Potty Training - what age is considered "late"?

My nephew is 4 years, 4 mos old. He is not potty trained. He was supposed to enter preschool this year but can't as he is still totally in diapers. My brother and his wife say that they have tried, but my SIL has a "hands off" approach to parenting....she thinks he will learn whatever he needs to when he is ready.

(She has also never cut this kids hair...he has long hair hanging halfway down his back...she says she wants him to be his own person and decide for himself how he wants his hair, not society... and he still talks baby talk and we have a hard time understanding him but I digress....)

Is there an age that is considered "late" for potty training? How do kids who are not guided by parents learn? What happens if he still hasn't learned next August when he is supposed to start Kindergarten?

I am certainly concerned about the potential socio-cognitive effects of this, but I don't know enough (as a new parent myself) about the technical details.

Advice?

eta...P.S...yes, I have read Brazelton v Rosemond articles....

I thought that b/w 2-3 years was considered "average". My own kiddo was later, though.

From pullups.com

By following hundreds of potty trainers through the process, the Medical College of Wisconsin (MCW) went straight to the source in an unprecedented study that revealed some long-awaited answers and a whole new approach to training.

Key Findings
Every child progresses at his/her own pace.
Potty training takes an average of 8 months.
The average age for completion is 34 months for girls and 37.5 months for boys.
The typical age for the start of potty training is 24 months.
Switching back into diapers after you have moved to training pants may actually slow potty training progress.
When it comes to success, things like temperament, development, use of daycare, previous toilet training experience or having an older sibling around actually have no impact on progress.

He's late, but I don't know if he is terribly late. Has she put any effort into showing him or encouraging him?

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KBecks

From pullups.com

By following hundreds of potty trainers through the process, the Medical College of Wisconsin (MCW) went straight to the source in an unprecedented study that revealed some long-awaited answers and a whole new approach to training.

Key Findings
Every child progresses at his/her own pace.
Potty training takes an average of 8 months.
The average age for completion is 34 months for girls and 37.5 months for boys.
The typical age for the start of potty training is 24 months.
Switching back into diapers after you have moved to training pants may actually slow potty training progress.
When it comes to success, things like temperament, development, use of daycare, previous toilet training experience or having an older sibling around actually have no impact on progress.

He's late, but I don't know if he is terribly late. Has she put any effort into showing him or encouraging him?

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Thanks for the info!

I found a statistic last night that said only 2% remain untrained by age 4. No, they talk about it, but I don't think they actually do much *consistently* to encourage him. And the family dynamic is such that I can't say much to her. I am hoping that I can get some info, share it with my mom (who is worried), then she can gentley explain it to my brother. My SIL's mother passed away when she was a teenager and she has a chip on her shoulder about anyone who tries to tell her what to do. She has never taken parenting information from anyone and she thinks the situation is just fine.

My poor nephew....he rarely plays with other kids, so he doesn't get a chance to learn by example etc.

My pediatrician had said that 4 was a realistic goal for a boy. I appreciated that information because my ds was 2 months shy of 4 before he pt'ed. We had tried everything and it had become a major power struggle. One day he decided to do it, he did it and was day and night done that day and has never had an accident. I am not going to push the issue with ds2 til he is close to 4 (though I will encourage any interest, have a potty, undies, books...closer to 3 or sooner) because it was so darned easy this way.

I refuse to send ds to preschools with age restrictions because they are not often developmentally appropriate. None of the preschools that were top rated in my city had age restrictions on it and never made ds feel bad about not being pt'ed. There are preschools out there, I bet, that they could find for him. My ds wasn't swayed by his classmates learning to use the potty but that's ok. Perhaps you could look up preschools that he could attend despite not being pt'ed so he could have that social experience though? Of course, if he is from a stimulating, attentive home where they do things like playdates (even once a month) and get out of the house (even to the grocery store) there are many studies that say preschool is unnecesary.

Kids make developmental and cognitive leaps almost overnight. I bet it will click for him well before kindergarten is an issue.

If ds had turned 4 and still not been pt'ed I probably would have tried harder. But, till then it wasn't worth it because he just was not ready to do it.

