Doc says Ferber method to sleep

[sadie427]

For what it's worth--we did "ferberize" Sammy at around 4 1/2 months, at the recommendation of his doctor. BUT (and this is a big but) the situation was pretty different. Sammy clearly could self-soothe, and had been able to get himself to sleep on his own a few times at around 3 months. He also had a few weeks of only 2 wakings during the night. Then my husband started rocking him to sleep, and Sammy started waking up every 1 1/2 hours all night. I let this go for almost a month, nursing him every time, so I was pretty sure that he wasn't teething or sick (he also kept his normal nursing schedule during the day.) So we did do the Ferber method, and I was glad we did. It took 3 nights--each time we checked him and talked to him every 5, then 10, then 15 minutes. First night an hour total, second night 1/2 hour, third night 10 minutes. Now at 7 months he falls asleep easily on his own (at around 8pm, after a consistent bedtime routine), only wakes once or twice to eat at night, and has two pretty consistent 1 to 2 hour naps (and sometimes a third) every day. (Note that using this method does not mean that you let them cry every time they wake up--I still feed him at night, because I think his night wakings now are clearly from hunger, or getting cold, or another problem and not due to habit as they were before.) I'm only telling this story because I think the method is getting a bit of a bad rap here, and I want other people to know that it did work great for us. I don't think this really applies to Sydney.

But Traci, I DO NOT think that you should do it. I agree with others-I've been following your posts and I think Sydney needs a fuller medical workup. It sounds like it may be reflux, or something else--I think this may be more than just fussiness. Also, she needs to be older, or at least show some capacity to self-soothe before Ferber will work. It will just end up stressing you both out.

My pediatrician did also recommend the Ferber method--but all of her other advice has been very up to date, and I didn't do it just because she said so, but because I read up on the various options and decided this was the best one for us to try.

[christic]

Traci,

I haven't been following all of your posts completely so I'm sorry if I'm saying something you've already heard but...

While I agree with everyone that following Ferber at this point is not a great idea, I just get the feeling that you're desperate to try something new. That just continuing as you have been will be just as hard on you both as the Ferber would.

So, I read in one of your posts that you liked the Baby Whisperer and I just wanted to suggest trying something from her book that really helped me. I know it might sound silly but have you tried keeping the journal entries for your daughter's days--tracking her feedings (when, how long, etc), her sleep (where, how long it took her to settle, etc.), and other activities (diaper changes, time in the swing, etc). First I think it will help you to have something concrete to do--even if it's not Ferber, and second I think you might really start to see some interesting patterns. Eventually this will give you some excellent information to go over with your pediatrician--if say you discover she can seldom fall asleep laying flat or right after eating. And I think it will also help you be consistent since you'll have a record of what worked and didn't work.

We had sort of a bad start to bf'ing, and keeping the journal was what got us back on track. It also helped immensely figuring out what my daughter's natural schedule was so that I could use that info to plan are days better. And you'll have written proof to show those ILs that your daughter needs to be home and in bed by X o'clock! :)

Good luck!

[Vajrastorm]

I had fairly bad reflux while pregnant. I, as a grown woman, was frequently in tears because of it. Reflux is painful, and it is frustrating to live in pain. How much harder for a helpless baby?

[lynettefrancois]

>she does have reflux we think, well now i'm not starting
>tonight since my husband will be home late, kind of relieved
>!


Traci! I'm having the same sleep issues and my baby has reflux too. We have also had thrush for 2 months and finally saw a NEW pediatrician today. What a difference! Please try a new ped... it won't hurt, right? I would make darn sure she's not sick (I made this mistake last week- let her CIO twice then discovered the stuffy nose). Her sleep problems started when she got a virus a few weeks ago, but she's been sleeping a little better since we started the Routine (bath at about 6, eating about 6:30, playing for about 10 minutes, then rocking for a few minutes with paci, put in crib half-asleep). Also, I stopped at the bookstore and read that babies with reflux have a harder time self soothing, so it may just simply take our babies longer to learn. I had it while pregnant and it's nearly IMPOSSIBLE to fall asleep- it really hurts! I've decided to go the gradual route for sleep training (it's described in the Weissbluth book, and several others), and I would rather get (make) DH to help soothe her at night so I'm not exhausted, than take a chance that she's sick or in pain and us not helping. She's probably going to start teething soon too (she's drooling a LOT more lately), so I took that into consideration. I bought 2 more sleep books and decided that I would combine info from all 3 that I have to decide on our specific plan. And, it gives me backup to show DH that he needs to help at night so I can get at least one stretch of 5 hours of sleep. HTH! Email me directly if you want to talk!

[marinkitty]

Traci:

I've been reading your posts over the past few weeks and have not posted back till now, mainly because I think you have been given excellent advice by other posters and did not feel I had much to add.

