Dog food...grains...?

[twowhat?]

Just took new adoptee (7 years old) for his first checkup at our vet. Vet mentioned to stick with Purina Pro Plan, Science Diet, or one other major brand I can't remember and said it was because not all of the more boutique brands that are trendy now makes sure their foods contain all nutrients, including trace, that dogs need.

I think I remember someone on here saying the same thing. It does make sense. I have, with our previous dogs, gravitated to Dog Food Advisor recommended foods but also fully realize that Dog Food Advisor makes recommendations based on 1) order of ingredients, 2) lack of corn/wheat and 3) lack of grains in general. The foods are obviously not tested and "approved" by Dog Food Advisor.

Our vet also recommends against a grain-free food unless the dog has allergies that necessitates it because of the more recent dilated cardiomyopathy data. He says this data shows a correlation but we need more data to definitively attribute grain-free dog food to DCM but that at this time they don't recommend grain-free. He says in their practice they've seen a 4x higher incidence of DCM.

Anyway, so many confusing recommendations on dog foods. I do see that Science Diet makes some foods without corn/wheat and without byproducts that I can get locally like these:
https://www.hollywoodfeed.com/p/60239/science-diet-dog-food-bioactive-adult-chicken-barley
https://www.hollywoodfeed.com/p/13135/science-diet-dog-food-adult-sensitive-stomach-skin-chicken

Thoughts on dog food? We're experienced dog owners but the food thing is confusing EVERY time. Whichever food we choose, I will be supplementing with additional water and fresh cooked chicken, carrots, and sweet potatoes. Partly because our rescue is NOT food motivated and needs a lot of coaxing to eat and the scoop of fresh chicken really helps him eat his entire meal:) He would also get some raw chicken as a treat whenever we prep a whole roasting chicken for ourselves (we have always given our dogs the necks/backs and they LOVE it). He is also getting a glucosamine supplement for his arthritis and salmon oil for his coat. He MIGHT be a little itchy? He licks his paws a lot...only at night...though his skin looks fine but for that reason I think I want to at least avoid corn/wheat for now.

[MSWR0319]

Just took new adoptee (7 years old) for his first checkup at our vet. Vet mentioned to stick with Purina Pro Plan, Science Diet, or one other major brand I can't remember and said it was because not all of the more boutique brands that are trendy now makes sure their foods contain all nutrients, including trace, that dogs need.

I think I remember someone on here saying the same thing. It does make sense. I have, with our previous dogs, gravitated to Dog Food Advisor recommended foods but also fully realize that Dog Food Advisor makes recommendations based on 1) order of ingredients, 2) lack of corn/wheat and 3) lack of grains in general. The foods are obviously not tested and "approved" by Dog Food Advisor.

Our vet also recommends against a grain-free food unless the dog has allergies that necessitates it because of the more recent dilated cardiomyopathy data. He says this data shows a correlation but we need more data to definitively attribute grain-free dog food to DCM but that at this time they don't recommend grain-free. He says in their practice they've seen a 4x higher incidence of DCM.

Anyway, so many confusing recommendations on dog foods. I do see that Science Diet makes some foods without corn/wheat and without byproducts that I can get locally like these:
https://www.hollywoodfeed.com/p/60239/science-diet-dog-food-bioactive-adult-chicken-barley
https://www.hollywoodfeed.com/p/13135/science-diet-dog-food-adult-sensitive-stomach-skin-chicken

Thoughts on dog food? We're experience dog owners but the food thing is confusing EVERY time. Whichever food we choose, I will be supplementing with additional water and fresh cooked chicken, carrots, and sweet potatoes. Partly because our rescue is NOT food motivated and needs a lot of coaxing to eat and the scoop of fresh chicken really helps him eat his entire meal:) He would also get some raw chicken as a treat whenever we prep a whole roasting chicken for ourselves (we have always given our dogs the necks/backs and they LOVE it). He is also getting a glucosamine supplement for his arthritis and salmon oil for his coat. He MIGHT be a little itchy? He licks his paws a lot...only at night...though his skin looks fine but for that reason I think I want to at least avoid corn/wheat for now.

We use American Journey Salmon with grains. Our vet also recommended against the grain free foods. We were dealing with allergies and needed to avoid chicken (just a guess, no testing). This was the only food I could find that has grains but no chicken. She never had known heart issues, but did have a weird hacking noise that went away when we switched foods. It was probably allergy related but the vet said it could also be heart related. Anyway, she's been on this food for year or two and we really like it. We also did the Purina Pro Plan for sensitive stomachs and liked that but it still had a bit of chicken in it and I found this, so we just stuck with it.

