DD has no friends and...it is her own fault. What to do?

[bisous]

It is still October and DD has already managed to blow through most of the potential playmates in the 2nd grade. It is heartbreaking. She attracts kids easily but she gets so angry and has no filter. She has no formal diagnosis, but I believe that she has qualities of ADHD and DMDD. She has baseline grumpiness and additionally if anyone does something that upsets her she immediately lashes out. Mostly with yelling and angry faces but at home she's been known to slug one of her brothers. We referred her for ADHD testing through our health insurance in January 2020 and unfortunately she did not qualify as "impaired" enough for testing. I think I'm going to try again! We're actively seeking a therapist for her and also for my oldest DS1, who has already had 2 other therapists that weren't fits. I know this is a crucial step but it is a hard one!

She's the youngest and only girl. I've had people tell me that I should celebrate the "fire" in her. I've had other people tell me I must be spoiling her.

The truth is we are very strict with her yelling and lashing out. We never let it slide and immediately intervene, often with a consequence of "take a minute in your room to regroup" but she also loses privileges for continued aggression. I also am just not sure how much she is capable of controlling it! We have talked it through so many times. We're trying to teach her to empathize with her friends. We practice deep breathing. We practice expressing ourselves more calmly. I try to make sure she gets plenty of sleep, plenty of time outside, lots of quality time with me, that she eats healthy.

I feel so badly for her. I think she knows that she's the reason that her friends run away from her at recess. But I really can't blame them! Me as a little girl would be afraid of DD as she can be sweet and fun and then turn and be very mean and loud.

WWYD? For her? For us as parents watching this play out and feeling so helpless?

TIA!

[AnnieW625]

Can you get her involved in Scouts, Girl Scouts, or 4-H? Little things like that might help. The earlier you start in Girl Scouts the better (at least in my experience…..I tried to get DD2 involved in 3rd grade and was told the troops in our school were full[emoji2368] ). Second grade is a really hard age for friends I found with both of my girls because that is when friend groups seemed to form.


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[bisous]

Can you get her involved in Scouts, Girl Scouts, or 4-H? Little things like that might help. The earlier you start in Girl Scouts the better. Second grade is a really hard age for friends I found with both of my girls because that is when friend groups seemed to form.


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That's a good idea! She's been out of things since K due to COVID but maybe now that the vaccine is (almost) approved?

And you are right. Actually my boys had a tricky time with friends in 2nd grade too. ALL THREE OF THEM! How short is my memory!

Still, she is REALLY struggling. But I like the idea of scouts because I remember that kids with ADHD do best with structured activities. Thanks for your input!

[KpbS]

I’m sorry! That is so hard.

Does she have an athletic outlet like running/running club, soccer, or gymnastics?

Those can help kids expend energy and manage emotions over time.

[bisous]

I’m sorry! That is so hard.

Does she have an athletic outlet like running/running club, soccer, or gymnastics?

Those can help kids expend energy and manage emotions over time.

She's not very athletic at all. When we do walks as a family she's always behind and constantly complaining. She does love to swim and loves the beach so we try to do that more often. Maybe that's another thing we can look into now that maybe we're almost "post" pandemic?

[essnce629]

I’m sorry! That is so hard.

Does she have an athletic outlet like running/running club, soccer, or gymnastics?

Those can help kids expend energy and manage emotions over time.Yes, I'd definitely look into some type of extracurricular for her. She doesn't need to be athletic or anything, that's the point of trying out different things. I'd put her in soccer, which is outdoors. Even if it's just a simple skills clinic to begin.

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[DietCokeLover]

Another good outlet is martial arts. It expends energy but also has a high degree of self control and respect instilled in them. I recommend it to a lot of families in my therapy practice for kids similar to your DD.

[bisous]

essnce she's mentioned soccer before! She wants to learn so that's a great tip. Skills clinics are a really good idea. And DietCokeLover that is a great idea! I bet DS3 would love martial arts too.

[DualvansMommy]

Martial arts would be excellent for your DD, as well soccer too. Or even joining a swim club is great option as well.

This does sound so hard, this kind of thing if told often enough can be self prophecy that *she* will believe eventually she isn’t good enough for anyone. This is a fine line of correcting behavior and yet not making her feel terrible about herself. So, to that end, joining a club/organized sport will be good for DD as it’ll lend her more authority people outside of parents/school in her life.


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[bisous]

Martial arts would be excellent for your DD, as well soccer too. Or even joining a swim club is great option as well.

This does sound so hard, this kind of thing if told often enough can be self prophecy that *she* will believe eventually she isn’t good enough for anyone. This is a fine line of correcting behavior and yet not making her feel terrible about herself. So, to that end, joining a club/organized sport will be good for DD as it’ll lend her more authority people outside of parents/school in her life.


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Thank you for this reminder. This is HARD for me. Kindness is like our deepest family value so having a little girl who can be so mean is just so difficult. I love her and want her to do well. A lot of what I've read about kids who struggle in these ways is that they can't make too many corrections until they are older and can benefit from CBT. In the meantime it is a waiting game and the best interventions are parenting strategies and providing an optimum environment to reduce stress and help her deal with her big feelings!

[georgiegirl]

Ask for an IEP evaluation at school for behavior/social issues. DS2 is the same age, and he qualified for services at school. He’s super smart, so he’s not negatively impacted academically. But he had difficulty making friends, effectively communicating with other kids, and handling his emotions. He is really doing well this year, and I think a lot of it is his special Ed services.