But I will chime in now to say that my DD had very severe reflux starting at 3 months (likely earlier but it was what they call "silent" reflux because she rarely threw up) through about 6 months (when we finally got the Zantac dosage correct) and she also turned out to have a milk protein sensitivity to the dairy products in my breastmilk that was making her tummy hurt even more (and increasing the reflux). Just some background.

Both my pediatrician and the GI specialist we saw expressly told me that we were NOT to leave her to cry under ANY circumstance (recognizaing of course that sometimes babies cry despite all your efforts to soothe them) until the reflux situation was under control. Not only will it increase the pain, it will increase the number times the stomach acid refluxes which can cause significant damage. Finally, it is very likely that she will throw up from the repeated refluxing caused by prolonged crying, and she certainly will not fall asleep laying in vomit.

We did end up using a combination of the Weissbluth/Ferber method when DD was about 7 months old - after the dairy and reflux issues were under control, after she'd started to show some ability to self soothe, and after we had followed a very consistent schedule (which included a 6 pm bedtime that worked wonders on her overall sleep habits and continues now even at one year old). So I'm not at all saying it is never appropriate - but as all the others have stated I do not think it is appropriate for your DD at this time.

In addition to seeing a different pediatrician (because I do believe his advice is inconsistent with a reflux diagnosis and her age), please consider going to a GI specialist. A GI specialist will have other medications and other ideas that will help your DD if the Zantac is not doing the trick.

Good luck and hang in there. I know it is draining and tough, especially if you are not getting much support from your family, but you will have to address these things one at a time before she can sleep through the night and you can both be happier.

Edited to fix typo.

Holly
Mom to Mia (3.17.03)

[jerseygirl07067]

I have no experience with the Ferber method but think the other posters have given really good advice. I just wanted to add, that whatever you decide to do, you can't just expect Sydney to go to sleep at 7 or 8 if she is used to going to bed later. You probably will have to GRADUALLY move her bedtime earlier each nite, by 15-30 minutes or so. And definitely give the routine a longer time, at least a few more weeks, to see if it works. The routine helps to create a relaxing and comforting sleep association.

Marcy

[lizajane]

i used CIO and thought i NEVER would. so i am not going to comment on it here because i didn't have a reflux baby and i did have a consistant routine and early bedtime. so our situations are just too different.

but i would BEG you to read weisbluth's healthy sleep habits happy child. ignore the sleep training part for now. just read it for the facts.

then read hogg's secrets of the baby whisperer AND pantley's no cry sleep solution.

then you will have all the information of several different methods. then you WILL HAVE A CHOICE.

[leanng]

My son had bad acid reflux and we didn't get his stomach problems fixed until he was 7 1/2 months old. Until then, he was still waking up every hour and a half to bf. I initially rejected the Ferber approach as cruel but then, after nothing else worked, I actually read the book and very much changed my mind. Any and all concerns I had were dealt with and explained in the book so I definitely suggest reading it. For my son, once his reflux issues were dealt with, I had to work on his habit of night nursing. He was only sucking for a minute or two (which he used to do to bring down the acid levels) so we knew it was not necessity but habit. Ferber recommends gradually decreasing the amount of time (or amount of liquid if by bottle) gradually. We had a few nights of multiple hour crying but I knew that my son (and mommy too) NEEDED and deserved sleep!!! After a night and a half or crying, we both slept well. He still has an occasional night where he wakes up and just needs comforted or a drink which is alright but overall, we have helped him learn to self-soothe. My favorite Ferber comparison is a child being rocked to sleep or falling asleep on the breast to that of an adult who needs their pillow. When you wake up and it's not there any longer (and we all do wake up multiple times during the night), we are upset. Of course, the idea of self-soothing is exactly why Ferber isn't recommended until the child is old enough to 'learn' that mommy/daddy still love them and will take care of their needs but that they have to sleep. Read the book...there's a reason he works.

Good luck in whatever you choose to do.
LeAnn
Mom to Alex 11/12/02

[alexandria1981]

Hi, I'm new to the message boards but I just wanted to pass on some info from my PED about reflux. My DD was having lots of gas pain, waking up screaming at night etc. Also lots of morning congestion. PED recommended that I cut out all dairy and have DD sleep on incline. After 4 days, it worked like a charm...sleeping longer stretches at night,no congestion and waking up happy. I made a nest on the floor of our room (because we had been doing co-sleeping) with a large comforter folded up, a boppy and a blanket tucked around the whole thing so there was nothing she could get caught in. 3 months later she still sleeps in her "nest" for most of the night. I didn't read if you BF or not but my PED said that reflux with a BF baby was not dangerous and didn't need any med. unless the incline/diet change didn't help at all. I hope this helps!