Questions for the CD converts...

[Melanie]

My first question is "tell me why I should CD?" (aside from the ecological reasons). I added up how much we spend on disp. monthly, and I need an arsenal of reasons for Dh.

Second - where is a good website that explains (possibly with photos) the different 'techniques' and 'how-tos' of modern CDing? I've been searching all over, and reading about different brands (it seems to be such a subjective thing that I'll be lucky if I pick the right ones on the first or second try), but not about just how you do it! I get the acronyms, but when do you line and when do you use a CPF and why not always use an AIO? I read the thread on pins, so now I know you don't have to pin! What do you do when your out & about? Do you change with every wet diaper? help!

Oh yes, and thirdly, any brand/type suggestions for an average-sized (not chubby or thin) 23 lb. 13 month old boy?

Thank You...

Mommy to Jonah

[Caroline99]

Some answers. HTH a bit. -- Caroline

1. The articles here: http://punkinbutt.com/ will give you all of the ammunition you need to present your argument for cloth diapers to your husband.

2. The same site also has information on the different types of diapers: http://punkinbutt.com/diaper_types.html The only reason that I can see for not always using an AIO is that they are expensive, but I will let the currently CDing moms answer that one.

[egoldber]

1) As for the why - my reasons are ecological and philosophical. If that's not enough for your DH (it's not for mine), then the Punkinbutt site may help.

2) Here's a site that shows the various folds for using prefolds: http://www.dy-dee.com/html/Folding/folding.html

For general how-to, I like these two sites: http://diapershop.com/questions.htm and http://www.diaperpin.com/howto.asp

Most of your questions here are philosophical. I always use a liner, but not everyone does. You sort of develop a rhythm and your own "system" after awhile. When I pull a diaper from a stack a thousand thoughts go through my head: "is she gonna poop?" (prefold), "am I exhausted?" (AIO), nothing special (ME Onesize and Airflow cover), and "Aw, I haven't used that diaper in awhile" (honestly). CDing is very subjective and what works for one person may not work for you.

There are several reasons not to use AIOs all the time. Cost. Durability since the outer covers on AIOs wear faster when you use AIOs exclusively. Re-sale (because of the durability factor, they wear out). They can be bulky. Some people have leak issues with them. Some people really like folding and pinning prefolds.

When I am going out, I put DD in an AIO with a Joeybunz. That way if I don't get to change her in awhile (3 hours), she's still fine. I keep 2 extra AIOs in the bag (I'm paranoid). In general, I change Sarah when she poops or approximately every 2 hours, just like I did in disposables.

3) My 23 pound average sized 16 month old girl can wear pretty much every diaper I have tried. My preferences are regular (not premium) unbleached prefolds, Kissaluvs (she fits in both a 1 and a 2) and Motherease Onesize and Sandies (large). I have tried a couple of the more expensive WAHM diapers and I don't personally see what the fuss is about. I have more difficulty with finding covers that fit her. I really like Bummis covers (she can wear a medium or large) and Motherease Airflow covers (she wears a medium/large). I am not very fond of Proraps, Bumkins and ME Rikki wraps.

Now, here are some things you didn't ask. :)

At nighttime, I gave in and bought more FuzziBunz to use at night because they are so darned convenient. I have been using FuzziBunz with a prefold and that works great for us. I have 4 (1 medium and 3 large) and that is plenty.

When we travel by car, I use disposables during the car trip, and use cloth when we arrive at the destination. Sorry, I am not dealing with CDs at interstate rest areas. I also used cloth when we went to Disneyworld and plan to when we go to the Caribbean in January. I also use disposables if she has a bout of diarrhea lasting more than one day. I'm not a zealot, but some people are.

HTH,

[corrie]

I had to giggle at the "convert" label...I really always assumed we'd CD (I sure hope it goes well!)

Ok, the "whys" of CD

Well, I think that the environment is a big one. Untreated human waste was not intended to go into landfills. You are supposed to flush poop from disposables (says so right on the package) but nobody does that. In the meantine, waste goes from ladnfills into our waterways and every summer it seems they close more beaches around here due to high e coli and other bacteria levels. Add to that the sheer volume of garbage generated by disposable dipes and that it takes them an extremely long time to decompose without exposure to air/light (I heard today it takes 400 yrs. for a sposie to break down). Then there's all the additional chemicals from the bleaching process and in the diaper itself (that ultra absorbant gel). Actually that brings me to reason #2...