[wendibird22]

Our dog was on grain free but we switch to purina pro plan sensitive stomach once vets advised against grain free. It’s not the cheapest but not the most expensive, ease to get locally and online (helpful during the pandemic shut down) and it was recommended by our vet.


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[ang79]

We have just fully transitioned our dog from a Wellness Core grain free (that she was on at foster home), to Purina adult sensitive stomach and skin (salmon and rice), several people here recommended it when I asked a few weeks ago. She does seem to itch a lot, so I wanted to try the sensitive diet to see if that helps. I also just ordered Zuke's training treats in PB and Salmon to try. She currently loves the Wellness Soft Bites that we have (also what she ate at foster home), but they are harder to find in stock locally and more expensive. Trying to cut out as much chicken/turkey as possible to see if that also affects the itching. She loves to lick her paws too, she grooms herself like a cat (licking paws, then rubbing face with wet paws). I can't see any hot spots from the itching/licking and this is our first dog so I don't know if its excessive or normal for a dog.

[doberbrat]

I'm pretty anti kibble, but if I HAD to feed one, SD is last on my list. The issue with grains isnt that dogs need it. Taurine comes from meat, not grains. The issue is that companies try to be cheap and use legumes instead which also arent needed. I'd look for something that has small fresh batches with few preservatives. If your dog has no issues with grains, then make sure you're getting them in minimal quantities. Not the 2nd, 3rd and 5th ingredient type thing.

And, I'd stick with well known brands that have been around for a while. Canidae, fromms, Accana, Instinct, Halo, Earthborn and I personally would try hard to stick to made in USA foods ..... including treats!

[AnnieW625]

We are currently feeding our dog Lotus Lamb and Turkey Liver. It is grain free, but we feed him other grains in dog biscuits and snacks. He was having a ton of skin sensitivity issues so we moved him off his prior food that was chicken based and the skin issues have subsided. He sees the vet in two weeks for his annual check up so I will ask about food again. When we initially got him he wouldn’t eat the Science Diet they gave him at the animal shelter (it could’ve just been him getting used to a new home) so we switched to the Welcome Home (owned by Lotus) brand and then recently switched to Lotus because they had a chicken free option.

With our prior dog we used Eukanuba Weight Control, Natural Balance Weight Control, and finally Kirkland Signature Natures Domain (made by Diamond Pet Foods).

With all that said I guess I need to do more research as to grain free vs. grain and what is good quality and what is not good quality. Like Doberbrat though I was under the assumption that dogs don’t need extra grains in their diet. I know for years after the dog food recalls dog food connoisseurs were against any brand that was made by a large company (Purina, Iams, Pedigree, and Science Diet come to mind), maybe the trend is starting to go back to the larger mainstream dog food companies now.


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[acmom]

Our family friend who is a vet recommended several of the larger mainstream companies (Science Diet, Iams) when we got our puppy. She isn't local and I am not buying my food through her, so I didn't feel like she was recommending those to "sell" me. I ended up going with Science Diet Large Breed (puppy, now age 1-5), which was one of her recommendations and what she said she chose for her own dogs. I wanted something that was easy to find bc we had run into supply issues with a specialty food for our last dog.

[Kindra178]

I'm pretty anti kibble, but if I HAD to feed one, SD is last on my list. The issue with grains isnt that dogs need it. Taurine comes from meat, not grains. The issue is that companies try to be cheap and use legumes instead which also arent needed. I'd look for something that has small fresh batches with few preservatives. If your dog has no issues with grains, then make sure you're getting them in minimal quantities. Not the 2nd, 3rd and 5th ingredient type thing.

And, I'd stick with well known brands that have been around for a while. Canidae, fromms, Accana, Instinct, Halo, Earthborn and I personally would try hard to stick to made in USA foods ..... including treats!

This is the old way of thinking. Everything I once believed is wrong.

Twowhat, your vet is 100% correct. Thousands upon thousands of dogs have died (needless deaths) from eating fancy grain free food, including Acana, Orijen, Fromm and Zignature. You need a company that has a certified vet nutritionist on staff (ie a vet who is also certified in nutrition). Purina and Science Diet have nutritionists on staff.

Please join the Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy group on facebook. It's run by vets and you will learn so much. You will also be bombarded with stories of active, young healthy sporting dogs who get super ill.

