Mommy's Own and Daddy's Own

[Rachels]

"I do find it interesting and demonstrative that though I am not the only one to disagree with this idea, I am the only one who was challenged about my disagreement."

Again, I don't think it's just the disagreement that people are responding to. I don't think you always make a distinction between attacking an idea and attacking a person. That has started to have a cumulative effect. There are times that I see you post an idea that I might not agree with, and it doesn't bug me at all-- much like happens with many people when we're of different minds about something. But when you come on like gangbusters and name-call and jab and put specific people down and categorize into the good people and the bad, it is hard to read it just as a differing idea. I'm not clear if you really don't see that or have any awareness of when you do it.

I do think you had some good points here, and I don't blame you for not wanting to be left out. But I also understand the desire for some assurance that when people post sensitive things, you'll be careful how you say what you say.


-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[flagger]

> But I also understand the
>desire for some assurance that when people post sensitive
>things, you'll be careful how you say what you say.

So this becomes "we want a forum that keeps Flagger out". Fine, you want that. Consider it done. I have my own forum and my old child to worry about and not worry about hurting someone's feelings. It works both ways and I can point to threads where I have posted and been attacked with no thought or choice of words. One member did it and even got rated for it.

I will not choose my words to suit someone's feelings. I speak my mind how I see fit as does everyone else. Nowhere in the last thread locked was the person questioned by me for NIP. This is popular idea for a very few. The vast majority posting in this thread thinks it is a BAD IDEA to have separate forums.

I said it before and will say it again. It is about control and wanting to squash ideas. Refusing to see that there is always another POV even if it is unpopular. If you don't like what is posted, ignore it and move on. No one forces anyone to read a thread. No one forces anyone to respond. There is a big difference between attacking someone's ideas and attacking someone personally. I am not sure you and others can see the difference. I sure can.

[lisams]

Yes! A good example (and I'm only bringing this up for example - don't want to start another debate) is the back to sleep posting you made many months ago. If I remember right, you were upset with the back to sleep campaign and mentioned them being the Back To Sleep Nazis. Now I can only guess that the reason you got a different reaction than the many other people here who have also mentioned they put their babies to sleep on their tummy is the way you came across. I mean, you kind of got a strong reaction because your original post was pretty strong, KWIM? I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad thing, I'm just saying that you shouldn't be too surprised at people's reaction. I sure hope you don't think people are picking on you.

Lisa

[Rachels]

Well, picking is NOT my intent, and I didn't bring this whole thing up to begin with. I'm trying to respond to your confusion about why you keep being called to task for things. That's all.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

[flagger]

>If I remember right, you were upset with the back to sleep campaign and mentioned them being the Back To Sleep Nazis. Now I can only guess that
>the reason you got a different reaction than the many other
>people here who have also mentioned they put their babies to
>sleep on their tummy is the way you came across. I mean, you
>kind of got a strong reaction because your original post was
>pretty strong, KWIM? I'm not saying it's necessarily a bad
>thing, I'm just saying that you shouldn't be too surprised at
>people's reaction.

No it would be like venting against XXX Company and having someone who strongly believes in that company and coming to defend them. It was not a vent against a certain member. It was a vent against someone outside of the community who chose to send an unwanted literature by email because of a picture of Cocoa sleeping on her tummy they had seen on the website. Big difference between then that and the sorts of things said against me personally by participants in that thread. By the way, at five months + my daughter sleeps great through the night on her tummy. All that sleep training we have done has been a good thing for all three of us. I certainly feel vindicated in my "old school" style of parenting.

When I posted about the positive BF experience Ms. Flagger and Cocoa were having, someone later remarked that I was bragging. It is a double standard and you know it. Don't post something and not expect a response. Don't then get upset if it is not the response you wanted or the support you needed. The personal attacks and trashing of character comes both from male and female members. It is not just localized to one sex or the other. In fact it was a female who not only made a personal attack against me but did it against Ms. Flagger as well. This coward who couldn't respond on the issues chose instead to make comments based on personal appearance.

[flagger]

>Well, picking is NOT my intent, and I didn't bring this whole
>thing up to begin with. I'm trying to respond to your
>confusion about why you keep being called to task for things.
>That's all.

This is a moot point anyway for you as far as I can see, because you ate crow and said this was a bad idea. So why bother to even keep responding? There are certainly others in this thread who also think it is a bad idea as well.

[sntm]

ugh. just for the record (and then i swear i will stop even reading this post),

1. i would never read something marked "dads only." again, maybe that is just me, but i feel that would be disrespectful. and maybe i overreacted to flagger's posting that he had read it, but to me that was almost worse than some stranger because i "knew" him and he "knew" me, and i would not have expected that from someone i know and am friendly with. it's like when my white coat was stolen from the icu and the most hurtful thing (next to loss of an expensive stethoscope) was that it had to be somebody i knew because no random person was allowed back there. of course, that story could all be part of my clever ruse to convince you that i really am a doctor...(weak attempt at humor.)

2. i agree that reactions to things that flagger has posted have been harsher on average than responses to other people. but i also think that the tone of the original posts tends to get at people more. i don't think it is because he is male, unless the fact that he is male leads him to post in a different style (the whole men are from mars argument). i can think of one response i made that i regret, but honestly, it was because i thought he was joking in the original post. for what it's worth, i am sorry for that, though.

3. i think we all need to take our own advice. we need to stop explaining ourselves (me too, and i will stop after this). we all need to ignore things and move on. we need to stop taking things so personally (and that goes for everyone!) we all need to be respectful of other people. we need to consider people's feelings when we post and not confuse honesty with discourtesy. we need to stop trying to get the last word. we need to stop accusing others of things we ourselves do. man, i feel like i'm writing the mission statement from jerry maguire.

okay. i'm going to go nurse my insomnia with some productive work. i really hope that something i've said will mean something to someone.




shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03

[lisams]

To be totally honest, I really don't know what you're talking about (the BFing/personal appearance part) - I must have missed that. I respect your parenting style and am glad it works for you (I'm a big fan of "if it ain't broken, don't fix it" :)). I'm sorry you feel there is a double standard - whether there is or not appears to be a personal view of words exchanged. I'm sorry you have been hurt.

Lisa

PS Where's that cute avatar of Cocoa? I miss that cute smile!

[houseof3boys]

Come on you guys...it's happening AGAIN.

Let's stop this thread before this continues and continues and continues.

No male/female forums since that would be so bogus anyway. Shannon is a bigger woman than I because I would read it in a heartbeat if it said "No women allowed". Let's not post to something just to be hurtful and try to force your opinion down everyone's throat. No more know-it-all attitudes. How many more people need to leave the boards or go on hiatus before we realize that it is this kind of thread that does it? What happened to the peaceful happy place we all remember and long for again?

Geez. White flag is coming out now (with some type of ceremonial music playing). :)

[flagger]

It all comes down to the differences between men and women and how they communicate and how they perceive what is said or in this case written:

A man cooks dinner for a women and she asks, "Where did you buy the meat?" and he says, "Bob's butcher shop".

A women cooks dinner for a man and he asks, "Where did you buy the meat?" and she says, "Why, what is wrong with it?"