Kids vs MIL (update in #23)

[Twoboos]

Looking for some advice. My teen DDs are very aware of social justice issues, and have very firm opinions about them. MIL is in her late 70s and is just plain racist about certain things, and has literally said she will never change. Let's just say their views are at odds, and it usually leads to very intense debate which MIL believes is disrespectful bc DDs are "talking back" to her (which is obviously due to bad parenting). I have tried to explain just letting things go to maintain peace but DDs do not see why they should be silenced.

We are going to spend a week with (fully vaxed) MIL and I am dreading the brawls. DDs can't seem to keep their mouths shut lol. Any advice on how to present this to DDs to make this week tolerable for everyone. I get that her views go against everything DDs believe but sometimes you need to walk away, and they won't. I've tried to ask what's more important - being right or a relationship with their grandma and they seem to think it's being right, even though MIL will never think they're right. :shake:

(I really need help with managing this ongoing issue not discussing whether we should be spending a week with MIL, so please focus on that. Thanks!!)

[Liziz]

Oh geez, that is a tough one! First and foremost, congratulations for raising such socially aware, confident young women who are comfortable speaking up when they recognize something is wrong or inappropriate. They are good for society and for our world!

I would really struggle to tell my DDs to stop or not call out racist and inappropriate comments, tbh. I think they're in the right, and I get really frustrated when old people think that "respect" equals allowing them to say things that are in and of themselves disrespectful. The best thing I can think of is to coach your DDs in how to avoid topics of tension and disagreement. Are there things they all enjoy that they can focus on and avoid those topics? Maybe if you and your DDs are proactively bringing up non-hot topics, the hot topics are less likely to come up. It could be a time for your DH to talk to his mom as well and just say "hey - these topics are off limits this week". I would focus less on "don't respond" and more on making sure they have ways to articulate their views that are respectful -- saying "wow, that's a really unfair generalization to make, here's why I think that" is IMO totally okay, saying "you're an idiot and a horrible person!" is of course not acceptable and disrespectful, regardless of who it is said to. It still may not stop the disagreements if MIL is expecting pure obedience to whatever she says, but at least you can be comfortable that your DDs are being respectful. I'd also coach my DDs to do more walking away instead of debating -- i.e. - it's fine to call out the inappropriate/racist comment, but them remove yourself from the conversation rather than continuing. Hopefully that would allow them to feel they were able to express their views while also avoid the huge brawls.

Or, honestly, maybe just bring a good audiobook and plug in your earbuds every time a brawl ensues so you don't have to listen to it. I think it's important and wonderful for children to have relationships with their grandparents, but if the grandparent is clearly acting in an inappropriate and disrespectful way herself and the child is forced to just deal with it, I don't think that's really a good building block for a great relationship anyways.

[dogmom]

That’s a tough one. Since they’re teens and clearly can advocate for themselves I would ASK them what they plan to do. “So, I know Grandma has racist* views, and that you guys argue about it. What’s your plan for staying with her for a week?” Listen, ask a lot of open ended questions. Make sure you ask how you can support them. I don’t think you should dictate their behavior, and it doesn’t sound like you want to. Ask how you can make them feel safe. Remember, this is just some spirited discussion about them trying to convince grandma. They are realizing for whatever reason their beloved Grandma would rather hold onto hateful ways of thinking than love & support them. (Yes, I know it’s not that simple. But that is exactly how they can see it.). Also, this is their father’s mother. He needs to be involved with this. I think if you approach them as oppose them to construct a plan, as try to manage them, it will go better. I’m sure there plan won’t be very deep and will go off the rails. But like school project, make some suggestions and set some parameters. I do think you can say something like, “I don’t want to eat every meal turning into an argument. So maybe rules about dinner?” You can teach them some phrases about how to deal with it if MIL tries to provoke them. (If this is something she does.). You and your husband also need to talk ahead of time so you are both on the same page before hand.
Please let us know how it goes! I’m sure a lot of people are in the same boat.

*please don’t shy away from using other words. I don’t think you do because you put it in your post.

