Penalty for not using car seat?

[miscelster]

Does anyone know what the penalties are for not using a car seat? I'm asking because the grandparents occasionally make comments about "just carry DC in your lap", etc when we can't go somewhere or do something b/c we don't have a carseat with us. I keep trying to talk about safety, but get waved off - I guess because they figured we all survived without carseats, so what's the big deal? So I'm wondering if I can emphasize the legal aspect of it, except I don't know what the consequences are. Is it just a fine? Any ideas?

[Momof3Labs]

The laws probably vary by state, but the laws of physics do not. Why try to explain it to them in terms of fines or tickets, when what really matters are the laws of physics? There are plenty of crash test videos around the internet to help you out there.

[Splash]

Penalty- My child is seriously injured or killed, get over it grandma! Red Lobster is not that important!

Penalty- Showing my child he doesn't matter as much as that trip to Target.

Penalty- Crushing and well deserved guilt and sorrow for all adults involved who allow this child to be injured or killed in any accident, especially one he would have lived through in a seat.

It ticks me off when people try to explain by money. Oh I'll get a fifty dollar ticket! So fifty bucks is worth more than his LIFE? Heck, I would take a fifty dollar ticket to KEEP my kid in a seat past what is legal (thinking 48 pounds in Canada) but still safe.

Don't give in to them by acting like his life isn't that important, that you only use a seat because it's the law. If they won't get over it, they're not worth going places with.

You want a law penalty?
Penalty- You're in jail for child endangerment because your son is paralyzed and it's your fault.

Don't mean to sound so mean, but it's stuff like this (only doing it because it's the law, or pretending to only do it because it's the law) that downplays the seriousness of it. Who CARES if it's the law of man? What's may more important are the laws of physics and basic common sense.

[ekbecker1]

Whoa! Ease up, everybody!

To the original poster: I can totally sympathize with you. I know people (also elderly) like your grandparents who are difficult to convince of the safety issues. And you don't want to be rude and say, "hey stupid, here's why car seats are important. . ." After all, your grandparents don't mean any harm. They simply haven't been exposed to the information that modern moms have access to.

Sometimes it is easier to convince people if you have a third party "authority" on your side. Maybe they would take the safety issue more seriously if "The Government" had rules about it. That way they don't write it off to "she's a crazy paranoid mom." I use that trick a lot with my kids. . ."The pediatrician said they shouldn't eat cake for dinner every night."

Actually, I'd be interested to know the answer too!

[kijip]

Your local police precinct office or state troopers office would be able to tell you with a quick call.

The penalties vary but can include fines and mandatory safety seat classes/workshop. My brother was ticketed in Florida for have a SnugRide forward facing (what can I say, my brother is not the sharpest tack on the bulliten board) with a toddler riding in it and the penalty was a fine and a class that he had to pay for.

Still, you really needn't worry about justifying it to them. My parents and grandmother are very much a good part of my life and while they may not understand that something is needed, they respect that I get to decide for my son. Perhaps the problem would be solved by having a spare seat to keep at their house so you can still do things spur of the moment?

[tjham]

In Arizona, it is only a $50 fine which is waived if you can "prove" you bought a car seat. So there is no teeth to the law whatsoever. How sad...

[Piglet]

Yeah, around here it is pretty piddly too. My friend has never buckled up any of her 4 kids and I called the police to ask about the penalty thinking that she can't afford a ticket (x4) so that might convince her. The policewoman answering the phone basically said that if she doesn't care then she doesn't care - the ticket is not going to convince her of anything other than the "stupidity" of the law. She is just one of those people that think the government meddles too much as it is, so adding insult to potential injury isn't going to do it!

To the OP, I find that standing my ground has brought about some new respect from my parents and ILs. I think it is like kids - if you are their friend and have no set rules they won't respect you as much as if you have a routine and consequences. My dad once told me that he was SO tempted to forego the infant seat with DS1 in that phase when DS1 hated his carseat and my dad was just driving 5 minutes to my house, but he knew that he couldn't live with himself if something happened, plus he knew how important it was to me. That was all the convincing I needed to trust him to drive my kids around. I think you need to be tactful and pick your battles. Carseats are dealbreakers for me. Cake for breakfast is not (well only if I can have a piece too). Be polite and respectful and if you need the law to back you up as yet another reason to do something then use it. There is a reason things are illegal and if that helps your argument, then all the more reason to have carseat use mandated by law.

Good luck,

[miscelster]

Perhaps you misunderstood - it's not that the grandparents don't care or intellectually don't understand, I think they just really figured that since we (their own children) all lived without carseats, then why is it a big deal if we take a quick drive out somewhere wihtout one? It's that whole "it'll never happen to me" mentality.
I NEVER NEVER go out without a carseat, but my fear is that if one day when I needed them to watch my DC, they might be tempted to go out w/o strapping him in (since they seem to so blaise about it). So, if I let them know there are dire legal consequences, then they might think twice.

They know how strongly I feel about carseats and other stuff, but frankly, I don't think they particularly care. This is partly why they rarely get to babysit him. They see him, but only when I'm around.

[miscelster]

Ekbeckers-
thanks for your understanding - that's exactly what I was aiming for! I do the "pediatrician says" thing, too! (it's the best way to silence their questions quickly!)

[kellyotn]

As you can see, legal penalties varies widely and are sometimes almost non-existant. I second the recommendation of calling your local police or find a local tech and ask if you think it will help.

For "consequences" tell them what you said here. That car seats are utterly non-negotiable and the consequence of their complaining about it is that you don't think you'll ever be able to ever the baby alone with them if you aren't 110% sure they'll comply.

Use terms like "the baby will be a human projectile", "child crushed to death by adult holding him". It doesn't take a high speed crash to kill a loose child. Period. And, there's always the Idiots on the Road. The drunk moron going 60 mph in a residential neighborhood, etc. Can't control them, all you can control is that the car seat is used.

We all survived, but was there ever an accident? No accident, well that's just dumb luck. :)