Five Reasons to Stop Saying "Good Job!"

[lizajane]

hmm. i am trying to figure out how to participate in the conversation at hand in a productive way. but truly, i am at a loss for words.

seriously? don't tell you kids you are proud of them? SERIOUSLY????????

i think this article is VERY bizarre.

of course, my parents praised me for a job well done and i praise my sons for things that i think are actually well done. i do think their art is beautiful. i do think schuyler is a fast runner. i do think dylan is a good little copycat helper. i can't seem to figure out why it is a problem to say, "i like the way you put your toys away."

forgive me. i guess i am a woman who loves too much.

[bisous]

Hmm. I found this article really interesting. I'm trying to find the parts of it that apply to my parenting philosophy. I tend to be a really gushy, snuggly, praise happy mama! I do think that sometimes I use praise that is too oblique to be truly effective and may even be negative. "Beautiful painting" starts to sound insincere the umpteenth time. I also agree that by praising things like paintings or every single thing that they do it does insert the parent into the equation. However, I think that there are aspects of life that I want to be part of the picture. I personally don't have a problem with my child understanding that mommy expects him to eat neatly, clean up his toys, treat others kindly etc. In some areas I really feel like my way is the best way although I'm sure that some parents will disagree with this philosophy. Other areas, such as artistic ability, physical prowess, his observation of nature I think that I will try the author's suggestions for deep involvement by asking questions about the content rather than offering analysis and generic praise. Thanks for the read!

[maestramommy]

I've read Alfie Kohn before, but in the context of the classroom. I think that as with any other philosophy, you really have to put it in perspective, and not analyze it to death. I always praise Dora when she does something new (like feed herself with a fork, or doing a new trick) because hey! I want her to do it again! But like one of the pps, I grew up in an Asian household, and actually we received a lot more negative feedback than praise, so think the opposite can be equally damaging.

One thing I learned when I was teaching is that you don't praise a kid unless there's something to really praise. That is (I taught orchestra) you don't tell kids they sound great when they don't. Because deep down they know how they sound, and after a while your words don't mean anything. What would do is offer suggestions, and I would tell them that it sounded much better and exactly why.

However, as the article points out (briefly) with infants through preschool I think praise is a good thing and can help teach kids what is desirable behavior, in the cut and dried sense that is. I do like the alternatives he offered. But I'm still gonna praise Dora when she does something cool!

[kaylinsmommy2]

Very long. :)

I'm not knowledgable about the other points, but in regards to #5 in the article, I've read quite a few studies suggesting that praise can cause children to be less motivated in a task. The reason has a lot to do with the development of achivement motivation. It's complicated and I don't want to get into it too much, but here's the short version (I have references for all of this stuff, but you could also google Carol Dweck - she's one of the main researchers on achievement motivation):


1) People who think of intelligence as stable (that, while you can always learn new things, you cannot change how fundmentally smart you really are) are more likely to give up when faced with failure, not try new things, and not like risking making errors.

2) People who think of intelligence as flexible (that you can work really hard and change your intelligence) are less likely to give up when faced with failure, etc..

3) This is true of even very young kids, such as kindergarten children. Preschool children even have started making strong beliefs about intelligence, too.

So, in response to praise, there may be 2 problems:
1) Children are linking performance with high achievement, which is associated with beliefs that intelligence is stable.

2) Praise for good performance may teach children that failure is a stable trait - that intelligence (or failure) is stable. Such that, when children are not given praise on something, they think that it means that they have failed.

What to do instead: talk about effort. Praising effort is linked to beliefs about intelligence as flexible - that hard work can change outcomes/performance.

That said, I praise Kaylin all the time for performance (good job). It comes naturally. I also think that Alfie Kohn might be more extremist then I would like (and doesn't have any emirical/scientific articles). I don't think that praise is manipulative in a bad way.

But I do conciously think about how to praise effort and trials or how to give her practice at learning from mistakes. In teaching, a great way to teach this is to have a student to do drafts of their term papers. Giving them a second chance to get it right.

Here's the original reference on this praise and achievement motivation work.

Mueller & Dweck (1998). Praise for intelligence can undermine children's motivation and performance. Journal of Personality and Social Psychology, 75, 33-52.