[georgiegirl]

That’s a tough one. Since their teens and clearly can advocate for themselves I would ASK them what they plan to do. “So, I know Grandma has racist* views, and that you guys argue about it. What’s your plan for staying with her for a week?” Listen, ask a lot of open ended questions. Make sure you ask how you can support them. I don’t think you should dictate their behavior, and it doesn’t sound like you want to. Ask how you can make them feel safe. Remember, this is just some spirited discussion about them trying to convince grandma. They are realizing for whatever reason their beloved Grandma would rather hold onto hateful ways of thinking than love & support them. (Yes, I know it’s not that simple. But that is exactly how they can see it.). Also, this is their father’s mother. He needs to be involved with this. I think if you approach them as oppose them to construct a plan, as try to manage them, it will go better. I’m sure there plan won’t be very deep and will go off the rails. But like school project, make some suggestions and set some parameters. I do think you can say something like, “I don’t want to eat every meal turning into an argument. So maybe rules about dinner?” You can teach them some phrases about how to deal with it if MIL tries to provoke them. (If this is something she does.). You and your husband also need to talk ahead of time so you are both on the same page before hand.
Please let us know how it goes! I’m sure a lot of people are in the same boat.

*please don’t shy away from using other words. I don’t think you do because you put it in your post.

I totally agree with this approach. My DD is almost 15, and she’s very socially aware and not afraid to speak her mind to anyone. I’m sure she’d call out her grandparents if they had racist views too. Definitely be upfront with them and acknowledge that you agree that grandma has racist views, empathize that it must be hard to listen to her say things that are so upsetting, and tell them that you are proud of them for being so passionate and vocal. And then tell them they aren’t going to change grandma’s mind and you’d appreciate if they didn’t engage with her frequently when she says racist stuff. Maybe you can have a code word or phrase that you all can share that means “yep, grandma is saying racist crap again and it’s so hard to not say anything.” Maybe offer them a reward for biting their tongues.


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[gatorsmom]

What about telling your girls to feel sorry for their grandmother? She’s of a different time an different era and she has had experiences that shaped her viewpoint. It’s sad that she feels that way about entire races of people she doesn’t even know. Old people need love and support because getting older is hard (it hurts!). Also, it’s confusing and hard knowing you are losing control over your health and your ability to improve your life and affect change. Maybe if you help them see things from their grandmothers’ perspective, they will be more empathetic.

[carolinamama]

You have gotten great responses so far and I agree with helping your daughters form a plan ahead of the visit. As I'm understanding it, your MIL is coming to visit in your home, your daughters' home, so I'm answering from that perspective. If the discussion does go off the rails and adults (preferably your DH) need to step in, it's not wrong for you to say something along the lines of "in our home, we don't speak about other human beings like that or we don't say xxx about people". You won't change her way of thinking, you aren't even trying, but you may need to draw some boundaries. It shows support for your girls, their concern for social justice and respectfully lets MIL know she needs to back off. Supporting your daughters in their home feels most important and IMO, it's not their responsibility to listen to racist talk in their own environment. No matter her age or relationship, MIL is the one speaking inappropriately, not your daughters from what you've written.

Your daughters sound amazing and I hope my kids speak up respectfully should they be in the same situation.

[MaiseyDog]

DD1 is very socially aware and has no problem standing her ground with anyone. We have had lots of discussions about when is the right time and place for confrontation. My take is that, in general, you can't go around bowing up on everyone who says stupid stuff or things you don't agree with. You have to evaluate the situation and decide if its the right time. Maybe it would be better to discuss how to not engage, how to change the subject. Not that she can't call out a racist comment, but everything doesn't have to devolve into a confrontation. She can say "Grandma, that's racist and I don't want to talk about that" and then disconnect and change the subject. It's not about ignoring the racist stuff, but choosing to not engage because the outcome will not be positive. Grandma is unlikely to change her mind and it's only going to hurt the relationship and make those around the situation uncomfortable.

[bisous]

All I can say is that I'm 45 and have good social skills and this is something that I am struggling with. How to speak out on things I find morally reprehensible but also be nuanced, subtle, charitable, and respectful. So this is a really hard thing. I appreciate the responses that you've received so far.

[niccig]

So grandma can say whatever she wants and won’t change, but the girls need to bite their tongues and not say anything?? Ideally DH, her son, should shut grandma down with “we don’t talk about people like that in this house mom”, and then change the topic. Or you do it if DH isn’t there. Unless she has dementia, grandma can bite her tongue. She’ll keep saying it though unless she’s told not to and it’s enforced.

I believe as parents it’s our job to shut down the mean nasty comments coming from family to protect our kids. They’ll see you shut it down and not engaging with her.


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[Kestrel]

I wanted to mention - make sure your DDs have their bedroom space as private - no MIL. If they need to walk away from a "discussion", they need to feel like they have a place to go, and that MIL won't follow and confront them there. It's DDs home, MIL is the guest, and should be acting that way. Tell MIL that DDs are growing up and their space is private.

