mom and me vs kangaroo korner AFP

[shevam]

Can anyone tell me the differences between the mom and me AF/HP and the kangaroo korner AFP? I love my KKAFP! But I am liking some of the colors of the mom and me. Is is worth it or should I wait until some more colors of the KKAFP come out?

Thanks!
Sheva

[zen_bliss]

i like them both. i just got the new design of the mom n me and it fast became the first one i reach for! the fleece is so snuggly, but often just gets too warm here in so. cal; on those days, the hemp feels like it lets her breathe better. when she fusses, getting down in the pouch calms her and puts her to sleep, but with both our bodies' heat she sweats like mad in the fleece. they are both very well made, but i really love that the mom n me has a jean stitch reinforcement at the middle seam; the single seam always made me a little uneasy. i think the M&MC 'rails' don't 'cut 'into the legs on the hip carry as much as the binding on the KKAFP. jen is wonderful to work with and i can say on good authority that she has near infinite patience because she survived me waffling on first my custom color and then deciding the coordinating thread finish! so this doesn't really help i guess -- because they're both nice!

[Calmegja]

You should check the archives here, because there is a design issue between the two pouches, and Tanya from KK explains what happened...

[Momof3Labs]

Do you mean the post where Tanya was all mad at Jen from Mom & Me because she designed a similar (but still different) product? That happens all the time - people rarely start from scratch when they design a new product. Why does that create a design "issue"? To me, it is just an "issue" between Tanya and Jen, and someone buying an adjustable pouch should pick the one that they like best or works best for them.

[Calmegja]

The issue was that in auctions, Jen from Mom and Me was using pictures of the AFP with the tag clearly showing that it was from KKAFP. She was representing the product for sale with a picture of Tanya's work/design, and even acknowledged this for awhile on her website.

That was the design issue, and I found it to be a little more striking than the usual someone has a good idea, so let's copy it type of issue, since the new item was being sold with the images of the original from Tanya's business, tag in view.

But that's just my opinion. ;-)

[Momof3Labs]

Jessica, I guess that my feeling on this is that there are two sides to every story, and we only got Tanya's side. It doesn't seem fair to Jen to judge her based on Tanya's side of the story, and this doesn't seem to me like an appropriate forum for that whole debate anyways. I've dealt with Jen many times and each and every time, her customer service has been impeccable, and the quality of her items is always top notch.

Besides, I don't think that someone should buy from Tanya because Jen did something "bad" (which we can't be certain of). Buy from Tanya because Kangaroo Korner has something good to offer or buy from Jen because Mom & Me Creations has something good to offer.

[heidi_timms]

I just got my Mom-and-me hemp pouch in the mail yesterday and I love it already. Mine is a pretty lilac color and DD was so comfy in it today at a picnic! I haven't tried a KKAFP-I'm a newbie to the sling world. I had a ton of questions and Jen was great to work with.

~Heidi
Mom to Kailey Ashlin
4/27/03

[Calmegja]

I completely agree.

And I've heard that Jen has great customer service, and I suppose I should just keep my mouth shut, but when I read the story, and the fact that she used photos of someone else's work product in her sales, that bothered me. I remember when I was looking for my first pouch, the blurb Jen had on her website at the time, with regards to Tanya. It makes me lean towards Tanya.

You are correct, though, there are two sides to every story. I guess my experience of working with Tanya on 4 slings/pouches has left me massively prejudiced in her favor, so I should just step out of this...