HEALTH There are a lot of chemicals that go into that disposable diaper. The absorbant gel, and things released in the bleaching process. Your child will have their most delicate skin sitting in direct contact with those chemicals 24/7 for YEARS. That can't be good. Additionally, there is some suggestion that boys in particular may suffer later fertility problems as a result of their testicles being kept at too high a temp. in sposies which do not allow for them to "breathe" Of course, a really plasticy cover used in CDing may result in the same problem, but there are breathable covers too, and a loose-fitting cloth diaper beneath a plastic cover may still not get as hot as a tight-fitting, plastic-wrapped sposie (sort of like telling men to wear boxers vs. briefs when ttc).

Then there's the financial factor. Although one certainly can get caught up in the idea of "designer" dipes and spend a fortune on CDs, that is not necesary. A bare-bones system will save a ton of $ especially if you have multiple children. Even a more deluxe system will save over sposies (and moreso with future kids). If you don't use CDs across many kids, you can still sell your diapers and generally get a pretty good return on your investment, especially for more deluxe dipes.

I think the punkinbutt site already mentioned has great diagrams for things like folding. As far as different "techniques" it really seems to be a matter of prference and finding what works best for your child. It seems to me that most people do one or a combo of the following:

1. Prefold diaper and wrap. This can be a diaper trifolded (folded in thirds lengthwise) and placed into a velcro wrap that goes around babe. Alternatively, you can fold the diaper around babe, secure it with either pins or a snappi, and then use either a velcro, snap, or pull-up type wrap. Chinese Prefolds are most often used. Do not use the Gerber ones found at the local Target. Decent PFs will generally need to be found online. Pros-the least expensive route. You don't have to wash the wrap after every use (if not poopy) so you need far fewer covers than dipes. Cons-some people find this is too cumbersome or don't want to mess with folding.

2. Fitted diaper and wrap. Fitted diapers look like sposies essentially, but they are not waterproof. They generally snap or velcro, and will require some type of cover. Pros - middle of the road procewise, no folding. Cons - fitteds take longer to dry than PFs. You have to essentially diaper baby twice. (Once with diaper, once with wrap) so it can be difficult with older babies less patient with changing time.

3. AOIs Just like a sposie. You just put baby in these and voila, diapering done. These usually snap (side or front) or velcro. Pros-convenient and easy to do. Cons-expensive. AOIs take a very long time to dry because they're all one absorbant mass. Some AOIs have a snap-in soaker or something along those lines so you can take the pieces apart for washing/drying to cut drying time.

4. Fuzzi Bunz. These are essentially a class of their own, but other people also make "pocket" dipes. FBs are essentially a waterproof cover with a fleece lining and an opening in the back. You stuff the opening with any absorbant material you want. This is nice because you can customize it based on needs of babe (e.g. more "stuff" for overnights) It is also nice because you can pull the stuffing outfor washing/drying, thus taking less dry time than a fitted or AOI. Usually people stuff these with a combo of PFs and doublers. Pros - totally customizable. Convenient-can "pre-stuff) and then they work just like a sposie (snap on in one step rather than the 2-step fitted/wrap process) Cons-expensive.

Ok, when to line: If the diaper is not already fleece lined, some people add a fleece liner next to baby's skin because fleece pulls wetness away and will therefore keep baby's skin dry and minimize diaper rash. You might also add a doubler to increase absorbancy. Some dublers are fleece-topped so they'll take care of both of these steps.

Some people do always use CPFs. Others find that system to be difficult, or their DH won't do it, or they can never fold the diaper quite right so they get leaks. Many people use CPFs as doublers, burp rags, or to stuff FBs.

Some people do always use AOIs. This can be really expensive though and as mentioned they take a long time to dry. Additionally, the waterproof aspect of the cover may break down faster as people tend to put AOIs in the dryer, but will air dry a cover normally.