My dog currently eats a half canned and half kibble, including Science Diet Sensitive cans and Purina Pro Plan sensitive kibble.

Btw, the DFA guy is a dentist, he is not a vet or animal nutritionist.

Re: taurine, yes, you get taurine from meat. But any grain free dry food needs some sort of carb for binding. Beans and potatoes, mainstays in the grain free world, are thought to block the dog's ability to absorb taurine.

[ang79]

This is the old way of thinking. Everything I once believed is wrong.

Twowhat, your vet is 100% correct. Thousands upon thousands of dogs have died (needless deaths) from eating fancy grain free food, including Acana, Orijen, Fromm and Zignature. You need a company that has a certified vet nutritionist on staff (ie a vet who is also certified in nutrition). Purina and Science Diet have nutritionists on staff.

Please join the Diet-Associated Dilated Cardiomyopathy group on facebook. It's run by vets and you will learn so much. You will also be bombarded with stories of active, young healthy sporting dogs who get super ill.

My dog currently eats a half canned and half kibble, including Science Diet Sensitive cans and Purina Pro Plan sensitive kibble.

Btw, the DFA guy is a dentist, he is not a vet or animal nutritionist.

Re: taurine, yes, you get taurine from meat. But any grain free dry food needs some sort of carb for binding. Beans and potatoes, mainstays in the grain free world, are thought to block the dog's ability to absorb taurine.

Kindra, can I ask why you do a combo of wet and dry? We do that for our cats because cats normally don't like to drink much water and the extra moisture in the wet food is good for them. My dog drinks water and we add a little water to her dry kibble. Just curious if there are health benefits to eating a combo of wet and dry, or if you do it because your dog doesn't like just dry. Thanks!

[Kindra178]

Kindra, can I ask why you do a combo of wet and dry? We do that for our cats because cats normally don't like to drink much water and the extra moisture in the wet food is good for them. My dog drinks water and we add a little water to her dry kibble. Just curious if there are health benefits to eating a combo of wet and dry, or if you do it because your dog doesn't like just dry. Thanks!

My dog came to us at 8 months from the streets, where she lived for months. Her digestive system didn’t develop properly and she has an extremely sensitive stomach. For years we dealt with constant stomach issues, vet bills etc. When she switched to all canned, she became a normal weight. Even then she had She can’t tolerate all dry. Wet food is easier to digest. She even did prescription wet (science diet) for a year.

So we are now doing ok on the above combo. Purina pro plan has been so helpful.


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[ang79]

My dog came to us at 8 months from the streets, where she lived for months. Her digestive system didn’t develop properly and she has an extremely sensitive stomach. For years we dealt with constant stomach issues, vet bills etc. When she switched to all canned, she became a normal weight. Even then she had She can’t tolerate all dry. Wet food is easier to digest. She even did prescription wet (science diet) for a year.

So we are now doing ok on the above combo. Purina pro plan has been so helpful.


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Glad your doggie is doing better now! Ours was having tummy issues when we first got her, and also didn't want to eat the dry food, so we were doing some wet with the dry. But now that we've done treatment for worms (she had whip worms and hook worms, poor thing!) and she has settled into our home better, she scarfs down her dry kibble without any problems.

[DualvansMommy]

Our new rescue we adopted 6 weeks ago lived on the streets as a stray before an out of state animal control found him and brought him to local shelter. As such, we discovered he has a sensitive stomach and needs to be on a diet of mixed dry kibble (Just half a cup) and fresh Ollie dog food which is a mixture of grain and grain free meats with fresh vegetables like sweet potatoes, etc listed after main protein is listed 1st on list.

The dry food we use is Wellness brand in chicken. We often supplement his bowl of above ingredients with 2/3 C of fresh chicken breast cut up.


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[dogmom]

I’m another fan of Purina Proplan. We used to use Nutro, but the price skyrocketed when “wellness” dog foods got trendy. Proplan was what our puppy was on when we got her and kept using it and we found it good for both dogs at a price point that’s not cheap, but not horrible expensive. (Having two dogs over 60 lbs is munch more expensive than one smaller dog.). I tried to use dog food advisor, but found some of their stuff somewhat contradictory and a range of scientific support for their ratings. (Sort of like the EWG. Some of their measures seem solid, but other stuff appears to be a little overstated.) I also get turned off when I go to smaller pet stores and people with zero science background start telling me what I don’t spend on $50 for 15 lb bag of dog food I will make up in excess vet bills, then try to sell me on homeopathy. So I admit my bias. Besides when I’ve tried other more “natural” foods the dogs just don’t do as well. I can find more information and research on the Purina site, so I’m just sticking with them.

