Mommy's Own and Daddy's Own

[MartiesMom2B]

I have to say that I don't like this idea. I'll have to admit that I did blush when I realized that some men were reading our posts in the mommyfit section, but when I realized that it was helping out their wives, who don't have time to go on the boards I got over it. For that reason, I don't like the idea of excluding men, especially for birth experiences or breastfeeding. My husband was my partner for my daughters birth and a coach too, why wouldn't I want him to know about other people's experiences. I think the men on the boards have a right to read about the birth experience to share with their wives. And as for breastfeeding, I don't think I'd be able to breastfeed with the confidence I have without my husband's support. I think men have a right to read about this as well. I have seen father's on here and I really don't think that they are getting their "jollies" out of reading our posts. I think by excluding men on certain forums will be excluding their wives too.

Sonia
Proud Mommy to Martie 4/6/03

[luvbeinmama]

I have to say I disagree on this one. Personally, I never posted about the one risque post, but I totally support Flagger on this one. He stayed out of the original post, and only posted to say thanks because reading it helped him and Ms. Flagger, which I thought totally appropriate. There is no way to keep any part of this public board moms only or dads only, and I think it would only hurt things around here. Let's not start segregating moms & dads.

[jojo2324]

I dislike the idea. I think to exclude men (and exclusion would be impossible on a public website) from discussions where BFing, periods, sex lives, whatever, are topics, would only continue the cycle of thinking that "men don't understand." Maybe they don't, maybe they never will. But not having access to those conversations is a guarantee that there is no CHANCE for them to understand. Perhaps a private forum, set up independently from this site, would be the answer.

And, as far as I see it, the Daddy forum would be pretty empty.

[celfsh]

I have to say I'm not a fan of this idea either. If there is a need for members to discuss things of a more "intimate" nature--thus requiring a private forum--then I think there are other, more appropriate, venues (such as Yahoo groups) for doing so.

Just my 2 cents...

celeste
mom to olivia 9/25/02

[Rachels]

I've thought about this some more, and now I'm going to eat crow and say that I actually don't think this is the answer. I DO believe that men's groups and women's groups can be quite valuable by their nature, so it's not that I don't think there's ever a place for them. But on reflection, I don't actually think that's the issue here. I wasn't involved in the Mommy Fit debacle and didn't read it all before things blew up, but my sense is that the problem isn't about having other people read what is written, it's in having them respond in ways that are attacking or hurtful or vicious. I think that the idea for separate forums probably arose out of what has become more than a murmur of unease-- a sense that it has gotten less safe to post intimacies and fears and weaknesses, because sometimes when people do that lately, they get attacked. So it's a larger issue than separate forums can address. That's why I think that separate forums aren't the answer. (And I agree that it would be a logistical problem for Alan and Denise.)

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[stillplayswithbarbies]

My suggestion wasn't made in order to keep others from reading, or even to lock them out of posting. I guess I was just looking for a way to help people realize when they are about to make a social gaffe.

I used the MommyFit as an example, but what really prompted me to think about this is some things that were said in the Bitching Forum. It seems that some people feel that women need or want to be able to support other women sometimes without a man stepping into it. Not all the time, of course, because men have a different perspective and sometimes that is valuable. But sometimes women just want to talk with other women, and usually that becomes apparent from the tone of the thread, or the nature of the discussion.

But if it was in a forum that said "For women to support each other", then it would be clear and there would be no social gaffe happening. Unless someone was deliberately being rude.

I assume the same would go for men as well. Maybe if they had their own space, more would post here. I see a few in the stroller forum now and then.

I hate what is happening to the boards. I hate that people have stopped posting. I hate that the friendly tone is gone and that some people just seem to be gunnin' for a fight.

...Karen
Jacob Nathaniel Feb 91
Logan Elizabeth Mar 03

[cinrein]

Karen,

I really hate what's happening too. It's sad. I'm not sure what the solution is, but I don't know that creating separate forums is the answer.

When I come across something that rubs me the wrong way, I usually ingore it and move on. My first assumption is that I probably read it in a way that the poster did not intend, or it came off in a way the poster did not intend. It does seem like people are gunning for a fight and frankly I'm choosing my words very carefully when I post.

Thanks for trying to fix what's happening. :)


Cindy and Anna 2/11/03

[lisams]

It is sad that people have left or stopped posting just because of a few people. I for one am not going to let these few scare me off or make me post any less. I just ignore the posts that are power trips or button pushing - they know who they are. I feel bad they need to use this forum to make them feel all big and mighty. They would get so much more support if they treated others the way they wish to be treated. It's that simple.

