus/

[gatorsmom]

Well the studies are showing that antibodies are only lasting for 2-3 months so that's not really "immune." My DH's friend back home was extremely sick for 3 weeks with Covid back when the cases were skyrocketing in NY and he was devastated by this news.

Oh, I hadn’t read that. Good point. Well, I still suspect college kids will get sick and despite what they are told, some will want to stay on campus and just power through it. Besides, once they get sick, how will they get home, especially if their college is far from home? I think we are going to learn a lot about this disease from what happens on college campuses this fall.

I know this has been a terrible time for all of us and our country but I can’t help think how much more crazy the country would have gone if this disease targeted children. I know I’d turn into a raving paranoid lunatic and my kids wouldn’t have left the house. Ever. Losing my children scares me a lot more than losing my parents ever did. It shouldn’t matter, I know- death is death and is horrible. But I just know my mommy instincts would have come out to a full roar. And I suspect other parents would be been much more vocal/terrified too.

[Jeanne]

My BF 21 yo daughter just got Covid. She’s had it for 10 days and my friends exhausted. She’s trying to keep her quarantined. Back sure she has pain meds, hydration, checking in her, checking her oxygen levels. Had to take her to the ED for an X-ray because no urgent care center would do it. The WP just has an article about student health services at colleges. They can’t handle the normal stuff at at all of them well enough a pandemic. Who’s going to make sure a dorm full of kids stay hydrated, fed and breathing? What will a parent do when their kid says they don’t feel well then doesn’t answer their phone? Glad I don’t have to deal with this.

This isn't the case for all colleges. If the college my DD was attending had no plan for how to quarantine, she wouldn't be going. That building will have a nurse/s and anyone isolated will be checked on multiple times per day. But that will only be the case for mild cases. Your friend's daughter sounds as it her case was moderately severe. We have been told that more severe cases will be sent to the hospital.

[gymnbomb]

Flying (unless a serious family emergency, then one adult only) is a big no for our family, at least through the end of this year.


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[JustMe]

I also would not fly. I would cancel while I still can and spend money on a driveable destination that you feel is relatively safe (that looks different for different people).

[dogmom]

This isn't the case for all colleges. If the college my DD was attending had no plan for how to quarantine, she wouldn't be going. That building will have a nurse/s and anyone isolated will be checked on multiple times per day. But that will only be the case for mild cases. Your friend's daughter sounds as it her case was moderately severe. We have been told that more severe cases will be sent to the hospital.

As a nurse working with Covid I can absolutely tell you my friend’s daughter case is mild to moderate. I realize I’m harping on this, but her symptoms are the ones people saying are mild cases. Her high grade fever lasted one day, her O2 saturation has never gone below 98%. Her mother knows her sat because I told her to go buy a sat monitor soon as she got symptoms. (In stock again on Amazon). She only needed to go to the hospital for the chest X-ray, which she didn’t need, but it’s hard to second guess a PCP from a thousand miles away.

And I don’t know where they are getting all these nurses from.

[melrose7]

I know I’m in the minority but I would comfortable going. DH probably has a work trip scheduled for September and I am hoping to go along since the airfare prices are cheaper. I haven’t flown in 15 years but going to the airport doesn’t frighten me.

[sf333]

I listened to Michael Osterholm’s latest podcast yesterday. He’s the director of CIDRAP (Center for Infectious Disease Research and Policy). He said that we should not be indoors in public spaces unless necessary and that distancing is extremely important. That rules out flying.

We won’t be traveling by air for a while. We had a trip planned in April and thankfully, we were given credit for tickets when we cancelled. Hopefully, we will have the opportunity to use that credit before it expires but I won’t be surprised if we don’t.

[erosenst]

As someone who used to fly weekly for work...I thought I'd be more comfortable than many/most. As at least one PP commented, the HEPA filter on planes helps a LOT.

BUT - we aren't flying. I don't like having to be at an airport - crowded inside space. I like connections less - means waiting at two. Most airlines have canceled a ton of flights and are 'grouping' the rest for connections - so if you miss yours it could be a long time til the next one. If I had to fly for some emergency (not realistic - family all within 5 hours) I would, but only then.

I also work for a very large company. Just heard basically no travel through the end of the year.

Now that I've posted all that - DD's summer plans were cancelled. Some very close friends live an hour away by plane, and 5 hours if something happens and we have to drive. She hasn't asked yet but if she does I *may* let her fly with lots of directions about staying away from the gate til right before the flight, sanitizing (which she knows to do) etc. Schools here are going back hybrid - I think this is probably less risky.

Good luck making the decision - know it's not easy.

[mikala]

Thank you for all the thoughtful comments. This is giving me a lot to think about. We've been really careful at home and while restrictive that feels easier than trying to assess risk vs benefit. I definitely wouldn't be scheduling a new flight right now but this trip was scheduled over a year ago and for a variety of reasons couldn't happen again for at least two years. I don't think we'll go but uggggghhhh, I'm not looking forward to breaking it to the kids.

