Autism, etc.

[mik8]

Out of curiousity, if you don't mind my asking, what field in science are you? My husband's a scientist too, specifically molecular geneticist but is now focusing on Immunology research. I have my own views on vaccines but I'd rather keep it to myself. It's good though to hear 2 sides of the coins.

[starrynight]

I forgot to add all this in my earlier post.

Prevnar made Daria very fussy for almost a week although her other shots didn't, that is one of the reasons I'm avoiding it in Eliza. I for some reason never though I could refuse it in my first 2 kids. Probably because the docs said it was required for school and at the time I wasn't researching anything.

I later found something about prevnar could lead to antibiotic resistant meningitis and ear infections. And some other article that said something along the lines of menengitis shots cause less natural immunity and more mutant strains of the virus, along with mutant streph throat. Pretty much it said that we all have natural occuring meningitis, streph etc in the flora of our throats but a normal immune system attacks it before we actually get the full blown illness but if we get vaccines like prevnar our bodies only know how to fight the strain that was included in the vaccine and our immune system can't work as well to fight various strains. There was something about the hib shot mentioned also but I can't recall it all now. I will try and find the link again.

I'm still really confused about all this! Sometimes I find links that say "this is good and that is bad" but then I find out it's an article that is 5 years old or something and then I wonder the revelance now since vaccines are always changing.

I found out if I want Eliza to get the hib shot then she gets hepb also since they only offer a combivax grrr. So either I have to switch peds now and then again in the coming year when we move, delay the hib shot totally or allow the combivax.

[Melanie]

Really? How Odd...I'm pretty sure our HiB was not combo as our ped. knows our concerns and is supportive (despite the recent rise in pro-vax articles taped around the office).

[mrmansmom]

I found several articles that were pretty interesting about hib and the risk factors. Two published in the Journal of Pediatrics in 85 and 86 were about risk factors (daycare was #1). Two others were in the Journal of Epidemiology (published in 97 and 99) and were about the protective effect of breastfeeding on hib. Maternal antibodies found in breast milk are very significant in protecting children from hib, and the protective effects are seen through childhood (even 5 to 10 years later). For each additional week that a child is breastfed, the risk of hib meningitis decreases.

Do you have any information about the hib vaccines? I have heard that they're not too effective and they cause a decline in the child's antibody levels following the vaccination.

[Melanie]

I actually don't have any info now, we did research at the time, but it was quite a while ago.

Good to know my son is protected anyway since he's breastfed. =)

[starrynight]

I found it odd also, unless they have changed things and the person on the phone I spoke with didn't know it. I will ask the doctor herself if they offer a non combined hib vax if I still decide to give it to her, I have a few more days to research before her appointment. :) I hate being on the fence about this!

And you would know if the vax was a combined one or not, it is called combivax or recombivax and if you have a immunization book or record it will say hib/hepb combivax instead of just HiB.

[Fairy]

I'm reading these posts much later than they were originally presented. However, I read in another post by you that you were going to give no vaccines at all. I mean no disrespect, but I think it's very irresponsible of any parent not to vaccinate their child at all. Whether you do Hep B at birth or wait till their older, or separarate the MMR or do vaccines without Thimerasol or whatever -- vaccines SHOULD be given. Read all the articles in the glorified advertisements we all call parenting magazines that you like. There is no reputable, accreddited medical organization that has cited vaccinations with Autism. Period. End of story. It is difficult if not impossible to prove a negative. Show me proof of the positive -- that MMR causes Autism -- and I will sit up and listen. Show me proof that other vaccines cause more harm than good. I will sit up and listen. Until then, I pray that the children of people who do not vaccinate do not end up with horrible illnesses that doctors can't even diagnose quickly anymore, cuz they're rare. Except, of course, in the child that's unvaccinated.

Ugh!

[Melanie]

"Period. End of story"

Wow, I guess that is it then. No point in discussing it.

"Show me proof that other vaccines cause more harm than good."

This varies from child to child. Do a google on vaccines and you will find plenty of stories where the vaccine DID do more harm than good to a child.


"Until then, I pray that the children of people who do not vaccinate do not end up with horrible illnesses that doctors can't even diagnose quickly anymore, cuz they're rare. Except, of course, in the child that's unvaccinated."

Your post is all your opinion, and that is fine, but it is pretty brazen of you to go jamming it down people's throats as if *it* is fact.

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[lobsangdibbler]

I started this entire thing. My son is now 9 months old, is healthy, vaccinated (or in the process rather). My argument is not that children should go unvaccinated (and being breastfed only protects children - nominally - against diseases for which the mother is already immune - not those for which she is simply vaccinated). More to the point, there is now a definitive study showing NO connection between austism and the MMR vaccine. However, there are reasons for a parent to be well-informed about when a child has vaccines and which ones. For example, there was a PREVNAR shortage. It is supposedly fixed. However, one of the project managers for the drug makes the following accusation:

former Wyeth manufacturing manager Mark Livingston has filed a lawsuit against the company and two employees, saying that in its drive to get Prevnar to the market, Wyeth cut production corners that violate Food and Drug Administration (FDA) rules and which could leave the vaccine vulnerable to problems with quality control. Livingston brought up his concerns at an FDA meeting in July 2003, but he said that because he had not heard any development from the agency since that time, he would go ahead with a civil lawsuit to bring more attention to the matter, claiming that Wyeth's actions amount to fraud against its shareholders by not revealing problems with Prevnar production.

<see http://www.immunizationinfo.org/pressroom/newsbriefs_detail.cfv?id=9835>

So one needs to make sure one is aware of what is happening. The drug companies are NOT your friends. They are businesses out to market as many profitable products as possible. They spend more on advertising than they do R&D. This doesn't mean they don't make good and life saving vaccines and other drugs, but you can't just believe them on these things. Moreover, your pediatrician may or may not just follow standard practice with or without doing the appropriate reading/research etc. Like schooling, it is the parents' responsibility to be informed and make INTELLIGENT judgments. This means deciding when and which vaccines to give. Many are proven and save lives. If a parent doesn't want to give any, they better justify it with careful research. Likewise for a parent that gives them all in the standard schedule to their child. They should know the different issues, etc.

What I don't like is the standard pediatrician line of "vaccines are good. There are no problems. Follow the standard schedule." I equally don't like the reactionary parent "vaccines are evil, they do no good. besides my kid is safe."

[Melanie]

Wow, that is frightening though not altogether surprising. Consumer Reports did a pretty balanced article on vaccines while I was pregnant (2001) that impacted me the most. It profiled a child who caught Polio from the oral vaccine, and revealed the existance of www.vaers.org to me (which the existance of, alone, frightens me; forget about their spreadsheets showing SIDs cases after vaccinating). Also it discussed how the vaccines are not all that well-tested before they hit the market, because for one, who wants to use their child as a guinea pig for a vaccine? No one. So the masses are used for trial & error instead.

We did not do Prevnar b/c I felt, at the time, it was "too new." Lately I'd been wondering if I should rethink it now that it is about 4 years old. I am glad to read that article before deciding. Thank You.

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