Lisa

[sntm]

whew. wasn't going to comment, but...

Hypothetically, I like the idea of a mommy's forum and daddy's forum. I know the daddy's forum wouldn't get as much use, but maybe it would also encourage some men to post more. They wouldn't feel like their voices were getting lost amongst a gaggle of women.

There are issues, very few issues, that I would like to share only with women. I've realized now, sadly, that over the internet this is impossible. I've always been fairly trusting/naive that other people would respect when someone asks for privacy -- it's why I always railed against HIPAA! -- but in reality it just doesn't happen. I was the one who originally posted in the mommy fit "debacle" and thought that labeling it "mom's only" would be enough. I know I would never have intruded on a "dad's only" post, but that's me.

The kicker is that I've always been pretty open about just about everything with everybody. I work with mostly men and have a lot of male friends and we discuss everything, including sex, and bowel habits, and money, etc. I welcome the male point of view, even though the attitudes can be very very different (why do men always want to fix everything? sometimes women just want to commisserate)

This was just ONE little thing that I wanted to discuss just with women, and since I had NO female friends with babies at that time (heather (heva) hadn't delivered), I had no IRL people to discuss this with. I would not have posted in the first place if I thought that men would actually ignored my request and read it anyway. I'm sure there are a lot of men who have questions about sensitive issues and whenever possible (whenever I feel comfortable doing so) I want to be there to discuss those, but in this instance I did not feel comfortable doing so. The end result is that I would NEVER post about those sorts of things again. So now EVERONE (me, other women, men) loses out.

I agree that this forum shouldn't have to be everything to all people, but I feel/felt a strong bond with a lot of the people here and frankly I don't have the time to grow these bonds elsewhere. Or even to check another message board. This one eats up plenty of time already! And the boards certainly have grown beyond where they started -- maybe half of my posts are about consumer issues but the rest are about life issues. Most of other users' posts are the same.

Sigh. So, once bitten, twice shy. The rose-colored glasses are off. Any more cliches?

I would be just as wary of posting in a mommy's only forum about sensitive issues as I would be in the other forums. And for when I just need support and not advice? Well, I guess I can take my chances in the "big boards" and will hope that people respect that.


shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[flagger]

>>>But if it was in a forum that said "For women to support each other"<<<

Which is exactly the point I originally tried to make. My MIL wouldn't be welcome in such a forum at least when a topic of NIP came up. Not only is she against NIP, she cannot stand the fact that Ms. Flagger even nurses our child. How about people who are not even mommies yet? Would they be welcome or should there be a separate forum for them as well? How about for IVF mommies or old school parenting styles, Capricorn babies and on and on and on? It would just further splinter the group.

I do find it interesting and demonstrative that though I am not the only one to disagree with this idea, I am the only one who was challenged about my disagreement.

>>>...a sense that it has gotten less safe to post intimacies and fears and weaknesses, because sometimes when people do that lately, they get attacked.<<<

In some ways it is all about perception. If someone questions an idea or post, someone can take it as being personally attacked when the only thing "attacked" was the idea itself and not the person who posted it. There are several instances when someone posts about wanting to giving up nursing and starts asking about formula when someone will chime in "How could you even think of trying formula?" or something to that effect when the only thing they wanted to hear about was formula in the first place and not be told to keep on nursing even if it made them miserable.

As far any other posts for mom's only. A quick check of the thread in question only shows mom's (and a few mom's to be) were the only people who responded. You cannot post something on a public website and then say who can and who cannot read it. It becomes in the public domain. And do you honestly think that if I posted something that said Men Only, women do not read, there would be zero women who read it?

The fact remains that you should never post something on the internet that you wouldn't say in person. You have no idea who is responding or if what they say is true. I have no way if someone says they are an obstetrician or pediatrician if they really are. I have no way of knowing if someone who says they have a PhD. really does.

Sometimes you just have to leave your emotions at the door or on the keyboard and put on some thick skin. Words on a computer screen convey no emotion like the spoken word or being able to read body language along with inflection to really understand what someone means or says.

How would you like to find out if there were posts made about you by name in a forum that you had no access to and could not defend yourself? It has happened to me and, because of certain friends, what was said was passed on to me. Not a thing you can do about it, but it still doesn't make you pleased to find out that it had happened. It certainly could happen here in a mommy or daddy only forum.