Do you see him often? Have him come over for a viewing of the DVD "Potty Power" and some popcorn. That DVD seemed to help ds by planting a few more seeds. Most libraries have potty training DVDs or could get them for you.

Beth

Is it just the potty issue, or do you think his needs are not being met? I wonder when you say that he talks baby talk too. I think it's normal not to understand everything a 4 year old says, but you can understand some things, yes?

I think he will probably be OK, but parents do have to do a little teaching. I agree it is up to the child eventually to do it, but the parents have to provide a little encouragement and instruction. I think if he is not PT by 5, and has problems in kindergarten I think a social worker might get called. That's just a guess though, maybe some kindy teachers know...

Although with the hands-off approach it sounds like they may not do school at all? Have they talked about kindergarten, or are they going to do a nontraditional school route?

The situation sounds sad to me but I can imagine how hard it is to offer any help or suggestions.

Quote:

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Originally Posted by SnuggleBuggles

My pediatrician had said that 4 was a realistic goal for a boy. I appreciated that information because my ds was 2 months shy of 4 before he pt'ed. We had tried everything and it had become a major power struggle. One day he decided to do it, he did it and was day and night done that day and has never had an accident. I am not going to push the issue with ds2 til he is close to 4 (though I will encourage any interest, have a potty, undies, books...closer to 3 or sooner) because it was so darned easy this way.

I refuse to send ds to preschools with age restrictions because they are not often developmentally appropriate. None of the preschools that were top rated in my city had age restrictions on it and never made ds feel bad about not being pt'ed. There are preschools out there, I bet, that they could find for him. My ds wasn't swayed by his classmates learning to use the potty but that's ok. Perhaps you could look up preschools that he could attend despite not being pt'ed so he could have that social experience though? Of course, if he is from a stimulating, attentive home where they do things like playdates (even once a month) and get out of the house (even to the grocery store) there are many studies that say preschool is unnecesary.

Kids make developmental and cognitive leaps almost overnight. I bet it will click for him well before kindergarten is an issue.

If ds had turned 4 and still not been pt'ed I probably would have tried harder. But, till then it wasn't worth it because he just was not ready to do it.

Do you see him often? Have him come over for a viewing of the DVD "Potty Power" and some popcorn. That DVD seemed to help ds by planting a few more seeds. Most libraries have potty training DVDs or could get them for you.

Beth

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This would be a great answer if this were a normal situation...they can't afford a private pre-school, they have never done a playdate (SIL says they are overrated and more for mommies than kids), we live 3000 miles away, so, no, I don't see him often, and he gets very little social interaction beyond his parents. This kid ate meals on a mat on the floor until a few months ago when they finally rearranged their furniture to accomodate a table (they ate on their sofa watching tv til then).

SIL does a good job teaching him manners and numbers and letters etc, but she is a bit anti-social herself, so my nephew stays with her all day long.

The video idea is something that might work...I'll see what's on Amazon and send it to them...that's pretty benign...I have to be careful getting too involved...but I am worried for him. They can barely afford rent, let alone Pull-Ups.

Thanks for the info, though...good stuff for us to remember in the future!

Quote:

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Originally Posted by KBecks

Is it just the potty issue, or do you think his needs are not being met? I wonder when you say that he talks baby talk too. I think it's normal not to understand everything a 4 year old says, but you can understand some things, yes?

I think he will probably be OK, but parents do have to do a little teaching. I agree it is up to the child eventually to do it, but the parents have to provide a little encouragement and instruction. I think if he is not PT by 5, and has problems in kindergarten I think a social worker might get called. That's just a guess though, maybe some kindy teachers know...

Although with the hands-off approach it sounds like they may not do school at all? Have they talked about kindergarten, or are they going to do a nontraditional school route?

The situation sounds sad to me but I can imagine how hard it is to offer any help or suggestions.

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The situation is sad...you're right. He is a sweet boy and loving, but lonely. Yes, we can understand some words, but he sounds more like a 3 yo than a 4 1/2 yo. They want him in school so SIL can work (they really need the paycheck), but as far as I can tell, public schools in WA require kids to be PT'd.

I guess I have more research to do! Thanks for your answer.