You have to help with this next one....do you NOT change every wet diaper? What do you do, leave the baby in a wet sposie (this is not meant to judge by the way. I have no baby yet and haven't used sposies, but do people notmally leave babies in wet sposies for long periods of time?)

Can't make recommendations because I haven't had a chance to try this out yet. All I can say is that for a boy, you might want to put more absorbancy up near the front when folding a PF or adding a doubler.

HTH and good luck to you!

-Corrie

P.S. Jonah is a beautiful name!

[sparkeze]

CDing IS cheaper in the long run, even if you were to buy a lot of fitted diapers and AIOs. Using CPFs and pull-on nylon pants with pins or snappis would probably be the cheapest way to go, although it probably wouldn't convince your DH to go the cloth route if he's used to the convenience of disposables. Of course AIOs are the most convenient, and actually there are a lot of WAHM AIOs where the soaker snaps into the cover so you could take better care of the covers, which would help them last a lot longer. Although some people may argue that snap in soaker AIOs are not REALLY AIOs, I just unsnap them before putting them into the diaper pail, and when they are washed I snap them back together before putting them away. It's really not that inconvenient and I can wash the covers more gently if I want to.

When we started CDing I figured I would go with 75% fitteds and 25% AIOs. Then when we actually started DH and I both agreed that we preferred the AIOs simply because DS won't stay still long enough for a diaper and a cover. But after a couple weeks we got used to it and it's much easier. Now I use fitteds with covers during the day, AIOs when we go out, and Fuzzi Bunz with 3 Joey Bunz for night. When DH changes DS he always grabs an AIO. As far as cost, I spent a LOT of money trying out different products. Right now I have way too many diapers, but there's a big market out there for used diapers so I really don't expect any problems selling the ones I decided not to keep for a pretty fair price. I have found I have preferences for closures, fit, etc. and although I'm still always tempted to try out new stuff, I know what I won't like. For instance, I prefer snaps over aplix and side snaps over front snaps.

I decided to CD when I thought a lot more about the stuff in disposables rubbing against DS's bottom. Personally, I would prefer a cloth diaper over a paper one! (If I was the one in them, of course!) Also, I'm not sure about the answer to this one, but I think it would be toxic if a baby ate chunks of a disposable...so I don't want to put it on his cute butt! Also, it's nice to not have to run to the store if I'm running out of disposables, and I like to change DS frequently so it's not such a waste to do so. I changed DS every 2 hours with disposables and ever 1.5-2 hours with cloth. I don't change him as soon as he's wet, although some people do.

With your DS being 13 mo, maybe you should try out one size diapers first. Are you planning to have more babies? If so, that would be the most economical. You could use the same diapers until your DS is potty-trained, then keep them around for the next one. There are onesize AIOs too. Some onesize diapers I would recommend are ManyDucks, Luke's Drawers One Size Wonders, Motherease, and Cuddlebuns. A lot of people rave about SOS onesize too, but I haven't gotten one, yet! For onesize AIOs I would recommend ManyDucks, Luke's Drawers All-in-Wonders, and Cuddlebuns. A lot of WAHMs are having holiday specials right around now, such as free shipping, etc, so you could use that as an excuse to try a couple different ones out! :) At 23 lbs though you could probably buy one set of diapers (that is, if you're going to use fitteds or AIOs) that will last you through potty-training. Covers you may have to go through 2 sizes though.

Also, if you can sew, you can make your own diapers!

I hope something was useful...

Mommy to Matthew 4/5/2002

[egoldber]

I forgot. This site is the FAQ on the ParentsPlace Diapering board (which is really great).

http://diapering.tripod.com/index.html

One of the links shows pix of babies/toddlers wearing many of the diapers which I found helpful.

HTH,

[Melanie]

Thank you everyone that is some great information...I'll probably have a bunch more questions, though!

Just to clarify, it's not that I don't care about the environmental concerns, just that my Dh is more like Beths.

>>You have to help with this next one....do you NOT change every wet diaper?
No I don't. With a disposable I don't even know when he's wet. He generates very little urine each time, occasionally I will think it's been quite a while and change him and the diaper is scarcely wet. They soak it up so much that he wouldn't know, and he detests diaper changes. So I'm more on a clock schedule, unless of course there's poop. Plus, I don't change him at night as long as he's sleeping straight.

