Question for engineers or those with engineering majors

[mmsmom]

DS is in 8th grade and for now wants to go into engineering. I absolutely hate that we have to make decisions about this now but I also don’t want him to be stuck later because we didn’t plan correctly.

The main question is will he need to take Calculus his senior year in order to get into a top engineering school or will pre-Calculus be sufficient? I’ve read some message boards and I will be talking to college guidance at his school but I’d also like real life information.

The issue is his private school segments Algebra... there’s Algebra A and Algebra B and Algebra 1. If you qualify by testing and grades then you take Algebra 1 and are on the path to take Calculus Sr year. If not then you take Algebra A one year then Algebra B the next year and are on the path to take pre-Calc senior year. DS qualified with testing and grades to be on Calculus path originally, but struggled with math last year and needed to change classes mid year.

There are options to change path which include taking a class in summer school or taking 2 maths one year. We had planned to do the summer school option but just found out it is in July instead of June as I thought and made all of our summer plans around.

So before I rearrange everything I will be talking to the college counselors at his school but again would love to hear from engineers or those with knowledge about opinions.

A quick search last night led me to a message board with most saying Calculus was not required but there was a question of it may not be a requirement but will he get in without it. There was also not a distinction between Calc and preCalc.

[SnuggleBuggles]

Mine didn’t look at “highly selective” schools so my answer could be different if you’re pushing your kid to MIT or not. If you’re not, I don’t think it’s required. All of them had to take calc once in college. There were a few different tracks but those were based on how you did on how you do on their placement test upon admission. Though his current university offers AP credit for that first calc class if you score a 4 or 5. I think mine is glad to have re-taken calc in college because he took it junior year and was really rusty!
I absolutely wouldn’t make a huge effort for the possible college major of an 8th grader. Too many what ifs. Things will work out. If, when he’s a junior and really has a clearer idea, he can find something to take (online...) in the summer between junior and senior year of really needed.


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[belovedgandp]

From more than a few years ago, I have an engineering degree. I also now have a HS junior looking at applying to schools for engineering.

Yes, a strong math background is needed, but I would not stress on the difference between taking calc or pre-calc prior to starting school. Almost all the engineering schools have extremely scripted coursework and will require or at least highly encourage every freshman to take the university's calculus as a freshman regardless of course taken in high school.

DS1 is currently in Calc 1. He will take the AP exam for this and is getting credit through the local community college. Same thing for Calc 2 next year. I think he will appreciate having a stronger background his freshman year in college. But unless he completely changes majors, the plan would be for him to take Calc 1 and 2 as a freshman.

[klwa]

Hmm. Hopefully there are those with kids in the programs now who can help more than I can. I'm an engineer who went to NCSU in the mid 90s. At that time, it was highly encouraged that you have calculus but not required, although we were all still required to take university calc 1. My BIL is 3 years younger than me and did not have calculus in high school. The only real issue with him due to that was that he entered the university in a general college spot rather than in the engineering college. I think it took him an extra semester to get through everything in the end.

[amyx4]

I've had a recent experience. One of mine went to the local StateU which has a policy that you will not be accepted into the Engineering dept. if you did not take high school Calculus. The "unwritten" policy during orientation and class selection is that even if you had Calculus in high school it is strongly suggested that you take Calculus I as a freshmen with all the other freshmen.

A friend's son went to the other StateU (across the state). He did not take calculus during high school. He was accepted into StateU but not into the Engineering program. I think he was on "freshman probation" or some other such word in the Engineering department. In reality, he took almost all the same classes as the other freshmen in the Engineering dept. The exception was that his Calculus I class was going to take the whole year, not two semesters. It also had a number of other services...tutoring, extra TAs available...etc. (I'm unclear if he would need to eventually need to take summer classes to graduate in four years.)

A friend of my ds wanted to apply to one of the private colleges in the Northeast that is well know for it's Engineering dept but not an Ivy league. The private school required calculus in high school to be admitted to that college. He had changed high schools so his math sequence was "off". So, the summer before his Senior year of high school he enrolled in the Trig/PreCalc class at the local community college. His high school then allowed him to take calculus during Senior year. He got into to that private college and like all the other freshmen took Calculus I in the fall.

[ett]

Hmm. Hopefully there are those with kids in the programs now who can help more than I can. I'm an engineer who went to NCSU in the mid 90s. At that time, it was highly encouraged that you have calculus but not required, although we were all still required to take university calc 1.

Yes, some of the schools will say calculus is not required but highly recommended. I do suggest to the OP to talk to the school counselor and see what they suggest. Is it better to take the path that reaches pre-calc and do well or take the path that reaches calc but with potentially lower grades. I would also suggest talking to his math teachers as they should have a better understanding of his math abilities and how he would do in each path.

It is difficult making these decisions for an 8th grader. (DS2 is in 8th grade too.) So many things can change in the next 4 years.

[essnce629]

I would think that calculus would be "highly recommended" for any engineering major.

BUT you don't have to stress unnecessarily now. Lots of kids take math classes over the summer in high school to advance further. My best friend has a 9th grader and she's having her take geometry over the summer which will put her on track to take calculus by senior year.

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[3isEnough]

I'm in CA and am in the midst of college admissions with DS1. To get into a UC as an engineering major Calc isn't "required", but I believe acceptance as an engineering major to a UC is a serious longshot if you haven't taken it...I'd almost say impossible. DS1 skipped AP Calc AB and took AP Calc BC as a junior. He's taking AP Stats now as a senior. Our college counselor suggested he take Multivariable Calc over the summer at a local JC between junior and senior year but my DS1 declined and we didn't push it. Engineering admissions at UCs is insanely competitive so I don't see a student getting accepted without at least 1 year of Calc completed in high school. I know you didn't indicate your son wants to attend a UC so this may all be irrelevant, but I wanted to add it as a data point.