Closed doors get knocked on, you know?

Keep supporting your girls.

[Green_Tea]

So grandma can say whatever she wants and won’t change, but the girls need to bite their tongues and not say anything?? Ideally DH, her son, should shut grandma down with “we don’t talk about people like that in this house mom”, and then change the topic. Or you do it if DH isn’t there. Unless she has dementia, grandma can bite her tongue. She’ll keep saying it though unless she’s told not to and it’s enforced.

I believe as parents it’s our job to shut down the mean nasty comments coming from family to protect our kids. They’ll see you shut it down and not engaging with her.


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YES TO THIS. Your MIL is wrong. Being old isn’t an excuse for being racist. Unless she has dementia, I would not encourage your DDs to listen to racist comments and tolerate them. I also agree that your husband needs to shut his mom down and let her know that your entire family finds her rhetoric offensive.

[SnuggleBuggles]

YES TO THIS. Your MIL is wrong. Being old isn’t an excuse for being racist. Unless she has dementia, I would not encourage your DDs to listen to racist comments and tolerate them. I also agree that your husband needs to shut his mom down and let her know that your entire family finds her rhetoric offensive.

[emoji817] agree.


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[Tenasparkl]

YES TO THIS. Your MIL is wrong. Being old isn’t an excuse for being racist. Unless she has dementia, I would not encourage your DDs to listen to racist comments and tolerate them. I also agree that your husband needs to shut his mom down and let her know that your entire family finds her rhetoric offensive.

I completely agree.

[Corie]

So grandma can say whatever she wants and won’t change, but the girls need to bite their tongues and not say anything?? Ideally DH, her son, should shut grandma down with “we don’t talk about people like that in this house mom”, and then change the topic. Or you do it if DH isn’t there. Unless she has dementia, grandma can bite her tongue. She’ll keep saying it though unless she’s told not to and it’s enforced.

I believe as parents it’s our job to shut down the mean nasty comments coming from family to protect our kids. They’ll see you shut it down and not engaging with her.





I completely agree with you!!!

[StantonHyde]

I need more context--your house or MILs? Does she spout off racist crap out of nowhere? Or does it have to be brought up? Like, your DDs don't need to start anything. But if MIL is saying something, then they can just say "I won't listen to your racist views" and leave the room. Your DH needs to shut it down. If you are at MILs, can you stay in a hotel so you get breaks? I have racist family members but if I go back for a funeral, then we can talk about 1,000 other things that have nothing to do with race. They know not to go there with me. If I hear anything, I veer away from that group of people and talk to others. And I have simply said, "no, that is not correct" or give, as Paddington would say, "a very hard stare". I don't debate but I'm not a teenager--I know better than to waste my time.

[niccig]

So grandma can say whatever she wants and won’t change, but the girls need to bite their tongues and not say anything?? Ideally DH, her son, should shut grandma down with “we don’t talk about people like that in this house mom”, and then change the topic. Or you do it if DH isn’t there. Unless she has dementia, grandma can bite her tongue. She’ll keep saying it though unless she’s told not to and it’s enforced.

I believe as parents it’s our job to shut down the mean nasty comments coming from family to protect our kids. They’ll see you shut it down and not engaging with her.


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Coming back to add as I was rushed this morning.

I let my mom get away with saying mean crap and tried to divert DS away from her. She’s grandma, let’s try to have some kind of relationship, he doesn’t see her very often, she’ll get mad and it will ruin the visit etc etc. Then he was 14 and she said mean nasty comments directly to him, such that we’re still dealing with fall out with him.

I regret not standing up earlier and putting myself in between my child and mother and telling her to knock it off. By tip toe around her feelings/beliefs to try and keep the peace, I let DS get hurt.

You don’t have to be confrontational, you do be firm “this behavior won’t be tolerated” change the topic or leave the room. It has to come from the adults and not from the kids. They’re only 15. You and DH protect them and show them how you stand up and tell someone what they’re saying won’t be tolerated. Will grandma probably get angry, yes, but your kids won’t get hurt, and the kids feelings outweighs grandma’s anger here. A “mom I told you were not discussing that/won’t talk like that. How about that crazy rainstorm we had last night...”. If mom persists, “mom that won’t be discussed. I’ll let you finish watching tv. Girls come help me in the kitchen” You shield your kids from grandma. You speak up before the girls can respond to grandma. Tell the girls you will deal with grandma, you and DH deal with her, and there’s no need for them to get into an argument with her.