[MaiseyDog]

I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent in all the ProPlan love. I am really, completely frustrated with them right now. We have 2 labs (3 yo male and 6 yo female). We have been feeding ProPlan Sport for both since we got them (this was the food that both breeders recommended). They have both done well until about a month ago. About a month ago both started getting really itchy which had never been a problem before and the male ending up in a major allergic reaction. He was scratching so much at one point he made his gums bleed and his poor feet were licked raw. Since we had recently opened a new bag of food, I contacted ProPlan to inquire about any recent changes in manufacturing or formula and they have been nothing but shady about the whole thing. They have yet to give me a straight answer and I've been in contact with 4 different people. I really just want to know if I need to be looking elsewhere or not and they just keep apologizing and sending me coupons. We ended up changing both dogs foods just in case, but we have no idea if it was the change in food or the fact that they are now on Apoquel that is helping. I guess time will tell as the vet wanted to do the med for a month and then try them off of it. I'm just really frustrated with Purina's lack of transparency. I started this really being happy with their product, but they've pissed me off to the point that if we do find out it wasn't the food causing the issue, I don't think I could ever go back to them. Anyway, just my two cents.

[twowhat?]

So I ended up buying Science Diet sensitive skin & stomach, partly because it's the only one of the "big 3" brands that our local store carries - most of the brands this store carries is in the "old way of thinking grain-free food" camp so it's interesting to me that they carry the SD line...

Anyway, no issues with introducing the food. Still have to add fresh chicken on top for our reluctant eater. We were cooking food for our old dog in her last months so I guess I will still be cooking food for this "new" middle-aged dog :)

Now to find a treat that our non-food-motivated new rescue will actually get excited about that's not fresh chicken, LOL!

[hellokitty]

We have two dogs, one that is very sensitive to grains. When he was given to us, he was on a pretty high grain diet that resulted in out of this world farting (like every 10 seconds he'd fart) and rashes.

Our dog was already on Taste of the Wild, which helped, but then we switched to Earthborn Meadow Feast and both dogs have done really well with it. He still farts (frenchie), but like 90% less compared to before and our other dog does well on this food too. The vet has been impressed by how healthy they look and how shiny their coats are. We've tried some of the other Earthborn line too (I think lamb?) and have been happy with it.

[AngB]

I'm going to be the lone voice of dissent in all the ProPlan love. I am really, completely frustrated with them right now. We have 2 labs (3 yo male and 6 yo female). We have been feeding ProPlan Sport for both since we got them (this was the food that both breeders recommended). They have both done well until about a month ago. About a month ago both started getting really itchy which had never been a problem before and the male ending up in a major allergic reaction. He was scratching so much at one point he made his gums bleed and his poor feet were licked raw. Since we had recently opened a new bag of food, I contacted ProPlan to inquire about any recent changes in manufacturing or formula and they have been nothing but shady about the whole thing. They have yet to give me a straight answer and I've been in contact with 4 different people. I really just want to know if I need to be looking elsewhere or not and they just keep apologizing and sending me coupons. We ended up changing both dogs foods just in case, but we have no idea if it was the change in food or the fact that they are now on Apoquel that is helping. I guess time will tell as the vet wanted to do the med for a month and then try them off of it. I'm just really frustrated with Purina's lack of transparency. I started this really being happy with their product, but they've pissed me off to the point that if we do find out it wasn't the food causing the issue, I don't think I could ever go back to them. Anyway, just my two cents.

I just saw this but our puppy came to us from breeder on Pro Plan sport and also seemed to itch a lot even though he didn't have fleas and was on a preventative. I've been weaning him off of it over the last few weeks (slowly because I wanted to use up the smallest bag we had bought), and now that he's off it entirely he does seem to itch less. Could be a coincidence, IDK. He's on Chicken Soup for large breed puppy now.

[SASM]

Our vet is also against grain-free. They recommended Science Diet, Purina ProPlan and Royal Canin. We just changed our 10yo to Science Diet 7+ - she transitioned fine. The cheapest that I have found is Pet Supplies Plus. If you have one in your area, it's cheaper than Chewy and Amazon, even with subscription. I order it online and they bring it out to my car.