Actually, if you have any particular schools in mind, you might check out the forums on College Confidential for the stats of kids who are admitted to those schools to get a sense of what classes they took. I agree with others that you don't have to stress unnecessarily now, but it sounds like you're trying to think ahead and I think the CC forums could be a good source of info.

[hbridge]

I just reread your original post...

I was an engineer in my "previous life" and a middle school math teacher more recently... The most important thing is that he gets a good foundation NOW. Understanding the earlier concepts is critical, the rest will come. If he is "struggling" some now, don't push him into a more advanced math class, the material is too important. He can always add math classes and get calculus. Since he will need to take it in college anyway for engineering, the more important piece is understanding!

[Globetrotter]

I would say it depends what you’re aiming for. For sure I know that UCs and other selective engineering schools pretty much require calculus. If they say recommended, that means required for most of us, given the competition.
However, Since he struggled with math recently, I would hesitate to push it now. Just make sure there is a way to catch up later on and get back on track to take calculus by senior year if he’s still interested in engineering. Maybe he can catch up over the summer after sophomore year? Make sure this is allowed because our school does not allow students to jump ahead that way.

[JBaxter]

Just a side note my sister is an ER manager and says 2 of her best ER docs have engineering undergrads. I'd say yes for calculus my 11th grader is taking AP calc AB

[PunkyBoo]

I was an engineering major- 3 years of calculus were required. I had taken AP calc in HS and got the credit for that, so had to do 2 more. I LOVED calculus in high school, that's what made me consider engineering in the first place. But calculus in college was SO hard. I don't know how it would play into admissions now, but I'd encourage taking calc in HS to get the foundations of it. I took one of the years of calc in summer school between my freshman and soph years of college to get ahead, but my DH (who I met in that class) took it to catch up (he was a year ahead of me in college).

A lot can change between 8th and 11th grade- in 8th my DS1 wanted to be a video game designer and now he is taking steps towards his plan to become a doctor. When I was in 8th I wanted to be a writer, but by senior year in HS I decided to go for engineering. For now, let him dream and do his best, and if he decides later that yes, engineering is his thing, there will be opportunities to catch up. I do warn, however, that not doing well in math will make engineering extremely challenging. Even the non-math classes are very much math-heavy and math-reliant.

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[infocrazy]

DS1 is currently in Calc 1. He will take the AP exam for this and is getting credit through the local community college. Same thing for Calc 2 next year. I think he will appreciate having a stronger background his freshman year in college. But unless he completely changes majors, the plan would be for him to take Calc 1 and 2 as a freshman.

I agree. FWIW maaaaaany years ago I took AP Calc in HS and tested out of Calc 1. However when I got to Calc 2 1st Semester, there was clearly material not covered in my AP class. Definitely made my first semester a big struggle since I had to play catch up and math in general is so foundational... My opinion is not a bad idea to take the class in college if needed as a base for your major. I never missed the AP History class I tested out of but if it were my kid I'd have them just take the Calc 1. To each their own though...

[scrooks]

I have an engineering degree from a large state university (I earned many moons ago). I agree with others, I believe calc wasn’t required but strongly recommended. I believe it may not have been possible to direct enroll into the engineering college without calc. You would have had to enter through the general college and apply later. Fwiw I took Pre calc my junior year and AP calc bc my senior year. I tested out of calc 1 but ended up taking it anyway because of a program I entered (which I was glad about).

[mmsmom]

Thanks so much all! This is exactly the information I needed. It sounds like if he wants to stick with engineering then he needs to be on a path to get to Calc senior year. The question is if pre Calc will have the same credentials as Calc and I will get clarification from college counselor about that. It is difficult because his interest could change tomorrow but I just don’t want to get to Jr year and have college options eliminated because he has not taken the right math courses. I also don’t want to push him into more than he can handle.

I took AP Calc as a senior and went to a major engineering school but did not major in engineering. I did not take the AP exam but placed into advanced Calc in college which was easy and got credit for 2 other math classes I placed out of. It’s a different world now.

It also seems that regardless of what you take in high school, engineering majors take Calculus freshman year.

[♥ms.pacman♥]

if you did not take high school Calculus. The "unwritten" policy during orientation and class selection is that even if you had Calculus in high school it is strongly suggested that you take Calculus I as a freshmen with all the other freshmen.

:yeahthat: while i dont' have recent experience, i would agree with this. Both DH & I have engineering degrees. In both of our undergrad schools, pretty much everyone has taken Calculus in high school; HOWEVER the vast majority i knew retook it in college, even if they had AP credit, mainly because everyone knows college classes are way harder.

in my case, i was one of the rare cases that didn't take calculus in high school - not because i didn't want to, but bc i went to really small private middle school that didn't offer advanced math. so when i got to high school, had to start with Algebra I freshman year, and there was no option for me to take Geometry at the same time. i was bummed to find out so many had already taken it, and there was no way i could take Calc in high school. Also - i had immigrant parents who had no idea how the school system worked here and weren't aware of the requirements. while i think i was at a disavantage for this, i still managed to do really well in Calculus in college and in college in general (better than most of my classmates who had taken Calculus in high school). i was a total nerd in college though. lol

eta: just saw your latest post..i would say yes, most engineering majors take Calculus 1A and 1B in freshman year. even though those that have already taken Calculus in high school and AP'ed out of it. taking the AP class i'm sure helps with being prepared for it, especially for first year in college where everything is overwhelming and new. i think a good number of folks who use AP credits to actually skip calculus are the pre-med students who mainly took the AP class to get out of that requirement. at my undergrad, the pre-meds took a different form of calculus that wasn't as intense and many premeds were able to skip the requirement that way.