when do they typically self-wean?

[sntm]

Then let's discuss this based on the facts and not discourage discussion because people are upset because it reminds them that they had a negative experience.

I believe there is one truth out there, we just don't (and sometimes can't ever) have enough information to know what it is all of the time. That's why we discuss it and examine the merits of each point.

In regards to your example, I would still guess that there was a contributing factor. Your friend who was an LC was presumably working outside the home, giving bottles? In her situation that may have been a contributing factor. Others may have been more subtle. Some breastfeeding relationships are more tenuous than others and cannot take what would otherwise be a mild hit.

And just because she was unable to get her babies to continue breastfeeding despite using all the tricks/techniques that she knows, does not mean that there was not a problem. Some problems can't be overcome despite using all of our knowledge currently. But to extend my analogy from above, just because I do everything right for my patient, all the right fluids/meds/surgical interventions, and he still dies, that doesn't all of a sudden mean he died of natural causes.
~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~
shannon
not-even-pregnant-yet-overachiever
trying-to-conceive :)
PREGNANT! EDD 6/9/03
mama to Jack 6/6/03
http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbons/ribbon_gold_12m.gif[/img][/url]
Breastfeeding 14 months and counting

[Rachels]

This discussion is so aggravating. The OP asked for help because she wants to keep nursing. Any breastfeeding mom should support that, no matter what her particular exerience was. It's a tremendous disservice to a nursing mom to argue thirty years of scrupulous research AND the mom's own wishes because your particular child did something different.

Certainly there will be babies who strike before the age of one. Rarely, a striking baby will not be able to be coaxed back to the breast, but it's certainly important to try, and it usually works. On the occasion that it doesn't, breastpumps and formula give us a way to keep these babies alive. For most of human history, they simply would have died. Striking and weaning because of a developmental readiness to discontinue the consumption of breastmilk are not the same thing.

Research doesn't tell us what every single baby in all of history does-- it tells us what most babies do, and what is healthiest, and it illustrates what we should shoot for. There will always be people who have a different experience, but arguing that one's different experience translates to the research being all wrong is narcissistic and silly. The fact is that babies Kathryn's age still need breastmilk. It's worth the OP knowing that so that she can try to find a way to continue to provide it. But Shannon, it's so hard to argue with defenses. The facts speak for themselves, if people care to learn them, and if they don't, that's not a reflection on the facts. You've described the available information eloquently and accurately. Hang in there, hon.

-Rachel
Mom to Abigail Rose
5/18/02

http://www.planetsmilies.com/smilies...haracter39.gif

"When you know better, you do better."
Maya Angelou

http://www.gynosaur.com/assets/ribbo...pphire_24m.gif Two years and counting!

[Momof3Labs]

No, she was not working outside of the home, and no, she was not giving bottles.

[lizajane]

"But if you are willing to let your regret over your own experiences discourage people from telling the truth with the sole purpose of trying to help others NOT have to suffer your experiences, well then that's very different and that bothers me a great deal."

i don't disagree with you, shannon. i just think that there are different ways of relaying information in order to best convey the message and drive it home. if someone says, "my baby seems to be self-weaning at 9 months and i am heartbroken and terrified and desperately want to continue breastfeeding." telling her that "self weaning at 9 months is a myth, you are probably just doing something that makes her reject your breast" will only instill more fear and guilt. whereas, "it is unusual for babies to self wean at this age, but if you are concerned that your child is going that direction, your lactation consultant can give you a number of ways to maintain yoru nursing relationship for as long as you both desire it to continue."

in the same way that you hear doctors say, "people who are overweight and live a sedentary lifestyle put themselves at a higher risk for major health concerns, like diabetes and heart disease, which can lead to premature death." instead of, "lazy fat people make themselves sick and then die early." the second statement, would IMO, make an saddened overweight person pi**ed off and insulted, whereas the first might start a conversation about concerns. that's MY opinion, at least. because i would certainly be more responsive to the first statement because i wouldn't feel attacked or accused.

see what i mean? i know that the truth is important and that the truth is the truth and shouldn't be hidden because of fear. but i also think feelings are VERY important to consider, especially when it comes to something as challenging, personal and "guilt inducing" as breastfeeding.

[newmommy0403]

Karra, I just wanted to let you know that I really admire how hard you worked to try to breastfeed your daughter.

I just had a conversation w/ some people at my work on the elevator. One of them asked me what my breastpump was, which began a conversation. One of them said "I quit BF after 3 days. It took so LONG for my daughter to nurse in the middle of the night and bottles are so much easier." Of course they all think I'm insane for pumping or even breastfeeding at all.

In the grand scheme of things, most people don't give breastfeeding 1/100th of the effort that everyone who has responded to this post has. The purpose of this board is to support each other, and it seems like "being right" has overshadowed trying to support a mother who needs it.

[Piglet]

ITA Liza - thank you thank you thank you for saying this so eloquently!

[christic]

If we're discussing facts, I think that the assumption that a 9 month old baby who refused the breast would have necessarily died in the days before formula is inaccurate. In the 1960s it was common for most formula fed babies to make the switch to cow's milk around 6 mos. My mom kept the doctor's notes from when I was a baby and they started weaning me onto a diet of whole milk, cereal, fruit, vegetables, and meat at 17 weeks! It's appalling really, but according to the very mainstream baby care book she used (which also recommends bf as the best option) it was the normal pattern followed for FF babies.

Now I'm certainly not advocating this feeding option and not posting just to be difficult :) either. I just think that in a discussion about when natural weaning might occur that the mere ability to survive on something other than breastmilk is not the best guideline. Certainly the farther you go back in history the more hazardous the early end to bf would have been. But because most 9 month olds are able to eat from spoons, drink from cups with assistance, and even begin to self-feed that weaning at that age would not have automatically meant death.

I've often wondered where the widely accepted 12 month mark for weaning from formula or breastmilk to cow's milk came from, and I'm sure there's research supporting that age over the 6 month guidelines popular 40 years ago. I can't help thinking about all the extra $ the formula companies have made since those guidelines have changed though!

[mom to little e]

>
>>your last paragraph was so well said... nursing (esp. in
>>public) is such a lonely experience...
>
>I think it can be, but it doesn't have to be. It certainly
>wasn't a lonely experience for me, either in the the actual
>act or in the support of it by family and friends.
>

It is so sad that people have to feel that way. This is a little OT at first, but I'll get to my point in a second! I have had such a turn-around regarding BF'ing. To be quite honest, before DS came along, I was NOT intersted in BF at all!! I decided to give it a try since it was best for him but only expected to make it to six weeks. I was ELATED when DS latched on after a tramuatic (19 hr) labor and then unplanned c-section deliver. I thought "WE DID IT!," "We are going to be so awesome together!" Then all the trials and tribulations of low supply, slow let-down, 3-month growth spurts, no BFing support from other new-mom friends, even DH saying, "why don't you just quit?", we are still nursing at 10 months with no plans to quit!!!! :) I hope we can make it until the 18 month mark!

Anyway, to your point about nursing being lonely... it can be especially with little support, or as you said, in public. It is really weird (to me) that the best thing for our babies is not commonly accepted. I think I took a different stance re: public nursing, somewhat defiant, like "hey, this is best for my baby and if you don't like it, don't look!!" I know that this "attitude" for me personally came from my original feelings regarding the subject. As is evident from this thread, the issue of BFing is very personal and very emotional. I appreciate the thoughtful and sensitive discussion and support (of all sides).

Best to all!

Casey &
Ean (11/06/03) the little love of my life
Just about ready to hit the 10-month mark of nursing!!