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[gatorsmom]

Coming back to add as I was rushed this morning.

I let my mom get away with saying mean crap and tried to divert DS away from her. She’s grandma, let’s try to have some kind of relationship, he doesn’t see her very often, she’ll get mad and it will ruin the visit etc etc. Then he was 14 and she said mean nasty comments directly to him, such that we’re still dealing with fall out with him.

I regret not standing up earlier and putting myself in between my child and mother and telling her to knock it off. By tip toe around her feelings/beliefs to try and keep the peace, I let DS get hurt.

You don’t have to be confrontational, you do be firm “this behavior won’t be tolerated” change the topic or leave the room. It has to come from the adults and not from the kids. They’re only 15. You and DH protect them and show them how you stand up and tell someone what they’re saying won’t be tolerated. Will grandma probably get angry, yes, but your kids won’t get hurt, and the kids feelings outweighs grandma’s anger here. A “mom I told you were not discussing that/won’t talk like that. How about that crazy rainstorm we had last night...”. If mom persists, “mom that won’t be discussed. I’ll let you finish watching tv. Girls come help me in the kitchen” You shield your kids from grandma. You speak up before the girls can respond to grandma. Tell the girls you will deal with grandma, you and DH deal with her, and there’s no need for them to get into an argument with her.



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Wait, is MIL insulting and verbally abusing the kids? I didn't get that sense from the OP. I got the sense that the girls were regularly getting in arguments with their grandmother. She may be spouting off things she knows will irk them and picking a fight. That to me is very different from her attacking or insulting the kids. In that case, he11 yes, defend those kids and shut her down! That's abuse.

[niccig]

Wait, is MIL insulting and verbally abusing the kids? I didn't get that sense from the OP. I got the sense that the girls were regularly getting in arguments with their grandmother. She may be spouting off things she knows will irk them and picking a fight. That to me is very different from her attacking or insulting the kids. In that case, he11 yes, defend those kids and shut her down! That's abuse.

OP used the word “brawl”, I took that to mean the arguments were getting heated and the girls were getting hurt by what grandma said. Even if it’s not a “brawl” like that, arguments can get out of hand and either grandma or the girls may say something that hurts the others.

I still stand by one of the parent stepping in, ideally DH as it’s his mom, and shutting things down BEFORE the girls get into an argument with their grandmother. If it’s stopped before an argument starts, then the girls won’t get upset and grandma won’t get mad at the granddaughters. She may get mad at the parents, but it saves the girls’ feelings, and the parent can better deal with a mad grandmother.


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[California]

I like Niccig’s suggestion of role modeling as the adult a quick intervention and healthy boundary setting. You don’t share in your post what your views are, but I’m guessing you also don’t like your children being exposed to racist comments.

Personally, for me the challenging part is maintaining an appearance of calm firmness (even if my heart is racing and my palms are sweating!) I used to think behavior like this would “never change” and tried to live with it at family GTGs even though it upset me. Turns out, it only “never changed” because I hadn’t set my boundaries. After a few comments in front of our first kid, I just couldn’t tolerate it anymore. DH and I presented a firm, polite united front- with no qualms about leaving if needed- and low and behold, it worked! We didn’t say much at all. A quick, “I’m not comfortable with that language around my children,” and switch the topic. Repeat as needed.

If I’m reading your post wrong- and your teens are the ones bringing the topic up with MIL (ie MIL is not actually making racist comments), in that scenario I would ask teens to acknowledge that at least MIL respects your family enough to keep her comments/views to herself. And in return, ask them to keep their thoughts to themselves too.

[truly scrumptious]

YES TO THIS. Your MIL is wrong. Being old isn’t an excuse for being racist. Unless she has dementia, I would not encourage your DDs to listen to racist comments and tolerate them. I also agree that your husband needs to shut his mom down and let her know that your entire family finds her rhetoric offensive.

I agree with this as well.

Empowering your DD's to formulate a plan to deal with discussions that go off the rails FOR THEIR OWN PEACE OF MIND is a great idea. Ask them how they plan to approach the discussions and what they plan to do if it upsets them too much. And then support them in that plan. Ask them how they would like you to respond if MIL pulls you in (e.g. "Tell your kids not to be disrespectful") - do they want you to stay out of it? Engage with her and ask that she also stop the discussion? You need to draw all these lines before the visit.