And some kids don’t respond well to strict parenting when they have emotional outbursts. If she has a deficit, she can’t really control it without the proper tools/skills. My DH responds in a more authoritative way with DS2, and it almost always escalates things.

Feel free to reach out. I do have some info on a similar-ish situation in your district and the services received.

[hbridge]

Ask for an IEP evaluation at school for behavior/social issues. DS2 is the same age, and he qualified for services at school. He’s super smart, so he’s not negatively impacted academically. But he had difficulty making friends, effectively communicating with other kids, and handling his emotions. He is really doing well this year, and I think a lot of it is his special Ed services.

And some kids don’t respond well to strict parenting when they have emotional outbursts. If she has a deficit, she can’t really control it without the proper tools/skills. My DH responds in a more authoritative way with DS2, and it almost always escalates things.

Feel free to reach out. I do have some info on a similar-ish situation in your district and the services received.

You may even want to look into a private neuropsych. They can actually diagnose any issues and make detailed recommendations for you and for the school. At that age, she would benefit from knowing exactly what might be causing her to "be mean" and how to move forward.

[basil]

This isn’t really advice but something that DS’s teacher brought up in our conference (that I posted about below!).

We should keep in mind that these kids have had now 1.5 years of lack of normal kid interactions. They are behind. Both your DD and the kids who are not wanting to play with her. Especially for her age group, she’s never had a normal year of school! Of course she is struggling.

She can’t “read the room” because she hasn’t developed those skills yet. It will take time. I honestly don’t know the steps to take to help her get there, but just thinking of it this way helped me see my DS in a more sympathetic light. Similar to my son, I’m sure she’ll take her spirit and use it for good someday!

[lizzywednesday]

Ask for an IEP evaluation at school for behavior/social issues. ...

Seconding this - note the deficits she's showing, and be the squeaky wheel. She needs more support.




And some kids don’t respond well to strict parenting when they have emotional outbursts. If she has a deficit, she can’t really control it without the proper tools/skills. ...

So much this!

DD does much better with positive discipline - I'm not saying that there are no consequences for behaviors that can hurt herself or others, like hitting or throwing things (or whatever else she's done that day), but she does much better when I recognize the behavior I want to encourage.

She also has counseling sessions with one of the school psychologists, the behaviorist, and an IEP now for her ADHD.

Even if the school can't diagnose her, she needs support to succeed. Keep squeaky-wheeling it.

[gatorsmom]

You may even want to look into a private neuropsych. They can actually diagnose any issues and make detailed recommendations for you and for the school. At that age, she would benefit from knowing exactly what might be causing her to "be mean" and how to move forward.

Yes to this. When Ds3 get was 38 months old I knew something was off but he had outgrown the states early childhood intervention program (by 2 months). The school district did an evaluation of him and found absolutely nothing wrong. We sought a private eval a few years later and his ADHD was off the charts. The therapy and medication prescribed after that private eval have made the world of difference.

I also wanted to agree with Dualvans mom that for whatever reason, being strict with Ds3 never worked. In order to get through to him, I found humor to be the best way. Being strict and squelching bad behavior worked well with my other kids but had the opposite effect with Ds3. Now that he’s older and can be reasoned with, I can speak seriously with him about behaviors they aren’t appropriate and he responds seriously, “sorry, mom, you are right. I won’t say that stuff again.” But that didn’t start until 6th or 7th grade.

One last thing, if you find that the Girl Scouts isn’t a good fit for your dd for whatever reason, do try BSA cub scouts! Friends on our local council have said that the cub scout troops around the country are seeing record low numbers coming back after the lockdowns. So you should definitely find there’s room for your dd.

[carolinamama]

First, hugs to you. Parenting is hard, especially when our kids need extra help to succeed. I haven't read through everyone else's responses thoroughly so this may be all repeats. So many kids are showing signs of social struggles right now. The novelty of school and structure has worn off and it's just plain hard for them to "people" all day long. Their self-control and social skills weren't necessary for months and now we expect them to jump right back at their grades' developmentally appropriate stage without the learning and practice. Our district's counselors have told teachers it may realistically be 2 or more years before kids are socially and behaviorally back to where they were pre-pandemic. An extracurricular activity/sport may also help her gain confidence and give another chance to practice socializing.

Does your school counselor offer social skills groups? Our school does lunch bunch groups. Kids are grouped with several other kids with similar struggles and meet for 6-8 lunches. Your DD could work on social skills in a safe group setting. DS2 was part of one for anxiety in 2nd and 3rd grade and it was helpful for his needs. Kids are usually referred by a teacher but I referred DS2 myself since I knew the counselor well.

Have you considered a private neuropsych eval? It may be helpful getting answers and treatment if you are having trouble getting insurance to approve. Keep fighting and advocating and I'm sure your DD will get the help she needs.

[ezcc]

Just jumping in to echo what basil said about rusty social skills- every teacher I have talked to has noticed this, it seems to be a real issue with first and second grade in particular. DS who is super easy going made some definite social missteps this summer when he was around kids for the first time at the pool- I think a little too much tv/YouTube and just not enough practice with real people. He was trying to joke around and some of it just fell really flat/upset a friend. His school (which is new to him this year) is putting a lot of extra thought and time into social/emotional learning for this reason.

[Kindra178]

Does your insurance cover OT? I think she can use some training in dealing with big spirited emotions. It really worked for one of mine. There was also a spin off super hero type program that taught identifying and dealing with emotions. Finally, see if you can a social skills class.


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