[marinkitty]

Well, I flew a week ago today. On United. So I'm happy to share our experience, although it's a little unique because we have the highest status on United and that makes a big difference on things like timing and seating.

It was a direct flight (I'm not sure I would have done a connection because that adds uncertainty and more wait time) early in the day to try to avoid having people coming from other destinations who are connecting (I would not go to an airport in the south right now, for instance). We bought first class tickets (which were pretty cheap, actually) and we sat in seats 1A and 1B (I flew with DD who is 17) and boarded dead last and got off first, so no one was passing us in the aisle other than the first class flight attendant. Middle seats in economy are definitely being filled. I got an email from United two days before my flight warning me that the flight was very full and offering me a rebook on a less crowded flight for free if I wanted. They also outlined their very extensive cleaning process, so I do think that their planes are probably a safer environment than most indoor spaces right now.

At the gate, we stayed far away from everyone and we only arrived at the airport 20 minutes prior to boarding, which we are able to do at O'Hare because we have Global Services status which has a separate lobby for check-in away from everything else and we go from car to gate in about 10 minutes, including check in and TSA clearance. No line for TSA from Global lobby. TSA has shields up around the employee and you just hold up your license and lower your mask for a second so they can verify your ID. All airport employees wore masks and most were separated from the public by plexiglass shields. Not the person waving you through the metal detector, though. We saw no one without a mask on in the airport - at O'Hare it's a pretty compliant population as masks have been required at most public indoor spaces for months.

In the airport and on the flight, everyone was wearing a mask, but when they served drinks and food people obviously lowered them (not sure what happened in economy class but in first they were serving boxed food and drinks - we didn't have anything and never lowered our masks off our faces the entire flight, but others did). Lots of people in N95 masks - which surprised me. Where did they get them?

They handed out wipes to everyone who wanted one right after boarding. We had our own and had already wiped down everything - seat, tables, window area etc. before we sat down. We filled our Hydroflasks at O'Hare (they had the bottle fillers working) but ended up not even taking a sip on the plane. We stayed in our seats the whole time. We sprayed ourselves with sanitizer as soon as we exited the airport before getting in the car and then changed clothes and washed everything as soon as we got to the house.

The flight was pretty full. In first, there were 12 people and four empty seats. It's a 2 seat per side configuration so DD and I were not seated next to anyone but there was one man in the row behind us and there were two people across the aisle. Based on the lines at boarding for economy I'd guess the flight was 70-80% full, but I couldn't see them once we were on the plane to be sure.

When we landed the airport was pretty empty. National Guard took our temps and asked a few screening questions before we could exit the secure area. People were wearing masks, which was pleasantly surprising because we drove out here a month ago and you would never have known there was a pandemic (but cases have more than doubled and so now times are changing here - the governor just mandated masks a couple of days ago).

All in all, it felt fine and 7 days later we appear to be healthy, though we aren't totally in the clear yet of course. Since we arrived we have stayed away from people other than for necessary errands wearing masks. Our destination is actually having higher transmission rates than home right now, so we would be being cautious regardless. We own the house we are staying in and it was cleaned three days prior to our arrival and then left empty, so once we got here we didn't have any more concerns.

We are driving home (21 hours) with the rest of the family who are driving out next weekend and camping en route. We did that round trip back in June and this time for a number of reasons I felt like the risk/benefit analysis for DD was to fly so we did. So, for whatever it's worth hope this helps you decide.

[AngB]

I flew STL to Houston (one stop in DFW) on American and then flew back Southwest in mid June. American was not great, I felt much safer on Southwest with the middle seats empty. I did not leave my seat or eat or drink on the flight. (I did in the airport away from people.) DFW seemed pretty busy (I had to change terminals) but STL and Houston weren't bad. At that time, mask wearing was only like 50-50 in the airports which didn't impress me. It has been almost a month since back and I assume no covid. (Haven't been tested or had a reason to.) All in all, it was ok, better than I expected but not something I am eager to do again. I think without business travel and everything, airports are generally less crowded than normal and not that hard to social distance there besides the few minutes through security.

[HannaAddict]

We are trying to decide whether to cancel an upcoming vacation and I wanted to get a BBB wisdom reality check. I'm swinging wildly between let's go and heck no, we shouldn't even consider going.

How much risk do you consider flying to be right now? The vacation has a flight with one stop, unfortunately no direct flights. Unfortunately driving isn't really a viable option. I'm pretty comfortable assessing the risk once we get there, would plan for minimal public interactions. I'm mostly trying to assess the risk of actually getting sick on the way there or on the flight back.

What factors would you consider?

We'd be flying United so I'm especially interested in experiences with them. I know they have a mask requirement policy but I'm not sure how full their flights are right now.

Thanks!!

I would not fly now and no way would I fly United. There are at least two articles out there by frequent or business flyer writers and both said United is awful. If I had to fly, Delta or Alaska. United is the worst from the articles about Covid precautions and American right behind them. Delta is taking it seriously and Alaska too. But I would look at how virulent it is in the country and stay off a plane and not be on vacation. It sucks. We had several great trips planned too.


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