It would be helpful to have a conversation with MIL (maybe your DH can) asking HER whether her priority is being right (and refusing to change) or maintaining a relationship with her granddaughters. That is a two way street and your DDs shouldn't have to bear the brunt of it. She can believe what she likes, but she can also choose to walk away from certain discussions in order to preserve the relationship ("agree to disagree and leave it at that")

[Twoboos]

First of all, I want to thank all of you for your responses! As I read each one I thought, " And THAT'S why I asked the BBB!" You've all given me a lot to think about, especially Gatorsmom, Green-Tea and niccig and followup comments that came from those posts. (not meaning to leave anyone out here- honestly each response is so helpful. Those just kind of struck me for some reason.)

A few things. We have rented a house for spring break (in state) about 2hrs away just for a change of scenery, so neutral ground. DH will definitely be talking to MIL before we go. It could go either way with her - Oh ok i get it or FINE I'm not coming. And of course we'll be talking to DDs, and hopefully coming up with guidelines/plans for dealing with foolishness.

I have been in these scenarios before with her. EX: her packing her bags and calling the airlines to change tix (when she lived far far away), because I called her out on using a disrespectful term about a gay couple. And I was very casual like - oh you probably shouldn't use that word - it was a DRAMA. (Heck I probably posted about it. :wink2:) I told DH the second she pulls the "I'm going home" card I'm throwing her in the car and not stopping til she's on her doorstep.

Also wanted to add she's not abusive to DDs, but they just get disgusted with her viewpoints. I swear sometimes she starts it by picking up on something DDs say in passing, or just dropping a comment to see how it goes over. I can't decide if she's really doing it on purpose. Just for perspective MIL loves playing both sides. "I can't believe they speak to me that way in my own home!" and also "I can't believe someone speaks to me that way as a guest in your home!" So yes she always can say what she wants and we can't. :shake:

MIL is a challenge. :52: :54:

[mommy111]

I know you’ve had plenty of good advice (which I have not all read so sorry if this is a duplicate). I come from the perspective of really thinking kids need to respectful of their parents and grandparents and we certainly parent that way. We’re very traditional
In this situation though, I have to say, MIL is the one I’d be having a conversation with. MIL, I know this will not end well so in the interests of peace, can you please avoid topics of contention such as your open racism and homophobia.
And then if she doesn’t and gets in a fight, I’d roll my eyes, do a ‘I told you so’ and walk out and let the girls and her have at it. Trust me she will be a lot better when she realizes she can’t play victim and guilt you and and DH and be the drama queen. When it’s just her having to deal with DGDs, she’ll learn to avoid the topics real fast.

[Twoboos]

Just wanted to update this! Our week basically went fine. DH and I were always listening for when things could go off the rails, and when they did it was in some other scenario lol! There was only one time she brought up something ridiculous and I could see the girls intaking breath to argue. ;) DH and I both shut MIL down ASAP and gave DDs The Look, and we all carried on. Of course after everyone got up from the table and DDs walked away MIL finished her point with me. :shake: I made a non-committal "Huh" sound and walked away too.

Now she'll be here this weekend for Mother's Day so more fun is coming I'm sure. :rotflmao: Thanks again for all the responses.

[truly scrumptious]

Just wanted to update this! Our week basically went fine. DH and I were always listening for when things could go off the rails, and when they did it was in some other scenario lol! There was only one time she brought up something ridiculous and I could see the girls intaking breath to argue. ;) DH and I both shut MIL down ASAP and gave DDs The Look, and we all carried on. Of course after everyone got up from the table and DDs walked away MIL finished her point with me. :shake: I made a non-committal "Huh" sound and walked away too.

Now she'll be here this weekend for Mother's Day so more fun is coming I'm sure. :rotflmao: Thanks again for all the responses.

So glad it went well. It sounds like your family (you, DH, DDs) are approaching this as a "team" which is such a great way to model dealing with bigger problems for your DDs. Everyone does their part to help things go smoothly, and yet you're all on the same page about the fact that it's hard (and a bit unfair.) And your DDs aren't bearing the brunt of it.
I hope you have a lovely Mother's Day! (with no drama)

[gatorsmom]

I’m so glad it went well. I’d pay big money to have my parents and grandparents alive for just one day- even one of their grumpiest days! I’m happy to hear you were able to spend some quality time with her.

And honestly, this is a great habit you are forming with your children. The ability to walk away from something incendiary and keep the peace. That’s a valuable quality that’s in short supply right now. Good job, mom!!