Okay, more questions:
-How do CD's work for BF poops? Ds is just getting into food, so most of his poops are still BF. It's not like you can just empty them into the toilet - what do you do?
-So a "fitted" takes the place of a "CPF", in that they're both just absorbant material and you need something waterproof (a cover?) over them?
-How can a one-size diaper possibly work? I mean, a 10 lb. baby is so different from a 25 lb.?
-Many mention reselling diapers...is that a good way to buy at first?

Again-thank you so very much!


Mommy to Jonah

[etwahl]

Oh no!!! One more thing for me to compulsively research :(

I have to admit that up until today, I have avoided every possible post on cloth diapering...why? Because it never even occured to me as something I would ever consider. Don't know why, just had visions of messy, stinky, difficult, and archaic MESS! And oh yeah, I forgot to mention my fear of diaper leaks, yuck!!!!

But in doing some reading today of these posts and some of the sites, I see that's not necessarily the case, not to mention the health benefits to the baby, environment benefits, cost savings, etc. So I sent that punkinbutt site to DH and he said he thinks I should look into it. Yikes! More research. Actually, it's not the research so much that scares me, it the huge array of choices that are out there. And I tend to be an extremist in everything I do, and so far that pattern is continuing with the baby gear we have bought and continue to look at. So it scares me a little that I'll end up spending MORE than the cost of disposables (not really, but even if I did, the other benefits that outweight cost could justify it alone, right?)

Anyway, am really glad to see that there is SO much information on this board about cloth diapering. I have to say I hate other message boards and never go to them. This is the only one I've ever used or liked.

Anyway, I guess it's time to start doing my homework.

By the way, it sounds like people recommend having a diaper service for the first month. How do you go about finding a good one? Looking in the yellow pages? I'm in San Diego, so if anyone has experience with a good local company, that would be great.

Tammy,
Mom-to-be Mar 8, 2003!

[mama2be]

Tammy,

Your post and thought process sounds EXACTLY I mean EXACTLY like mine was about 2-3weeks ago...I had never ever read a CD post, never even thought about it and here I am and can honestly say I don't think I've ever surfed the net more on one item in my life...

Run for your life!!!.... (just joking)...I am actually having a lot of fun with the research, the questions and the insights from those who are doing it. I can offer no advice, but am also going to try it :)

These gals are a great resource!!!! Lucky you that DH is saying "check it out"...STeve is always so supportive but I think inside he is giggling at me and thinking this is my facination "du jour"...yet it's still my facination so he might be starting to realize. :)

[egoldber]

-How do CD's work for BF poops?

I can't answer from experience, since I started CDs at 14 months. But with poop there are two schools. There is the "scrape, dunk, and swish" school and the "that's why they made washing machines" school. Many people just throw bf poopie diapers in the pail and wash away. That is probably what I would do. I use a liner, but the liner doesnt always catch everything and sometimes she has less solid poops. I flush away what the liner catches and just throw the diaper (with poop bits) in the pail and wash that way. It seems to work fine and no bits are in my washer. :)

-So a "fitted" takes the place of a "CPF", in that they're both just absorbant material and you need something waterproof (a cover?) over them?

Exactly

-How can a one-size diaper possibly work? I mean, a 10 lb. baby is so different from a 25 lb.?

Most one size have a fold down system so that there are several sets of snaps. You can see a diagram and a video at the Motherease site as an example. http://www.motherease.com/care.html

-Many mention reselling diapers...is that a good way to buy at first?

This can be a great way if you have time and patience. Occasionally you can find someone with a practically brand new diaper with a "Buy It Now" at a really great price. But in general, I have found that used diapers tend to go for 60-80% of their new retail price, with the "big names" going for closer to the 80%. I have seen used diapers on Ebay go for current retail!!! I decided I would rather not hassle with used and just bought new. With prefolds, personally, since they are so cheap, I didn't even consider used. With buying used, alsways factor in shipping, since many of the great WAHM sites have very low or free shipping.

HTH,