Jude...

[stillplayswithbarbies]

What about a Ken doll in a wedding dress? :)

Every little girl does that at one time or another, and many adult Barbie collectors are horrified when they get their childhood Barbies down from the attic and find that they left Ken in a wedding gown. :)

I've seen a very well done Drag Queen Ken in someone's collection that she made in tribute to a friend of hers.

But if you really want gender neutral . . . Mattel made a Rosie O'Donnell Barbie but didn't make any clothes for her except her red suit jacket and black pants that she came in. Adult collectors discovered that some of Ken's clothes fit her. (her body was realistically shaped like the real Rosie O'Donnell)

Oh and just because I play with Barbies doesn't mean I let my daughter play with them. :) Maybe when she is older . . .

...Karen
DS Jake Feb 91, DD Logan Mar 03
http://members.aol.com/khowe14494/superpower.gif http://members.aol.com/khowe14494/bo...breastfed2.gif

[Judegirl]

ROFL..!! I'm all for things we do that we don't let our children do; I'm just NOT giving up my tv!!!

[janinegillot]

Yeah, I do sometimes get the sense that gender neutralism is a rejection of "female" (but not in the way you're going about it, Jude). My dh (the one raised in a gender neutral household) used to be derisive towards girlish activities like doll play and playing house. But once I pointed out how sexist it was to assume that "boy" activities were somehow superior, he realized how subconsiously biased he was. And I think that witnessing how our toddler daughter has consistently gravitated towards babies all on her own has made him see that there is just as much value in it as there is in playing sports (for example).
Here's an example of a non-pastel fairy shirt by Naartjie:


http://www.windsorpeak.com/dc/user_files/22808.jpg

[caldreamer]

Jude, is there a discussion board where people talk about this stuff regularly? I have to say, given that I live in the Bay Area (and go to UC Berkeley, no less) none of this sounds even SORTA extreme to me, LOL. But it's something I think about a lot. I'm a former middle school teacher and have at times gone crazy over the gender assumptions that absolutely rule that scary period of life. And I know it's a stretch to avoid boy clothes covered with power tools and monster trucks in the hopes of getting my DS to question some of those assumptions, but I still want to try. Anyway, suggestions on places to keep talking about this? Thanks!

Stephanie

[caldreamer]

Whoops! My reply ended up in the middle rather than at the bottom of the thread... mommy brain :) Here it is again!

Jude, is there a discussion board where people talk about this stuff regularly? I have to say, given that I live in the Bay Area (and go to UC Berkeley, no less) none of this sounds even SORTA extreme to me, LOL. But it's something I think about a lot. I'm a former middle school teacher and have at times gone crazy over the gender assumptions that absolutely rule that scary period of life. And I know it's a stretch to avoid boy clothes covered with power tools and monster trucks in the hopes of getting my DS to question some of those assumptions, but I still want to try. Anyway, suggestions on places to keep talking about this? Thanks!

Stephanie

[Marisa6826]

Beth-

I love that outfit. Where is it from?

-m

[Melanie]

We have tried to take the androgenous route to child-rearing as well, though we have a son. In college, both of us took a class which spent quite a bit of time discussing sex-role socialization and that really had an impact on us. However, we do draw the line on some things (i.e. I do not dress Ds in obviously feminine clothing or pink or purple).

He's always had dolls, sports equipment, stuffed animals, trucks, etc. etc. Dh likes to cook so of course Ds has a kitchen. Things like that. He likes to put on my shoes and wear them around, or carry my bag sometimes. We don't freak out about things like that and really am dismayed that in this day & age some parents (mostly fathers) still do!

Anyway, having said that, he's 3 now and I DO see these suddenly traditionally "Boy" traits coming out in him (even without preschool yet)! GASP! Scarey. LOL. He's starting to enjoy crashing his vehicles, rougher play and other things like that...they just seem to be coming out of no where. I've been told that boys have a testosterone surge around age 3 or 4 so maybe that's it. LOL.



[center]http://lilypie.com/baby4/011106/1/2/0/+10/.png[/img][/url]

Expecting #2
http://lilypie.com/days/050904/0/0/0/-8/.png[/img][/url]

[Phoebe]

This is all very interesting.... it reminds me of a Nova episode on PBS about a boy with a botched circumcision. So the doctors "made" him into a girl and told the parents to raise him as such since gender identity is just nurture, right? Wrong. This "girl" always knew something was wrong and felt like a boy. Scientists now know that male and female brains are different, not just their genitalia.

It seems like this is dangerous territory - trying to squelch the natural boy or girl that emerge from a toddler.

http://www.pbs.org/wgbh/nova/transcr...813gender.html

Mary
DD 4/01
DS 6/03

[muskiesusan]

Melanie, we have noticed the same thing with our son as well. He also has had little outside exposure since he is not yet in school and is with one of us all of the time. He is not as rough as most of the boys in the neighborhood, but I think that is the willingness of those parents to expose their children to media that I won't (I am puzzled by Spiderman). I am also saddened when I hear people talk about boy or girl toys. My husband cooks, helps with the baby, etc and I drive a car, use a screwdriver, etc-so where is the gender divide there?

I have been thinking about this a lot since Jude's post on husband's helping around the house. The parental responsibilities, specifically in regards to the baby stage, fall mainly on me. Is this because we are assuming gender roles assigned to us by society? I have decided, no, but instead it is based in biology. I was simply designed that way. I was meant to nuture the baby from conception through weaning. My husband is a very involved father, but his involvement really did increase 10 fold once Nick weaned, and in fact, Nick mainly calls out for him at night for comfort (which is fine by me, lol).

Baby's crying, so I have to go, but this topic does fascinate me!

Susan
Mom to Nick 10/01/01
& Alex 04/27/04

[egoldber]

Marisa, that was from Gymboree's Hide and Seek line last fall.

I love Gymboree, but I generally do not buy the more frilly stuff thats available in the lines, just the cotton knit basics. :)