Abstract:
Praise for ability is commonly considered to have beneficial effects on motivation. Contrary to this popular belief, six studies demonstrated that praise for intelligence had more negative consequences for students' achievement motivation than praise for effort. Fifth graders praised for intelligence were found to care more about performance goals relative to learning goals than children praised for effort. After failure, they also displayed less task persistence, less task enjoyment, more low-ability attributions, and worse task performance than children praised for effort. Finally, children praised for intelligence described it as a fixed trait more than children praised for hard work, who believed it to be subject to improvement. These findings have important implications for how achievement is best encouraged, as well as for more theoretical issues, such as the potential cost of performance goals and the socialization of contingent self-worth. (PsycINFO Database Record (c) 2006 APA, all rights reserved) (journal abstract)

I have the full text pdf of that paper if you email me, I can send it to you (that's legal, right?). There are other articles, too.

Caroline
mommy to Kaylin 6/5/04
http://tickers.baby-gaga.com/t/bunbunadb20040605_-9_Kaylin+is+now.png[/img][/url]

and one on the way, due 2/26/07

[MarisaSF]

Great to have your insight, Caroline. Thanks!

[megs4413]

a bunch of useless gobbledy-gook IMO. I see the pride and sense of accomplishment that fills DD when I praise her for a new skill. She claps her little hands together and says, "YAY!". I certainly don't praise her for eating her food or cleaning up her toys those behaviors are expected of her. But I do say "thank you for helping clean up." or "thank you for obeying." When she does something cool or new, though, like when she gets her colors right ("what color is your shirt? can you find the red ball?") I say "YOU GOT IT!" and she swells up with joy....i will keep doing this because it feels right. I can't imagine trying to be robotic in my responses and interactions with DD....i don't have time to think about wording things in the way a psychologist would most like me to word them. I interact with DD on a natural level...i am with her, who i really am as a mom...and i'm a praiser I guess!

I may be completely misunderstanding the article, but as I said....it was complete psychobabble nonesense to me and I really didn't understand it that well to begin with....

[lisams]

I'm pretty much in the "all things in moderation" camp. I know I always like a little pat on the back once in a while, I'm sure kids do too. But, I do know that it can easily be overdone, too vague and made to be kind of "empty praise". I'm guilty of that, but I try to work on it. I try to be specific, for example "You shared your favorite pony with your friend today!" instead of "good sharing". It's more reflecting what I see her doing instead of judging it. I just feel like it's a good feeling when you know someone is noticing your effort. Kind of like when DH notices I worked extra hard at a meal or got a haircut, etc.

I like to read these kinds of articles because I almost always walk away with at least one good point to think about.

[Saartje]

Thanks, Caroline. I appreciate your post, both for your opinions and for the tips on where to find more information. The lack of citations in the original article was bothering me.

[ellies mom]

Saying something like "You got it" or "Wow, you did it" isn't the type of praise he is talking about. Actually, it is the type of thing he thinks is ok because you are simply making an observation and allowing your child to attach her own value to what she did. Which is the swelling up with joy that you mentioned. He also thinks that saying something like "Thanks for helping me clean, that made things easier for me" is something that is good to say because it places the focus on the action and how it effects others. What he thinks should be avoided are statements like "you are a good helper" because that is placing the "value" onto the person.

I've read the book the article comes from. It is a really good book in the sense that it gives you a different set of lenses to look through but it definately takes some time to internalize.

[Raidra]

I like Alfie Kohn, I've read Unconditional Parenting and agree with a lot of what he says (we don't do time-outs or other punishments like that, nor do we do sticker charts to encourage good behavior), but I can't fully believe in his ideas about praise being bad.

I do make a lot of effort to encourage Colwyn's motivation to be intrinsic. Instead of saying, "You're a good boy for picking up" I say, "Thank you so much for helping me! Now we have more time to play" -- but that comes naturally to me. I really try hard not to say good boy, but I do say good job, you're being a great helper right now (for some reason, this seems different to me than you are a good helper). But for the most part I don't have to think about it.

But I am head over heels in love with my boys, and I get excited when they do something new or cute or funny. And I share that with them. I don't praise them for things I don't have strong feelings towards (eating, doing routine things, etc).. but don't you think that if Colwyn did something neat, and I stifled my reaction, that he'd be able to tell? And what would that show him?

I'm not at all about conforming, so don't take this the wrong way.. but there is a LOT of praise in our society. If my kids are receiving praise from everyone but me.. again, what does that show them? I don't lie to them, but I do show lots of enthusiasm when they've done well. And yes, if Colwyn is drawing circles really well, I'll tell him that they look great. If he's just doing scribbles, I probably don't comment as much about it. That's because he has to try harder at the circles, and I'm proud of him for learning new things. When he was first learning to scribble, I praised him for that, but now he does it well and I don't think he needs reinforcement for that.