And you are also right that someone should absolutely choose the pouch that works the best for them. ;-)

[zen_bliss]

to qualify what i am about to say: i have two pouches from each company -- one 'old design' hemp pouch, one new, 2 AFPs (one to fit DH), one ACP. i have had pleasant follow up customer service issues from both; i like both WAHMs; i give them both hats off for what their products do for all of us and for our babes.

that said, i feel like i also have to pipe in on this. it's simply not necessary to make this a 'picking sides' issue. they are in fact, quite different in materials, design, & construction, sufficiently so there's no way one is pillaging sales from the other. they are similarly priced, so there's not an issue of price undercutting. they fit different needs. how about some perspective: do you think ME should be the only snap diapers allowed on the market? should graco be the only stroller available? should we suffer with only the option of the ill-fitting nojo ring sling? only a ford automobile? the adjustable pouch is a natural evolution of the simple pouch. the hemp pouch is a variation on the adjustable pouch. the new design is an evolution of the older design. KWIM?

it is not right that there's been such unwarranted nastiness sent toward jen based on second-hand information. none of us really know the real story, and like any dispute, maybe the firsthand parties don't have real clarity anymore either. did any of the users here actually SEE jen using the KK pouch in her advertising? she's not doing it now. and, honestly, i just don't buy the story that she ever did. i came across her on eBay, i guess it was when she was starting out, she had a pic of herself in the hemp pouch for sale on the auction page and if i recall correctly, she was wearing the KK pouch further down in the 'about me' auction info. the M&MC website in fact gives tanya props up for how using a pouch "changed her life".

when i was pregnant and shopping for a pouch i wanted something breathable, ideally hemp, because it it HOT here. way back when, i asked tanya if she'd be offering lighter-weight natural fabrics and she explained the challenges in designing those. she didn't offer what i needed. period. so i looked elsewhere and was grateful to find what i was looking for. and, i did buy a KKAFP, and later, a KKACP, because those fit other needs. i appreciate that tanya has been brutally frank about the shortcomings of the new cotton pouch. it's useful in a different way from the fleece. and the hemp is useful in different ways from either of those. bottom line, my buying a hemp pouch did not cost KK a sale.

so, i'll speak up for the underdog when it looks like signs of a bigger business trying to steamroll a small one. the M&MC customer service is exceptional, the 'new' redesign of the hemp pouch addressed every quibble i had (even without being able to precisely put my finger on some of what it was i didn't like) with both the older hemp, and with the KK pouches i have. i am delighted by it, and happy to get the word out on it because it is so different from the old style, which i had posted lukewarm reviews about before.

i recommend picking the fabric, fit, & design that most fits your needs and skipping the unreliably reported backstory.

so again, here's my quick rundown, what i think about when i am grabbing one:
KKACP -- easiest in & out, chic fabric offerings, folds smallest in dipe bag, ideal for quick errands; downsides: it will cut into the shoulder & babe's legs after a short time, non-stretchy fabric keeps a 'bubble' shape that does not mold to baby for snuggling
KKAFP -- easy in & out, one row of snaps is easiest to re-snap quickly, snuggly, additional layer of warmth in cool weather, 'just right' stretch memory. downsides: pilling over time (worse on some colors than others), unbearably hot in sun, binding can cut into legs after a while, huge shoulder coverage interferes with movement (folding can help)
M&MC hemp -- breathable & cooler than fleece, trimmest & most comfortable shoulder, reinforced center seam, handmade & individually customised with dye & thread colors, soft rails offer support & do not cut into legs. good all-purpose pouch. downsides: correct sizing is important because of fabric stretch (go smaller than you think), jersey can look too casual (JMO; also depending on dye color)

[Calmegja]

Okay.

I do have a problem with it but I said that upfront.

I never said that I had a problem with someone else having a fleece pouch. I gave my specifics on why I had a problem with the two, and having said that, I then volunteered that I'm sure I'm biased. I'm curious as to what else I'm supposed to say.

Again, though, by Zen's last post, in that scenario, it means that Tanya is simply making stuff up about MMC, which seems like an odd business strategy, especially because then Jen would have jumped in at some point, and denied it, or shown proof otherwise, correct? Tanya's a businesswoman, with a reputation to protect. Why, exactly, would she make something like that up?

And lest this turn into FB vs. Happy Heiny pocket diaper struggle redux, it's not an issue of the big gun stomping on the little one. I also stated it's not the concept that I have a problem with. It's a misrepresentation of one's product that I have an issue with, but apparently, I'm just picking too much on that. I can acccept that.

Anyways, I'll back off. This thread went too far afield, and I apologize for that.